Re: REALLY long soapbox :-) Comments please! I got my labs back!

[Guest guest]

I was tested somewhere 1995-1997???? I do not know what tests were done. I

complained of symptoms of hypothy. They obliged and tested. I do not know what

the results were except, " normal " . I am thinking of making a trip to the docs to

get a copy of what was done back then. Would be interesting. I posted my TSH,

TT4 and T3uptake before....done this July.

Well, what happens and where I go is to be seen. I know that at this point both

Armour and HC have each made their beneficial changes in how I feel. I have

added DHEA, and later will switch to pregnenolone so my body has more choices. I

have started iron and continue to add pure salt daily to everything I eat. I am

really enjoying that! And I am avoiding the high potassium foods.

My own feeling about lab work is that it is only a guideline. If someone falls

within the " normal " ranges but feels lousy....and feels great on thyroid

supplements....I will not argue with supplementation. The gathering of values

from X number of people only tells you what those people were at. It does not

tell you where any one person should be...to feel great. One thing that was NOT

done that may have made the lab values more useful would have been noting the

ratios of T4, T3, and TSH to each other in each individual person. For example:

the estrogen dominance issue: you can be low in estrogen and still be estrogen

dominant where your progesterone is too low. Your values may even fall within

normal range and still you are off in ratio. They did not think to take the

values they received from the people regarding thyroid function and compare

relativity. Honestly, it was a sloppy study. I also do not have much faith in

tests that set a standard range of, say, 33-560. So, so what if you are within

the normal range? What does that mean for you? That range is too huge to speak

anything of the individual! It only means that you are the same as someone

else....so what....what does that mean for your own individual health?

Absolutely nothing. In fact, where my DHEA was lower than the " normal "

range...for all we know it is fine for me! Where I have symptoms that can be

explained by a low DHEA....THAT is where the values help.Help what? Help us to

say " aHA! " . Even if my DHEA were much higher....I absolutely KNOW I have burned

out adrenals. Why? Because I have symptoms that other people have had who have

been helped with hydrocortisone therapy....AND I am also being helped hugely by

hydrocortisone therapy. Do I need cortisol levels to know this? Absolutely not.

If I did the test I would only know where they are at that moment. I would not

know where I was when I felt great years ago. Even then, with age, these things

will change as our body changes its patterns of development and decline.

One of the tasks we veterinarians are dealing with right now with dogs' " normal "

blood values, is that those dogs that are fed raw foods have different " normal "

values than those that are fed processed foods. All the dog " normals " were

collected from lab dogs fed Purina or some such crap decades ago before anyone

realized that dogs cannot survive on indigestible protein and vegetable fiber.

Doctors have to start thinking for themselves. Have you ever really, really seen

a person who is truly 100% healthy? So, how could they have ever generated

" normal " values to use to say where we would be if we were 100% healthy? The

docs forget: first use your judgment, your intelligence and what you have been

taught about observation of disease states. Use deductive reasoning....THEN

order labs if you have questions or the need to support your decisions. But do

not base medical decisions on lab values alone. That is taking the intelligence

out of healing.

Off the soapbox! :-)

Roxanna

Roxanna V. Knight-Plouff, D.V.M.

W Plouff

North Star German Shepherd Dog Rescue Inc

northstargsdr@...

www.northstargsdr.org

Comments please! I got my labs back!

> I just got my labs back after taking Armour and hc for 3 weeks. The only

pre-Armour tests I have of any significance is TSH. My PCP only does TT4 and

T3 uptake with the TSH ( sigh )

>

> PreArmour TSH-1.5 ( different lab )

> 3 weeks into Armour ( at 1.25 gr ) TSH-0.62

>

> 3 weeks into Armour fT4-1.2 ( ref .8-1.8 )

>

> 3 weeks into Armour fT3-4.0 ( ref 2.3-4.2 )

>

> I am now needing 1.5 gr per day to feel great. The bloodwork is

interesting. TSH is already down quite a bit. It's too soon to say much

because I am only 3 weeks on Armour, but thought the TSH drop was

interesting.

>

>

> My adrenals are WORN OUT!!! Like we didn't already know that!!! LOL

>

> Besides that adding pure salt to my diet has decreased my water retention.

I am also LESS thirsty since adding the salt. My God, there were times in

the past where I could not go to bed because no matter how much I drank my

mouth was dry.

>

> DHEA-33 ( ref 35-430 ) POOR ADRENALS!!!

>

> Who has experience with supplementing DHEA? Hubby is picking some up on

the way home tonight! :-)

>

> Potassium- 5.1 ( ref 3.6-5.2 ) AHA! That potassium hoarding from weak

adrenals! I am not surprised.

>

> Good news is that I do not have any antithyroid antibodies! Hooray!!! I

celebrated with a huge piece of sea salt laden seaweed! YUM!

>

> Cholesterol was UP from 9 years ago. New cholesterol is 196! Speaks of

low thyroid!

>

> Ferritin-26 ( ref 10-291 ) What do you all think?

>

> More good news: BP sit/stand test today: sit 112/71 HR 74; stand 124/97

HR 78 !!!

>

> 2 weeks ago I could not get out of the low 100's on the systolic. Maybe I

can start decreasing my hc? I had just read a paper saying to not take hc

past 2 PM because of the natural cycles. I certainly have needed that every

4 hours no matter what time it has been! Now I am thinking about starting to

mimic natural cortisol levels better....see how I do.

>

> I have never had a cortisol saliva test. But, with feeling so great from

the HC I can only assume I NEED it. I think that once I can wean off it I

will do the test, see if things are fixed well enough

>

> I just read an article about if the adrenal gland cannot produce cortisol

in response to the high ACTH, then it aberrantly produces estrogen. That

creates an excess of estrogen that then binds thyroid hormone making it

unusable. Furthermore, if you do not have enough thyroid hormone then you

cannot use the cortisol you do have. GEEZ, talk about being stuck! The

answer appears to be....heal the adrenals.

>

>

> I am wondering if perhaps once my adrenal glands are healed, if they can

be, that perhaps I might not need Armour. Who knows? We'll see.

>

> PLEASE....COMMENTS about DHEA and Ferritin, or anything! :-)

> Thanks,

> Roxanna

[Guest guest]

Roxanna,

Speak on sister! Another thing I read is that when the " norms " were

established, they just took a sampling of people. They did not rule out

those with any hypo symptoms. Anyone with depression, dry skin, foggy

brain, etc should have been eliminated from the sample.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----

From: Roxanna V Knight-Plouff DVM

My own feeling about lab work is that it is only a guideline. If someone

falls within the " normal " ranges but feels lousy....and feels great on

thyroid supplements....I will not argue with supplementation. The

gathering of values from X number of people only tells you what those

people were at. It does not tell you where any one person should be...to

feel great. One thing that was NOT done that may have made the lab

values more useful would have been noting the ratios of T4, T3, and TSH

to each other in each individual person. For example: the estrogen

dominance issue: you can be low in estrogen and still be estrogen

dominant where your progesterone is too low. Your values may even fall

within normal range and still you are off in ratio. They did not think

to take the values they received from the people regarding thyroid

function and compare relativity. Honestly, it was a sloppy study. I also

do not have much faith in tests that set a standard range of, say,

33-560. So, so what if you are w

[Guest guest]

This was told to me on another group so I can not vouch for its veracity but I

dare say someone could research it if they really wanted to.

Anyway, this is what I was told: the so-called " normal " tsh was established by

testing 20 (YES, TWENTY) men (men are in the minority when it comes to thyroid

problems) all of them from the same geographical area of Scotland.

Clinical trials would not even be allowed on such a small sampling and yet docs

now, who probably don't even know how the tsh was established, can tell us that

our tsh level is " normal "

Lynda (in the UK)

RE: REALLY long soapbox :-) Comments please!

I got my labs back!

Roxanna,

Speak on sister! Another thing I read is that when the " norms " were

established, they just took a sampling of people. They did not rule out

those with any hypo symptoms. Anyone with depression, dry skin, foggy

brain, etc should have been eliminated from the sample.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was true.

I heard from an ol'time veterinary practitioner, who was there, how they came up

with what nutrients in dog food constitute " nutritionally balanced and

complete " . What a joke!

Roxanna

Roxanna V. Knight-Plouff, D.V.M.

W Plouff

North Star German Shepherd Dog Rescue Inc

northstargsdr@...

www.northstargsdr.org

RE: REALLY long soapbox :-) Comments

please! I got my labs back!

Roxanna,

Speak on sister! Another thing I read is that when the " norms " were

established, they just took a sampling of people. They did not rule out

those with any hypo symptoms. Anyone with depression, dry skin, foggy

brain, etc should have been eliminated from the sample.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

[Guest guest]

Doctors don't take into account the difference between normal and " optimal " I

told my husband that I wouldn't be surprised if all my hormones were at the

bottom of the normal range causing a cumulative effect!

in Va.

I was tested somewhere 1995-1997???? I do not know what tests were done. I

complained of symptoms of hypothy. They obliged and tested. I do not know what

the results were except, " normal " . I am thinking of making a trip to the docs to

get a copy of what was done back then. Would be interesting. I posted my TSH,

TT4 and T3uptake before....done this July.

Well, what happens and where I go is to be seen. I know that at this point

both Armour and HC have each made their beneficial changes in how I feel. I have

added DHEA, and later will switch to pregnenolone so my body has more choices. I

have started iron and continue to add pure salt daily to everything I eat. I am

really enjoying that! And I am avoiding the high potassium foods.

My own feeling about lab work is that it is only a guideline. If someone falls

within the " normal " ranges but feels lousy....and feels great on thyroid

supplements....I will not argue with supplementation. The gathering of values

from X number of people only tells you what those people were at. It does not

tell you where any one person should be...to feel great. One thing that was NOT

done that may have made the lab values more useful would have been noting the

ratios of T4, T3, and TSH to each other in each individual person. For example:

the estrogen dominance issue: you can be low in estrogen and still be estrogen

dominant where your progesterone is too low. Your values may even fall within

normal range and still you are off in ratio. They did not think to take the

values they received from the people regarding thyroid function and compare

relativity. Honestly, it was a sloppy study. I also do not have much faith in

tests that set a standard range of, say, 33-560. So, so what if you are within

the normal range? What does that mean for you? That range is too huge to speak

anything of the individual! It only means that you are the same as someone

else....so what....what does that mean for your own individual health?

Absolutely nothing. In fact, where my DHEA was lower than the " normal "

range...for all we know it is fine for me! Where I have symptoms that can be

explained by a low DHEA....THAT is where the values help.Help what? Help us to

say " aHA! " . Even if my DHEA were much higher....I absolutely KNOW I have burned

out adrenals. Why? Because I have symptoms that other people have had who have

been helped with hydrocortisone therapy....AND I am also being helped hugely by

hydrocortisone therapy. Do I need cortisol levels to know this? Absolutely not.

If I did the test I would only know where they are at that moment. I would not

know where I was when I felt great years ago. Even then, with age, these things

will change as our body changes its patterns of development and decline.

One of the tasks we veterinarians are dealing with right now with dogs'

" normal " blood values, is that those dogs that are fed raw foods have different

" normal " values than those that are fed processed foods. All the dog " normals "

were collected from lab dogs fed Purina or some such crap decades ago before

anyone realized that dogs cannot survive on indigestible protein and vegetable

fiber.

Doctors have to start thinking for themselves. Have you ever really, really

seen a person who is truly 100% healthy? So, how could they have ever generated

" normal " values to use to say where we would be if we were 100% healthy? The

docs forget: first use your judgment, your intelligence and what you have been

taught about observation of disease states. Use deductive reasoning....THEN

order labs if you have questions or the need to support your decisions. But do

not base medical decisions on lab values alone. That is taking the intelligence

out of healing.

Off the soapbox! :-)

Roxanna

Roxanna V. Knight-Plouff, D.V.M.

W Plouff

North Star German Shepherd Dog Rescue Inc

northstargsdr@...

www.northstargsdr.org

----- Original Message -----