Re: neurotic patients testing alot

[Guest guest]

Gwalcharian wrote:

> When I was given my monitor, I was told to test 3x/day: waking, bedtime, and

to vary the timing of the 3rd test. The nutritionist reiterated this. And my

dr commented on how often I seemed to be testing...

>

,

This is a pet peeve of mine.

Many Drs/Nutritionists give these type of guidelines, or even suggest

testing less than that (some none at all!)

Then they wonder why their patients are out of control.

How can a patient be in control if they don't get immediate feedback

on their lifestyle choices (diet/exercise/etc)?

You need to decide for yourself how much testing is necessary for

" you " to control your bg's. It is, after all, you that have to do the

work of controlling. Testing is very important part of the education

process that allows us to achieve those " normal non-diabetic " bg's

necessary to minimize complication risk.

, T2, dx'ed 4/98, controlling with LC, average bg 100mg/dl, last

HbA1c 5.6%

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Sorry if I said anything to offend you. I certainly didn't mean to

make you feel bad. It's easy to forget that everyone's situation is

different and everyone has different health coverage or even none.

In my case my doctor adjusts my scripts according to use. A lot of

docs will. They don't have anything financial to lose.

For me, It's a good idea to test through out the day because my body

utilitizes carbs differently at different times of the day or month.

My sugars are not metabolized well in the morning and as a result I

either have to eat less or use more insulin.

Sounds like you are still able to control your sugars with diet.

That's so great. Good luck to you. -H

>I guess I don't really understand running and

> testing every time I eat something new. I guess that some things

are

> going to be worse than others but as long as I'm staying with

limited

> carbs, what's the diff?

>

> P.S. Please don't jump on me... I am just trying to learn and

figure

> out why my doctors orders are so different than what I'm reading on

> this group.

[Guest guest]

Thatnks .... that is exactly what I'm going to do the next time I see

my dr. I feel I should be testing more but I need the strips and the RX

that will get them covered by insurance.

Re: " neurotic " patients testing alot

> My Dr was the same, but, because I was in " excellent " control, was still

> willing to prescribe as many test strips as I wanted to maintain that

level of

> control. I need the prescription so my insurance will pay for the strips

(with

> co-pay).

>

> The best approach, IMHO, is to be prepared to explain the reason you want

to

> test more than normal, and that will have to do with wanting to achieve

those

> " excellent " bg's (normal non-diabetic), and knowing how our lifestyle

choices

> (diet/exercise, etc) effect bg's by sufficient testing (as defined by

" you " ).

> , T2, dx'ed 4/98, controlling with LC, average bg 100mg/dl, last

HbA1c

> 5.6%

>

[Guest guest]

don't want to jump on you.....but just think your body will react

differently on a daily basis and to different combination on foods, activity

excercise etc. no 2 days are the same. i have had diabetes for 15 years and

have had X # of testing times the doctor ask fo.

r so far the only one i find works is testing before after meals after

excercise and before bed. i know its a lot of strips but i actually sat down

and thought how many things i buy which might look good , or are on sale, or

because i want them...or eat out and pay restrauant bills well if i spend

say $50 on diabetes every now and then is it so bad?... i can do without

some of the other stuff that i gladly spend money on. my strips cost $30 per

50 but heck i get to test as much as i want and that gives me peace of mind

like nothing else. i count this cost as an essential like water, electricity

or phone bill....cheeky

>

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[Guest guest]

, I don't think Cheeky was telling you what to do. She was just stating

what she does.

Vicki

In a message dated 06/08/2003 7:26:34 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

GlassArtist@... writes:

>

> Well you don't know my situation, so don't tell me that I can spend money on

> test strips and give up something else, okay?

>

> D.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ...your frustration and depression are perfectly understandable and

normal. Believe me, we've all been there.

It's especially frustrating to get bad advice from medical

professionals...they ought to know better. But most of them are following the

ADA line which,

despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, continues to push the food

pyramid which is carb-heavy. You might wonder why the ADA does this. I can

provide

you with a list of their major contributors, which might give you a clue.

IMHO, the ADA has a vested interest in keeping diabetics dependent on

medications. Am I cynical? You betcha!

Have you read the links at the bottom of this page? Especially the " success

stories " ? If you haven't, I strongly suggest you check it out. Have you read

my absolutely to favorite books on diabetes, " Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes

Solutions " by K. Bernstein and Gretchen Becker's book on Type 2

Diabetes, The

First Year? (The exact title is in the " suggested reading " section at the

bottom of this page). Also bear in mind that Dr. Bernstein is an MD who

reversed

own his diabetic complications by the methods stated in his book. These are

both very inspirational reading, IMHO.

Very few doctors are used to seeing patients who want to be actively involved

in their diabetic care and some are threatened by this. Most of them see

patients who want to take a pill and forget about doing anything else.

Naturally,

a lot of these people get diabetic complications ultimately...and so this is

what doctors expect to see and very often tell their patients that diabetic

complications are inevitable. But we're here to tell you, it doesn't have to be

that way.

The best thing you can do for yourself is test frequently to learn how

different foods affect your BGs. Most of us have found that the " whites " -- all

cereal products including breads and pasta - rice and root veggies in addition

to

most fruits and sweets, of course -- affect our BGs. But not all of us react

the same to these foods, that's why testing is so important.

It takes a while to get used to the idea of never eating your favorite foods

again. But when you weigh this against the results of continued high BGs --

i.e. painful peripheral neuropathy, blurry vision and possible blindness, heart

disease, poor wound healing and possible amputation, heart disease, renal

failure and dialysis -- somehow, IMHO, it's worth the sacrifice. And you can

develop new food favorites to replace those you can't eat any longer. There are

a vast array of lowcarb products available now and some of them are quite good

(although pricy).

Getting good BGs is a real positive reinforcer, which is another reason to

test frequently. I hope you'll see it this way.

And feel free to vent here. We understand, truly we do!

Vicki

In a message dated 06/08/2003 5:49:44 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

GlassArtist@... writes:

> I have never been more frustrated in my life as I have been in the last 5

> or

> 6 weeks since my diagnosis. The things my doctor and nutritionist told me

> seem to be the direct opposite of what everyone here (who actually has

> diabetes) does or thinks. Right now I'm on the verge of tears because I

> know I ate too much today and just to see what happens, I tested about 2

> hours after eating this morning and my BG's went up over 60 points! Is that

> a lot? My morning meal was a total of 16 grams of carbs. I don't even

> know... I feel so stupid about everything. I am very upset that there is

> this vast diabetic population who don't think doctors have a clue and why

> don't doctors know more about how this disease should be handled? If I had

> never joined a support group for diabetes, what would my future be holding

> for me by just listening to my doctor? I'm very upset right now. Sorry to

> be that way but I want to manage this disease yet not feel like I can never

> eat any of the foods I like. It makes me so depressed.

>

> D.

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I remember the feelings you're talking about well. I found out I was

diabetic when I went into the ER thinking I was having a heart

attack. Hours and hours after I arrived (and I don't want to suggest they

didn't take me seriously or treat me well, 'cause they were great, and me

with no health insurance), the doctor came into the treatment room and told

me that, as far as he could tell, my heart was fine. He'd have them stress

test it in the morning, but he was pretty confident I hadn't had a

" myocardial incident " . (Don't you love doctor-speak?) However, my

diabetes and hypertension -- those were completely out of control.

" My *what*? " I said? I had a suspicion about the hypertension, but not the

diabetes.

I laid in the bed and cried for at least an hour.

I love good food, and I have a fierce sweet tooth (and always have). I

didn't know what I was more upset about -- that I was doomed (and I thought

then that diabetic = doomed to blindness, limb loss and kidney failure) or

that I could never have chocolate or cheesecake or any of the sweet things

I loved ever again. I've often said (and still believe) that life is too

short to eat bad food.

I've been obese since puberty, and have been on every diet there is out

there, including Atkins (which, in the early 70's, gave me some serious

health problems, though I did lose weight. I hear they've improved it to

reduce the problems I had.). I thought I " knew " what diet/diabetic eating

meant, and I was in despair.

I found the diabetes education class to be very helpful, though it was also

pretty much the " bad " news about what I could eat. (1/3 cup of

rice? Ghaaa! I *love* rice, and Chinese cooking is one of my hobbies!

) The diabetes educator also had what was, for me, a sanity saving piece

of wisdom. " You can have just about anything, " she said. " Even chocolate,

ice cream, all of the things you used to love. You just can't have very

*much* of them, or your sugar will be too high. "

I can't tell you how much that has meant to me. When the cravings are

driving me nuts, I know that I can have a piece of chocolate (I love those

little tiny peanut butter cups) or a bite of cheesecake (bless my boyfriend

for throwing himself on the *rest* of the piece to save me) or half a cup

of ice cream. Just knowing that I *can* have something that I love

actually helps me crave it less. Your mileage may vary, of course. It

helps to have someone else to finish the serving in case you're feeling too

weak to resist (often a problem for me -- I have wonderful non-diabetic

friends who are happy to eat the rest of whatever).

My BG isn't at non-diabetic levels (though it's been improving since I

started exercising regularly), but I'm not insulin dependent and I'm on

minimal medication (Glucophage 500 mg 2 x day, right now). I feel better

than I've felt for most of my life. My depression (which persevered even

in the face of medication) has mostly lifted. My vision has actually

improved (the doctor remarked that at 420, I was basically looking through

sugar water - I had thought it just meant that my bifocals weren't strong

enough any more).

Don't feel stupid or intimidated by this group. I've only recently joined

myself, but the seem to be basically nice, well-informed (if perhaps a

tetch fanatical) folks. I joined for information and support, and I feel

that is very available here.

You don't have to change the way you eat over night -- while diabetes does

progressive damage, in the overall scheme of things it's going to be okay

if it takes you a while to adjust your lifestyle. Your BG is going to

vary, sometimes based on what you eat, but also on your activity level,

your state of overall health, stress, lack of sleep -- you're in the

learning period. With time and testing you'll start to get a feel for what

affects you how, and how to walk the line that lets you be comfortable

while keeping your BG in reasonable levels.

Do talk to your doctor; one of the most valuable things you can do is

educate yourself so that you can be an informed health care consumer. Ask

him/her questions about the reactions you have and what you can do to

manage your diabetes. In my experience with health care professionals

(growing up in a medical family, working as a librarian in a hospital) they

are generally thrilled when a patient takes a proactive role in their own

well-being.

It's okay to be frustrated, angry, depressed -- just don't let it make you

give up. You can do it -- if I can, anyone can!

((with a supportive hug))

Jae

T2 and learning to love my veggies

[Guest guest]

The reason that your type 1 friend had terrible hypos was that she didn't

lower her insulin dosage when she lowered her carbs. No wonder she went low!

See if you can get her to read Bernstein. And see if you can get her to join

this list.

Vicki, who eats a moderate carb diet and uses insulin, last A1C 5.6

In a message dated 06/09/2003 12:43:55 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

chumley7@... writes:

> have a good friend with

> whom I shared my story; she is a longtime T1 really out of control.

> She talked about this to her endo, who let her try low-carbing.

> Bottom line: she had some terrible hypos and had to stop. What worked

> for me was dangerous for her.

[Guest guest]

,

My heart goes out to you. I see you have lready gotten some sage

advice from others. I don't post a whole lot, but I read everything

on this list faithfully now, for reasons that have to do with your

issues. Here's why.

I was diagnosed T2 only last July. My doc sent me to a Certified

Diabetic Educator (CDE) who gave me the classic ADA education. I was

scared plenty and, being an obsessive-compulsive type, I followed the

ADA plan religiously and tested according to the plan. My BGs never

improved one iota! In fact, they swung wildly around.

Now, my primary care doc is (otherwise) a great doc. I have (like

some others here) several other chronic conditions, including

tachycardia, GERD, IBS, etc.; his management of my conditions has

done wonders for me and I trust him implicitly. But, he takes a very

doctrinnaire ADA approach to diabetes diet. He also has never seen

any need for me to have my eyes checked (I have increasing blurry

vision - I will be seeing an eye doc soon) or my feet checked. He

thinks the CDE knows diabetes best.

In desperation, I started looking into alternatives and found the

Bernstein book, then the Wolfgang Lutz book ( " Life Without Bread " )

and started low-carbing, with immediate improvement in BGs. Still had

odd anomalous things happen, though, but I was fortunate to find this

e-list. I learned a great deal from the list, added it to what I

learned from Bernstein & Lutz & , by then, Atkins, and I got my BGs

under control. A month later, I had lab work, HBA1c, lipids, etc.

When my doc saw the results, he was astounded. Not only was my BG

coming down into a decent range, my lipids (which had been very bad)

were ALL excellent! He attributed it all to Actos & Metformin (after

only a few months on them!). When I told him about low-carbing, he

totally dismissed it as impossible. It was at that point that I

realized I cannot trust him to manage my diabetes - I have to do it

myself.

Three months later, my HBA1c was down to 5.8! Low-carbing works, I am

certain, FOR ME. But, each person is different. If you listen to

nothing else that the folks on this e-list say, listen to them when

they say YMMV! It is the absolute truth. I have a good friend with

whom I shared my story; she is a longtime T1 really out of control.

She talked about this to her endo, who let her try low-carbing.

Bottom line: she had some terrible hypos and had to stop. What worked

for me was dangerous for her. So, test, test, test, as you experiment

with your own diabetes in the lab of your own body, to find out what

really works for you. We are all wrestling with diabetes " gorillas, "

we can tell you a lot about gorilla-wrestling, but no one here has

ever met YOUR gorilla. It is ultimately up to you. We will help as we

may, but your fight is yours, just as mine is mine.

You can win. Hang in there.

best wishes,

Denis

> I have never been more frustrated in my life as I have been in the

last 5 or

> 6 weeks since my diagnosis. The things my doctor and nutritionist

told me

> seem to be the direct opposite of what everyone here (who actually

has

> diabetes) does or thinks. Right now I'm on the verge of tears

because I

> know I ate too much today and just to see what happens, I tested

about 2

> hours after eating this morning and my BG's went up over 60

points! Is that

> a lot? My morning meal was a total of 16 grams of carbs. I don't

even

> know... I feel so stupid about everything. I am very upset that

there is

> this vast diabetic population who don't think doctors have a clue

and why

> don't doctors know more about how this disease should be handled?

If I had

> never joined a support group for diabetes, what would my future be

holding

> for me by just listening to my doctor? I'm very upset right now.

Sorry to

> be that way but I want to manage this disease yet not feel like I

can never

> eat any of the foods I like. It makes me so depressed.

>

> D.

[Guest guest]

Denis, this is another example of doctors not knowing how to manage diabetes,

although one would certainly think that an endo would know better.

You said your friend was a type 1 with really poor control. That means that

her insulin dosage is wrong. Certainly her endo should have been able to help

her make appropriate corrections till her " terrible BGs " improved.

Diabetes is essentially a carbohydrate metabolizing problem. This is true

for both type 1s and 2s. For a type 1, it makes sense that if you're cutting

carbs, you cut the amount of insulin you're taking. Again, I must reiterate,

her hypos were the result of poor diabetic education by her endo, who certainly

should have known better.

If she's still having problems, please get her to join this list. Or she

could contact me. personally. It really pains me when diabetics have poor

control

because they - or their doctors - don't know how to make it better when good

control is really within reach. It just takes knowledge and persistence.

Vicki

In a message dated 06/09/2003 12:43:55 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

chumley7@... writes:

> have a good friend with

> whom I shared my story; she is a longtime T1 really out of control.

> She talked about this to her endo, who let her try low-carbing.

> Bottom line: she had some terrible hypos and had to stop. What worked

> for me was dangerous for her.

[Guest guest]

It could be as you suggest; I don't know. I have tried to get her

to join this list. I also referred her to Bernstein. Great minds...

Denis

> The reason that your type 1 friend had terrible hypos was that she

didn't

> lower her insulin dosage when she lowered her carbs. No wonder she

went low!

>

> See if you can get her to read Bernstein. And see if you can get

her to join

> this list.

> Vicki, who eats a moderate carb diet and uses insulin, last A1C 5.6

>

> In a message dated 06/09/2003 12:43:55 PM US Mountain Standard

Time,

> chumley7@p... writes:

>

>

> > have a good friend with

> > whom I shared my story; she is a longtime T1 really out of

control.

> > She talked about this to her endo, who let her try low-carbing.

> > Bottom line: she had some terrible hypos and had to stop. What

worked

> > for me was dangerous for her.

>

>

>

>