Re: The low down on ferritin

[Guest guest]

Glad you sent that, Fluffy. What I'd like to know is WHY my Ferritin

falls even when I am optimally correct on Armour!! I am forced to

stay on iron supplementation, and a high amount.

Janie

> Now where has this article been hiding...basically..thyroid

hormone

> affects ferritn...they've known that for a long long time!!!!but

> kept it secret.

> Love Fluffy

> Serum Ferritin in Hyperthyroidism

> Massimo Delfino

>

> 1 August 1993 | Volume 119 Issue 3 | Page 249

[Guest guest]

Here's your answer.....thyroid hormone resistance!

Fluffy

Serum ferritin as a marker of thyroid hormone action on peripheral

tissues

J Takamatsu, M Majima, K Miki, K Kuma and T Mozai

Serum ferritin measurements were evaluated as a marker of thyroid

hormone action on peripheral tissues. Mean serum ferritin

concentrations were not significantly different in euthyroid,

thyrotoxic, and hypothyroid subjects due to a wide spread in

ferritin levels among individuals. Intraindividual changes in serum

ferritin, however, occurred with changing thyroid function. All 18

patients with thyrotoxic Graves' disease had a decrease in serum

ferritin levels when they became euthyroid during antithyroid drug

therapy. Furthermore, a significant intraindividual correlation

between serum levels of ferritin and T4 or T3 was found in 2

patients with thyrotoxic Graves' disease in whom levels were

measured serially throughout the course of therapy. Similarly, serum

ferritin levels increased in all 12 hypothyroid patients with

Hashimoto's disease when euthyroidism was achieved with L-T4

therapy. Administration of 75 micrograms T3 daily for 1 week to 11

euthyroid subjects resulted in a 23-243% (mean +/- SD, 117 +/- 70%)

increase in serum ferritin above basal values. In contrast, in 3

patients with thyroid hormone resistance, the same treatment

produced rises in serum ferritin concentrations of only 2%, 5%, and

15%. Our data suggest that alterations in thyroid status in a given

individual produce changes in serum ferritin levels. Measurement of

this protein before and after T3 therapy may prove useful in the

diagnosis of thyroid hormone resistance.

> > Now where has this article been hiding...basically..thyroid

> hormone

> > affects ferritn...they've known that for a long long time!!!!but

> > kept it secret.

> > Love Fluffy

> > Serum Ferritin in Hyperthyroidism

> > Massimo Delfino

> >

> > 1 August 1993 | Volume 119 Issue 3 | Page 249

[Guest guest]

Hi, someone at the about.com forum wrote to me in reply:

" …….with thyroid cellular resistance, the bloodwork will show that

you have plenty of thyroid hormone -- in fact, elevated T4 and T3,

without a suppressed TSH, is part of the diagnostic criteria, but

you will actually show hypothyroid symptoms because the thyroid

hormone is not able to get in to the cells to be used. Your labs do

not show elevated levels of T4 and T3 and you are getting hyper

symptoms when you increase your thyroid meds -- that is not the norm

with cellular resistance syndrome… " ...

" ………Here is a reference from Chapter 16 of Thyroidmanager.org -- an

online text book written by doctors for doctors -- concerning

Thyroid cellular resistance syndrome: " In practice, such patients

are identified by their persistent elevation of circulating free

thyroxine (FT4) and free triiodothyronine (FT3) levels in

association with nonsuppressed serum thyrotropin (TSH), and in the

absence of intercurrent illness, drugs, or alterations of TH

transport serum proteins. More importantly, higher doses of

exogenous TH are required to produce the expected suppressive effect

on the secretion of pituitary TSH and on the metabolic responses in

peripheral tissues…... "

So, although I thought I might have cellular resistance, my new

labwork shows surpressed TSH 0.006 and high Ft3 and Ft4.

The GOOD NEWS is that my ferritine went up to 51 !!!!!!!!!!! (

ferritine < 2 a year ago, 12 it was before taking Armour, 34 after

two months on Armour, and now 51 after four months on Armour).

No diet, but I have increased my egg & meat intake the last two

months, no iron-suppletion. But my `gut-feeling' is, that it won't

go further than this, don't know why. I probably need more Armour,

but I have difficulties with upping.

I wonder if it has to do with my B12 struggles. I have a sore tongue

on and off, and it gives me a sad mood, since at those episodes I

don't seem to digest food properly. I've read that people who get

B12 shots, do need to check their ferritine levels, since they are

correlated.

How many of you do get a sore tongue while being hypo and have

their `normal' tongue back when they are euthyroid?

I have posted a little info on Ferritine -I found somewhere on this

forum- at a Dutch hypo-forum. Should I have asked permission? (

…… ) I would like to post this other piece of information as well

that Fluffy posted. It is so interesting …… (Some Dutch people

wouldn't easily sign in for this forum, since the English can be

quite difficult sometimes, or they are probably not interested in

natural thyroid hormones…… ).

Kim. (btw. my Dutch name is Margreet, sounds like Marguerite).

> > > Now where has this article been hiding...basically..thyroid

> > hormone

> > > affects ferritn...they've known that for a long long time!!!!

but

> > > kept it secret.

> > > Love Fluffy

> > > Serum Ferritin in Hyperthyroidism

> > > Massimo Delfino

> > >

> > > 1 August 1993 | Volume 119 Issue 3 | Page 249

[Guest guest]

> The GOOD NEWS is that my ferritine went up to 51 !!!!!!!!!!! (

> ferritine < 2 a year ago, 12 it was before taking Armour, 34 after

> two months on Armour, and now 51 after four months on Armour).

Margreet, hooray!! And you did this without supplementation! I am

impressed. It took me a long time to get into the 50's, and I used

supplements. Be aware that you can fall back down without good

continuation of what you are doing, for some reason.

Janie

p.s. Why would dutch folks not be interested in natural thyroid

hormones, and how did you get that way??

And how is the dutch language so different from English??

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You write: >`Fascinating reading your post! (You have a lovely

name)'.<

Thank you , You make my day!

>'I get B12 shots too. I was wondering why the need to check

ferritin levels if you get B12 shots?'.<

Well, I think the ferritin is a more accurate measurement of your

active B12-metabolism. How can I explain this with my little bit of

English? Well, I SHOULD know better probably and try not to ……… ………

Personally, I believe that iron is the magic element in our body,

since it transports the oxygen. Can you imagine anything better as a

sign of good health than an oxygen-rich environment?

A lack of B12 causes a delayed produce of new blood-cells in the

bone-marrow. Therefore the quality of the cells can become malformed

and smaller in amount. When that happens, their capacity to

transport oxygen throughout the entire system is reduced. This

explains why the heart pumps faster and beats stronger, to get the

same job done with less fuel. (Our poor faithfull hearts …..). It

also explains dizzyness and short breath. (Oxygen uptake is in our

lungs).

Now, what starts to happen –and this is my personal opinion- is that

the low-down on ferritin becomes a vicious cycle. In order to

transport oxygen, the cells need hemoglobine. With B12 shortage,

there might be more hemoglobin `forced' in the cell because there

are lesser cells. In that `overloaded' condition, they can't perform

their duties well enough. As a result, a lot of oxygen will

be `dumped' in the tissues, without being used. So the oxygen can't

reach place of destination. (Which is the cell-level of metabolic

activity for energy-exchange).

Now, Ferritin is actually a `transport-proteïne', which carries the

iron. I can imagine that when there's a disrupted uptake of iron,

because of the malformed cells, the ferritine can also not be

generated. Nothing can be generated REALLY, when there's no oxygen.

Am I right in my thinking?

The `overloaded' cells show us why some of us have good HB levels.

Nevertheless it doesn't measure low iron or low ferritin. It also

explains why this occures with being hypo, since the entire

metabolism slows down, including the renuwal of bloodcells in the

bone-marrow. In a way, although it is so extremely complicated, when

you think about it, it seems very logic. (However, I would not share

these thoughts so easy with someone who has studied the subject more

thouroughly …..). So I'm not aying that what I'm writing is correct.

It is just my way of thinking.

And once you get shots, it is very hard to say what the

real `active' amount of B12 is in your blood. I've understood that

B12 needs to be > 1000 right before the next shot. If it is lower,

you need more frequent shots. Therefore, it is better to check the

ferritin anyway! (Dutch B12 reference: normal between 170 – 700

pmol/l, is it the same as US?).

A coated tongue, I thought, is a sign of detoxification, the blood-

cells can't get rid of their metabolism's `waste-material'. Or

something like that … My tongue is also white coated when the b-12

symptoms occur.

The top of my tongue has small blisters and the tissue has some

little red and painfull scars here and there. Last week, I had one

little scar right in the middle-foldline. I also had little scars,

like split skin (oohh, seeking the right words for my lacking

English) as excema on my fingers. I have to put a fatty cream on it

all the time. (Not on my tongue ofcourse…).

B.t.w. I had e-mailed you, but than I couldn't enter this forum, it

took a few days to find out why my e-mail was `softly bouncing'.

(….?????..). It sounds so funny. Than I discovered I had to delete

my entire inbox-content. Didn't know I had one. GRIN, and

aarrrgghhhh: me and computers …..

(Have to get used to yahoo-groups I guess. So I have switched off my

personal e-mail which means I can't get anymore personal messages?

Please explain how you work with it !?).

Margreet. (Kim).

[Guest guest]

Hi Janie, I forgot to answer two more questions......

> p.s. Why would dutch folks not be interested in natural thyroid

hormones, and how did you get that way??<

Some dutch folks are, and they posted info on how and where to get

it. Yet, for most people it is still a No~No, and when I try to

explain, I get a lot of resistance...... (.... cellular

resistance? .... grin). And those who started feeling very well on

Armour, will stop posting and pick up their healthy and happy lives

again .....

The second reason is, that I probably became more sick than others

since I had heavy menstrual periods for several years. No doctor or

specialist told me that it could be a sign of undertreated

hypothyroidism. And nothing was wrong with my womb itself, so that's

why I didn't want it to be removed.

I also assume I had a higher dose of RAI compared to other dutch

people, since at that time I lived in the Boston area and was

treated there also. (I've lived in Cambridge for almost 4 years). As

you know in Europe people get lower amounts, unless with

thyroidcancer. But I do not know the differences exactly.

The 3th reason might be the fact that I have been seeking a lot of

information, while some other people just accept what their doctors

tell them, and remain in hypohell without knowing they might be able

to get out of it.

> And how is the dutch language so different from English??<

Nou, eens kijken of je hier uit komt Janie, maar zonder woorden-boek

of vertaalprogramma is er voor jou geen beginnen aan denk ik.

Behalve natuurlijk als je een Nederlander in de buurt hebt wonen, of

heel toevallig de taal zou beheersen?! En bedenk ook dat het

medische vocabulaire voor schildklier-perikelen niet echt eenvoudig

is. Zelfs in de Nederlandse taal is het soms nog moeilijk om er een

touw aan vast te knopen. Neem bijvoorbeeld alleen al het

regelmechanisme van de TSH, Ft4, Ft3 en andere hormonen!

Regarding the Ft4, I think it needs to be in top-range too. I'm

aware it is not the active hormone in our body, yet I think its

balance compared to the Ft3 level is also important. I wonder if it

is possible to get it in the toprange with adding t4 to Armour.

Do you know anyone who has succeeded in that?

Have a nice day!

Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Hi Alison,

Thank you for your reply! You know obviously more than I!

> No- iron stores and B12 are independent of each other so you can

have masses of stored iron and low B12 or vice versa -mixed

picture anaemias are fairly rare but can happen eg malnutrition,

anorexia

alcoholism - where you can have lack of iron, b12 and folate at the

same time<

Yes, I think you're right there. But I think that the B12

measurement in the bloodwork, doesn't say anything about its ability

to be active and HOW it performs its tasks. Most of B12 problems are

recognized by their deficiency signs. Ofcourse low B-12's are a

warning sign! That's why B12 to me is a bit of a whimsical element!

Therefore I would really like to know what you think is the cause of

low ferritin! (When there's no blood-loss of any kind).

> Also ferritin is also an acute phase reactant and reacts to

inflammation in the body so a high or normal ferritin can be a false

result in the presence of inflammation.<

Actually, I don't know much about that mechanism, but have heard

about it before. However, I'm especially interested in why the low

levels.

m> The `overloaded' cells show us why some of us have good HB

levels. m> Nevertheless it doesn't measure low iron or low

ferritin.

>No- what is more likely is that Drs are not looking at the other

blood parameters to diagnose early Fe deficiency or that some

people have a Hb on the high end of the normal range which

drops with chronic disease -and this drop in Hb even though its

still within the normal range makes a big difference for that

individual. <

Well, I agree, anemia is the most difficult thing to understand.

But the theory of 'overloaded' cells is quite logic to me. So for

me, that's a yes! What blood parameters do you think shows early Fe

deficiency? For me, it is more the signs of pernicious anemia that

I'm interested in. They are correlated to B12-signs and often it

occures in combination with hypothyroidism . My HB levels are in top-

range now, my ferritin remains low. How do you explain that?

Kim.

[Guest guest]

Dutch is kind of like a cross between the Scandinavian languages and

German. (And like English it is a Germanic language.) Oh and it looks

cool!

Louise

PS The paragraph below the one in Dutch is NOT a translation!!

>>

> > And how is the dutch language so different from English??<

>

> Nou, eens kijken of je hier uit komt Janie, maar zonder woorden-

boek

> of vertaalprogramma is er voor jou geen beginnen aan denk ik.

> Behalve natuurlijk als je een Nederlander in de buurt hebt wonen,

of

> heel toevallig de taal zou beheersen?! En bedenk ook dat het

> medische vocabulaire voor schildklier-perikelen niet echt eenvoudig

> is. Zelfs in de Nederlandse taal is het soms nog moeilijk om er een

> touw aan vast te knopen. Neem bijvoorbeeld alleen al het

> regelmechanisme van de TSH, Ft4, Ft3 en andere hormonen!

>

> Regarding the Ft4, I think it needs to be in top-range too. I'm

> aware it is not the active hormone in our body, yet I think its

> balance compared to the Ft3 level is also important. I wonder if it

> is possible to get it in the toprange with adding t4 to Armour.

> Do you know anyone who has succeeded in that?

>

> Have a nice day!

>

> Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for your research and comments on the topic.

You made me think again.

Since, once I saw my own bloodcells enlarged under a microscope and

the cells were all very small and FLAT! They were pressed towards

each other, and I was really shocked to see it. At that time my

ferritin was really low, and I assumed it had to do with that.

So, I had an iron-deficiency, but now I'm convinced it was not

caused by bloodloss or by the B12 factor alone. And the weird thing

is, that my HB-count in my blood was normal, although in the lower

range. My folic acid at that time was in very high range.

Gee, will I ever understand?

Margreet.

> B12, iron, and all the nutrients are necessary for red blood cell

production

> and oxygen transport. If we have an anemia in any one of these

substances

> the red blood cells will be in bad shape. B12 anemia causes some

of the

> cells, if not many, to be oversized. There may be a good amt of

hemoglobin

> in there, but the quality of it may not be good. The stages and

variations

> on these things are sort of staged according to the chronicity and

severity

> of the anemia. The pattern on the anemia of iron usually shows

microcytic

> anemia, meaning that the cells are too small AND the hemoglobin

isn't either

> very good or too small an amt or both, plus other variations.

Macrocytic

> anemia is almost " surefire " B12 and/or Folic Acid anemia. I don't

know

> about the patterns of the other nutritional anemias.

>

>

>

>

> Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

>

>

> > Wow, Margreet (Kim),

> > Thanks for this explanation! Well done! I read somewhere that

ferritin is

> stored iron.

> > My doctor had never tested my ferritin until I asked her to.

> > I don't know how to help you with Yahoo! Hopefully someone can.

> > The normal range we have for B12 is 211-911 pg/ml.

> > in Va.

> >

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > You write: >`Fascinating reading your post! (You have a lovely

> > name)'.<

> > Thank you , You make my day!

> >

> > >'I get B12 shots too. I was wondering why the need to check

> > ferritin levels if you get B12 shots?'.<

> >

> > Well, I think the ferritin is a more accurate measurement of

your

> > active B12-metabolism. How can I explain this with my little

bit of

> > English? Well, I SHOULD know better probably and try not

to ... ...

> >

> > Personally, I believe that iron is the magic element in our

body,

> > since it transports the oxygen. Can you imagine anything

better as a

> > sign of good health than an oxygen-rich environment?

> >

> > A lack of B12 causes a delayed produce of new blood-cells in

the

> > bone-marrow. Therefore the quality of the cells can become

malformed

> > and smaller in amount. When that happens, their capacity to

> > transport oxygen throughout the entire system is reduced. This

> > explains why the heart pumps faster and beats stronger, to get

the

> > same job done with less fuel. (Our poor faithfull hearts ...).

It

> > also explains dizzyness and short breath. (Oxygen uptake is in

our

> > lungs).

> >

> > Now, what starts to happen -and this is my personal opinion-

is that

> > the low-down on ferritin becomes a vicious cycle. In order to

> > transport oxygen, the cells need hemoglobine. With B12

shortage,

> > there might be more hemoglobin `forced' in the cell because

there

> > are lesser cells. In that `overloaded' condition, they can't

perform

> > their duties well enough. As a result, a lot of oxygen will

> > be `dumped' in the tissues, without being used. So the oxygen

can't

> > reach place of destination. (Which is the cell-level of

metabolic

> > activity for energy-exchange).

> >

> > Now, Ferritin is actually a `transport-proteïne', which

carries the

> > iron. I can imagine that when there's a disrupted uptake of

iron,

> > because of the malformed cells, the ferritine can also not be

> > generated. Nothing can be generated REALLY, when there's no

oxygen.

> > Am I right in my thinking?

> >

> > The `overloaded' cells show us why some of us have good HB

levels.

> > Nevertheless it doesn't measure low iron or low ferritin. It

also

> > explains why this occures with being hypo, since the entire

> > metabolism slows down, including the renuwal of bloodcells in

the

> > bone-marrow. In a way, although it is so extremely

complicated, when

> > you think about it, it seems very logic. (However, I would not

share

> > these thoughts so easy with someone who has studied the

subject more

> > thouroughly ...). So I'm not aying that what I'm writing is

correct.

> > It is just my way of thinking.

> >

> > And once you get shots, it is very hard to say what the

> > real `active' amount of B12 is in your blood. I've understood

that

> > B12 needs to be > 1000 right before the next shot. If it is

lower,

> > you need more frequent shots. Therefore, it is better to check

the

> > ferritin anyway! (Dutch B12 reference: normal between 170 - 700

> > pmol/l, is it the same as US?).

> >

> > A coated tongue, I thought, is a sign of detoxification, the

blood-

> > cells can't get rid of their metabolism's `waste-material'. Or

> > something like that . My tongue is also white coated when the

b-12

> > symptoms occur.

> > The top of my tongue has small blisters and the tissue has some

> > little red and painfull scars here and there. Last week, I had

one

> > little scar right in the middle-foldline. I also had little

scars,

> > like split skin (oohh, seeking the right words for my lacking

> > English) as excema on my fingers. I have to put a fatty cream

on it

> > all the time. (Not on my tongue ofcourse.).

> >

> > B.t.w. I had e-mailed you, but than I couldn't enter this

forum, it

> > took a few days to find out why my e-mail was `softly

bouncing'.

> > (..?????..). It sounds so funny. Than I discovered I had to

delete

> > my entire inbox-content. Didn't know I had one. GRIN, and

> > aarrrgghhhh: me and computers ...

> > (Have to get used to yahoo-groups I guess. So I have switched

off my

> > personal e-mail which means I can't get anymore personal

messages?

> > Please explain how you work with it !?).

> >

> > Margreet. (Kim).

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

What you write is so interisting. I fully agree.

And I recognize that I am one of them also!

>...... I am one of them. Even though I thought my diet was

pretty fair, I was chronically being undertreated for the last 7 yrs

or so...... <

And,

> The scariest part is that, until these two deficiencies are in the

process of causing the most damage in the body, they are not

detected as an actual anemia in the red blood cells. <

It is scary indeed. And since you have no problems with your

ferritin I now realise that those deficiencies are more complicated

than I thought.

Deep sigh, will we ever find out?

Margreet

> In any nutritional deficiency of chronic ongoing longstanding

> hypothyroidism, even if not obvious by blood tests, the metabolism

of all

> elements of this type are slowed down to the point that they can't

be used

> efficiently in the body. That slowing effect causes these

problems. If a

> person had an excellent diet, with plenty of these elements in it,

and only

> recently developed thyroid disease, then was properly treated

during that

> time, with the correct amt and type of thyroid hormone for their

body, AND

> had not other immune problems, they would be very unlikely to

develop these

> problems. It is usually the person who has been chronically

deficient of

> thyroid hormone or another chronic longstanding disease, who ends

up having

> these dificiencies. I am one of them. Even though I thought my

diet was

> pretty fair, I was chronically being undertreated for the last 7

yrs or so.

> What is scary is that a B12 deficiency can be standing for 20 yrs

or so, and

> not be discovered until well on down the line. Meanwhile, this

person is

> suffering and doesn't know why. Folate dificiency is one of the

most common

> anemias in America, but is not routinely tested for or thought of

by most

> doctors. The scariest part is that, until these two deficiencies

are in the

> process of causing the most damage in the body, they are not

detected as an

> actual anemia in the red blood cells. The reason they're usually

only

> discovered at a very grave and dangerous point is that the CBCs

ARE a very

> common blood test. Once these problems are making themselves

known in the

> red blood counts, something has to be done right now, or your life

is in

> grave danger, and that is a fact. You had better believe that I

got very

> busy on these two right away. I feel the same way about the

ferritin,

> though I've not had problems with this one.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Transportation, .... Oeps, ..... this is the word that made you

laugh? So I should say transport-system?

Yes I know ferritine is the storage, like total amount of accurate

iron in the blood. I mean, that's what someone told me who is

familiar with analizing bloodwork. He also told me that it

transports the Iron as well. Now I realise it is probably the

transferrin that he talked about. Anyway, I have no clue myself and

have no idea what is true or not.

> I suppose, but if the transportation system is

messed up, not much would be getting stored or to the red cells.<

I fully agree. Actually, when I saw my bloodwork under the

microscope, I thought, there is no oxygen in the cells. Thats why

they are flat! I've just checked my bloodwork where I had a low

ferritin (It was january 2003),

Ferritin: < 2 ( 13 - 140 ). ug/L

Transferrin: 3480 ( 2120 - 3600 ). mg/L

My transferrin is high here.

So honestly, I have no clue!

Margreet.

> The transport system FOR ferritin is the transferritin

(transportation,

> haha!). Ferritin is the already-in-storage value for iron. You

can be

> taking in plenty of iron, I suppose, but if the transportation

system is

> messed up, not much would be getting stored or to the red cells.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you sweetheart, I think you are the first person to understand

the impact of < 2 ferritin. I almost died, could barely walk and

felt I felt refrigerated like an Eskimo with no fur to wear.

But when I looked in the mirror, I looked not anemic at all, but

very healthy and bright. With red-apple cheeks, no pale skin or

whatsoever.

It was caused by severe menstrual bleeding. Yet the gynaecologist,

my endo and regular physician couldn'd find any cause for it. That's

why I didn't want to have my womb removed. I guess y'all might

understand this, right?

No stupid doctor told me I was undertreated for years with synthetic

T4. My TSH was perfect right? Like bulls-eye TSH: 1.

Well that's bull-shit to me now! And they all knew I have Graves,

and had hypo symtoms like being cold and depressed.

And yes, I've been a vegetarian my entire life! Never had any

problems with it! Honest. I know many very healthy vegetarians.

After 18 milicuries of RAI, things went down hill. For some reason,

I couldn't digest food properly.

The last year I've been on Atkins trying to lose weight. Lots of

meat and eggs there. My ferritin does not get very high. Even when I

took loads of Iron that made me sick also. It didn't work either.

Once I quit the iron-supplement, my ferritin kept on going back to

around 12. It went up to 51 after four months on Armour. It's a

miracle. And half a year ago, the menstrual loss has stopped

completely with the help of an IUD with progesterone in it.

(Mirena).

BTW, despite Atkins, I'm not losing the weight. I have been

following < 200 carbs a day, for weeks. I've given up on losing

weight. I'm planning to try upping my Armour again. Or probably

adding more T4.

You know, I'm thinking something funny. I think my cells were not

having a 'transportation' problem, but were having a problem

of 'picking up' the oxygen from the lungs. Like, when there's no HB

in the cells, oxygen can not be connected to it.

Anyway, it's all so complicated, and I'm convinced Armour is saving

my life. But any comments are welcome!

Margreet.

> Good God, look at that ferritin! THAT looks like it's not a

transport

> problem, rather an input problem! Do you not eat red meat, or are

you VERY

> longterm hypo, undertreated, or what?! If you're not eating red

meat or

> taking a load of iron, holy cow! I don't want to alarm, but I AM

alarmed.

>

>

>

>

> Re: The low down on ferritin

>

>

> > Hi ,

> >

> > Transportation, .... Oeps, ..... this is the word that made you

> > laugh? So I should say transport-system?

> >

> > Yes I know ferritine is the storage, like total amount of

accurate

> > iron in the blood. I mean, that's what someone told me who is

> > familiar with analizing bloodwork. He also told me that it

> > transports the Iron as well. Now I realise it is probably the

> > transferrin that he talked about. Anyway, I have no clue myself

and

> > have no idea what is true or not.

> >

> > > I suppose, but if the transportation system is

> > messed up, not much would be getting stored or to the red cells.<

> >

> > I fully agree. Actually, when I saw my bloodwork under the

> > microscope, I thought, there is no oxygen in the cells. Thats why

> > they are flat! I've just checked my bloodwork where I had a low

> > ferritin (It was january 2003),

> >

> > Ferritin: < 2 ( 13 - 140 ). ug/L

> > Transferrin: 3480 ( 2120 - 3600 ). mg/L

> >

> > My transferrin is high here.

> >

> > So honestly, I have no clue!

> >

> > Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Hey !

> Wow, what a story! Have you thought about having your sex hormones

tested? (estradiol, progesterone, testosterone).<

Im not sure if I have to pay for these tests myself, and what kind

of tests are available in Holland. But I'm convinced I'm an hormonal

wreck! Through all the postings here, I recognise low adrenals and I

have already checked a progesterone creme. Shocked by the price,

like 51 dollars for a small box, supply for 1 1/2 month. And it was

also plant-based, had not much confidence in it.

Also I'm worried about my parathyroids. Recently I heard that a

large dose of RAI might hit them also. It's like an extra bonus of

radiation that I never realised I could get.

So I'm overwhelmed a bit by POSSIBLE POSSIBILITIES ....

And I'm also afraid that me adding other hormones might also not

work the way I think and hope they will work.

I have to go step by step probably. , you are so experienced on

the topic, tell me: What should my first step be?

> I realize you say your IUD has progestesterone. Interesting.<

It is a very low dose, and also synthetic, so I would love to add a

progesterone-creme as well!

> Boy, you've really been through something!< Thank you.

>It's a shame we have to do our own research and treat ourselves!<

It is.

Thanks for your nice respond ....

Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Gee, If I stay with this forum long enough, I'll end up being a

doctor, and should be able to get through the exams straight

away .... And finally earn the income that I deserve .....

Thank you for explaining 'Pica'. Very interesting, and sad that

people or even animals go through this. It also reminds me of

pregnant woman's eating habits!

But I've not been on the Pica diet myself ......

I'm not that desperate yet!

> I am not feeling well the past couple of weeks because I think my

anemia is back.<

I'm not surprised. With those low levels. I feel for you.

There MUST be a way out. My levels are much higher now! When I had

them as low as you, for a prolonged time, I was afraid for cancer

due to RAI or something like that. Some people develop leukemia from

it, rare cases, I read that yesterday ....

I really feared I had not long to live.

That's over now.

Yeahh, the liver also has a hard time with anemia.

Are you sure your thyroid meds are high enough?

For some strange reason I think that my anemia vanishes when I'm

OVERDOSED. And probably I should not have animal dessicated thyroid,

but human dessicated thyroid.

I should become a cannibal!

Now I know.

What are your most recent Ft4 and Ft3?

Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Ok , if you love it.....

Shall I hunt for ignorant doctors first?

Margreet ;-))

> Hahahahahaha!!! I love it. You have made me smile for the day.

>

>

>

>

> Re: The low down on ferritin

>

>

> > Gee, If I stay with this forum long enough, I'll end up being a

> > doctor, and should be able to get through the exams straight

> > away .... And finally earn the income that I deserve .....

> >

> > Thank you for explaining 'Pica'. Very interesting, and sad that

> > people or even animals go through this. It also reminds me of

> > pregnant woman's eating habits!

> >

> > But I've not been on the Pica diet myself ......

> > I'm not that desperate yet!

> >

> > > I am not feeling well the past couple of weeks because I think

my

> > anemia is back.<

> >

> > I'm not surprised. With those low levels. I feel for you.

> > There MUST be a way out. My levels are much higher now! When I

had

> > them as low as you, for a prolonged time, I was afraid for

cancer

> > due to RAI or something like that. Some people develop leukemia

from

> > it, rare cases, I read that yesterday ....

> > I really feared I had not long to live.

> > That's over now.

> >

> > Yeahh, the liver also has a hard time with anemia.

> > Are you sure your thyroid meds are high enough?

> > For some strange reason I think that my anemia vanishes when I'm

> > OVERDOSED. And probably I should not have animal dessicated

thyroid,

> > but human dessicated thyroid.

> >

> > I should become a cannibal!

> >

> > Now I know.

> >

> > What are your most recent Ft4 and Ft3?

> >

> > Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jamy,

I can understand your concern. Probably you shouldn't bother too

much for the low transferrin, since if your ferritin is low as

well ..... because, what sense does it make for an empty train to go

from A to B?

But I agree you have a serious condition. Do you get the B12 in

shots also? Your body might deal with that better. B12-deficiency

gives liver-trouble as well.

May I ask how much Armour you take? And do you add T4 as well?

I'm really curious to know!

Margreet.

> My ferritin was 20, out of 10-310, my transferrin was below the

beginning numbers and my other iron stuff was low normal. The

problem is I can find nothing with low transferrin with low ferritin

and normal to low normal iron except very severe terminal illnesses.

Last stage of leukemia, etc. I am taking 325 mg of ferrous sulfate 2

to 3x a day.<

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

That's another interesting statement. I guess I have a stronger fear

to have extreme high ferritin levels. I understood too much of it

can damage the organs and the patient need to 'donate' blood to get

rid of the overload of iron.

Probably better then, to be kissed by a vampire .....

Margreet.

> We don't want our ferritin up in the hundreds either. See the post

someone else did on having very high ferritin and iron values. I'm

happy with my 70.<

[Guest guest]

Hi Jamy,

I'm wondering if it is better for you to quit on iron suppletion

competely. I'm saying this since it doesn't seem to help you anyway.

It might be the opposit. If you take the iron 3 times a day, it will

ABSOLUTELY interfere with your capacity to absorb the thyroid meds.

Therefore you might be chronically undertreated, in my opinion.

Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jamy,

> We had raised my thyroid meds to compensate.<

Ok, I understand better now. But I hope you don't mind I'm just

thinking loudly. I'm not saying that it is right what I feel or

think. I'm just wondering if adding iron works for you.

Because, you will get an higher dose of thyroid-hormones than you

actually need, since the iron compensates for it. But the 'overdose'

of thyroidhormones get into your system nevertheless! It may give

your heart overwork and put more stress on the organs. Your body has

to deal with it SOMEHOW. Then you can't deal with it, have to cut

back on your thyroid meds, and so the spiral goes downwards.

I feel for you since it seems a very discouraging situation.

What adrenal support do you get? (I'm sorry if you already mentioned

it).

> I felt cold again, hair falling out etc.<

That's a very clear sign of being underdosed .....

Also, if you are overweight, half of it might be hypo-weight gain

though. I think it's excellent you have added T4. This might smooth

out the symptoms of high T3 a bit. Hope it works for you!

Do you have Hashi- hypo?

BTW, today I felt like a sandbag, heavy, very very heavy. It is good

that you go slow with upping your med. Funny me, I upped my dose

straight away with 0.025 levothyroxine two weeks ago.

I bought a natural med for my chestpain and it performs wonders!!!

Pain and strong beat are gone. Amazing!

I'm still progressing, never thought that I could say that one day.

Never thought I would be able to get my bloodwork up. (Almost all my

valeus were too low, very scary. I tried to find a solution for two

years. I was desperate!). I got my bloodlevels up by gradually

increasing thyroid-meds alll the time.

I hope it's an encouragement for you.

Is it probably better to go for Iron-shots? I know they are more

expensive, but will interfere less with your thyroid meds.

And one shot will work for a few months or so.

Wish you strength and solutions ....

Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

It's a homeopathic med called Crataegus. Half an hour after I take

15 to 20 drops in a small glass of water, I feel that I'm calming

down, and a feeling of relaxation around the heartmuscle. I'm taking

it for the 3th day now. It's really a miracle med!

http://www.holistic-online.com/Remedies/Heart/heart_homeopathy-heart-

disease.htm

Margreet.

> Margreet,

>

> Can you tell me the name of this natural medicine?

> Lynda (in the UK)

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: myrazon2000

>

> I bought a natural med for my chestpain and it performs

wonders!!!

> Pain and strong beat are gone. Amazing!

>

>

>

>