Re: efalex and eye q

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam!

I found it's not only very important to know which supplements to

try -but also to know when it's important to try... stopping.

I found great success in increases on my 6 1/2 year old son

Tanner's " imaginative " speech and play when I put Tanner on carn-

aware and carnosine powder as I've posted here. I kept Tanner on a

combo of the EFAs and the carnosine powders for months (either carn-

aware, or pure carnosine powder -or both mixed together. I found

the first and last to be the best) After about 6 months however -I

started to notice a change in Tanner's fluency -which I know Liz

Dunn also questioned about after she started her son who did well on

the EFAs on the carnosine. This made me wonder.

Due to this -I tried stopping supplements. I first tried stopping

Tanner's EFAs while continuing the carn aware/carnosine. That

didn't last for more than a day each time I tried -the fluency

problem -as well as Tanner's articulation grew noticeably worse. As

of yet -I can not take Tanner off EFAs (Not that I want to take him

off -I just try things) I then tried stopping the carnosine and

carn-aware without stopping the EFAs. It's been a few weeks and

today I am happy to report that incredibly -Tanner seems to have had

another surge -his speech has been clear and articulate, and his

syntax is perfect -with longer sentences and quicker speaking. Just

this morning as I dropped Tanner and his brother off at the bus -

Tanner who was getting out of the car looked back at me to quickly

say (perfectly) " Mommy don't forget you have to come to my school

today for my class trip "

Isn't it amazing when our kids say stuff like that -the auto pilot

side is able to calmly say " OK " while the rest of you is repeating

the sentence over and over in our heads (or word for those of you

with younger kids) and doing cartwheels and a cheer inside?!

I'm not saying that I wouldn't try putting Tanner back on the carn-

aware/carnosine powder again. I do believe it helped him. I just

don't know enough about why it's working, what is the relationship

between carnosine and the EFAs as to why it works, if perhaps he has

enough of it for now -and I really have no idea why he got a surge

when I took him off -but you know how much we love those surges!!

About the EFAs -once again brand name does not matter, brand name

does not matter, brand name does not matter, brand name does not

matter, did I tell you guys that brand name does not matter?

What matters when it comes to EFAs are only three things in my

opinion:

Formula

Dosage

Quality of the oils.

I will use the following examples with the brand name ProEFA since

that's the formula/dosage that seems to work the best for most of us

(Efalex and EyeQ are similar Omega 3/6 formulas that also have good

reports) For any brand name of Omega 3/6 formula -you could make

the same formula by mixing together fish oil and either primrose or

borage seed oil if you prefer -or as found -another brand

name with a similar formula (and I hope also a good quality)

If you mix two fish oils together which is fine if you know why you

are doing that: Look at the amount of DHA, EPA (Omega 3) and the

amount of GLA (Omega 6) and then add them all together to see what

formula and dosage you now have is. So for those of you that ask -

you can mix any brand names together you would like -however what

you could change is the three things above (dosage, formula and

*quality (*if one of the companies you start using has rancid oils

which is not uncommon when it comes to fish oils -so make sure all

brands you use are pure) Keep in mind in anecdotal feedback done by

parents from all over through CHERAB -that pure Omega 3 or pure

Omega 6 either showed no results -or very little results in almost

all cases. Pure Omega 3 would include pure cod liver oil, fish oil,

flax seed oil without any Omega 6. So even though there is only a

small amount of GLA (Omega 6) in the formulas we found to be

successful -GLA appears to be important to be there for some

reason. GLA has anti-inflammatory properties which perhaps enable

to DHA and EPA to get to where it's needed in the brain?

Adding extra EPA or DHA is different when you talk about mixing

oils. Adding an oil high in one of these to the basic ProEFA

formula EPA (Omega 3 such as ProEPA) or high in DHA (Omega 3 such

as ProDHA) will raise the EPA or the DHA higher in the formula -and

also raise the Omega 3 to Omega 6 slightly higher as well. With

your child this may be a good thing -or not a good thing -it depends

if you raise the DHA or the EPA. Adding primrose (Omega 6) or

borage seed oil (Omega 6) to the basic ProEFA formula will raise the

Omega 6 -which most of us found not to be a good thing for our

children.

Most of us found that raising the EPA slightly higher than the DHA

over the basic ProEFA formula was effective (a handful find raising

the DHA more to be better) -but most of us do this over time as

Deborah points out -not all at once. What this means is that

unfortunately -the formula most of us found to be the best over time

you can not yet purchase as a brand name -you have to

create...however fortionatly the basic Omega 3/6 brand name

formula's seem to work to start for almost all children (Efalex,

ProEFA and EyeQ)

Dosage of one capsule a day ProEFA that at the lowest dosage appears

to be the best -

148 mg EPA

99 mg DHA

40 mg GLA

Here is what many of us have found to be the best plan

anecdotally...start with the basic formula, one ProEFA a day, we

saw surges in a few days to three weeks which continued for months -

we then reached a plateau after around 6 months. At this point we

raised the dosage to two capsules of ProEFA a day and once again had

those surges which lasted again for months. When we reached the

next plateau after around a year, instead of going to three a day -

we squeezed 1/2 to one capsule of ProEPA into the 2 capsules of

ProEFA and for almost all of us that try -that created another surge.

Over time -you may raise the dosage up higher -and you may slightly

change the formula to raise the Omega 3 over the Omega 6 ratio -but

you need to know your own child, keep track of his progress through

both your own observations and that of the professionals -with the

advice of your child's doctor -to know what is best for him/her.

Here is an archived cut and paste message of mine -there are many

more in the archives both here -as well as more information at

http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet

http://www.speechville.com

" in our group numerous children were on pure Omega 3 with little to

no results and then the same children responded amazingly well

within one to three weeks when given instead a formula with Omega 3

(DHA and EPA) and a " small " amount of Omega 6 (borage or primrose

oil)

The CHERAB Foundation first did a parent feedback which compared

pure Omega 3 (like cod live oil) to Omega 3/6 formulas (like ProEFA

or Efalex) Check the archives -most of the parents that used the cod

liver oil saw little to no difference -and then as stated above had

moderate to dramatic changes in one to three weeks when switched to

(or just started on) the Omega 3/6 formula. My son Tanner was one

of them. Before I knew the difference I just called all the (pure)

fish oil capsules I tried the " reject " oils and wondered to all why

they didn't work and Efalex or ProEFA (or EyeQ) did.

Why the changes? Only future research will tell. For now -I just

want all to know that if one doesn't work (like pure fish oil) or

work for long -switch to the formula that works for most of us.

Basic formula no matter what fish/borage or primrose formula you use

or make by combining oils:

EPA -150 to 250

DHA 100

GLA 50

If you raise the dosages -the ratio should still stay around the

same.

I believe this is important to note since most that " try " cod liver

oil or another fish oil that doesn't have Omega 6 may find that fish

oil doesn't " work " My point is that formula (dosage and quality)

are all that is important -and no matter what any expert believe in

theory -you can not argue with what we as parents see in our

children in reality.

As always -The proof is in the pudding. "

Homework -go watch Lorenzo's Oil.

=====

[Guest guest]

: You never fail to impress me with all of your knowledge/experience

and your help. I think we all weigh the supplement issues, which ones to

use, when to increase or decrease, what works, etc. So, these messages

help all of us, not just the person asking the question, so thanks!

I have to ask, if you can remember with Tanner, how his articulation was

when his language/vocabulary was coming in, when it was just being

developed. With (3 yrs. old) he is speaking more and more, but

now....I am noticing that his articulation is really bad. Don't get the

wrong impression either, I am thrilled that he is verbal, but now I worry

about if he will ever be understood? Is this a typical phase for our

apraxic kids? Does this develop through time/therapy also?

And the sentence that Tanner told you about school, I think I almost sobbed

reading it. Is that incredible? I still sit here, thinking that will

never happen for us. Way to go!

Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi - you are so right - quality is always a concern and of

course something everyone should research before giving anything to

their child:

" SISU products are guaranteed to comply with Canadian Good

Manufacturing Practices - quality control standards that are among

the highest in the world. "

For a copy of the quality control standards, visit the following link:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-

dgpsa/inspectorate/gmp_guidelines_2002_entire_e.html#reg

us

> (Efalex and EyeQ are similar Omega 3/6 formulas that also have good

> reports) For any brand name of Omega 3/6 formula -you could make

> the same formula by mixing together fish oil and either primrose or

> borage seed oil if you prefer -or as found -another brand

> name with a similar formula (and I hope also a good quality)

[Guest guest]

Ok, I'm not lisa, but I thought I'd jump in here and say that

articulation is the big problem for the verbal apraxic children.

We've been working for months on saying S and F in words. Though he

can do it in isolation and can (when reminded) begin words with it,

words almost never come out pronounced correctly. I think most would

agree that articulation problems for our kids vary, as well. My son

is quite understandable despite some artic problems, but it hasn't

always been that way. So, in short, it is a normal progression in

the evolution of speech.

Let me make one other point - and I hope others can speak to this as

well - my son " taught himself " to talk. Before we were taken for ST,

he began talking and he replaced sounds he couldn't blend at the time

(S, F, Z, Th) with W & Y. Now, it's habitual and VERY difficult to

break. It's like learning to type by hunting and pecking and then

being taught to touch-type - VERY hard to undo " bad learning " . Any

thoughts? I can say that there are approximations out there that are

more easily replaced with the correct sound. For instance, rather

than " Yock " for Sock, " Hock " for Sock. I would say to help the child

during this artic problem create easily manipulated replacements.

Hope this makes sense. Any STs out there want to comment?

Hope this helps - Marina

> : You never fail to impress me with all of your

knowledge/experience

> and your help. I think we all weigh the supplement issues, which

ones to

> use, when to increase or decrease, what works, etc. So, these

messages

> help all of us, not just the person asking the question, so thanks!

>

> I have to ask, if you can remember with Tanner, how his

articulation was

> when his language/vocabulary was coming in, when it was just being

> developed. With (3 yrs. old) he is speaking more and

more, but

> now....I am noticing that his articulation is really bad. Don't

get the

> wrong impression either, I am thrilled that he is verbal, but now I

worry

> about if he will ever be understood? Is this a typical phase for

our

> apraxic kids? Does this develop through time/therapy also?

> And the sentence that Tanner told you about school, I think I

almost sobbed

> reading it. Is that incredible? I still sit here, thinking that

will

> never happen for us. Way to go!

>

> Kim