Re: My Dad

January 16, 2002

Hey All:

There was some discussion among Dad's doctors that maybe they should try to radiate the spots on his liver. In theory, the radiation would help kill, or slow down the cancer. In reality, the radiation might help the cancer kill the liver.....

Today, Dad went to see his cancer doctor and was told that if Doctor gave Dad the amount of radiation needed to kill the cancer cells, it would make Dad miserable. Based upon what I have learned and read on this list, I had some real concerns about Dad receiving radiation treatments to his liver, so I am not sure that the no radiation news is really bad new. Doctor and Dad discussed " quality of life " .

The doctor suggested that Dad keep doing what he is doing, because Dad seems to be doing fairly well and feels good. After Dad was told that he was not a candidate for radiation, nor chemo, he began taking treatment to keep his PH level at a real high level. While visiting with doctor today, doctor showed him photos from his October CT scan compared to the CT scan that was done in December.... not good. Dad is scheduled to have another CT scan next week, and then meet with doctor to compare January CT scan to December's. Since October, Dad just hasn't been able to get a break.

My Father and Mother seem to be standing like a rock.... how they are able to do this, I'll never know. When Dad sees doctor again, he has plans to insist that the doctor give him some kind of estimate on how long.

I really don't have any questions, just needed to vent. Thank you for letting me vent on this wonderful list. Your prayers are appreciated.

Don

January 16, 2002

Hi Don,

Well I don't know....the things I have said here about radiation to

the liver apply specifically to (1) IMRT/Conformal Radiation (2) 3

fraction (HYPOfractionated) IMRT.

For this scenario it sounded POSSIBLE to have some severe side

effects....although it seemed somewhat rare in practice. I think you

said your dad has 9 tumors, I know that is harder to treat and the

likelihood of side effect increases with volume of liver radiated.

HOWEVER - where Cliff had his radiation done they use 33 fractions,

low dose each fraction and I'm sure they could adjust even lower yet,

and I believe he was indicating they would treat more tumors (like 8

or 9?) than where I go. HYPERfractionation is aparently associated

with " delayed side effects " (maybe a year or more?) whereas

HYPOfractionation is associated with " early side effects " (like 1-2

months). If you are interested in pursuing....it might still be

worthwhile to talk to a few places that do this - St s in NY

for example or other references here

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/suthercon/radiat.htm

> Today, Dad went to see his cancer doctor and was told that if

Doctor gave Dad the amount of radiation needed to kill the cancer

cells, it would make Dad miserable

Yes, but the real question is whether LOW DOSE radiation as I have

described could SLOW the growth without severe side effects - not the

same as " killing the cells " (completely stopping growth)! There's all

kinds of ways to do radiation - I don't know the answer! (And the

Theraspheres are still a possibility, they sounded fairly benign!)

>he began taking treatment to keep his PH level at a real high level

This is somewhat new to me - what is he taking to do this? Are there

any references on it you looked at before starting therapy?

Best Wishes,

January 16, 2002

Hey :

Thanks for the information. I'll review it and discuss it with my parents. I don't know the answers to most of your questions. I am getting my information about what doctors say second hand,,, at best. At this point, I am not sure that I am even getting all the information about how rapidity this cancer is spreading. In fact, I feel confident that I am not getting the total information as some of this information is lost in translation between doctors and my parents. In October, 9 of 17 lymphnodes removed were cancerous. Based upon my conversations with my Mother, the cancer has really spread big time since then. On the December CT Scan, there were 10 tumors in 10 different areas of the liver. The doctors have shown my parents photos of Dad's October CT Scan, compared to his December CT scan. Based upon what I have been told, there is a major difference between the two. Next week, has another CT scan to compare against his December scan.

I am just the eldest Son, trying to help my parent's get whatever help is available. Unfortunately, this task isn't as easy as it might seem.

Treatment to slow cancer down by keeping PH levels real high thru supplements, and diet really work?? I don't know. However, I was told that this doctor was real surprised to learn that Dad had gotten rid of the nasty staff infection that he had. Dad says he feels good, and his blood work etc. is apparently fairly normal. Dad has been to some of the best doctors in this area, and none have even provided the slightest hope. Doctors just talk about "quality of life". I look at Dad, I can see a sparkle back in his eye that I haven't seen in a while. Don't get me wrong, Dad is very sick and has medical problems besides the cancer.

Don

*********************************************************************************I can only speak for myself, as no one else will let me speak for them.

*********************************************************************************

Re: My Dad

Hi Don,Well I don't know....the things I have said here about radiation to the liver apply specifically to (1) IMRT/Conformal Radiation (2) 3 fraction (HYPOfractionated) IMRT. For this scenario it sounded POSSIBLE to have some severe side effects....although it seemed somewhat rare in practice. I think you said your dad has 9 tumors, I know that is harder to treat and the likelihood of side effect increases with volume of liver radiated. HOWEVER - where Cliff had his radiation done they use 33 fractions, low dose each fraction and I'm sure they could adjust even lower yet, and I believe he was indicating they would treat more tumors (like 8 or 9?) than where I go. HYPERfractionation is aparently associated with "delayed side effects" (maybe a year or more?) whereas HYPOfractionation is associated with "early side effects" (like 1-2 months). If you are interested in pursuing....it might still be worthwhile to talk to a few places that do this - St s in NY for example or other references here http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/suthercon/radiat.htm> Today, Dad went to see his cancer doctor and was told that if Doctor gave Dad the amount of radiation needed to kill the cancer cells, it would make Dad miserableYes, but the real question is whether LOW DOSE radiation as I have described could SLOW the growth without severe side effects - not the same as "killing the cells" (completely stopping growth)! There's all kinds of ways to do radiation - I don't know the answer! (And the Theraspheres are still a possibility, they sounded fairly benign!)>he began taking treatment to keep his PH level at a real high levelThis is somewhat new to me - what is he taking to do this? Are there any references on it you looked at before starting therapy?Best Wishes,

January 17, 2002

and all:

Please pardon me while I vent.

As I posted yesterday, my Dad had another visit with one of his doctors and they compared CT scans from October and December and discussed the rapid spread of his colon cancer into his liver and I assume other areas of his body. Anyway, yesterday was not a good day. In this phone conversation with my Mother, she stated that my Dad would like to travel to Texas to see family. Then she proceeds to tell me that they could make this trip in March or April. When I said something about cheap airfare and that they could be in Texas in 90 minutes, she says "oh we will probably just drive"........... I wanted to scream! This is a 900 + trip one way! My Mother doesn't drive, my Dad sure isn't in any physical condition to make this drive. Their car is a 1991 model, it only has about 60,000 miles on it, but it is still a 10, or 11 year old vehicle. If they were to have a flat tire, or any problems, my Dad physically can't do anything about it...... my Mother doesn't have a clue about car care....... yet none of this seems to be a concern.

We got talking about Dad's condition and I suggested that they not wait until March or April to make this trip... I asked what is wrong with next week??? .... doctors appointments. I said how about the week after that?... she is like what's the rush? .... I'm thinking you just came from a doctor who was showing you photos of how rapid this cancer is attacking Dad's liver and you ask "what's the rush"???

Please pray for me as I am just not ready to deal with these issues.

Don

********************************************************************************* I can only speak for myself, as no one else will let me speak for them.

*********************************************************************************

January 17, 2002

and all:

Please pardon me while I vent.

As I posted yesterday, my Dad had another visit with one of his doctors and they compared CT scans from October and December and discussed the rapid spread of his colon cancer into his liver and I assume other areas of his body. Anyway, yesterday was not a good day. In this phone conversation with my Mother, she stated that my Dad would like to travel to Texas to see family. Then she proceeds to tell me that they could make this trip in March or April. When I said something about cheap airfare and that they could be in Texas in 90 minutes, she says "oh we will probably just drive"........... I wanted to scream! This is a 900 + trip one way! My Mother doesn't drive, my Dad sure isn't in any physical condition to make this drive. Their car is a 1991 model, it only has about 60,000 miles on it, but it is still a 10, or 11 year old vehicle. If they were to have a flat tire, or any problems, my Dad physically can't do anything about it...... my Mother doesn't have a clue about car care....... yet none of this seems to be a concern.

We got talking about Dad's condition and I suggested that they not wait until March or April to make this trip... I asked what is wrong with next week??? .... doctors appointments. I said how about the week after that?... she is like what's the rush? .... I'm thinking you just came from a doctor who was showing you photos of how rapid this cancer is attacking Dad's liver and you ask "what's the rush"???

Please pray for me as I am just not ready to deal with these issues.

Don

********************************************************************************* I can only speak for myself, as no one else will let me speak for them.

*********************************************************************************

January 17, 2002

I hear you Don - not only do you have little input into your Dad's

medical decisions, but also little input into ANY decisions. I

understand what you're going thru, a few years ago my grandmother

couldn't hardly eat anything due to severe stomach pain, but refused

to go to the doctor. Didn't matter what any of us said, answer was

always " no! " . I'm not sure if she understood how close she was to

death or not....about 2 months after I visited her (even got in big

arguement about going in to the doctor) she died. Turned out she

didn't have cancer like she thought, but severe ulcers (probably from

a combination of too much aspirin and alcohol) which could have been

treated had she gone in. But what can you do?

You are in our thoughts and prayers Don. I wish you only the best as

always.

Sincerely,

>

> and all:

>

> Please pardon me while I vent.

>

> As I posted yesterday, my Dad had another visit with one of his

doctors and they compared CT scans from October and December and

discussed the rapid spread of his colon cancer into his liver and I

assume other areas of his body. Anyway, yesterday was not a good

day. In this phone conversation with my Mother, she stated that my

Dad would like to travel to Texas to see family. Then she proceeds

to tell me that they could make this trip in March or April. When I

said something about cheap airfare and that they could be in Texas in

90 minutes, she says " oh we will probably just drive " ........... I

wanted to scream! This is a 900 + trip one way! My Mother doesn't

drive, my Dad sure isn't in any physical condition to make this

drive. Their car is a 1991 model, it only has about 60,000 miles on

it, but it is still a 10, or 11 year old vehicle. If they were to

have a flat tire, or any problems, my Dad physically can't do

anything about it...... my Mother doesn't have a clue about car

care....... yet none of this seems to be a concern.

>

> We got talking about Dad's condition and I suggested that they not

wait until March or April to make this trip... I asked what is wrong

with next week??? .... doctors appointments. I said how about the

week after that?... she is like what's the rush? .... I'm thinking

you just came from a doctor who was showing you photos of how rapid

this cancer is attacking Dad's liver and you ask " what's the rush " ???

>

> Please pray for me as I am just not ready to deal with these

issues.

>

> Don

January 17, 2002