Efa dosage

[Guest guest]

Hi-

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but when did you all start giving

your kids 2 capsules of ProEFA, or did you go to the ProEPA? I think it may

be time, but I'm not sure. Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I started giving Mark ProEFA when he was 18 months old. I started the ProEPA

three months later. Currently, I notice, too much EPA seems to make Mark a bit

on edge, so I do only 1/2 cap, one cap every other day.

Selan

[ ] Efa dosage

Hi-

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but when did you all start giving

your kids 2 capsules of ProEFA, or did you go to the ProEPA? I think it may

be time, but I'm not sure. Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Answers from the archives:

Brand names are not important -only dosage -formula - purity. The

formula we found to be best is in the archives here and in The Late

Talker book (Co-authored by developmental pediatrician and Medical

Director for NYC Early Intervention Marilyn Agin MD)

http://www.speech-express.com/late.talker.html presented at The

First Apraxia Conference with leading PhDs in this area sponsored by

CHERAB http://www.cherab.org/news/scientific.html -and listed

below.

EFA stands for essential fatty acid -kind of an umbrella name for

all EFAs. (and for the person that asked -EPA stands for an Omega 3

PUFA found in fish called eicosapentaenoic acid -which is why we

will just all call it EPA!)

To answer your question in short -Nordic Naturals is the

manufacturer of ProEFA, ProDHA and ProEPA. ProEFA is an Omega 3 and

Omega 6 formula like Efalex and Eye Q -the only other two formulas

we hear positive feedback from in large numbers. Coromega is not

found to be as effective as the Omega 3/6 formulas -it's a pure

Omega 3) Like Coromega -ProDHA and ProEPA are both pure Omega 3

formulas. Most store bought EFAs are rancid, so be aware of this.

Oxygen and fish oil do not mix. Smell or taste (for the brave) fish

oils to compare and make sure the fish oil you use is pure. Again

most of us use ProEFA, Efalex or EyeQ -you can use others -just make

sure the company is reputable. Coramega is very pure -it's just that

it's only an Omega 3. If the oil you are giving your child smells

like rancid fish -it probably is. As you can imagine -it's hard

enough -and nasty enough -trying to give " pure " fish oil to a

toddler on a spoon!

Most of us found success with adding the ProEPA to the ProEFA -but

down the road a bit as talked about here

http://www.speech-express.com/alternative-therapy/efa-faqs.html

It is the CHERAB Foundation that found which dosage, and formula of

EFA worked the best for our children from feedbacks since 1999. You

can read more about this at http://www.cherab.org

http://www.cherab.org/news/scientific.html

Here are just two archived messages that I hope will also help you

to understand more about EFAs (in the long version). And while you

are searching for answers -ask your parents or grandparents -most of

them were given cod liver oil -a pure Omega 3 with DHA and EPA (also

now called DHA Jr. as a brand name!) as children.

" About the EFAs -once again brand name does not matter, brand name

does not matter, brand name does not matter, brand name does not

matter, did I tell you guys that brand name does not matter?

What matters when it comes to EFAs are only three things in my

opinion:

Formula

Dosage

Quality of the oils.

I will use the following examples with the brand name ProEFA since

that's the formula/dosage that seems to work the best for most of us

(Efalex and EyeQ are similar Omega 3/6 formulas that also have good

reports) For any brand name of Omega 3/6 formula -you could make

the same formula by mixing together fish oil and either primrose or

borage seed oil if you prefer -or as found -another brand

name with a similar formula (and I hope also a good quality)

If you mix two fish oils together which is fine if you know why you

are doing that: Look at the amount of DHA, EPA (Omega 3) and the

amount of GLA (Omega 6) and then add them all together to see what

formula and dosage you now have is. So for those of you that ask -

you can mix any brand names together you would like -however what

you could change is the three things above (dosage, formula and

*quality (*if one of the companies you start using has rancid oils

which is not uncommon when it comes to fish oils -so make sure all

brands you use are pure) Keep in mind in anecdotal feedback done by

parents from all over through CHERAB -that pure Omega 3 or pure

Omega 6 either showed no results -or very little results in almost

all cases. Pure Omega 3 would include pure cod liver oil, fish oil,

flax seed oil without any Omega 6. So even though there is only a

small amount of GLA (Omega 6) in the formulas we found to be

successful -GLA appears to be important to be there for some

reason. GLA has anti-inflammatory properties which perhaps enable

to DHA and EPA to get to where it's needed in the brain?

Adding extra EPA or DHA is different when you talk about mixing

oils. Adding an oil high in one of these to the basic ProEFA

formula EPA (Omega 3 such as ProEPA) or high in DHA (Omega 3 such

as ProDHA) will raise the EPA or the DHA higher in the formula -and

also raise the Omega 3 to Omega 6 slightly higher as well. With

your child this may be a good thing -or not a good thing -it depends

if you raise the DHA or the EPA. Adding primrose (Omega 6) or

borage seed oil (Omega 6) to the basic ProEFA formula will raise the

Omega 6 -which most of us found not to be a good thing for our

children.

Most of us found that raising the EPA slightly higher than the DHA

over the basic ProEFA formula was effective (a handful find raising

the DHA more to be better) -but most of us do this over time as

Deborah points out -not all at once. What this means is that

unfortunately -the formula most of us found to be the best over time

you can not yet purchase as a brand name -you have to

create...however fortionatly the basic Omega 3/6 brand name

formula's seem to work to start for almost all children (Efalex,

ProEFA and EyeQ)

Dosage of one capsule a day ProEFA that at the lowest dosage appears

to be the best -

148 mg EPA

99 mg DHA

40 mg GLA

Here is what many of us have found to be the best plan

anecdotally...start with the basic formula, one ProEFA a day, we

saw surges in a few days to three weeks which continued for months -

we then reached a plateau after around 6 months. At this point we

raised the dosage to two capsules of ProEFA a day and once again had

those surges which lasted again for months. When we reached the

next plateau after around a year, instead of going to three a day -

we squeezed 1/2 to one capsule of ProEPA into the 2 capsules of

ProEFA and for almost all of us that try -that created another surge.

Over time -you may raise the dosage up higher -and you may slightly

change the formula to raise the Omega 3 over the Omega 6 ratio -but

you need to know your own child, keep track of his progress through

both your own observations and that of the professionals -with the

advice of your child's doctor -to know what is best for him/her.

Here is an archived cut and paste message of mine -there are many

more in the archives both here -as well as more information at

http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet

http://www.speechville.com

" in our group numerous children were on pure Omega 3 with little to

no results and then the same children responded amazingly well

within one to three weeks when given instead a formula with Omega 3

(DHA and EPA) and a " small " amount of Omega 6 (borage or primrose

oil)

The CHERAB Foundation first did a parent feedback which compared

pure Omega 3 (like cod live oil) to Omega 3/6 formulas (like ProEFA

or Efalex) Check the archives -most of the parents that used the cod

liver oil saw little to no difference -and then as stated above had

moderate to dramatic changes in one to three weeks when switched to

(or just started on) the Omega 3/6 formula. My son Tanner was one

of them. Before I knew the difference I just called all the (pure)

fish oil capsules I tried the " reject " oils and wondered to all why

they didn't work and Efalex or ProEFA (or EyeQ) did.

Why the changes? Only future research will tell. For now -I just

want all to know that if one doesn't work (like pure fish oil) or

work for long -switch to the formula that works for most of us.

Basic formula no matter what fish/borage or primrose formula you use

or make by combining oils:

EPA -150 to 250

DHA 100

GLA 50

If you raise the dosages -the ratio should still stay around the

same.

I believe this is important to note since most that " try " cod liver

oil or another fish oil that doesn't have Omega 6 may find that fish

oil doesn't " work " My point is that formula (dosage and quality)

are all that is important -and no matter what any expert believe in

theory -you can not argue with what we as parents see in our

children in reality.

As always -The proof is in the pudding. "

Homework -go watch Lorenzo's Oil.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I believe the group that EFAs don't " work " for is more than 1%

and less than 10% of the children based on what we hear.

Interesting to note -we've had a dramatic rise in children with

speech disorders in the last 10 years - " 30 fold " (!!) according the

2001 Department of Education stats. According to Dr. Mark Geier via

email " my analysis of this data showed that there was a 30-fold

increase in speech disorders in children born in the mid-1980s to

the mid-1990s. This means that the numbers were 30 times higher in

children born in the mid-1990s than the mid-1980s (i.e. the actual

numbers were approximately 2 per 1,000 children born in the mid-

1980s to approximately 60 per 1,000 children born in the mid-1990 "

So in the 80's 2 out of 1000 speech disordered children were the

norm (and

maybe the ones that would not have

responded) and the 90's it rose to 60 out of 1000. Why the extra 58

children?

And don't assume " more " awareness (that's a joke!), based on what I

just wrote

here -those numbers should probably be

higher.

http://www.cherab.org/information/adhd-speech.html ...

But back to the percentage theory (that some children would have had

a " rare " speech disorder in the past as a norm -and the children in

this small group did not " get " apraxia the same way as the other

58?)

Anecdotally time

doesn't make a difference -and in most cases dosage doesn't either.

If it works -it works with the " right " omega 3/6 formula at even a

very low dosage for some reason, even if it works better at a higher

dosage. (for those of us that have kids that it works for -they'll

know what I mean) and changes are noted in a day to three weeks in

almost all

cases but a handful.

I'm not saying that it's hopeless and that the oil therapy will

never help those in that small group (never say never) - You can try

what

others have tried. Some have tried

changing formula's, (rent Lorenzo's Oil) and I would try not doing

everything at once (both fish oil and carnosine) I'm happy that

both were not available to me to start -I would have done both at

the same time too. However we don't know how one plays with the

other -and we know that one could counteract the other. You also

want to make sure that your child's diet is not big time saturated

fats -that will compromise the positive effects. Worst is french

fries and doughnuts. Try stopping the fried foods for 3 weeks -and

see if there is a change. If your child doesn't eat fast food or

fried foods lots -then that's not it either.

Here is a plan:

Keep a notebook and stop one for a few months. Then stop the

other. Any regressions with either? Then put your child back on

just the Omega 3/6 oil -notes again, any changes? Stop that and

then start the carnosine, any changes?

As we all know now most of the children respond to an Omega 3/ 6

formula similar to

100 DHA

150 -250 EPA

30-50 GLA

As far as starting on the high dosage as Efalex recommends -again

most of us don't have to do that either to see the surge in a day to

three weeks. Also the PhDs say it can take " up to 3 months " if you

want to go by what has been stated about it. Keep in mind that most

people only post if they see great results -or no results. I

recommend finding (or starting) a support group near you where you

can compare notes and talk to others parents -get your children

together etc. This way you will get to talk to those with mild

results too -going from nonverbal to more babble and eye contact -

etc.

If you see any signs in the following archived post let me know.

Rothweiler's son took the longest that I know of to see the

surge -5 weeks, but one other posted it took longer. Most of us see

it in a day to three weeks -or in a handful it doesn't appear to

work no matter how long you give it.

" From what most of us have seen and reported here -the changes on

EFAs again will be typically first be seen from one day to three

weeks (give or take) even though most of the PhD's say up to 3

months to notice the change. Within that time you will just like

you reported hear spontaneous speech -the first word, " break

through " more focus, eye contact and attempts etc. There probably

was an increase in babbling or facial movements before that you may

not have noticed. Again in my experience -in 3 to 5 months most of

the nonverbal children are attempting 2 to 3 word sentences. Each

word alone may be clear -but when put into the sentence -at first

they may break down a bit again -however with a model they can

typically get it right! Tanner's first sentence without a

model? " Ah Of Oooh " (I love you!) You can hear Tanner and other

apraxic children from our group at http://www.debtsmart.com/talk

" Most of us actually did have nonverbal apraxic or PDD children

prior to EFAs -even though some in this group did not have any

diagnosis other than " delay in speech " . I can tell

you what we have seen as a group, and you can also search the

archives and web for more. Many of those posting here now other than

a few are newer parents as I explain below...

I remember when Tanner first started on Efalex, which is the formula

most of us found to be the best before ProEFA was invented, that I

posted to a list one week later that Tanner was going into corners

and whispering sounds to himself. Just like you I asked if this is

normal activity for an apraxic child because I thought it was kind

of strange. I don't remember if anyone answered, however I do know

that

one week after that -so two weeks after starting the Efalex- is when

Tanner said " lellow " for the first time. I posted that it was like

Bambi when he learned to say " flower " and instead of saying flower -

Tanner walked around looking for things to call " lellow " -he was

just as excited as us to be talking!! What's most amazing about this

is that prior to supplementation Tanner was in therapy 2 to 3 times

a

week one on one for half hour to 45 minute sessions for about 5

months and had learned in that time to blow bubbles, make more

facial

movements, say simple sounds like " ch " or " ooo " with lots of

encouragement and animation -however he still was not able to take

the " ch " and the " ooo " and put them together to say " choo " His only

words essentially at 2 years 10 months prior to EFAs were " mmmm "

and " ma " -and this was with lots of therapy. Just two weeks later

was a world of difference.

I don't know exactly why your child is moving her mouth in unusual

positions, or groping -however to me any changes outside the norm

when you start your child on the EFAs is a great sign that something

is clicking and

that the surge may be soon approaching. (Please let us know when you

see the surge in speech in the next week or two!)

Since I receive lots of calls about this -I wanted to list the most

common changes in an apraxic or other speech disordered child on

EFAs

from what I've read and heard and seen.

1. Increase in babbling or attempts at sounds.

2. Increase in imitation.

Changes also can be looked for in (what you see as positive or

negative)

sleep

attention

appetite

focus

behavior

stools

Next will come a breakthrough of something you were probably working

on for a bit -so you will be excited but will think " Well -I don't

want to get my hopes up we were working on that for awhile now -

maybe

it's just a coincidence " However after the second or third surge in

a short period of time -and then another - you are pretty sure

things

are different and it's at this point the professionals and the rest

of the family and your friends are noticing it too -maybe about two

to three weeks now.

OK -the next stage is pure elation and hope -you see the light and

no

longer feel as desperate and want to share this new information with

everyone and anyone. As the months go by and your child continues to

progress at a much more rapid rate -you may even start to doubt the

original diagnosis -especially if you started EFA supplementation at

two -and perhaps the SLP that diagnosed the apraxia who also was at

first excited is starting to second guess if the original diagnosis

was correct as well. Unless you have to stop the ProEFA (or other

Essential Fatty Acid) and literally have the chance to see the

regression of acquired speech and language skills, attempts, and

changes in behavior like we did with Tanner (and/or have a chance to

again witness the second surge when your child is put back on the

EFAs) -that doubt will probably remain somewhere in your mind and in

others around your child. So the " I told you that he would start

talking when he was ready " comments should be expected of course.

Up to this point is understandable to me -it's the point after this

that is confusing to me, and perhaps not the best stage for our

children and for raising awareness or having research done to find

out what is happening to our children and why. Perhaps because we

have truly hit a paradigm shift...

As Dr. Agin states the EFAs actually appear to be in some

ways " curing " the apraxic child -even those diagnosed with severe

oral and verbal apraxia, hypotonia, sensory and behavioral issues.

Especially those started at younger ages.

The child on ProEFA or some other EFA formula's like it no longer

fits the criteria of the classic definition of apraxia -and yet

doesn't fit the classic perception of what a late talker is either...

Some of the parents become more focused on other everyday activities

with their child and start to drift away from the support sources

(for those who ask why there appears to be trouble with support

groups in the US and outside the US now a days) I found it amazing

that at the New Jersey Speech Hearing Association Conference that a

higher than average number of the parents that attended had children

that did not respond to ProEFA. Basically only parents that were

still desperate for help for their child, or new parents showed up.

Problem with this attitude is that unless your child is really up to

speed on all aspects of speech and language, the support sources

that

helped in the beginning will still benefit your child today. ProEFA

alone is not the only answer and until we know how and why it works

(or why in a handful of children it doesn't) we can't improve on it "

=====

[Guest guest]

Go to http://www.apraxia.org

This is the Cherab Facebook page & under Forums is an entire Fish oil 101

section

Warmest wishes,

Barbara A , M.S.,CCC-SLP

President,

Help Me Speak, LLC

www.helpmespeak.com

2500 Wallington Way

Suite 103

Marriottsville, MD 21104

410-442-9791

Ask me about NutriiVeda!

On Aug 15, 2010, at 4:29 PM, " klove10381 " <klove10381@...> wrote:

> I briefly searched archives and cherab website but did not see the recommended

dosage for a 1 year old. or anyone, could you please send me that info?

>

>

[Guest guest]

The " fish oils 101 " message from the apraxia.org page is a great message for the

average child in our group but for a 1 year old, a baby, here's what you are

probably looking for:

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2001/can-i-give-fish-oil-to-my-baby/

http://cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html#Here

A good reference from the above links is that one full (NOT Jr.) capsule of

ProEFA is about equivalent to the dosage of EFAs the FDA approved for infant

formula. The Jr. version for Nordic are exact 1/2 dosages of the full capsule

so if you provide a baby (or some even get that for kids!) a Jr capsule you are

providing a half dosage of what's in baby formula.

If you check we have a few stories in the archives where the parent started

using a bit of fish oil with the baby brother or sister of an older apraxic

child...perhaps the baby was not babbling and in one case had tongue

protrusion...and if you check the archives it was always around within ONE WEEK

of providing the one capsule of ProEFA a day that the baby started babbling, and

in the case of the tongue protrusion that resolved somehow. Dr. ez talks

about the importance of the " earlier the better " for good nutrition with the oil

therapy http://www.momtahan.com/mmartinez/

You want to know dosage for a baby however -and over and over it's the one

capsule a day of ProEFA that has been found to be the answer. (again NOT the

jr- the full size capsule...there again is no such thing as baby fish oil -fish

oil is fish oil)

My friend Tree who I just wrote about ( Ross MD) used to take fish

oils herself and breast feed her son Josh, and then due to her busy practice if

she had to use formula she used to squeeze a capsule of fish oil into her baby's

formula and then food.

Josh was a preemie, and he is SO advanced above others his age which as most

know is not typical for preemies. But of course he also has a mom who is a

doctor and a dad who is a lawyer...but Tree and I think it's from fish oils as

well. If only I knew about fish oils when I was pregnant with my kids!

=====

[Guest guest]

Hello! I am using EFA and EPA on my 2 1/2 year old...we use the recommended

doses of 2 ProEFA and 1 ProEPA capsules.

What's the info on nursing that you found? I'd be interested. I have a 6

month old I'm nursing...

Thanks!

In a message dated 8/16/2010 4:48:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

malinda.joseph@... writes:

I have been using the Nordic Jr.s and will be switching to ProEFA. I keep

reading about ProEPA's, but not sure when/how much to use? My son is 33

months, ~32 lbs. He has been on the Nordic jr.s (2 a day) for 4 weeks now.

I really noticed his dry skin cleared up and his hair is SO MUCH softer...

However, his skin has seemed more dry the past few days... just wondering

if

anyone has experience with that?

I " m still waiting for a " surge " with his speech. He seems to make more

" noise " but no spontaneous language yet.. (He's also been on NV for 2 weeks

now-- 1 scoop/day)

Thanks for the info on ProEFA's and nursing. I have a 3 month old I am

nursing and will start them right away!

Malinda

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:27 AM, kiddietalk <_kiddietalk@..._

(mailto:kiddietalk@...) > wrote:

>

>

> The " fish oils 101 " message from the apraxia.org page is a great message

> for the average child in our group but for a 1 year old, a baby, here's

what

> you are probably looking for:

>

> _http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2001/can-i-give-fish-oil-to-my-baby/_

(http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2001/can-i-give-fish-oil-to-my-baby/)

> _http://cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html#Here_

(http://cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html#Here)

>

> A good reference from the above links is that one full (NOT Jr.) capsule

of

> ProEFA is about equivalent to the dosage of EFAs the FDA approved for

infant

> formula. The Jr. version for Nordic are exact 1/2 dosages of the full

> capsule so if you provide a baby (or some even get that for kids!) a Jr

> capsule you are providing a half dosage of what's in baby formula.

>

> If you check we have a few stories in the archives where the parent

started

> using a bit of fish oil with the baby brother or sister of an older

apraxic

> child...perhaps the baby was not babbling and in one case had tongue

> protrusion...and if you check the archives it was always around within

ONE

> WEEK of providing the one capsule of ProEFA a day that the baby started

> babbling, and in the case of the tongue protrusion that resolved somehow.

> Dr. ez talks about the importance of the " earlier the better " for

good

> nutrition with the oil therapy _http://www.momtahan.com/mmartinez/_

(http://www.momtahan.com/mmartinez/)

>

> You want to know dosage for a baby however -and over and over it's the

one

> capsule a day of ProEFA that has been found to be the answer. (again NOT

the

> jr- the full size capsule...there again is no such thing as baby fish oil

> -fish oil is fish oil)

>

> My friend Tree who I just wrote about ( Ross MD) used to

take

> fish oils herself and breast feed her son Josh, and then due to her busy

> practice if she had to use formula she used to squeeze a capsule of fish

oil

> into her baby's formula and then food.

>

> Josh was a preemie, and he is SO advanced above others his age which as

> most know is not typical for preemies. But of course he also has a mom

who

> is a doctor and a dad who is a lawyer...but Tree and I think it's from

fish

> oils as well. If only I knew about fish oils when I was pregnant with my

> kids!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

I have been using the Nordic Jr.s and will be switching to ProEFA. I keep

reading about ProEPA's, but not sure when/how much to use? My son is 33

months, ~32 lbs. He has been on the Nordic jr.s (2 a day) for 4 weeks now.

I really noticed his dry skin cleared up and his hair is SO MUCH softer...

However, his skin has seemed more dry the past few days... just wondering if

anyone has experience with that?

I " m still waiting for a " surge " with his speech. He seems to make more

" noise " but no spontaneous language yet.. (He's also been on NV for 2 weeks

now-- 1 scoop/day)

Thanks for the info on ProEFA's and nursing. I have a 3 month old I am

nursing and will start them right away!

Malinda

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:27 AM, kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

>

>

> The " fish oils 101 " message from the apraxia.org page is a great message

> for the average child in our group but for a 1 year old, a baby, here's what

> you are probably looking for:

>

> http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2001/can-i-give-fish-oil-to-my-baby/

> http://cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html#Here

>

> A good reference from the above links is that one full (NOT Jr.) capsule of

> ProEFA is about equivalent to the dosage of EFAs the FDA approved for infant

> formula. The Jr. version for Nordic are exact 1/2 dosages of the full

> capsule so if you provide a baby (or some even get that for kids!) a Jr

> capsule you are providing a half dosage of what's in baby formula.

>

> If you check we have a few stories in the archives where the parent started

> using a bit of fish oil with the baby brother or sister of an older apraxic

> child...perhaps the baby was not babbling and in one case had tongue

> protrusion...and if you check the archives it was always around within ONE

> WEEK of providing the one capsule of ProEFA a day that the baby started

> babbling, and in the case of the tongue protrusion that resolved somehow.

> Dr. ez talks about the importance of the " earlier the better " for good

> nutrition with the oil therapy http://www.momtahan.com/mmartinez/

>

> You want to know dosage for a baby however -and over and over it's the one

> capsule a day of ProEFA that has been found to be the answer. (again NOT the

> jr- the full size capsule...there again is no such thing as baby fish oil

> -fish oil is fish oil)

>

> My friend Tree who I just wrote about ( Ross MD) used to take

> fish oils herself and breast feed her son Josh, and then due to her busy

> practice if she had to use formula she used to squeeze a capsule of fish oil

> into her baby's formula and then food.

>

> Josh was a preemie, and he is SO advanced above others his age which as

> most know is not typical for preemies. But of course he also has a mom who

> is a doctor and a dad who is a lawyer...but Tree and I think it's from fish

> oils as well. If only I knew about fish oils when I was pregnant with my

> kids!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Malinda!

You are using a pretty low dosage of fish oils for your son as 2 jr = 1 full

ProEFA capsule which is about the dosage recommended for infant formula. You

could probably easily share this info with his ped and increase to at least 2

ProEFA -and you'd want to do that prior to adding the ProEPA (unless you want to

keep the dosage low and just use 1/2 capsule of ProEPA with each one ProEFA.

Again there is no such thing as baby fish oil -you're paying twice as much about

for the formula because of smart marketing. Don't get me wrong the Jrs are

great for mainly those that want to teach the child how to swallow capsules as

they are so little -but since you get around the same amount of capsules for

about the same cost - that's why I say you are paying about twice as much. And

you are using 2 jr which again is exactly the same as one regular.

Unless you are using the DHA Jr instead of the ProEFA Jr/Omega 369 Jr then that

explains why you haven't seen much of a surge too as DHA Jr is just cod liver

oil -higher in DHA than EPA with no GLA and natural vitamin A since it's made

from the liver of the fish...or in brief the wrong formula -let me know.

Are you seeing any frustration? Does he seem to want to communicate with you

but can't? If you are not seeing frustration it's possible there is still a bit

of developmental issues going on as well -he's only going to surge up to where

he can go -and if there is a developmental lag going on just give it a bit more

time. I'm confident in what you are seeing because more noise is a good thing.

Check this list here http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit.html and outside of

speech (which yes is the first thing most of us in the group look for increases

in!) have you noticed surges in any other areas...play, attention, facial

expressions- and for his age I'd include mouth movements, tongue play etc.

But just for fun...I've heard from more than one now that went to a heaping

scoop of NV (and again make sure enough liquids) and saw more dramatic surges.

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi-

See the end of lisa's response above--she mentions a friend took fish oils

while nursing...I'm planning on taking the recommended adult dosage

Any nursing/pregnant mothers out there who have taken fish oils?

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 3:06 PM, <spinachbreath@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hello! I am using EFA and EPA on my 2 1/2 year old...we use the recommended

>

> doses of 2 ProEFA and 1 ProEPA capsules.

> What's the info on nursing that you found? I'd be interested. I have a 6

> month old I'm nursing...

> Thanks!

>

>

> In a message dated 8/16/2010 4:48:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> malinda.joseph@... <malinda.joseph%40gmail.com> writes:

>

> I have been using the Nordic Jr.s and will be switching to ProEFA. I keep

> reading about ProEPA's, but not sure when/how much to use? My son is 33

> months, ~32 lbs. He has been on the Nordic jr.s (2 a day) for 4 weeks now.

> I really noticed his dry skin cleared up and his hair is SO MUCH softer...

> However, his skin has seemed more dry the past few days... just wondering

> if

> anyone has experience with that?

>

> I " m still waiting for a " surge " with his speech. He seems to make more

> " noise " but no spontaneous language yet.. (He's also been on NV for 2 weeks

> now-- 1 scoop/day)

>

> Thanks for the info on ProEFA's and nursing. I have a 3 month old I am

> nursing and will start them right away!

>

> Malinda

>

> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 5:27 AM, kiddietalk

<_kiddietalk@...<_kiddietalk%40>_

>

> (mailto:kiddietalk@... <kiddietalk%40>) > wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > The " fish oils 101 " message from the apraxia.org page is a great message

> > for the average child in our group but for a 1 year old, a baby, here's

> what

> > you are probably looking for:

> >

> > _http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2001/can-i-give-fish-oil-to-my-baby/_

> (http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2001/can-i-give-fish-oil-to-my-baby/)

> > _http://cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html#Here_

> (http://cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html#Here)

> >

> > A good reference from the above links is that one full (NOT Jr.) capsule

> of

> > ProEFA is about equivalent to the dosage of EFAs the FDA approved for

> infant

> > formula. The Jr. version for Nordic are exact 1/2 dosages of the full

> > capsule so if you provide a baby (or some even get that for kids!) a Jr

> > capsule you are providing a half dosage of what's in baby formula.

> >

> > If you check we have a few stories in the archives where the parent

> started

> > using a bit of fish oil with the baby brother or sister of an older

> apraxic

> > child...perhaps the baby was not babbling and in one case had tongue

> > protrusion...and if you check the archives it was always around within

> ONE

> > WEEK of providing the one capsule of ProEFA a day that the baby started

> > babbling, and in the case of the tongue protrusion that resolved somehow.

> > Dr. ez talks about the importance of the " earlier the better " for

> good

> > nutrition with the oil therapy _http://www.momtahan.com/mmartinez/_

> (http://www.momtahan.com/mmartinez/)

> >

> > You want to know dosage for a baby however -and over and over it's the

> one

> > capsule a day of ProEFA that has been found to be the answer. (again NOT

> the

> > jr- the full size capsule...there again is no such thing as baby fish oil

> > -fish oil is fish oil)

> >

> > My friend Tree who I just wrote about ( Ross MD) used to

> take

> > fish oils herself and breast feed her son Josh, and then due to her busy

> > practice if she had to use formula she used to squeeze a capsule of fish

> oil

> > into her baby's formula and then food.

> >

> > Josh was a preemie, and he is SO advanced above others his age which as

> > most know is not typical for preemies. But of course he also has a mom

> who

> > is a doctor and a dad who is a lawyer...but Tree and I think it's from

> fish

> > oils as well. If only I knew about fish oils when I was pregnant with my

> > kids!

> >

> > =====

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for your response! He is taking the Nordic Naturals Omega 3-6-9

Junior (2 a day) I will order the ProEFA tonight and start him on 2

immediately and incorporate the ProEPA a few weeks later...

I will also start a heaping scoop of the NV.

He is EXTREMELY frustrated with his lack of speech. He has started

screaming, which he NEVER did before. When he did his EI testing at 31

months, his speech tested at 12-15 months and everything else was at

least 31 months or off the charts (past 36 months). He is extremely bright

and very coordinated. (this is the kids who re-learned to walk in a full

cast on one leg at 17 months and would even climb up and go down the slide

in his cast!) I don't have any concerns in any other areas for him.

He had two different evaluations at 31 months and both " suspected " apraxia.

They said he had too few words for a diagnosis.

I actually met with the director of the preschool today to transist him from

EI to the school system when he turns 3. (November 22) I notice a few

people stop the fish oils and NV a few weeks before and allow their child to

regress in order to get the best treatment plan possible. Is this what you

recommend? He has only been receiving 1 session a week since he started.

(they wanted 2x a month, I pushed for at least 1x a week) I have been

trying to find a certified PROMPT therapist in the area (Salt Lake City

area). I really like his current therapist, but feel he needs more. We

have him " saying " about 30 different word cards--ONLY when prompted. His

spontaneous words are limited to: me, mom, dad, yes, no, ery (henry), uice

(juice) he will sign for " more " now. I have been trying to incorporate

signs to ease his frustration...his therapist has been great helping with

this.

Thank you so much for your book. I'm not sure where it was, but it really

" hit " me when I read that telling a kid with apraxia to just talk was like

telling a kid in a wheel chair to just get up and walk! It really helped me

better appreciate what is going on in his little mind!

I have a 3 month old baby I am nursing and plan to start the ProEFA for his

benefit. I was tempted to pump and also mix with the NV for my 33 month

old. I did nurse him until he was 15 months... Any experience in this

area?

Thanks again for your dedication in helping our children find their voices!

Malinda

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:50 PM, kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi Malinda!

>

> You are using a pretty low dosage of fish oils for your son as 2 jr = 1

> full ProEFA capsule which is about the dosage recommended for infant

> formula. You could probably easily share this info with his ped and increase

> to at least 2 ProEFA -and you'd want to do that prior to adding the ProEPA

> (unless you want to keep the dosage low and just use 1/2 capsule of ProEPA

> with each one ProEFA. Again there is no such thing as baby fish oil -you're

> paying twice as much about for the formula because of smart marketing. Don't

> get me wrong the Jrs are great for mainly those that want to teach the child

> how to swallow capsules as they are so little -but since you get around the

> same amount of capsules for about the same cost - that's why I say you are

> paying about twice as much. And you are using 2 jr which again is exactly

> the same as one regular.

>

> Unless you are using the DHA Jr instead of the ProEFA Jr/Omega 369 Jr then

> that explains why you haven't seen much of a surge too as DHA Jr is just cod

> liver oil -higher in DHA than EPA with no GLA and natural vitamin A since

> it's made from the liver of the fish...or in brief the wrong formula -let me

> know.

>

> Are you seeing any frustration? Does he seem to want to communicate with

> you but can't? If you are not seeing frustration it's possible there is

> still a bit of developmental issues going on as well -he's only going to

> surge up to where he can go -and if there is a developmental lag going on

> just give it a bit more time. I'm confident in what you are seeing because

> more noise is a good thing. Check this list here

> http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit.html and outside of speech (which yes

> is the first thing most of us in the group look for increases in!) have you

> noticed surges in any other areas...play, attention, facial expressions- and

> for his age I'd include mouth movements, tongue play etc.

>

> But just for fun...I've heard from more than one now that went to a heaping

> scoop of NV (and again make sure enough liquids) and saw more dramatic

> surges.

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Malinda!

The frustration tells me then that your child's receptive is beyond the

expressive as you point out so yes you should be seeing more in the way of

surges. If he's just started screaming I'm taking it that's since the fish oils

or since the NV which means the frustration has increased...which to me means he

is more aware of what he wants to do or say and can't, or there's more that he

wants to do or say than before and again he is aware he isn't capable. That's

great that you are providing alternative ways to communicate for now like baby

sign or PECS.

About the oils again the Omega 369 and the ProEFA are the same except one is the

commercial line and one the professional line -the " pro " line having 30 extra

capsules for around the same cost online you'd buy the commercial line for in

the stores which is why most use the pro line when given the choice. But yes

the main difference is the regular vs the jr capsules as what you are using

again, the jr, are exact half dosages and again one full capsule (or 2 jr) is

the dosage approved for infant formula -more on that below.

Yes it is highly recommended to stop both fish oils and NV at least a few days

to a week prior to going through testing for the IEP. It doesn't really feel

like cheating since the world wouldn't believe either makes a difference anyway!

Our little secret in helping to advocate for appropriate services since

appropriate therapies are still of course are key as well. The brain responds

to multiple stimuli. Typically it shouldn't be more than a week or so that the

child is off the supps. As you probably know there is also an entire chapter in

The Late Talker that will help you advocate for appropriate services for him

-for most with apraxia typically 3 sessions of one on one therapy a week has

been the norm that is most accepted -but some of us do secure even more than

that -some of us pay for outside therapies to supplement so there are 5 to even

7 days a week of individual therapy. The speech therapy matrix

http://www.cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/therapymatrix.html or

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2007/speech-therapy-matrix/ will really help

-you want to know if his diagnosis is mild to profound...as you have been

reading once on nutriiveda we have a few reports now of children progressing

from profound to mild/moderate in months which is beyond awesome!!! (

will be sending me the one written report from the neurologist and SLP soon)

About an infant that is being breast fed -the essential fatty acids are found

naturally in mother's milk -and the friend I talk about who supplemented herself

when breast feeding and then squeezed a capsule into the baby's formula when she

needed to use that instead...and then food- is my friend who is a practicing

internal medical doctor out of the Barnabas Medical system in NJ -her name is

Dr. Ross...she likes to call her mainly senior patients " fish

deficient " and highly recommends fish oils to just about all. She was ahead of

her time as when Josh was a baby that was prior to the EFAs being added to

infant formula as they are now approved by the FDA.

I would highly recommend you taking fish oils while breast feeding so that you

create breast milk that is rich in essential fatty acids as that is so important

for healthy eye and brain function amongst other things -lots of research on

that and lots of studies that show that American mom's breast milk is typically

one of the most lacking...and by the way if you notice that you are forgetting

why you walked into a room once you get there -etc. that's because if you don't

consume enough of the essential fatty acids your body is pulling it from your

own brain to add to the milk (just as it pulled from your brain for your baby's

brain if you didn't consume enough) We can't make essential nutrients -we have

to consume them. Here's some info on nursing and EFAs

http://www.springerlink.com/content/g183503303307587/

And here's a study by one of my favorite researchers in this area -Dr. Joe

Hibblen of the NIH who speaks about how if you don't have enough- your body

pulls from your stores for the baby which 'can' lead to postpartum depression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12103448

The nutriiveda we'd have to look at more before I'd use that with a breast

feeding baby. There are formulas that have whey protein

http://www.nestle-baby.ca/en/products/explaining_formula.htm but there are

certain foods that shouldn't be introduced prior to a certain age due to risk of

forming allergy or bacteria and to be honest I don't know enough about all the

foods in it for infants. For example not that NV contains honey but for example

the " Food Standards Agency say, " Don't give honey to your baby until he or she

is a year old. This is because, very occasionally, honey can contain a type of

bacteria that can produce toxins in a baby's intestines. This can cause serious

illness (infant botulism). After a baby is a year old, the intestine has matured

and the bacteria can't grow. "

http://www.babyworld.co.uk/information/baby/ready_or_not_guide/baby_questions2.a\

sp#eat

The doctors behind nutriiveda do not on the other hand recommend taking

nutriiveda while pregnant or nursing until there is more research because we

know it naturally due to a number of foods in it helps the body to detox- but

there is a concern that some of those toxins can pass to either the developing

fetus or the mother's milk- so in that regard I also don't know about using any

nutriiveda with a nursing baby until he or she is finished nursing without

checking with your child's doctor. Even though I know they are all fine for our

children -even really young children...you'd have to look up every one of the

following whole foods to see if there are any reasons to avoid them prior to a

year old for a breast feeding infant " Whey Protein Isolates (Amino Acids:

Alanine, Arginine, Aspartic Acid, Cystin, Glutamic Acid, Glycine, Histidine,

Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Proline, Serine,

Thereonine, Trytophan, Tyrosine, Valine), Rice Life powder (Brown Rice), Natural

Cocoa Powder, Apple Fiber, Organic Cane Sugar, Proprietary Ayurvedic Blend

(Guggul, Amalaki, Green Tea, Haritaki, Turmeric, Gymnerma, Cayenne Pepper),

Xanthan Gum, Stevia, L-Taurine, L-Theanine "

http://pursuitofresearch.org/ingredients.html

You can compare that just for a quick example with the list of ingredients in

this one brand of baby formula -from the same link I have above (I chose one

that didn't have the extra EFAs added as that list was even longer)

" PARTIALLY HYDROLYZED REDUCED MINERALS WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE (FROM COW'S

MILK), LACTOSE, CORN MALTODEXTRIN, PALM OLEIN, SOYBEAN OIL, COCONUT OIL,

MINERALS (POTASSIUM CITRATE, POTASSIUM PHOSPHATE, CALCIUM CHLORIDE, TRICALCIUM

PHOSPHATE, SODIUM CITRATE, MAGNESIUM CHLORIDE, FERROUS SULPHATE, ZINC SULPHATE,

SODIUM CHLORIDE, COPPER SULPHATE, POTASSIUM IODIDE, MANGANESE SULPHATE), HIGH

OLEIC SAFFLOWER OIL OR HIGH OLEIC SUNFLOWER OIL, VITAMINS (SODIUM ASCORBATE,

CHOLINE BITARTRATE, INOSITOL, ALPHA-TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM

PANTOTHENATE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, VITAMIN A ACETATE, PYRIDOXINE

HYDROCHLORIDE, FOLIC ACID, PHYLLOQUINONE, BIOTIN, VITAMIN D3, VITAMIN B12),

TRYPSIN, TAURINE, NUCLEOTIDES, (CYTIDINE 5'-MONOPHOSPHATE, DISODIUM URIDINE

5'-MONOPHOSPHATE, ADENOSINE 5'-MONOPHOSPHATE, DISODIUM GUANOSINE

5'-MONOPHOSPHATE), L-CARNITINE. "

http://www.nestle-baby.ca/en/products/formula/starter/GOOD_START.htm

So to wrap up in my opinion without a doubt fish oils yes for breast feeding

baby and for mommy- nutriiveda no for both baby and mommy unless doctor approved

for breast feeding baby as your own breast milk should be providing all the

other nutrients your baby needs. But still no for you. If you were to use it

because doc says it is OK for baby -I'd still start at a sprinkle, dusting- and

never go more than a pinch. We don't know enough in the area of breast feeding

infants and I'd rather you play it safe. But again with fish oils I'd look at

that as full steam ahead- huge amount of research to support why!

=====

[Guest guest]

I have a friend who did and about 12-15 hours after she took the fish oil, her

nine month old would be babbling for hours. She learned to take it right before

bed, so it would affect the baby in the morning.

> > My friend Tree who I just wrote about ( Ross MD) used to

> take

> > fish oils herself and breast feed her son Josh, and then due to her busy

> > practice if she had to use formula she used to squeeze a capsule of fish

> oil

> > into her baby's formula and then food.

> >

> > Josh was a preemie, and he is SO advanced above others his age which as

> > most know is not typical for preemies. But of course he also has a mom

> who

> > is a doctor and a dad who is a lawyer...but Tree and I think it's from

> fish

> > oils as well. If only I knew about fish oils when I was pregnant with my

> > kids!

> >

> > =====

> >

[Guest guest]

I nursed my son until he was 31 months and he had only a few words and a few

word appox at that time. A month later, I read the late talker, and started him

on fish oil. He started picking up words three days later. He's still not very

understandable at 41 months, but he uses sentences

Liralen

>

> I have a 3 month old baby I am nursing and plan to start the ProEFA for his

> benefit. I was tempted to pump and also mix with the NV for my 33 month

> old. I did nurse him until he was 15 months... Any experience in this

> area?

>

> Thanks again for your dedication in helping our children find their voices!

>

> Malinda

>

> On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:50 PM, kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

>

> >