Re: - question on last shoes

December 31, 2000

Dorothy,

I am going to jump in here and answer for (hope you don't mind,

). Yes, the reverse last shoes are the ones that appear to be on

the wrong feet. Dr. Ponseti and those using his method use straight

last shoes which can be worn on either foot. I have not personally seen

the reverse last shoes, but I do believe I have also heard them referred

to as outflares (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

Dorothy Colby wrote:

> Hi ,

> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do you

> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

December 31, 2000

Reverse-last shoes look like they are on the wrong feet, but are

otherwise like the shoes most of you are using. They come open and

closed toe. I use them once in a while after casting forefoot

adductus (not related to clubfoot) if I want to maintain some medial

pressure for a month or two. When I was a resident they were

standard treatment after ff add casting. As ff add is a component of

clubfoot, some people may use them with the same rationale.

However... my observation is that with the Ponseti casting the

forefoot corrects very nicely with the casting and therefore the use

of straight last shoes only. However, I doubt that it is doing any

harm to use them. If there's one thing that you learn in practice it

is that there are many ways to " skin a cat " (my black feline, Oshka,

cringes at the phrase) and that it is the outcomes that matter most.

Happy New Year, all.

osn

December 31, 2000

Dorothy,

The U of Iowa uses what are called straight last shoes made by

Markell Shoes (Tarso model #1644). I think that the " straight " means

that there is no left or right shoe. A web site at Markell shows

both a straight last and reverse last shoe at

http://www.markellshoe.com/tarso1.html There are also probably other

companies that make similar kinds of shoes. I assume that each

method or doctor has their own reasons for using one kind of shoe or

another.

A good site to look at that shows photo's of each step in the Ponseti

method is from the Cottons family who went to NYU. Their site also

shows a typical sequence of 5 Ponseti method casts at

http://hometown.aol.com/vc11/week1.htm

and (3-17-99)

> Hi ,

> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do

you

> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia

(09/19/00)

December 31, 2000

These shoes you are all speaking of were the shoes that (my oldest)

could have benefited from for her metatarsus adductus. By the time we found

out about them she was too old for them. Would these be used for the

non-surgical methods if there was a question regarding the outer edge of the

feet being not straight enough, or are they just a difference in doctors

techniques?

By the way, they also told us we could try putting s shoes on the

wrong feet. Can you imagine that! She would have looked ridiculous!

Holly

Re: - question on last shoes

>Dorothy,

>

>I am going to jump in here and answer for (hope you don't mind,

>). Yes, the reverse last shoes are the ones that appear to be on

>the wrong feet. Dr. Ponseti and those using his method use straight

>last shoes which can be worn on either foot. I have not personally seen

>the reverse last shoes, but I do believe I have also heard them referred

>to as outflares (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

>

>Dorothy Colby wrote:

>

>> Hi ,

>> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

>> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do you

>> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

>> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

>> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

>

December 31, 2000

Thanks to everyone for all the information on the shoes. And thanks

for the links . Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

> > Hi ,

> > In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

> > differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do

> you

> > mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's

the

> > kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

> > didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia

> (09/19/00)

December 31, 2000

Well Holly Zowie has her shoes on the wrong feet and I dont think it looks

bad at all, And YES it is to help correct the feet. Zowie is in the DBB but

they are still on the wrong feet so I dont realy seeing anything wrong with

that situation unless she were to take them off all the time.. I mean if it

means correcting the feet dont you think it would be a good idea?

Shanna

Re: - question on last shoes

>

>>Dorothy,

>>

>>I am going to jump in here and answer for (hope you don't mind,

>>). Yes, the reverse last shoes are the ones that appear to be on

>>the wrong feet. Dr. Ponseti and those using his method use straight

>>last shoes which can be worn on either foot. I have not personally seen

>>the reverse last shoes, but I do believe I have also heard them referred

>>to as outflares (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

>>

>>Dorothy Colby wrote:

>>

>>> Hi ,

>>> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

>>> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do you

>>> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

>>> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

>>> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

>>

December 31, 2000

Zowie is actually wearing these shoes now. They do look like they are on the

wrong feet and the buckle is stillon her outer side of her foot. They dont

really look that bad to me.

Shanna

Re: - question on last shoes

>Dorothy,

>

>I am going to jump in here and answer for (hope you don't mind,

>). Yes, the reverse last shoes are the ones that appear to be on

>the wrong feet. Dr. Ponseti and those using his method use straight

>last shoes which can be worn on either foot. I have not personally seen

>the reverse last shoes, but I do believe I have also heard them referred

>to as outflares (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

>

>Dorothy Colby wrote:

>

>> Hi ,

>> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

>> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do you

>> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

>> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

>> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

>

December 31, 2000

Yeah I would like to know also... LOL

Zowie is in the shoes that look as if they are on the wrong feet..

Shanna

- question on last shoes

>Hi ,

>In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

>differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do you

>mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

>kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

>didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

>

December 31, 2000

Shanna,

First of all I was not speaking of the DBB shoes that are reversed laced, I

was stating the fact that our old ped ortho suggested we put s REGULAR

TENNIS SHOES on the wrong feet. I was not suggesting that any child with the

reversed laced shoes look any different from those children with the

straight laced shoes. I really wish you would'nt take everything soooo

personally, I don't even think I was talking about Zowie, was I?

Holly

Re: - question on last shoes

>>

>>>Dorothy,

>>>

>>>I am going to jump in here and answer for (hope you don't mind,

>>>). Yes, the reverse last shoes are the ones that appear to be on

>>>the wrong feet. Dr. Ponseti and those using his method use straight

>>>last shoes which can be worn on either foot. I have not personally seen

>>>the reverse last shoes, but I do believe I have also heard them referred

>>>to as outflares (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

>>>

>>>Dorothy Colby wrote:

>>>

>>>> Hi ,

>>>> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

>>>> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do you

>>>> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

>>>> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

>>>> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

>>>

December 31, 2000

Excuse me..... I was asking you if they were the DBB and if not why would it

be any different if you put her shoes on the wrong feet and NO you werent

talking about ZOWIE but you WERE asking ADVICE werent you? And what makes

you think I take things so PERSONALY????? And you should have STATED that

clearly if you were talking about the DBB all you said was her shoes!!!! And

is this a problem you have with me or something? Why would you say that?

That I take things so personaly I was TELLING you about how Zowie's shoes

were I wasnt trying to be a bitch about it so chill out!

Shanna

Re: - question on last shoes

>>>

>>>>Dorothy,

>>>>

>>>>I am going to jump in here and answer for (hope you don't mind,

>>>>). Yes, the reverse last shoes are the ones that appear to be on

>>>>the wrong feet. Dr. Ponseti and those using his method use straight

>>>>last shoes which can be worn on either foot. I have not personally seen

>>>>the reverse last shoes, but I do believe I have also heard them referred

>>>>to as outflares (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

>>>>

>>>>Dorothy Colby wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Hi ,

>>>>> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

>>>>> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do you

>>>>> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

>>>>> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

>>>>> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

>>>>

December 31, 2000

And you know Holly in my message I dont see anywhere in there where I seem

to be taking anything SOOOO personally!I was saying that kids in the DBB and

the shoes are ont he wrong feet that they dont look bad at all... Referring

to that even if you had to put your childs shoes on the wrong feet why would

it look badly? THAT IS what I was referring too. I dont see where you take

it upon yourself saying I take EVRYTHING so PERSONALY!!!

Shanna

Re: - question on last shoes

>>>

>>>>Dorothy,

>>>>

>>>>I am going to jump in here and answer for (hope you don't mind,

>>>>). Yes, the reverse last shoes are the ones that appear to be on

>>>>the wrong feet. Dr. Ponseti and those using his method use straight

>>>>last shoes which can be worn on either foot. I have not personally seen

>>>>the reverse last shoes, but I do believe I have also heard them referred

>>>>to as outflares (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

>>>>

>>>>Dorothy Colby wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> Hi ,

>>>>> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

>>>>> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do you

>>>>> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

>>>>> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

>>>>> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

>>>>

December 31, 2000

You know what Shanna, this group was not set up to ridicule other people or

to make them feel badly about something they either are or are not doing to

try and help their children regarding clubfeet. Also, the message I wrote

back to you was regarding how and why the reversed laced shoes were being

worn and many of the parents on this board who have known me for quite some

time now know that my first daughter was born with metatarsus adductus and

that I had WISHED she could have benefited from shoes such as the reversed

laced shoes for her different problem. No, I was not asking advice ON the

shoes, in fact the post from clearly pointed out in fact my point

and I thank her for that clear description of how and why many doctors still

use them.

As for me stating that in my opinion you seem to take things personally,

that is because of your harsh way of answering certain posts when it is

obvious that you did not understand the point I and others (at one time or

another) are or were trying to make.

As for your point about me not making it clear about talking about the

DBB's, I was speaking of my older daugher, , she does not have

clubfeet, my youngest, has clubfeet, so obviously you did not read my

entire post and just chose the part that you felt you wished to comment on

without just cause. Like I previously wrote, had metatarsus adductus,

which is related to clubfeet and many times can be helped if special shoes

(reversed lace) are worn for a few months.

I think you should be a little kinder with your responses from now on

Shanna, no one here including myself has given you any reason to bite off my

head for something that really was'nt even directed at you or your daughter.

Now as for my daughter looking funny in her tennis shoes backwards, she was

2 1/2 years old and running around and yes, I do think she would have looked

rather funny. Sorry you don't agree, difference of opinion I guess, again, I

was not taking about your child.

I see you have posted me again, so let's just put this one to rest, shall

we! I have answered many of your posts before, and definitly was not

expecting a response from you like these, sorry you seem to be so upset.

Holly and

Re: - question on last shoes

>>>>

>>>>>Dorothy,

>>>>>

>>>>>I am going to jump in here and answer for (hope you don't mind,

>>>>>). Yes, the reverse last shoes are the ones that appear to be on

>>>>>the wrong feet. Dr. Ponseti and those using his method use straight

>>>>>last shoes which can be worn on either foot. I have not personally

seen

>>>>>the reverse last shoes, but I do believe I have also heard them

referred

>>>>>to as outflares (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

>>>>>

>>>>>Dorothy Colby wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Hi ,

>>>>>> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

>>>>>> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do you

>>>>>> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

>>>>>> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

>>>>>> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

>>>>>

December 31, 2000

No Holly I do not know who you are but when you posted a response to me it

sounded VERY RUDE! So in fact YES I am going to come back with something to

say about it. Now as for you and your daughter I have never even seen any of

your posts or even really read any of them because well I guess our kids

dont have the same thing. And no this board is not set up for people like

that and why would YOU of all people who came back to me with a harsh reply!

" I dont even think I was talking about Zowie,Now to me that sounded kind of

rude and harsh to say about my daughter even though you may not see it but

when someone posts a reply to a message you could have come back NICELY! and

said " Oh well my daughter has something so different so it wouldnt have

anything to do with what your daughter Zowie has. " That ould have been nicer

so YOU are the one taking things so PERSONAL! Now yes I think this board is

for asking others for help and posting all about our problems and such and

well I think the main reason here is that EVERY time I post something in

this board obviously you all think I take everything SOOOO Personal well

yeah when some one address me in that tone I am going to take it personal!

So I think you need to get off of my back cause I have no clue as to who you

are and I dont think we have anything more to say. Now if this is going to

reflect my being a part of this board then I think we have a problem cause

this board is for helping others understand RIGHT? about others childrens

foot abnormalities. SO excuse ME! If I seem to take things SOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Personal!

Shanna

Re: - question on last shoes

>>>>>

>>>>>>Dorothy,

>>>>>>

>>>>>>I am going to jump in here and answer for (hope you don't mind,

>>>>>>). Yes, the reverse last shoes are the ones that appear to be

on

>>>>>>the wrong feet. Dr. Ponseti and those using his method use straight

>>>>>>last shoes which can be worn on either foot. I have not personally

>seen

>>>>>>the reverse last shoes, but I do believe I have also heard them

>referred

>>>>>>to as outflares (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

>>>>>>

>>>>>>Dorothy Colby wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Hi ,

>>>>>>> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

>>>>>>> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do you

>>>>>>> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

>>>>>>> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

>>>>>>> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia (09/19/00)

>>>>>>

December 31, 2000

Whatever Shanna,

As I said before my name is Holly and my daughter was born with

severe, bilateral clubfeet, but yes I have more than one child and she had a

mild case of metatarsus in her feet, that was the child I was speaking about

in that now FAMOUS and obviously misunderstood message about shoes. (Not

even directed to you) I have posted you before regarding the gap sock, and I

believe I was one of the first to reply to you when you first wrote on the

no surgery4clubfoot board and most recently regarding that I thought your

doctor was very similar to the Ponseti method and I stated I thought you had

more in common with the parents on this group than maybe you realized. If

you don't remember any of this, well then perhaps you are right, we don't

have anything in common and it is probably best to leave it at that. Please

don't complain anymore about no one answering your posts because it's just

not true and maybe people don't want to be dished what you are dishing me

tonight. Best of Luck,

Holly and

P.S. I would appreciate no more rude return remarks and I will do the same.

Re: - question on last shoes

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>Dorothy,

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>I am going to jump in here and answer for (hope you don't

mind,

>>>>>>>). Yes, the reverse last shoes are the ones that appear to be

>on

>>>>>>>the wrong feet. Dr. Ponseti and those using his method use straight

>>>>>>>last shoes which can be worn on either foot. I have not personally

>>seen

>>>>>>>the reverse last shoes, but I do believe I have also heard them

>>referred

>>>>>>>to as outflares (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this).

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>Dorothy Colby wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Hi ,

>>>>>>>> In your post to Shanna recently you mentioned on the the points

>>>>>>>> differing from Ponseti is the reverse last shoes. By reverse do

you

>>>>>>>> mean the ones that look like they are on the wrong feet (that's the

>>>>>>>> kind Amelia has)? What kind does Ponseti use if not reverse (I

>>>>>>>> didn't know of any other kind)? Thanks, Dorothy & Amelia

(09/19/00)

>>>>>>>

December 31, 2000

Shanna,

I am a little curious now. At what angle are Zowie's reverse last shoes

set on the DBB? In using the Ponseti Method, the straight last shoes

are attached to the bar at a 70 degree outward angle for the clubfoot

and 40 degrees outward angle for non-clubfoot (if the child only has 1

clubfoot). The reason I ask is because I personally think it would be

difficult to buckle the straps if the buckle was to the outside of the

foot due to the overcorrection used during the Ponseti Method. Jakob

has always had the straight last shoes on his DBB set at 70 degrees

outward rotation with the buckles in the inside of his feet.

Shanna wrote:

> Zowie is actually wearing these shoes now. They do look like they are

> on the

> wrong feet and the buckle is stillon her outer side of her foot. They

> dont

> really look that bad to me.

>

> Shanna

December 31, 2000

>I personally think it would be difficult to buckle

> the straps if the buckle was to the outside of

> the foot due to the overcorrection used during

> the Ponseti Method. Jakob has always had

> the straight last shoes on his DBB set at 70

> degrees outward rotation with the buckles in

> the inside of his feet.

Weird, ! Rose's buckles are to the outside of her feet! I wonder

if it's because she only has the one clubfoot? Poll time?!

Joy

http://community.webtv.net/joybelle15/ROSESCLUBFOOTPAGE

December 31, 2000

Well the buckle is on the outer side of the feet and is set on the number 6

on each shoes. So I am assuming this is a 60 degree angle? The other shoes

she had also had the buckle on the outside of the foot. He specially ordered

these ones too.

Is that what you were asking?? LOL

Shanna

Re: - question on last shoes

>Shanna,

>

>I am a little curious now. At what angle are Zowie's reverse last shoes

>set on the DBB? In using the Ponseti Method, the straight last shoes

>are attached to the bar at a 70 degree outward angle for the clubfoot

>and 40 degrees outward angle for non-clubfoot (if the child only has 1

>clubfoot). The reason I ask is because I personally think it would be

>difficult to buckle the straps if the buckle was to the outside of the

>foot due to the overcorrection used during the Ponseti Method. Jakob

>has always had the straight last shoes on his DBB set at 70 degrees

>outward rotation with the buckles in the inside of his feet.

>

>Shanna wrote:

>

>> Zowie is actually wearing these shoes now. They do look like they are

>> on the

>> wrong feet and the buckle is stillon her outer side of her foot. They

>> dont

>> really look that bad to me.

>>

>> Shanna

>

December 31, 2000

Zowie has Bilateral clubbed foot. so both of the shoes are set at the

same......