Re: Please help

December 16, 2003

I do not know about current situations. But my sister died of lung cancer in a

convalescent home. Her care was totally covered by Medicaid I think. G

December 16, 2003

i don't know what to say except that i really for you and your family

jodi

My father is a 47 year old diabetic who has been noncompliant for

about fifteen years (basically since diagnosis).

December 16, 2003

If your doctor has declared him terminal perhaps the dr. or the home

health care company could help you find a hospice situation for him.

Try to find out if they want to release him because of his medical

situation or because Medicaid won't pay any more for nursing home care,

and then find out what alternatives to home care Medicaid will pay for.

Do you have any other relatives who can help you through this? Sounds

like you've got enough responsibility taking care of a 14 yo, without

having to do this all by yourself.

CarolR

shortie92180@... wrote:

> My father is a 47 year old diabetic who has been noncompliant for

> about fifteen years (basically since diagnosis). He is currently in

> a nursing home.

December 16, 2003

Dear Shortie (you didn't sign your name so Shortie will have to do...)

Your father might qualify for Hospice care, if there are any such

facilities in your area. This is the only suggestion I can think of.

I'm so very sorry to hear about your father's problems. This is a

classic case of what happens when a diabetic totally buries his head in

the sand. Had your father paid attention to his diabetes upon his

diagnosis, probably all of this could have been avoided.

However, that's neither here nor there. I don't really have any advice

for you; I can only offer sympathy. Oh, and point out that there is a

hereditary element to type 2 diabetes...so at least you'll know what NOT

to do if you get it.

..

There's actually a very good book by Gretchen Becker called " Stop

Diabetes: 50 Simple Steps You Can Take at Any Age to Reduce Your Risk of

Type 2 Diabetes " . Since you and your brother are at risk, you might

want to read this. It's in paperback, at Amazon.

Vicki

Please help

> My father is a 47 year old diabetic who has been noncompliant for

> about fifteen years (basically since diagnosis). He is currently in

> a nursing home. He is on the following meds:

>

> 1. Demadex

> 2. Protonix

> 3. Plavix

> 4. Tetracylcine

> 5. Cardizem CD

> 6. Sodium Bicarbonate

> 7. Zarozyline

> 8. Feasal

> 9. Celexa

> 10. Insulin

> 11. Procrit

>

> Forgive me on the spelling of these.

>

> He is on the following dietary restrictions:

>

> 1. Diabetic Diet

> 2. Low Sodium

> 3. Fluid Restriction - 1ltr a day

> 4. Potassium Restriction - 1 gram a day

>

> He is on Medicaid. The social worker is working on a discharge plan

> for him. He is going to be evaluated tomorrow by a home care

> agency. They say I would only get a nurse once a week but I would

> get Aids every day. I could also call and a nurse would come if I

> have trouble with him.

>

> At home his sugar always runs high. We have a meter that goes up to

> 600 and the hope is that we can get a reading on the meter. The

> higher his sugar is the more moody and nasty he is. It is me (I'm

> 23) and my 14yr old brother at home. I don't feel comfortable

> bringing him home because I know he's not going to do the right

> things. The doctor has even said that he's terminal and that he's

> going to die if he comes home. We are trying to stall him coming

> home until after the holidays. I have no clue what to do.

>

> Any suggestions?

December 16, 2003

my father's a type 1 been insulin dependant since diagnosis.

whimsy2 wrote:Dear Shortie (you didn't sign your name so

Shortie will have to do...)

Your father might qualify for Hospice care, if there are any such

facilities in your area. This is the only suggestion I can think of.

I'm so very sorry to hear about your father's problems. This is a

classic case of what happens when a diabetic totally buries his head in

the sand. Had your father paid attention to his diabetes upon his

diagnosis, probably all of this could have been avoided.

However, that's neither here nor there. I don't really have any advice

for you; I can only offer sympathy. Oh, and point out that there is a

hereditary element to type 2 diabetes...so at least you'll know what NOT

to do if you get it.

..

There's actually a very good book by Gretchen Becker called " Stop

Diabetes: 50 Simple Steps You Can Take at Any Age to Reduce Your Risk of

Type 2 Diabetes " . Since you and your brother are at risk, you might

want to read this. It's in paperback, at Amazon.

Vicki

December 16, 2003

medicaid will pay for the nursing home indefinitely they are working on

discharge because he wants to go home. He says that the nursing home knows

nothing about diabetes. He's a nut. Don't know if hospice will take him if

he's not willing to be taken My grandfather is 85 senile can't really help my

uncle is useless.

Carol wrote:If your doctor has declared him

terminal perhaps the dr. or the home

health care company could help you find a hospice situation for him.

Try to find out if they want to release him because of his medical

situation or because Medicaid won't pay any more for nursing home care,

and then find out what alternatives to home care Medicaid will pay for.

Do you have any other relatives who can help you through this? Sounds

like you've got enough responsibility taking care of a 14 yo, without

having to do this all by yourself.

CarolR

December 16, 2003

On the surface of this it does seem to be a dilemma, however, I want to

point out one thing. It is our duty as children and as human beings to take

care of those who can't take care of themselves and this is particularly

true of our parents. But, what does that mean? Sometimes people back

themselves into a corner by believing that they then must take personal care

of their parent. What the real deal is though, is that you are responsible

for making sure that your father receives the best possible care that is

available and that may not be in your home. You haven't said if your father

can live in a group home where he would receive around the clock care with

attendants who are accustomed to taking care of hard to deal with patients.

That is not abandonment, that is reality. The social worker has got to be

aware of the situation, your youth, your brother, and your father's

temperament. All of those things need to be taken into account in planning

aftercare. Ask about a group home. At least ask. They are frequently an

excellent alternative. And your father's disability payments which I am

assuming he gets and other state programs might well make this a viable

option financially. I don't know what state you are in so don't know what

resources are available. You don't need to feel guilty about it. As long as

you take your responsibility seriously and find the best care that you can

you have done the loving thing. This would be an incredible situation for

anyone to deal with....don't panic, take one day at a time. I surely support

you in your decision about not bringing him home until after the New Year.

You also have to take into consideration your young brother and his good

care as well as your own. Keep in touch with us and let us know how it is

going. We faced the same dilemma although a bit different, but the aides

just didn't meet the needs. We had a very difficult time with their

dependability where they just didn't show up. I know that that is not the

case in most instances, but it was ours. You take good care of yourself.

linda

----- Original Message -----

My father is a 47 year old diabetic who has been noncompliant for

about fifteen years (basically since diagnosis). He is currently in

a nursing home. He is on the following meds:

1. Demadex

2. Protonix

3. Plavix

4. Tetracylcine

5. Cardizem CD

6. Sodium Bicarbonate

7. Zarozyline

8. Feasal

9. Celexa

10. Insulin

11. Procrit

Forgive me on the spelling of these.

He is on the following dietary restrictions:

1. Diabetic Diet

2. Low Sodium

3. Fluid Restriction - 1ltr a day

4. Potassium Restriction - 1 gram a day

He is on Medicaid. The social worker is working on a discharge plan

for him. He is going to be evaluated tomorrow by a home care

agency. They say I would only get a nurse once a week but I would

get Aids every day. I could also call and a nurse would come if I

have trouble with him.

At home his sugar always runs high. We have a meter that goes up to

600 and the hope is that we can get a reading on the meter. The

higher his sugar is the more moody and nasty he is. It is me (I'm

23) and my 14yr old brother at home. I don't feel comfortable

bringing him home because I know he's not going to do the right

things. The doctor has even said that he's terminal and that he's

going to die if he comes home. We are trying to stall him coming

home until after the holidays. I have no clue what to do.

Any suggestions?

December 17, 2003

It's possible that the nursing home doesn't know " anything " about

diabetes but it doesn't sound like your father does, either. Or he had

very bad medical advice. Even type 1s can gain good control and avoid

complications if they're properly motivated and educated.

I notice among his meds is an antidepressant. Perhaps it needs to be

increased. Or he may need another class of antidepressant.

Vicki, LADA type 1 diagnosed 1997, UL and Humalog insulin and lotsa

testing, no complications.

Re: Please help

> medicaid will pay for the nursing home indefinitely they are working

on discharge because he wants to go home. He says that the nursing home

knows nothing about diabetes. He's a nut. Don't know if hospice will

take him if he's not willing to be taken My grandfather is 85 senile

can't really help my uncle is useless.

>

> Carol wrote:If your doctor has

declared him terminal perhaps the dr. or the home

> health care company could help you find a hospice situation for him.

> Try to find out if they want to release him because of his medical

> situation or because Medicaid won't pay any more for nursing home

care,

> and then find out what alternatives to home care Medicaid will pay

for.

> Do you have any other relatives who can help you through this?

Sounds

> like you've got enough responsibility taking care of a 14 yo, without

> having to do this all by yourself.

>

> CarolR

December 17, 2003

On further thought, I wonder about that " type 1 insulin dependent "

diagnosis, Eileen. If your father is 47 now and has had diabetes for 15

years, that means he was diagnosed at age 32. The LADA diagnosis is a

fairly recent one ( " latent autoimmune diabetes in adults " ); up until

fairly recently it was assumed that if your diabetes was adult onset you

were type 2; if you got it as a child you were type 1. There are still a

huge percentage of doctors who believe this.

The fact of taking insulin to control does not make a type 2 into a type

1.

We now know that the differences is actually how the person GOT

diabetes, not whether or not they need to take insulin. Type 1 is

autoimmune induced; type 2 has a strong hereditary component. Also, most

type 2 diabetics have a typical " apple shape, " Type 1s are usually of

normal weight or even thin. Also people with type 1 need a relatively

small amount of insulin to control.

So -- if you know the answer -- does your father take large amounts of

insulin? And when he was diagnosed, was he overweight?

Vicki

Re: Please help

> my father's a type 1 been insulin dependant since diagnosis.

>

> whimsy2 wrote:Dear Shortie (you didn't sign your

name so Shortie will have to do...)

>

> Your father might qualify for Hospice care, if there are any such

> facilities in your area. This is the only suggestion I can think of.

>

> I'm so very sorry to hear about your father's problems. This is a

> classic case of what happens when a diabetic totally buries his head

in

> the sand. Had your father paid attention to his diabetes upon his

> diagnosis, probably all of this could have been avoided.

>

> However, that's neither here nor there. I don't really have any

advice

> for you; I can only offer sympathy. Oh, and point out that there is a

> hereditary element to type 2 diabetes...so at least you'll know what

NOT

> to do if you get it.

> .

> There's actually a very good book by Gretchen Becker called " Stop

> Diabetes: 50 Simple Steps You Can Take at Any Age to Reduce Your Risk

of

> Type 2 Diabetes " . Since you and your brother are at risk, you might

> want to read this. It's in paperback, at Amazon.

> Vicki

December 17, 2003

takes large amounts of insulin, was not over wieght before he was diagnosed.

Probably had it for years before diagnosis.

whimsy2 wrote:On further thought, I wonder about that " type 1

insulin dependent "

diagnosis, Eileen. If your father is 47 now and has had diabetes for 15

years, that means he was diagnosed at age 32. The LADA diagnosis is a

fairly recent one ( " latent autoimmune diabetes in adults " ); up until

fairly recently it was assumed that if your diabetes was adult onset you

were type 2; if you got it as a child you were type 1. There are still a

huge percentage of doctors who believe this.

The fact of taking insulin to control does not make a type 2 into a type

1.

We now know that the differences is actually how the person GOT

diabetes, not whether or not they need to take insulin. Type 1 is

autoimmune induced; type 2 has a strong hereditary component. Also, most

type 2 diabetics have a typical " apple shape, " Type 1s are usually of

normal weight or even thin. Also people with type 1 need a relatively

small amount of insulin to control.

So -- if you know the answer -- does your father take large amounts of

insulin? And when he was diagnosed, was he overweight?

Vicki

December 17, 2003

In that case I would just TELL the nursing home that what Dad wants is

not going to work. You can't take care of him AND a 14 yo AND Christmas

AND your own life. Especially since Dad refuses to take any measures to

care for himself.

CarolR

Eileen wrote:

> medicaid will pay for the nursing home indefinitely they are working on

discharge because he wants to go home.

December 17, 2003

Yes, but the fact that he probably had it years before diagnosis makes

him absolutely a type 2. Type 1s have NO pancreatic function and

cannot live without insulin, period. And it would have been very

obvious, too.

Type 1 is of rather sudden onset; type 2 is slow, gradual onset.

(Another difference between type 1 and 2).

Vicki

Re: Please help

> takes large amounts of insulin, was not over wieght before he was

diagnosed. Probably had it for years before diagnosis.

>

> whimsy2 wrote:On further thought, I wonder about

that " type 1 insulin dependent "

> diagnosis, Eileen. If your father is 47 now and has had diabetes for

15

> years, that means he was diagnosed at age 32. The LADA diagnosis is

a

> fairly recent one ( " latent autoimmune diabetes in adults " ); up until

> fairly recently it was assumed that if your diabetes was adult onset

you

> were type 2; if you got it as a child you were type 1. There are still

a

> huge percentage of doctors who believe this.

>

> The fact of taking insulin to control does not make a type 2 into a

type

> 1.

>

> We now know that the differences is actually how the person GOT

> diabetes, not whether or not they need to take insulin. Type 1 is

> autoimmune induced; type 2 has a strong hereditary component. Also,

most

> type 2 diabetics have a typical " apple shape, " Type 1s are usually of

> normal weight or even thin. Also people with type 1 need a relatively

> small amount of insulin to control.

>

> So -- if you know the answer -- does your father take large amounts of

> insulin? And when he was diagnosed, was he overweight?

> Vicki

December 17, 2003

Refuse to take him. That is all I can think of. G

December 17, 2003

If this is your father's home then he does have the right to come home

regardless of how it might affect his health or your life or your brother's

life. However, if it is your home you can refuse to take him and insist that

alternative arrangements be made. You cannot be required to take care of him

legally so don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If it is his home then your

only alternative if you don't want to live in the same household is to find

another place. Your brother is also old enough to decide whether or not to

stay with his father in his father's home or go with you or to another

family member...but that might take a lawyer to force the issue. Most of the

time 14 is consider an age that the child is capable of making a decision

about what relative to live with provided he has sufficient reason and the

relative is capable and willing to take him in. If Dad comes home and has

aides then he will be taken care of and without you there the system can't

somehow trap you into doing something that you don't want to do. It sounds

as if the system is saying that your father is not ill enough/old

enough/disabled enough to require foster home care. If he doesn't take care

of himself though, he will be shortly.

linda

December 18, 2003

In a message dated 12/18/2003 10:00:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,

sandyb@... writes:

Nice thought but the reality is that it's not that simple when it gets down

to a question of legal rights. My brother and I learned that when our mom

had a stroke a couple years ago. Even with medical " power of attorney, "

which we had, we could not override her decisions as long as she could

speak for herself and was *legally* able (i.e., not officially declared

" legally incompetent, " etc.) to make them. As mom's lawyer told us . . .

" you cannot keep her from making bad, stupid or ill-advised decisions. " You

only have power over what YOU will do.

This is true. I had a similar situation with my mom. An alcoholic. Aye yi

yi what the family went through. She had developed two football size pseudo

cysts on her pancreas. Her family doctor wouldn't treat her because she was an

alcoholic and she said she wanted to live and get her medical treatment. I

got a doctor to do the surgery.

She still went back to drinking after being told not ONE drop of booze, it

will kill you.

It was so hard to know she was drinking. I could hear the ice cubes clanking

in the glass when we'd talk on the phone. Voice slurred. More she drank the

more abusive and mean she got. She said horrible things to me and about me.

It was just awful.

So, this is why she wanted to live? Self absorbed, self destructive and

abusive to anyone who came near her. Wow!

My advice? Whatever you do, treat this parent in a way that will leave you

with no regrets after he passes away. I did what I could. I did what was

reasonable. I tried to look out for him. If you are feeling a lot of pain,

anger

and fear, go see a shrink for a few visits to just spit it out. Sometimes,

they have pretty good suggestions for coping.

I'm sorry this is happening to you. It sucks. It's one of those deals that

whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Life lessons are hard knocks

usually but after all is said and done, maybe you'll see how it has made you a

better person for having gone through the ordeal. At least, i hope so.

Sometimes, all there is for you is prayer to give you strength, compassion

and the ability to see things clearly and respond appropriately. I'll say one

for you and your family tonight.

Dee

December 18, 2003

whimsy2 wrote:

>On further thought, I wonder about that " type 1 insulin dependent "

>diagnosis, Eileen. If your father is 47 now and has had diabetes for 15

>years, that means he was diagnosed at age 32. The LADA diagnosis is a

>fairly recent one ( " latent autoimmune diabetes in adults " ); up until

>fairly recently it was assumed that if your diabetes was adult onset you

>were type 2; if you got it as a child you were type 1. There are still a

>huge percentage of doctors who believe this.

I was diagnosed Type 1, autoimmune onset, in 1979 at age 29 and have never

heard the term LADA except on this list and have never had it applied to

me. Age of onset does not determine type of diabetes, period.

Sandy

December 18, 2003

thanks sandy. My father was 32 at diagnosis and the doctor verified yesterday

he's type 1 possibly caused by a triggering factor - sickness, stress or in

his case alcohol

Sandy Burdsall wrote:whimsy2 wrote:

>On further thought, I wonder about that " type 1 insulin dependent "

>diagnosis, Eileen. If your father is 47 now and has had diabetes for 15

>years, that means he was diagnosed at age 32. The LADA diagnosis is a

>fairly recent one ( " latent autoimmune diabetes in adults " ); up until

>fairly recently it was assumed that if your diabetes was adult onset you

>were type 2; if you got it as a child you were type 1. There are still a

>huge percentage of doctors who believe this.

I was diagnosed Type 1, autoimmune onset, in 1979 at age 29 and have never

heard the term LADA except on this list and have never had it applied to

me. Age of onset does not determine type of diabetes, period.

Sandy

December 18, 2003

>In that case I would just TELL the nursing home that what Dad wants is

>not going to work. You can't take care of him AND a 14 yo AND Christmas

>AND your own life. Especially since Dad refuses to take any measures to

>care for himself. CarolR

Nice thought but the reality is that it's not that simple when it gets down

to a question of legal rights. My brother and I learned that when our mom

had a stroke a couple years ago. Even with medical " power of attorney, "

which we had, we could not override her decisions as long as she could

speak for herself and was *legally* able (i.e., not officially declared

" legally incompetent, " etc.) to make them. As mom's lawyer told us . . .

" you cannot keep her from making bad, stupid or ill-advised decisions. " You

only have power over what YOU will do. So, the choices are his but so is

the responsibility. And if the house is his, he can move back into it. But

what you do is still your choice (and responsibility). Not an easy or

pleasant situation, especially at your age and with a minor sibling (who is

whose legal responsibility?). You may want to speak to a lawyer re: your

choices and possibilities.

Sandy

>Eileen wrote:

> > medicaid will pay for the nursing home indefinitely they are working

> on discharge because he wants to go home.

December 18, 2003

I have custody of my brother

Sandy Burdsall wrote: