Re: bacterial vaginosis

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

I too spent a good 2 years unsuccessfully treating bacterial vaginosis. The

problem is that doctors will treat even the smallest amount of clue cells

found under the microscope if the patient has symptoms. It wasnt until I

found a doctor that told me that the recurrant vaginosis was due to ph

imbalance caused by hormone insufficiancy in the vagina that I found relief.

I think that there are many women out there with vaginitis and vaginosis

that require traditional treatment, but if it is not getting better then

doctors should be looking for an underlying cause. Dermatitis, LS, vulvar

vestibulitis, atrophic vaginitis are all things that could cause symptoms of

infection and imbalance the ph and flora enough to show some bacterial cells

under the microscope but be what doctors always called a " low grade "

infection when they were treating me.

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

It wasnt until I found a doctor that told me that the recurrant vaginosis was due to ph imbalance caused by hormone insufficiancy in the vagina that I found relief.

-- You've probably already posted about it, but if so, i can't remember

what you said! So. . . . . what was your hormone situation and how was it

balanced to improve your BV problems?

Hollis

[Guest guest]

HI misspriss, *smile*

Hon I'd have my partner take those meds too if the BV keeps returning... it's the only thing that worked for me the few times I had one.

Dee~

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Have you read the information about people having this

condition because of some inability to process choline

properly?

I don't have any anwers but it occurs to me that if

one could find out through research or discovery of

something else that may be wrong with them, it would

at least be a clue. Do you have any other health

nuisances or problems. It is just that sometimes

people have to actually look into something different

in order to solve their problems.

Some of the women on the BV group have talked about

how they have gluten sensitivity which among many

other terrible things, causes nutritional malfunctions

which may be what BV is since it seems to respond to

healthy diets which may include gluten free. I know at

least one person who used to be there who claimed that

a gluten and dairy free diet solved the problem for

her.

Although I was never diagnosed with BV I was having

quite a lot of odor problems. When I read the stuff

about choline and tried to stop eating the major foods

that contain lots of choline (soy, liver, meat, eggs)

(soy was the main one for me because I was eating a

lot of it) my problem went totally away. There is no

doubt as I have tried it again and again.

Anyway, you might check into getting a stool test for

gluten sensitivity and also try to stop eating those

things for awhile along with treatment to see if you

can control it.

Arline

--- misspriss_mel wrote:

> I was just wondering if there is anyone else who has

> been unsuccessful

> in treating this condition. I have gone to the doc,

> and taken flagyl,

> and the other stuff that is inserted into the

> vagina, but it comes

> back. I have found some relief with daily salt water

> baths. But if I go

> a few days without it comes back. Nothing helps. I

> am so tried of

> dealing with this. And I do not want to go back to

> the doc again just

> to get medication that only helps temporarily. If

> anybody has any

> ideas, or has heard of anything that can get rid of

> this please help.

> After having to go back to the doc, he said he had

> never had anyone who

> did not respond to the meds before. So he made me

> feel like a freak.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

The doctor said he'd never heard of anyone not

responding to the medication before? All I can say is,

he must not treat many women! The official cure rate

for MetroGel is a mere 75%, with a recurrence rate of

up to 80 percent in nine months. I've never had a bit

of success with Flagyl or MetroGel, only

Cleosin.....and the BV always comes back the minute I

stop using HRT.

Here's a link for a article about a study using

Vitamin C as a suppository for BV.

http://www.npicenter.com/anm/anmviewer.asp?a=10963 & print=yes

However, I have to wonder if it would give me the same

intense pain and burning I experienced after being

prescribed a product called Aci-Gel.

Zig

[Guest guest]

HI Zig.

I sure agree with you about how estrogen really does keep that genital area in good health for many reasons and one important one is keeping a normal pH level for us (more acidic) and that can help keep away bacterial infections. Estrogen works at the cellular level from the inside out so it really gets to the root of things.

So if its not some infectious pathogen, estrogen sure can help but many are infectious and doctors try to suggest its not passable, which is a lot of baloney to me since males often don't have symptoms but can be carriers especially if a woman is chronic (as long as it's not lack of E) .... OR as Arline suggested and it makes sense that food can give the fishy odor but I sort of doubt you'd have the discharge or irritation (vaginitis) along with it if the odor were food based. Yes you'd have the odor but not the other symptoms I would think....

And with the Vitamin C..... in that article you sent,

http://www.npicenter.com/anm/anmviewer.asp?a=10963 & print=yes

it said that the pH levels normalized with it, and it showed less bacteria, etc.etc. all good signs it seems, but the last line in that one paragraph threw me when it seemed to suggest 'both' groups (the placebo as well) still had the discharge and itching. HUH?

Quote

''There were no significant differences between groups with respect to vaginal itching and discharge.''

Well a lotta good that'd do, eh? *groan*....

I too tried the Aci Gel once (that's used for yeast infections to restore pH levels) and It sure didn't do anything for me, didn't really excoriate me but I didn't like it at all. Gimmie the Estrogen everytime if it's for that reason.

Dee~

Re: bacterial vaginosis

The doctor said he'd never heard of anyone notresponding to the medication before? All I can say is,he must not treat many women! The official cure ratefor MetroGel is a mere 75%, with a recurrence rate ofup to 80 percent in nine months. I've never had a bitof success with Flagyl or MetroGel, onlyCleosin.....and the BV always comes back the minute Istop using HRT. Here's a link for a article about a study usingVitamin C as a suppository for BV.http://www.npicenter.com/anm/anmviewer.asp?a=10963 & print=yesHowever, I have to wonder if it would give me the sameintense pain and burning I experienced after beingprescribed a product called Aci-Gel.Zig

[Guest guest]

I believe that this can be transmitted back and forth between sexual

partners. Is your partner being treated at the same time you are in order

to insure that you are both cleared up before you begin relations again?

Also, sometimes this is related to a vaginal pH imbalance. This imbalance

is often caused by hormones being out of balance. Have you had hormone

levels checked for estrogen, etc.? It may be that it keeps coming back

because the pH stays out of balance because the hormones are out of balance.

Just a few thoughts

Dusty

bacterial vaginosis

I was just wondering if there is anyone else who has been unsuccessful

in treating this condition. I have gone to the doc, and taken flagyl,

and the other stuff that is inserted into the vagina, but it comes

back. I have found some relief with daily salt water baths. But if I go

a few days without it comes back. Nothing helps. I am so tried of

dealing with this. And I do not want to go back to the doc again just

to get medication that only helps temporarily. If anybody has any

ideas, or has heard of anything that can get rid of this please help.

After having to go back to the doc, he said he had never had anyone who

did not respond to the meds before. So he made me feel like a freak.

**IF REPLYING TO THIS POST, PLEASE REMOVE ORIGINAL POST, THANKS**

Our HOME page is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisorders

to search our archives, files, articles, etc.

***

[Guest guest]

I definatly agree with you Dee, on the infections being transimitable back

and forth. I think more doctors are beginning to see this one with chronic

cases. I know that my GP tried treating both my husband and I a number of

times before I went the estrogen route. For me Estrogen and the surgery was

my answer, but I did see some improvement when my husband and I were

treated. It just came back again. I was told that uncircumsized men are

better at passing BV along too (my husband is uncircumsized).

Bunny

Reply-To: VulvarDisorders

To: <VulvarDisorders >

Subject: Re: bacterial vaginosis

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:43:58 -0500

HI Zig.

I sure agree with you about how estrogen really does keep that genital area

in good health for many reasons and one important one is keeping a normal pH

level for us (more acidic) and that can help keep away bacterial infections.

Estrogen works at the cellular level from the inside out so it really

gets to the root of things.

So if its not some infectious pathogen, estrogen sure can help but many are

infectious and doctors try to suggest its not passable, which is a lot of

baloney to me since males often don't have symptoms but can be carriers

especially if a woman is chronic (as long as it's not lack of E) .... OR as

Arline suggested and it makes sense that food can give the fishy odor but I

sort of doubt you'd have the discharge or irritation (vaginitis) along with

it if the odor were food based. Yes you'd have the odor but not the other

symptoms I would think....

And with the Vitamin C..... in that article you sent,

http://www.npicenter.com/anm/anmviewer.asp?a=10963 & print=yes

it said that the pH levels normalized with it, and it showed less bacteria,

etc.etc. all good signs it seems, but the last line in that one paragraph

threw me when it seemed to suggest 'both' groups (the placebo as well) still

had the discharge and itching. HUH?

Quote

''There were no significant differences between groups with respect to

vaginal itching and discharge.''

Well a lotta good that'd do, eh? *groan*....

I too tried the Aci Gel once (that's used for yeast infections to restore pH

levels) and It sure didn't do anything for me, didn't really excoriate me

but I didn't like it at all. Gimmie the Estrogen everytime if it's for that

reason.

Dee~

Re: bacterial vaginosis

The doctor said he'd never heard of anyone not

responding to the medication before? All I can say is,

he must not treat many women! The official cure rate

for MetroGel is a mere 75%, with a recurrence rate of

up to 80 percent in nine months. I've never had a bit

of success with Flagyl or MetroGel, only

Cleosin.....and the BV always comes back the minute I

stop using HRT.

Here's a link for a article about a study using

Vitamin C as a suppository for BV.

http://www.npicenter.com/anm/anmviewer.asp?a=10963 & print=yes

However, I have to wonder if it would give me the same

intense pain and burning I experienced after being

prescribed a product called Aci-Gel.

Zig

**IF REPLYING TO THIS POST, PLEASE REMOVE ORIGINAL POST, THANKS**

Our HOME page is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisorders

to search our archives, files, articles, etc.

***

[Guest guest]

The doctor treating me with estrace believed in a more localized (vaginal)

hormone imbalance, but I have been tested for hormone insuficiancy and they

found it to be in the low end of normal range.

Bunny

From: Zdamask@...

Reply-To: VulvarDisorders

To: VulvarDisorders

Subject: Re: bacterial vaginosis

Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:17:58 EST

In a message dated 3/21/2006 1:53:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,

christina_bunny@... writes:

> It wasnt until I

> found a doctor that told me that the recurrant vaginosis was due to ph

> imbalance caused by hormone insufficiancy in the vagina that I found

relief.

>

-- You've probably already posted about it, but if so, i can't

remember

what you said! So. . . . . what was your hormone situation and how was it

balanced to improve your BV problems?

Hollis

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

HI ,

My ex husband too was not circumsized. And I too have read they can harbour more germs, even if well washed and hygenically clean. (more cervical infections too) .... I have to smile thinking back as I'd never seen a Willy that was circumsized 'till after my divorce *chuckle* and what a difference, LOL .. Oh well live & learn but talk about naieve, (that was long ago) *smile*.

But as far as passing on some infections I think many of them are harbored within the prelubrication,semen or ejaculate (not just the foreskin) and why both partners need treatment if its a chronic returning situation with a bacterial infection.

BUT...... that's also only IF ones estrogen levels are fine and it still returns. In other words like you if that estrogen component is fine and it's still returning, it likely is something passable (in my opinion). As many times just keeping the estrogen levels correct alone will prevent those Bacterial infections and so that must be addressed first to see if that is the problem.

Just my experience anyway.

Dee~

[Guest guest]

Hi Dee, I just had to add my two cents to these comments! My husband was also uncircumcised at the time we were married and several years later we began passing yeast infections back and forth. It seemed as though one of us was always treating an "itch"...LOL! My gyno had me bring hubby in for a discussion and persuaded him to get circumcised, which she insisted would virtually eliminate the problem. He was very willing and admitted he wished he had been done ever since he discovered the difference as a child. Fortunately our insurance covered it, pain was minimal, and recovery only put him "out of commission" for two weeks! Voila! No more yeast infections! However, at the same time, my gyno had also urged me to start wearing skirts without underpants as often as possible, so perhaps both precautions contributed to the success!DeeTroll

wrote: HI , My ex husband too was not circumsized. And I too have read they can harbour more germs, even if well washed and hygenically clean. (more cervical infections too) .... I have to smile thinking back as I'd never seen a Willy that was circumsized 'till after my divorce *chuckle* and what a difference, LOL .. Oh well live & learn but talk about naieve, (that was long ago) *smile*. But as far as passing on some infections I think many of them are harbored within the prelubrication,semen or ejaculate (not just the foreskin) and why both partners need treatment if its a chronic returning situation with a bacterial infection.

BUT...... that's also only IF ones estrogen levels are fine and it still returns. In other words like you if that estrogen component is fine and it's still returning, it likely is something passable (in my opinion). As many times just keeping the estrogen levels correct alone will prevent those Bacterial infections and so that must be addressed first to see if that is the problem. Just my experience anyway. Dee~

New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[Guest guest]

Oh, I forgot to mention, sex was SOOOO MUCH BETTER for both of us after his circumcision, aside from the absence of yeast infections. Like most women, I think, I much prefer the looks, feel, and cleanliness of the circumcised penis. W wrote: Hi Dee, I just had to add my two cents to these comments! My husband was also uncircumcised at the time we were married and several years later we began passing yeast infections back and forth. It seemed as though one of us was always treating an "itch"...LOL! My gyno had me bring hubby in for a discussion and persuaded him to get circumcised, which she insisted would virtually eliminate the problem. He was very willing and admitted he wished he had been done ever since he discovered the

difference as a child. Fortunately our insurance covered it, pain was minimal, and recovery only put him "out of commission" for two weeks! Voila! No more yeast infections! However, at the same time, my gyno had also urged me to start wearing skirts without underpants as often as possible, so perhaps both precautions contributed to the success!DeeTroll wrote: HI , My ex husband too was not circumsized. And I too have read they can harbour more germs, even if well washed and hygenically clean. (more cervical infections too) .... I have to smile thinking back as I'd never seen a Willy that was circumsized 'till after my divorce *chuckle* and what a difference, LOL .. Oh well live & learn but talk about naieve, (that was long

ago) *smile*. But as far as passing on some infections I think many of them are harbored within the prelubrication,semen or ejaculate (not just the foreskin) and why both partners need treatment if its a chronic returning situation with a bacterial infection. BUT...... that's also only IF ones estrogen levels are fine and it still returns. In other words like you if that estrogen component is fine and it's still returning, it likely is something passable (in my opinion). As many times just keeping the estrogen levels correct alone will prevent those Bacterial infections and so that must be addressed first to see if that is the problem. Just my experience anyway. Dee~ New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.

[Guest guest]

I don't get it, when it's hard it doesn't look any different than an

uncircumcised one, at least that's my experience, and how could it feel

different sexually?? I mean the vast majority of men in the world are NOT

circumcised, Anne

--On Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:08 PM -0800 W

wrote:

> Oh, I forgot to mention, sex was SOOOO MUCH BETTER for both of us after

> his circumcision, aside from the absence of yeast infections. Like most

> women, I think, I much prefer the looks, feel, and cleanliness of the

> circumcised penis.

>

> W wrote:

>

>

> Hi Dee,

>

> I just had to add my two cents to these comments! My husband was also

> uncircumcised at the time we were married and several years later we

> began passing yeast infections back and forth. It seemed as though one

> of us was always treating an " itch " ...LOL! My gyno had me bring hubby in

> for a discussion and persuaded him to get circumcised, which she insisted

> would virtually eliminate the problem. He was very willing and admitted

> he wished he had been done ever since he discovered the difference as a

> child. Fortunately our insurance covered it, pain was minimal, and

> recovery only put him " out of commission " for two weeks! Voila! No more

> yeast infections! However, at the same time, my gyno had also urged me

> to start wearing skirts without underpants as often as possible, so

> perhaps both precautions contributed to the success!

>

> DeeTroll wrote:

>

>

> HI ,

>

> My ex husband too was not circumsized. And I too have read they can

> harbour more germs, even if well washed and hygenically clean. (more

> cervical infections too) .... I have to smile thinking back as I'd never

> seen a Willy that was circumsized 'till after my divorce *chuckle* and

> what a difference, LOL .. Oh well live & learn but talk about naieve,

> (that was long ago) *smile*.

>

> But as far as passing on some infections I think many of them are

> harbored within the prelubrication,semen or ejaculate (not just the

> foreskin) and why both partners need treatment if its a chronic returning

> situation with a bacterial infection.

>

> BUT...... that's also only IF ones estrogen levels are fine and it still

> returns. In other words like you if that estrogen component is fine and

> it's still returning, it likely is something passable (in my opinion).

> As many times just keeping the estrogen levels correct alone will prevent

> those Bacterial infections and so that must be addressed first to see if

> that is the problem.

>

> Just my experience anyway.

>

> Dee~

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and

> save big.

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for

> low, low rates.

>

> **IF REPLYING TO THIS POST, PLEASE REMOVE ORIGINAL POST, THANKS**

>

> Our HOME page is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisorders

> to search our archives, files, articles, etc.

>

> ***

[Guest guest]

T

Thought you might find this interesting. read the bottom one first, of course.

luvme

-----Original Message-----From: VulvarDisorders [mailto:VulvarDisorders ] On Behalf Of WSent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:09 AMTo: VulvarDisorders Subject: Re: bacterial vaginosisOh, I forgot to mention, sex was SOOOO MUCH BETTER for both of us after his circumcision, aside from the absence of yeast infections. Like most women, I think, I much prefer the looks, feel, and cleanliness of the circumcised penis. W wrote:

Hi Dee,

I just had to add my two cents to these comments! My husband was also uncircumcised at the time we were married and several years later we began passing yeast infections back and forth. It seemed as though one of us was always treating an "itch"...LOL! My gyno had me bring hubby in for a discussion and persuaded him to get circumcised, which she insisted would virtually eliminate the problem. He was very willing and admitted he wished he had been done ever since he discovered the difference as a child. Fortunately our insurance covered it, pain was minimal, and recovery only put him "out of commission" for two weeks! Voila! No more yeast infections! However, at the same time, my gyno had also urged me to start wearing skirts without underpants as often as possible, so perhaps both precautions contributed to the success!

[Guest guest]

Well, the lack of loose skin on the shaft creates greater friction within the vagina. Anne Mcgee wrote: I don't get it, when it's hard it doesn't look any different than an uncircumcised one, at least that's my experience, and how could it feel different sexually?? I mean the vast majority of men in the world are NOT circumcised, Anne--> Oh, I forgot to mention, sex was SOOOO MUCH BETTER for both of us after> his circumcision, aside from the absence of yeast infections. Like most> women, I think, I much prefer the looks, feel, and cleanliness of the> circumcised penis.>> W

wrote:>>> Hi Dee,>> I just had to add my two cents to these comments! My husband was also> uncircumcised at the time we were married and several years later we> began passing yeast infections back and forth. It seemed as though one> of us was always treating an "itch"...LOL! My gyno had me bring hubby in> for a discussion and persuaded him to get circumcised, which she insisted> would virtually eliminate the problem. He was very willing and admitted> he wished he had been done ever since he discovered the difference as a> child. Fortunately our insurance covered it, pain was minimal, and> recovery only put him "out of commission" for two weeks! Voila! No more> yeast infections! However, at the same time, my gyno had also urged me> to start wearing skirts without underpants as often as possible, so> perhaps both precautions

contributed to the success!>> DeeTroll wrote:>>> HI , >> My ex husband too was not circumsized. And I too have read they can> harbour more germs, even if well washed and hygenically clean. (more> cervical infections too) .... I have to smile thinking back as I'd never> seen a Willy that was circumsized 'till after my divorce *chuckle* and> what a difference, LOL .. Oh well live & learn but talk about naieve,> (that was long ago) *smile*.>> But as far as passing on some infections I think many of them are> harbored within the prelubrication,semen or ejaculate (not just the> foreskin) and why both partners need treatment if its a chronic returning> situation with a bacterial infection.>> BUT...... that's also only IF ones estrogen levels are fine and it still>

returns. In other words like you if that estrogen component is fine and> it's still returning, it likely is something passable (in my opinion).> As many times just keeping the estrogen levels correct alone will prevent> those Bacterial infections and so that must be addressed first to see if> that is the problem.>> Just my experience anyway.>> Dee~ >>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and> save big.>>>>> __________________________________________________> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for> low, low rates.>> **IF REPLYING TO THIS POST, PLEASE REMOVE ORIGINAL POST, THANKS**>> Our HOME page is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisorders> to search our archives, files, articles, etc.>> ***

[Guest guest]

PS..... LOL

I didn't find the sex any better one way or the other (with or without circumcision) *grin* it was always good either way *chuckle* But those who are circumsized (and have been all their lives) are definitely less sensitive at least in 'my' experience. Whether that's good or not depends, LOL . Men that take forever to climax is not a pleasure to me. ha ha

Dee~

[Guest guest]

... as you said the lack of that extra skin 'does' cause greater friction but it's the extra friction that I DON'T like or want.... I need it to be deep and just stay deep and massage moreso internally, (I'm an innie girl LOL) it's the in and out movement that was always a pain for me personally. Esp. that 6 o'clock position, OW OW OW.....

HugsDee~