Re: Immune Question

[Guest guest]

Hi Jody,

The immune system doesn't fully develop in children until about age 2.

However, before that time there is some antibody production.

For example, in Blood Bank, when we type blood, newborn babies do not yet

have natural occurring antibodies. (Type A has antibodies to B, Type B has

antibodies to A, and type O has both A and B antibodies, whereas type AB has

no blood group alloantibodies). These antibodies show up by age 2 and often

we see them after about 6 months.

[Guest guest]

Jody,

I meant to congratulate you and forgot to. Welcome to Baby and best

wishes, elaine

[Guest guest]

Thank you Elaine for the congratulations on our new baby He is precious.

And thank you for the info on immune systems. What you have told me about

the system not being fully developed until about age 2 confirms info I have

been reading. We are going to go ahead and fight the local 'powers that be'

and not allow to begin immuniztions until age 2. There is just to much

evidence about what can happen and much evidence, especially from Dr.

Wakefield shows that there is a greater chance of autoimmune disease because

of what is currently in the standard childrens immuniztions.

This is really frightening, especially when reading on other GD boards all

of the newly diagnosed CHILDREN with GD.

Thanks again

Jody

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[Guest guest]

Jody,

In a Reuters article I have titled " FDA says there is no link between most

vaccines, autoimmune diseases, " the author goes on to say this is the case in

most, not all, vaccines. The article quotes Dr. Fred (speaking at the

Third Annual Conference on Vaccine Research in Washington D.C.) as saying,

" Some autoimmune diseases may be linked to vaccines.: As examples, he cited

the link between arthritis and many vaccines, including the MMR vaccine, as

well as the link between Guillan-Barre Syndrome and certain vaccines. "

www.medscape.com/reuters/prof/2000/05.04/2000504sscie004.html

also www.medscape.com/IMNG/PediatricNews/2000/v34.n05/ped3405.08.01.html

I also have some studies linking autoimmune diseases to autism

www.mescape.com/MedscapeWire/1998/10.98/medwure1030.autism.html

I'm currently researching a book on environmental causes of autoimmune

disease and I'm running across many links to vaccines. Vaccines of course

aren't responsible for all instances of autoimmunity, but they do play a

role.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Jody I will send you some some literature for your friend. He should

be taking 1200 mg of Vit E daily for starters. Good luck keeping the new

grandchild away from the needle. It will not be an easy job.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the literature , and for the info to my friend with

diabetes, I shall be seeing them tomorrow and make sure he knows.

As for keeping him away from the immunizations...there is an excellant

organization out of Buffalo who works all over western NY to accomplish this

and they now have peditricians who are willing to hold off immunizations

until age 2 at the earliest...we just may have to drive a bit for them but

that is okay.

Better safe than sorry and I sure don't want to see my grandsons end up with

an array of autoimmune diseases down the road.

Jody

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[Guest guest]

Thank you for the sites Elaine. I am just learning about this now, well for

the last two months. To me it makes perfect sense that to inject a new baby

or one of 2/4/6 months old with a live virus when they don't have much of an

immune system is asking for trouble, especially when the drug companies

(with FDA blessing) is using Mercury, Formaldahyde, aluminium and tin as

binding agents in them.

I have read a couple of articles on Medscape and will be reading much more

once son leaves for college in a month. This whole thing is just very

disconcerting.

Have you been on the Royal (can't remember full name but it is a hospital

in England)site to read any of Dr. Wakefields papers regarding

immunizations and autoimmune disease?

Jody

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[Guest guest]

Hi Jody,

I'm not familiar with Dr. Wakefield, but I haven't gotten into the

immunization research yet. These were just some things I found along the way.

I'll be sure to look him and Royal Hospital up. Thanks for the tip. Elaine

[Guest guest]

Given your family history of autoimmunity, it makes sense to hold off. At

least hold off, giving measles, mumps and rubella as a combination shot. I've

read something recently about researchers questioning the logic of a combined

vaccine, other than the convenience factor. In some cases, like remote rural

villages, this might make sense, but in our doc in a box society, it makes

sense to exercise caution. What a thoughtful grandmother you are. E

[Guest guest]

,

You are right about Vets being ahead of the game...somewhere in my bookmarks

I have a site that is geared for our pets regarding combination vaccines, if

you want the URL I will find it and send it to you.

I recently read that in Canada they are lightening up on the

multi-immunizations, I have been reading so much on this lately but I have

saved all bookmarks. Your right it is going to be a fight but since my

daughter is willing to drive a bit for a new pediatrician that will work

with us on the immunizations we are set to do battle IF the need should

arrive.

Jody

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[Guest guest]

This might sound crazy but sometimes vets are ahead of the medical pack.

I have a cat who had a very bad reaction to a combo shot. The vet

suggested that he not have the combos and that is what we have been

following for years. I have a neice who had a terrible reaction to her

first whooping cough shot. Of course we weren't about to give her or her

sisters any more. It was not an easy fight and yet that vaccine has

caused plenty of problems. And don't forget the anthrax scandal.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

That doesn't sound crazy at all. I can't remember if I ever mentioned it here

before but a vet figured out what was

wrong with me when I was sick with Graves' before a doctor ever did (I think

doctors get too caught up in the

psychosomatic thing). I was working for the vet at the time.

After our dogs are 5 or 6 we stop vaccinating them every year (except the rabies

booster). Many vets don't agree

with yearly vaccinations anymore.

Take care,

Hearn wrote:

> This might sound crazy but sometimes vets are ahead of the medical pack.

> I have a cat who had a very bad reaction to a combo shot. The vet

> suggested that he not have the combos and that is what we have been

> following for years. I have a neice who had a terrible reaction to her

> first whooping cough shot. Of course we weren't about to give her or her

> sisters any more. It was not an easy fight and yet that vaccine has

> caused plenty of problems. And don't forget the anthrax scandal.

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I've decided not to ever have another tetenus shot again...not before I get

the lot number, manufacuriner and what the binding agent in it is. I would

rather take my chances naturally.

The more I read about this, the angrier I get. For me, I can not say it was

from immunization shots that I have an autoimmune disease because in my day,

when anyone got one of the childhood diseases our mom would send us over to

play with them...I've had them all. But I do believe they were giving the

DPT shot then and the polio vaccines. BTW, in the states they are no longer

suppose to be giving the oral polio vaccine, only the injection, it too has

been pulled.

Jody

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[Guest guest]

That's what we do with our cats. As for the rabies, it is a live vaccine

and will last for the life of the animal. However, in most areas they

require a yearly booster and that is understandable given the nature of

the disease. Does anyone remember the old tetinus

shots. They used to given them at the drop of a hat and now they say

only once every ten years.

[Guest guest]

I was going to mention in the last email that vets don't have long

converstations with their patients about how they feel or what the

animals relatives had. They know what kind of problems different breeds

have and they look at the symptoms of the animal treat it the best way.

Most importantly they make no moral judgements about the animal's

character and its role in the problem. Of course the neutering and

spaying is an important

part of their business.hee hee (a little joke)

[Guest guest]

It's not unusual for congestion to only show up in one eye, although if

symptoms progress, usually both eyes are affected. Current info shows that

with sensitive tests, not just the Hertel measurement, but using imaging

tests, more than 90% of Graves' patients will show evidence of exophthalmos.

I only had the simple tests so was never diagnosed with TED, but off and on,

both before and after my diagnosis, I've had days when my eyes look swollen.

It's important that you work at keeping your thyroid function normal. You're

more likely to notice symptoms when your're hypo or hyperT. And anything you

can do to keep your immune system mellow will help. Like me and my gluten

thing. I haven't had any eye puffiness in a while. E

[Guest guest]

>That doesn't sound crazy at all. I can't remember if I ever mentioned it

here before but a vet figured out what was wrong with me when I was sick

with Graves' before a doctor ever did (I think doctors get too caught up in

the psychosomatic thing). I was working for the vet at the time.

Hm! Interesting! It was my chiropractor, who diagnosed my Graves. I was

blaming him for not being able to swallow (goiter was up at that time), and

he asked what other symptoms I had...and he said I should go see my GP right

away. Boy, was he right.

I went to the optometrist for new glasses yesterday, and told him I had

Graves (didn't have it, last time I saw him) and mentioned my right eye'd

been bothering me. He did an extensive exam (gosh it was brutal) and

determined that the tissue behind the eye is a bit swollen!! Augh!!!

Just one eye? Is that common? He thinks it might be normal, for me, or

from rubbing (I rub my eyes a lot). But still, I'm all freaked out now.

Must go back to the opthamologist to get measured. I'm thinking of trying a

different one, coz if they didn't see anything wrong the first two times,

perhaps they don't know what they're looking for!

Anyone hear of TED only showing up in one eye...and this late in the game?

I've had Graves for almost a year now, and have been doing great on PTU for

seven or eight months. And except for the occassional crying jag, I feel

fine (maybe a bit achey....)! Any opinions?

Kari

[Guest guest]

Kari,

My left eye was always more pronounced with swelling than my right.

Radiation helped a lot (I had entered double vision problems), but I think

the left still lags slightly and that it still appears larger and slightly

more swollen (to me). It is subjective now, since my ophthalmologist is

comfortable with what he sees and released me for a year unless I personally

experience additional problems.

So, my subjective feelings would be that one eye showing more problems than

the other eye may not be unusual.

Elaine

(Virginia)

RE: Immune Question

> >That doesn't sound crazy at all. I can't remember if I ever mentioned it

> here before but a vet figured out what was wrong with me when I was sick

> with Graves' before a doctor ever did (I think doctors get too caught up

in

> the psychosomatic thing). I was working for the vet at the time.

>

> Hm! Interesting! It was my chiropractor, who diagnosed my Graves. I was

> blaming him for not being able to swallow (goiter was up at that time),

and

> he asked what other symptoms I had...and he said I should go see my GP

right

> away. Boy, was he right.

>

> I went to the optometrist for new glasses yesterday, and told him I had

> Graves (didn't have it, last time I saw him) and mentioned my right eye'd

> been bothering me. He did an extensive exam (gosh it was brutal) and

> determined that the tissue behind the eye is a bit swollen!! Augh!!!

>

> Just one eye? Is that common? He thinks it might be normal, for me, or

> from rubbing (I rub my eyes a lot). But still, I'm all freaked out now.

> Must go back to the opthamologist to get measured. I'm thinking of trying

a

> different one, coz if they didn't see anything wrong the first two times,

> perhaps they don't know what they're looking for!

>

> Anyone hear of TED only showing up in one eye...and this late in the game?

> I've had Graves for almost a year now, and have been doing great on PTU

for

> seven or eight months. And except for the occassional crying jag, I feel

> fine (maybe a bit achey....)! Any opinions?

>

> Kari

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Elaine. You had radiation? Was it ok? I mean, this might not even

be anything, but I want to know all my options before I go in and see my

doctor again with this. Shouldn't the bloody PTU be curing this? I mean,

stopping all the side effects. It just seems so long on the meds, for

anything more to be turning up now.

Kari

Re: Immune Question

Kari,

My left eye was always more pronounced with swelling than my right.

Radiation helped a lot (I had entered double vision problems), but I think

the left still lags slightly and that it still appears larger and slightly

more swollen (to me). It is subjective now, since my ophthalmologist is

comfortable with what he sees and released me for a year unless I personally

experience additional problems.

So, my subjective feelings would be that one eye showing more problems than

the other eye may not be unusual.

Elaine

(Virginia)

RE: Immune Question

> >That doesn't sound crazy at all. I can't remember if I ever mentioned it

> here before but a vet figured out what was wrong with me when I was sick

> with Graves' before a doctor ever did (I think doctors get too caught up

in

> the psychosomatic thing). I was working for the vet at the time.

>

> Hm! Interesting! It was my chiropractor, who diagnosed my Graves. I was

> blaming him for not being able to swallow (goiter was up at that time),

and

> he asked what other symptoms I had...and he said I should go see my GP

right

> away. Boy, was he right.

>

> I went to the optometrist for new glasses yesterday, and told him I had

> Graves (didn't have it, last time I saw him) and mentioned my right eye'd

> been bothering me. He did an extensive exam (gosh it was brutal) and

> determined that the tissue behind the eye is a bit swollen!! Augh!!!

>

> Just one eye? Is that common? He thinks it might be normal, for me, or

> from rubbing (I rub my eyes a lot). But still, I'm all freaked out now.

> Must go back to the opthamologist to get measured. I'm thinking of trying

a

> different one, coz if they didn't see anything wrong the first two times,

> perhaps they don't know what they're looking for!

>

> Anyone hear of TED only showing up in one eye...and this late in the game?

> I've had Graves for almost a year now, and have been doing great on PTU

for

> seven or eight months. And except for the occassional crying jag, I feel

> fine (maybe a bit achey....)! Any opinions?

>

> Kari

>

-------------------------------------

The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

----------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Kari,

I hope someone can tell us more here, but I have the impression that TED may

not be unusual after PTU. I am in my second bout, the first occurred in '91

and I used PTU then. I had no eye problems at that time. My eyes caught my

attention in '98 and I started having other hyper-symptoms and discovered I

was in a second bout with Graves. This time the TED was part and parcel of

the reoccurrence. I understand some people have eye problems years after

going into remission and years after RAI, especially if they used PTU prior

to RAI. The eye disease runs its own course. I also thought I saw a

discussion suggesting that those on PTU may experience later eye problems.

I am hoping someone has a website or citation for us on that.

Radiation directly to the eyes was not a problem. It was done as an

outpatient over a two week period in a hospital oncology unit. Painless,

worse part was a sense of claustrophobia since a face mask was made and

literally restrained my head to a table for isolating and aiming the

radiation. It was successful in curing my double vision. For that I am

exceedingly grateful. Swelling was markedly reduced. I understand I may be

at increased risk for cataracts (within about ten years of radiation

therapy) but have taken the view that they are probably something most

people face with age anyway. I didn't have much choice <smile>.

Elaine

(Virginia)

RE: Immune Question

> Thanks Elaine. You had radiation? Was it ok? I mean, this might not

even

> be anything, but I want to know all my options before I go in and see my

> doctor again with this. Shouldn't the bloody PTU be curing this? I mean,

> stopping all the side effects. It just seems so long on the meds, for

> anything more to be turning up now.

>

> Kari

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kari

I was on PTU for 2-1/2 years before my thyroid started functioning

normally and I stopped taking the drug. BUT for the first 2 years, I

continued to have thyroid symptoms: heart palpitations and tingling in my

arms and legs (peripheral neuropathy). Other than that, I was doing just

fine.

Since you have been on PTU less than a year, I would give it more of a

chance (if you can tolerate your symptoms), and hope for a remission.

Concerning Graves eye disease: When I told my opthomologist that I was

diagnosed with Graves, he didn't make a big deal out of it. Not everyone

with Graves gets eye disease-- I am pretty sure less than half of Graves

patients do have problems (I never have).

So you might want to get a second opinion before taking any meds to reduce

the swelling that your eye specialist found.

Just my thoughts

Barb

(in remission since January)

> Thanks Elaine. You had radiation? Was it ok? I mean, this might not even

> be anything, but I want to know all my options before I go in and see my

> doctor again with this. Shouldn't the bloody PTU be curing this? I mean,

> stopping all the side effects. It just seems so long on the meds, for

> anything more to be turning up now.

>

> Kari

>

> Re: Immune Question

>

>

> Kari,

>

> My left eye was always more pronounced with swelling than my right.

> Radiation helped a lot (I had entered double vision problems), but I think

> the left still lags slightly and that it still appears larger and slightly

> more swollen (to me). It is subjective now, since my ophthalmologist is

> comfortable with what he sees and released me for a year unless I personally

> experience additional problems.

>

> So, my subjective feelings would be that one eye showing more problems than

> the other eye may not be unusual.

>

> Elaine

> (Virginia)

>

> RE: Immune Question

>

>

> > >That doesn't sound crazy at all. I can't remember if I ever mentioned it

> > here before but a vet figured out what was wrong with me when I was sick

> > with Graves' before a doctor ever did (I think doctors get too caught up

> in

> > the psychosomatic thing). I was working for the vet at the time.

> >

> > Hm! Interesting! It was my chiropractor, who diagnosed my Graves. I was

> > blaming him for not being able to swallow (goiter was up at that time),

> and

> > he asked what other symptoms I had...and he said I should go see my GP

> right

> > away. Boy, was he right.

> >

> > I went to the optometrist for new glasses yesterday, and told him I had

> > Graves (didn't have it, last time I saw him) and mentioned my right eye'd

> > been bothering me. He did an extensive exam (gosh it was brutal) and

> > determined that the tissue behind the eye is a bit swollen!! Augh!!!

> >

> > Just one eye? Is that common? He thinks it might be normal, for me, or

> > from rubbing (I rub my eyes a lot). But still, I'm all freaked out now.

> > Must go back to the opthamologist to get measured. I'm thinking of trying

> a

> > different one, coz if they didn't see anything wrong the first two times,

> > perhaps they don't know what they're looking for!

> >

> > Anyone hear of TED only showing up in one eye...and this late in the game?

> > I've had Graves for almost a year now, and have been doing great on PTU

> for

> > seven or eight months. And except for the occassional crying jag, I feel

> > fine (maybe a bit achey....)! Any opinions?

> >

> > Kari

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, methimazole (Tapazole) has a protective effect agains TED so it's

commonly used in patients suspected of having eye symptoms. From what you've

said, though, your symptoms sound mild and variable, so a switch probably

isn't warranted if you've been doing well.

[Guest guest]

My endo told me that people on PTU who later elect RAI have more of a

chance of developing TED than those on Tapazole.

At 01:22 PM 08/02/2000 -0400, you wrote:

>Kari,

>

>I hope someone can tell us more here, but I have the impression that TED may

>not be unusual after PTU. I am in my second bout, the first occurred in '91

>and I used PTU then. I had no eye problems at that time. My eyes caught my

>attention in '98 and I started having other hyper-symptoms and discovered I

>was in a second bout with Graves. This time the TED was part and parcel of

>the reoccurrence. I understand some people have eye problems years after

>going into remission and years after RAI, especially if they used PTU prior

>to RAI. The eye disease runs its own course. I also thought I saw a

>discussion suggesting that those on PTU may experience later eye problems.

>I am hoping someone has a website or citation for us on that.

>

>Radiation directly to the eyes was not a problem. It was done as an

>outpatient over a two week period in a hospital oncology unit. Painless,

>worse part was a sense of claustrophobia since a face mask was made and

>literally restrained my head to a table for isolating and aiming the

>radiation. It was successful in curing my double vision. For that I am

>exceedingly grateful. Swelling was markedly reduced. I understand I may be

>at increased risk for cataracts (within about ten years of radiation

>therapy) but have taken the view that they are probably something most

>people face with age anyway. I didn't have much choice <smile>.

>

>Elaine

>(Virginia)

>

>

> RE: Immune Question

>

>

>> Thanks Elaine. You had radiation? Was it ok? I mean, this might not

>even

>> be anything, but I want to know all my options before I go in and see my

>> doctor again with this. Shouldn't the bloody PTU be curing this? I mean,

>> stopping all the side effects. It just seems so long on the meds, for

>> anything more to be turning up now.

>>

>> Kari

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

>

>

Shen

Holy Macro!

[Guest guest]

Hm. I've not had RAI, though. Could PTU be causing it?? (Not that I have

TED....gosh it's a shame it's called that, as Ted's the name of my

ex-husband....) or is it caused by the Graves? Or...it's a symptom that may

occur *more* if you're on PTU, than if I was on Tapazol, I mean.

kari

Re: Immune Question

My endo told me that people on PTU who later elect RAI have more of a

chance of developing TED than those on Tapazole.

At 01:22 PM 08/02/2000 -0400, you wrote:

>Kari,

>

>I hope someone can tell us more here, but I have the impression that TED

may

>not be unusual after PTU. I am in my second bout, the first occurred in

'91

>and I used PTU then. I had no eye problems at that time. My eyes caught

my

>attention in '98 and I started having other hyper-symptoms and discovered I

>was in a second bout with Graves. This time the TED was part and parcel of

>the reoccurrence. I understand some people have eye problems years after

>going into remission and years after RAI, especially if they used PTU prior

>to RAI. The eye disease runs its own course. I also thought I saw a

>discussion suggesting that those on PTU may experience later eye problems.

>I am hoping someone has a website or citation for us on that.

>

>Radiation directly to the eyes was not a problem. It was done as an

>outpatient over a two week period in a hospital oncology unit. Painless,

>worse part was a sense of claustrophobia since a face mask was made and

>literally restrained my head to a table for isolating and aiming the

>radiation. It was successful in curing my double vision. For that I am

>exceedingly grateful. Swelling was markedly reduced. I understand I may

be

>at increased risk for cataracts (within about ten years of radiation

>therapy) but have taken the view that they are probably something most

>people face with age anyway. I didn't have much choice <smile>.

>

>Elaine

>(Virginia)

>

>

> RE: Immune Question

>

>

>> Thanks Elaine. You had radiation? Was it ok? I mean, this might not

>even

>> be anything, but I want to know all my options before I go in and see my

>> doctor again with this. Shouldn't the bloody PTU be curing this? I

mean,

>> stopping all the side effects. It just seems so long on the meds, for

>> anything more to be turning up now.

>>

>> Kari

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>-------------------------------------

>The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

>Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

>----------------------------------------

>

>

Shen

Holy Macro!

-------------------------------------

The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

----------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

You can have TED on its own. It runs separately from Graves. I did not

suffer from it during my 1991 Graves bout, not until the second bout in

1998. I have no reason to believe PTU causes TED. I thought it

unfortunately lent itself to TED if it was taken prior to RAI. I have not

undergone RAI and don't intend to.

The endo has a patient, currently 75 years old suffering from TED. She had

Graves when she was in her 40s. I did not ask if she had RAI or went into

remission 30-plus years ago. I just felt sorry for her when he mentioned

it. What bad luck!

Elaine

RE: Immune Question

> Hm. I've not had RAI, though. Could PTU be causing it?? (Not that I have

> TED....gosh it's a shame it's called that, as Ted's the name of my

> ex-husband....) or is it caused by the Graves? Or...it's a symptom that

may

> occur *more* if you're on PTU, than if I was on Tapazol, I mean.

>

> kari

>