Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

[Guest guest]

Hello myrazon2000,

m> Well, I think the ferritin is a more accurate measurement of your

m> active B12-metabolism. How can I explain this with my little bit of

m> English? Well, I SHOULD know better probably and try not to ……… ………

No- iron stores and B12 are independent of each other so you can have

masses of stored iron and low B12 or vice versa -mixed picture

anaemias are fairly rare but can happen eg malnutrition, anorexia

alcoholism - where you can have lack of iron, b12 and folate at the

same time

Also ferritin is also an acute phase reactant and reacts to inflammation in

the body so a high or normal ferritin can be a false result in the

presence of inflammation

m> The `overloaded' cells show us why some of us have good HB levels.

m> Nevertheless it doesn't measure low iron or low ferritin.

No-what is more likely is that Drs are not looking at the other

blood parameters to diagnose early Fe deficiency or that some

people have a Hb on the high end of the normal range which

drops with chronic disease -and this drop in Hb even though its

still within the normal range

makes a big difference for that individual.

--

Best regards,

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

mailto:alison.ashwell@...

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted.com/alisonashwell

http://www.voodoochilli.net/artists/alisonashwell/

[Guest guest]

B12, iron, and all the nutrients are necessary for red blood cell production

and oxygen transport. If we have an anemia in any one of these substances

the red blood cells will be in bad shape. B12 anemia causes some of the

cells, if not many, to be oversized. There may be a good amt of hemoglobin

in there, but the quality of it may not be good. The stages and variations

on these things are sort of staged according to the chronicity and severity

of the anemia. The pattern on the anemia of iron usually shows microcytic

anemia, meaning that the cells are too small AND the hemoglobin isn't either

very good or too small an amt or both, plus other variations. Macrocytic

anemia is almost " surefire " B12 and/or Folic Acid anemia. I don't know

about the patterns of the other nutritional anemias.

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

> Wow, Margreet (Kim),

> Thanks for this explanation! Well done! I read somewhere that ferritin is

stored iron.

> My doctor had never tested my ferritin until I asked her to.

> I don't know how to help you with Yahoo! Hopefully someone can.

> The normal range we have for B12 is 211-911 pg/ml.

> in Va.

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> You write: >`Fascinating reading your post! (You have a lovely

> name)'.<

> Thank you , You make my day!

>

> >'I get B12 shots too. I was wondering why the need to check

> ferritin levels if you get B12 shots?'.<

>

> Well, I think the ferritin is a more accurate measurement of your

> active B12-metabolism. How can I explain this with my little bit of

> English? Well, I SHOULD know better probably and try not to ... ...

>

> Personally, I believe that iron is the magic element in our body,

> since it transports the oxygen. Can you imagine anything better as a

> sign of good health than an oxygen-rich environment?

>

> A lack of B12 causes a delayed produce of new blood-cells in the

> bone-marrow. Therefore the quality of the cells can become malformed

> and smaller in amount. When that happens, their capacity to

> transport oxygen throughout the entire system is reduced. This

> explains why the heart pumps faster and beats stronger, to get the

> same job done with less fuel. (Our poor faithfull hearts ...). It

> also explains dizzyness and short breath. (Oxygen uptake is in our

> lungs).

>

> Now, what starts to happen -and this is my personal opinion- is that

> the low-down on ferritin becomes a vicious cycle. In order to

> transport oxygen, the cells need hemoglobine. With B12 shortage,

> there might be more hemoglobin `forced' in the cell because there

> are lesser cells. In that `overloaded' condition, they can't perform

> their duties well enough. As a result, a lot of oxygen will

> be `dumped' in the tissues, without being used. So the oxygen can't

> reach place of destination. (Which is the cell-level of metabolic

> activity for energy-exchange).

>

> Now, Ferritin is actually a `transport-proteïne', which carries the

> iron. I can imagine that when there's a disrupted uptake of iron,

> because of the malformed cells, the ferritine can also not be

> generated. Nothing can be generated REALLY, when there's no oxygen.

> Am I right in my thinking?

>

> The `overloaded' cells show us why some of us have good HB levels.

> Nevertheless it doesn't measure low iron or low ferritin. It also

> explains why this occures with being hypo, since the entire

> metabolism slows down, including the renuwal of bloodcells in the

> bone-marrow. In a way, although it is so extremely complicated, when

> you think about it, it seems very logic. (However, I would not share

> these thoughts so easy with someone who has studied the subject more

> thouroughly ...). So I'm not aying that what I'm writing is correct.

> It is just my way of thinking.

>

> And once you get shots, it is very hard to say what the

> real `active' amount of B12 is in your blood. I've understood that

> B12 needs to be > 1000 right before the next shot. If it is lower,

> you need more frequent shots. Therefore, it is better to check the

> ferritin anyway! (Dutch B12 reference: normal between 170 - 700

> pmol/l, is it the same as US?).

>

> A coated tongue, I thought, is a sign of detoxification, the blood-

> cells can't get rid of their metabolism's `waste-material'. Or

> something like that . My tongue is also white coated when the b-12

> symptoms occur.

> The top of my tongue has small blisters and the tissue has some

> little red and painfull scars here and there. Last week, I had one

> little scar right in the middle-foldline. I also had little scars,

> like split skin (oohh, seeking the right words for my lacking

> English) as excema on my fingers. I have to put a fatty cream on it

> all the time. (Not on my tongue ofcourse.).

>

> B.t.w. I had e-mailed you, but than I couldn't enter this forum, it

> took a few days to find out why my e-mail was `softly bouncing'.

> (..?????..). It sounds so funny. Than I discovered I had to delete

> my entire inbox-content. Didn't know I had one. GRIN, and

> aarrrgghhhh: me and computers ...

> (Have to get used to yahoo-groups I guess. So I have switched off my

> personal e-mail which means I can't get anymore personal messages?

> Please explain how you work with it !?).

>

> Margreet. (Kim).

[Guest guest]

I'm really wondering how far my body is run down.. for all the time that

I was having such trouble digesting food and not enough money to buy good

food.... I remember about two years ago.. I went on a serious bean

pigout.. I just couldn't get enough of them.. I was buying dried beans in

10 pounds sacks! I found out that beans are high in folic acid and that's

most likely why I was suddenly craving them...

And Iron... my mom raised me to know that we have tendency toward iron

deficiency, that I should always have that checked when ever I had blood

drawn.. I learned to feed my cravings for liver and Brussels sprouts... I

could easily sit down to a whole pound of beef liver with a pound of

sprouts on the side.... I also knew that when I started craving pork....

it was most likely time for a liver hit...

Now that I've started adding extra iron tabs to my mountain of pills,

taking double the RDA... I no longer have these cravings... and when I

buy a pound of liver I can cook it up and portion it to use in 7 mini

meals and be very satisfied... and I used to eat a whole pound at one

sitting?

Our bodies know what they need.. but it's hard for us to understand what

they are telling us....

If only there was a manual.. just punch in your model number and current

parameters and turn to the right page.....

*sigh*

Topper ()

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:26:15 -0500 " " writes:

> In any nutritional deficiency of chronic ongoing longstanding

> hypothyroidism, even if not obvious by blood tests, the metabolism

> of all

> elements of this type are slowed down to the point that they can't

> be used

> efficiently in the body. That slowing effect causes these problems.

> If a

> person had an excellent diet, with plenty of these elements in it,

> and only

> recently developed thyroid disease, then was properly treated during

> that

> time, with the correct amt and type of thyroid hormone for their

> body, AND

> had not other immune problems, they would be very unlikely to

> develop these

> problems. It is usually the person who has been chronically

> deficient of

> thyroid hormone or another chronic longstanding disease, who ends up

> having

> these dificiencies. I am one of them. Even though I thought my

> diet was

> pretty fair, I was chronically being undertreated for the last 7 yrs

> or so.

> What is scary is that a B12 deficiency can be standing for 20 yrs or

> so, and

> not be discovered until well on down the line. Meanwhile, this

> person is

> suffering and doesn't know why. Folate dificiency is one of the

> most common

> anemias in America, but is not routinely tested for or thought of by

> most

> doctors. The scariest part is that, until these two deficiencies

> are in the

> process of causing the most damage in the body, they are not

> detected as an

> actual anemia in the red blood cells. The reason they're usually

> only

> discovered at a very grave and dangerous point is that the CBCs ARE

> a very

> common blood test. Once these problems are making themselves known

> in the

> red blood counts, something has to be done right now, or your life

> is in

> grave danger, and that is a fact. You had better believe that I got

> very

> busy on these two right away. I feel the same way about the

> ferritin,

> though I've not had problems with this one.

>

>

[Guest guest]

The transferritin was the main problem then. I don't really understand why

it slows down though.

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

> My ferritin was very low normal but my transferrin was below the scale!

[Guest guest]

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?ArticleKey=15591

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

I've never heard of transferrin. Ferritin is stored iron, right? What's

transferrin? Sounds like

the iron being transferred?

in Va.

My ferritin was very low normal but my transferrin was below the scale!

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jamy. This is great info. My son has a friend who is anemic and doesn't

know the cause. This makes me think it would be

important to know the cause. I don't know the extent of testing she's had done.

But it's strange to me.

Thanks again.

in Va.

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?ArticleKey=15591

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

I've never heard of transferrin. Ferritin is stored iron, right? What's

transferrin? Sounds like

the iron being transferred?

in Va.

My ferritin was very low normal but my transferrin was below the scale!

[

[Guest guest]

Hi,Margreet!

Wow, what a story! Have you thought about having your sex hormones tested?

(estradiol, progesterone,

testosterone). I realize you say your IUD has progestesterone. Interesting.

But I wonder if your

hormones are out of balance? I've heard many say they are losing weight after

adding adequate

progesterone.

Boy, you've really been through something! It's a shame we have to do our own

research and treat

ourselves!

in Va.

Thank you sweetheart, I think you are the first person to understand

the impact of < 2 ferritin. I almost died, could barely walk and

felt I felt refrigerated like an Eskimo with no fur to wear.

But when I looked in the mirror, I looked not anemic at all, but

very healthy and bright. With red-apple cheeks, no pale skin or

whatsoever.

It was caused by severe menstrual bleeding. Yet the gynaecologist,

my endo and regular physician couldn'd find any cause for it. That's

why I didn't want to have my womb removed. I guess y'all might

understand this, right?

No stupid doctor told me I was undertreated for years with synthetic

T4. My TSH was perfect right? Like bulls-eye TSH: 1.

Well that's bull-shit to me now! And they all knew I have Graves,

and had hypo symtoms like being cold and depressed.

And yes, I've been a vegetarian my entire life! Never had any

problems with it! Honest. I know many very healthy vegetarians.

After 18 milicuries of RAI, things went down hill. For some reason,

I couldn't digest food properly.

The last year I've been on Atkins trying to lose weight. Lots of

meat and eggs there. My ferritin does not get very high. Even when I

took loads of Iron that made me sick also. It didn't work either.

Once I quit the iron-supplement, my ferritin kept on going back to

around 12. It went up to 51 after four months on Armour. It's a

miracle. And half a year ago, the menstrual loss has stopped

completely with the help of an IUD with progesterone in it.

(Mirena).

BTW, despite Atkins, I'm not losing the weight. I have been

following < 200 carbs a day, for weeks. I've given up on losing

weight. I'm planning to try upping my Armour again. Or probably

adding more T4.

You know, I'm thinking something funny. I think my cells were not

having a 'transportation' problem, but were having a problem

of 'picking up' the oxygen from the lungs. Like, when there's no HB

in the cells, oxygen can not be connected to it.

Anyway, it's all so complicated, and I'm convinced Armour is saving

my life. But any comments are welcome!

Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Test Date prior to Armour 6/3/03

My Frees didn't get tested the first time...too bad...

TIBC was 321 Range 240-450

Iron was 175H Range 30-160

% Saturation 55H Range 20-50

Ferritin 18 Range 11-307

TSH 2.08 Range 0.40-4.20

Cholesterol 231 Range 100-200

Test after 120mg of Armour 8/27/03

TIBC 274 Range 240-450

Iron 76 Range 30-160

% Saturation 28 Range 20-50

Ferritin NOT tested this time

TSH 0.03 Range 0.40-4.20

Cholesterol 187Range 150-200

Free T4 1.3 Range 0.7-1.6

Free T3 4.5H Range 2.2-4.0

T3 Uptake 39H Range 23-37

Total T3 203H Range 70-180

DHEA 3.4 Range 1.9-7.6

Testosterone 15 Range 4-70

)

Now I'm really curious as to what ranges I would test at now...since these

are so old..

[Guest guest]

Here is what the book says PICA is. I remember they gave the horse iron and

magnesium.

What Is Pica?

The name " pica " comes from the Latin word for magpie, a bird known for its large

and indiscriminate appetite.

Persons with pica most frequently crave and consume non-food items such as dirt,

clay, paint chips, plaster, chalk, cornstarch, laundry starch, baking soda,

coffee grounds, cigarette ashes, burnt match heads, cigarette butts, and rust.

Glue, hair, buttons, paper, sand, toothpaste, soap, oyster shells, and broken

crockery also have been cited in pica cases.

Although consumption of some items may be harmless, pica is considered to be a

serious eating disorder, sometimes resulting in serious health problems such as

lead poisoning and iron-deficiency anemia.

I am not feeling well the past couple of weeks because I think my anemia is

back. Compared to what I was this time last year, I am great. Now I have also

been eating carbs which I usually don't do. My color is still good, but I think

I may have liver issues or something. There is still a piece of the puzzle

missing for me. Now I am one of the ones that will always need ion it seems ,

but the low transferrin and ferritin and low iron has me worried. I take CoQ10,

liquid vitamins, selenium, b-12 folic acid, 325 mg of iron 2x a day, alpha

lipoic acid, special high b complex

----- Original Message -----

From: myrazon2000

Strange enough I'm happy to hear this affirmation. Because I hope it

will be resolved once I'm euthyroid! And it gives an understanding &

reason for the suffering. It's not between my ears .....

That's why I'm addicted to my computer nowadays, and thanks for

sharing YOUR experience.

> Now I knew someone who's horse at pica which was a vitamin

deficiency so it would eat the fence, etc.<

The question I would like to ask you is: How do you feel? With all

these low numbers you must feel very bad! Do you have hypo symptoms?

And may I ask you what you do for supplements, diet and what dose of

meds you are on?

Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Craving ice is usually from low iron...I had that before...

You should try taking your iron between meals on an empty stomach along with

NF Formulas Buffered Vitamin C Powder.

http://www.integrativeinc.com/products/display.asp?id=1419 & cpmid=1352

This is what I use...

Buffered Vitamin C with Echinacea

Natural Immune Support?

Product Numbers: 213002

Product Quantities: 12 oz (340 g)

NF's vitamin C powder formula is enhanced with a low dose of

echinacea extract, and incorporates electrolytes including calcium,

magnesium, and potassium. This pleasant-tasting powder is naturally flavored

with orange juice crystals. Minerals are added for their buffereing action;

citric acid is added to enhance effervescence.

Product Brand: NF Formulas

Directions: Take 1 serving (2 scoops) a day, mixed with beverage.

Serving Size: 2 Scoops (approx 5.4 g) Amount/Serving %DV

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid USP) 1.5 g 2500 %

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Calcium (as calcium carbonate) 396 mg 40 %

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Magnesium (as magnesium carbonate) 324 mg 81 %

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Potassium (as potassium bicarbonate) 104 mg 3 %

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Citric Acid 925 mg *

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Echinacea purpurea

aerial parts ^4:1 15 mg *

--------------------------------------------------------------------

*Daily Value (DV) not established.

Other Ingredients: Orange juice crystals

^ powdered extract

Minerals are added for their buffering action.

Citric acid is added to enhance effervescence.

Notes: Keep Out of the Reach of Children

If you are pregnant or nursing, seek the advice of your physician

before using this or any product.

Store in a dry place at 59-86°F (15-30°C).

Tamper evident - do not use if safety seal is broken or missing

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

> Here is what the book says PICA is. I remember they gave the horse iron

and magnesium.

> What Is Pica?

> The name " pica " comes from the Latin word for magpie, a bird known for its

large and indiscriminate appetite.

>

> Persons with pica most frequently crave and consume non-food items such as

dirt, clay, paint chips, plaster, chalk, cornstarch, laundry starch, baking

soda, coffee grounds, cigarette ashes, burnt match heads, cigarette butts,

and rust. Glue, hair, buttons, paper, sand, toothpaste, soap, oyster shells,

and broken crockery also have been cited in pica cases.

>

> Although consumption of some items may be harmless, pica is considered to

be a serious eating disorder, sometimes resulting in serious health problems

such as lead poisoning and iron-deficiency anemia.

>

> I am not feeling well the past couple of weeks because I think my anemia

is back. Compared to what I was this time last year, I am great. Now I have

also been eating carbs which I usually don't do. My color is still good,

but I think I may have liver issues or something. There is still a piece of

the puzzle missing for me. Now I am one of the ones that will always need

ion it seems , but the low transferrin and ferritin and low iron has me

worried. I take CoQ10, liquid vitamins, selenium, b-12 folic acid, 325 mg of

iron 2x a day, alpha lipoic acid, special high b complex

[Guest guest]

OK, Margreet,

I get everyone mixed up. LOL So I can't remember exactly what you are already

taking. ARe you

taking Armour? Do you feel you are still adjusting it? I've always heard the

adrenals should be first.

You can order a test that will check your estradiol, progesterone, testosterone,

cortisol and DHEA-S

all at once. However, the test I had only checked the cortisol and DHEA-S one

time, in the morning.

There are tests that give you a better picture that tests the cortisol four

times a day. I would think that

would be a good starting place. (Anyone else? What do you think?) I would think

you'd get your

regular doctor to test your parathyroids, so you could go ahead and do that any

time. Might be a good

thing to do and put your mind at ease. Then test your progesterone, estradiol,

testosterone. (However,

you might find a way to test these hormones all at once and then begin by

treating the adrenals if needed,

then add in the other hormones. Don't forget the women's international pharmacy

might be helpful to you.

You can go to their website and order their free packet.

I don't know if I helped you or not. Don't know if I left anything out. But also

consider joining the alternative

HRT list. (naturalalternativestoHRT ) You can go to the files

there and find out how to order

progesterone cream at a discount. It's 4.2 oz. for 19.40. (I don't know how

that relates to your currency, but

you can find out.) You definitely don't need to pay 51 dollars! However, I know

my month's supply at the

compounded pharmacy is going to be around that or more. But this is not just

progesterone.

Good luck to you!

Hope you get feeling better!

in Va.

Hey !

> Wow, what a story! Have you thought about having your sex hormones

tested? (estradiol, progesterone, testosterone).<

Im not sure if I have to pay for these tests myself, and what kind

of tests are available in Holland. But I'm convinced I'm an hormonal

wreck! Through all the postings here, I recognise low adrenals and I

have already checked a progesterone creme. Shocked by the price,

like 51 dollars for a small box, supply for 1 1/2 month. And it was

also plant-based, had not much confidence in it.

Also I'm worried about my parathyroids. Recently I heard that a

large dose of RAI might hit them also. It's like an extra bonus of

radiation that I never realised I could get.

So I'm overwhelmed a bit by POSSIBLE POSSIBILITIES ....

And I'm also afraid that me adding other hormones might also not

work the way I think and hope they will work.

I have to go step by step probably. , you are so experienced on

the topic, tell me: What should my first step be?

> I realize you say your IUD has progestesterone. Interesting.<

It is a very low dose, and also synthetic, so I would love to add a

progesterone-creme as well!

> Boy, you've really been through something!< Thank you.

>It's a shame we have to do our own research and treat ourselves!<

It is.

Thanks for your nice respond ....

Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Hers tells me that her transportation system is in working order, but it may

not have many passengers (maybe doesn't eat red meat? or is in a chronically

hypothyroid state or another chronic illness). I can't remember what your

ferritin was, but if you are/were taking in a lot of iron, it might have

made up for the transport problem, I don't know.

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

>

>

> Good God, look at that ferritin! THAT looks like it's not a transport

> problem, rather an input problem! Do you not eat red meat, or are you

VERY

> longterm hypo, undertreated, or what?! If you're not eating red meat or

> taking a load of iron, holy cow! I don't want to alarm, but I AM

alarmed.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

I admit I haven't read the link yet. But when I took iron on an empty stomach, I

vomited!

Does this powder make the difference?

in Va.

Craving ice is usually from low iron...I had that before...

You should try taking your iron between meals on an empty stomach along with

NF Formulas Buffered Vitamin C Powder.

http://www.integrativeinc.com/products/display.asp?id=1419 & cpmid=1352

[Guest guest]

My ferritin was 20, out of 10-310, my transferrin was below the beginning

numbers and my other iron stuff was low normal. The problem is I can find

nothing with low transferrin with low ferritin and normal to low normal iron

except very severe terminal illnesses. Last stage of leukemia, etc. I am taking

325 mg of ferrous sulfate 2 to 3x a day.

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

Hers tells me that her transportation system is in working order, but it may

not have many passengers (maybe doesn't eat red meat? or is in a chronically

hypothyroid state or another chronic illness). I can't remember what your

ferritin was, but if you are/were taking in a lot of iron, it might have

made up for the transport problem, I don't know.

[Guest guest]

It is our metabolism that causes our body to be able to carry all these

things around in the body. Mess up the metabolism, and none of it is going

to go anywhere, until it's corrected. Production of everything good,

transporting everything from one place to another in the body, is totally

slowed down or even stopped. Oxygen transportation is one of the main

things that makes our blood cells do what they do. If the nutrients aren't

going where they're supposed to, nothing is going to go where it is supposed

to. The transferritin or whatever the technical name is for it, is the way

that the iron gets carried to where it's supposed to go. There are so many

anemias in chronic hypo, that it just amazes me that MOST doctors do not

immediately check for anemia the second they discover they have a hypo

patient. Here we are, having to run these tests ourselves. It is a shame

to the profession.

Re: The low down on ferritin

> Thank you sweetheart, I think you are the first person to understand

> the impact of < 2 ferritin. I almost died, could barely walk and

> felt I felt refrigerated like an Eskimo with no fur to wear.

>

> But when I looked in the mirror, I looked not anemic at all, but

> very healthy and bright. With red-apple cheeks, no pale skin or

> whatsoever.

>

> It was caused by severe menstrual bleeding. Yet the gynaecologist,

> my endo and regular physician couldn'd find any cause for it. That's

> why I didn't want to have my womb removed. I guess y'all might

> understand this, right?

>

> No stupid doctor told me I was undertreated for years with synthetic

> T4. My TSH was perfect right? Like bulls-eye TSH: 1.

> Well that's bull-shit to me now! And they all knew I have Graves,

> and had hypo symtoms like being cold and depressed.

>

> And yes, I've been a vegetarian my entire life! Never had any

> problems with it! Honest. I know many very healthy vegetarians.

> After 18 milicuries of RAI, things went down hill. For some reason,

> I couldn't digest food properly.

>

> The last year I've been on Atkins trying to lose weight. Lots of

> meat and eggs there. My ferritin does not get very high. Even when I

> took loads of Iron that made me sick also. It didn't work either.

> Once I quit the iron-supplement, my ferritin kept on going back to

> around 12. It went up to 51 after four months on Armour. It's a

> miracle. And half a year ago, the menstrual loss has stopped

> completely with the help of an IUD with progesterone in it.

> (Mirena).

>

> BTW, despite Atkins, I'm not losing the weight. I have been

> following < 200 carbs a day, for weeks. I've given up on losing

> weight. I'm planning to try upping my Armour again. Or probably

> adding more T4.

>

> You know, I'm thinking something funny. I think my cells were not

> having a 'transportation' problem, but were having a problem

> of 'picking up' the oxygen from the lungs. Like, when there's no HB

> in the cells, oxygen can not be connected to it.

>

> Anyway, it's all so complicated, and I'm convinced Armour is saving

> my life. But any comments are welcome!

>

> Margreet.

[Guest guest]

I thought that if transferritin was low, that meant that iron was not being

transported into storage, since it is what carries it to where it is

supposed to go. What is the logic in a high transferritin with a low

ferritin? That does not make sense to me at all. There can also be a gut

problem because I was reading that there is a particular part of the

intestine that absorbs iron, and, if it is not in good shape, the iron won't

be absorbed there properly. Can't remember what part of the gut that is.

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

> well, I can shed a bit of light on this I think. Many undertreated thyroid

people have severe absorption issues. Even with heavy menstruation, a normal

diet will bring the ferritin levels up. Maybe not through the roof, but most

assuredly over 2 or up to the low normal levels. When I am looking at the

ferritin issue and like I am looking a lot because I have something I

can't find anywhere, it seems many people once they get their thyroid med

levels up and bring the ferritin levels up with iron, that then they can

live a normal life without constant iron replacement. Now if Pam is on this

list, she will like this, the only variant seems to be that people that eat

any sugar or flour seem to continue to have an absorption issue, thus need

iron. I intend to ask Janie now that she is back if she ever eats any bread,

cake, sugar etc., because I know she is a person that still needs to take

iron. Now ask me what research from experts on this, none. This is from

watching many !

> of us on the boards and then asking for their habits to see if what I am

seeing for me is true for most.

> Now I knew someone who's horse at pica which was a vitamin deficiency so

it would eat the fence, etc. I will bet I get some response on this.

> While I am at it, I have found nothing on my condition. My ferritin was

20, but my transferrin or tibc was below the scale. Now for most anemia if

the ferritin is low the transferrin is elevated or visa versa. My iron was

low normal as well. Has anyone found anything on low ferritin and low

transferrin at the same time that iron was not elevated?

[Guest guest]

Mine is always at a 60 or 70. It probably was much higher (which is not

good either because of oxidation issues) before I got this disease. I never

even took prenatals during my pregnancies because I was so healthy, with

good rich blood. We're talking about 25 yrs later here, though. The

ferritin of 60 or so is supposed to be a good figure, supposedly, from

everything I've read. I've been taking these levels every 3 months, since I

started with HealthCheck, and since I began on Armour.

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

> Lordy my ferritin a year ago was 18 ...Range 11-307

>

> I do my iron between meals with buffered vit c powder...I need to get

tested

> again...my iron has always been low..

>

>

[Guest guest]

You were taking in plenty (serum iron), but it was going nowhere because it

couldn't get into storage.

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

> Test Date prior to Armour 6/3/03

>

> TIBC was 321 Range 240-450

> Iron was 175H Range 30-160

> % Saturation 55H Range 20-50

> Ferritin 18 Range 11-307

> TSH 2.08 Range 0.40-4.20

>

> Curious?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Read the post I made on gut absorption issues. I do not take iron, have no

ferritin problems, but I do eat sugary sweets, coffee with sugar, love

breads, cakes, etc.....like honey bee. I also know someone who has pica,

and she literally gets a friend of hers to get clay from a brickyard. I

told her she is going to poison herself because it is not pure. I also told

here that she's craving minerals. She says that it was her grandmother who

started this, so it's a family tradition, but maybe it started because their

family may not have known that it was mineral craving way back there. I

believe Northern Africa and some other countries have a traditional thing

about this, but that's probably because they only knew that they felt better

after eating the stuff. It can stop up the intestines and cause a lot of

problems.

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

> Here is what the book says PICA is. I remember they gave the horse iron

and magnesium.

> What Is Pica?

> The name " pica " comes from the Latin word for magpie, a bird known for its

large and indiscriminate appetite.

>

> Persons with pica most frequently crave and consume non-food items such as

dirt, clay, paint chips, plaster, chalk, cornstarch, laundry starch, baking

soda, coffee grounds, cigarette ashes, burnt match heads, cigarette butts,

and rust. Glue, hair, buttons, paper, sand, toothpaste, soap, oyster shells,

and broken crockery also have been cited in pica cases.

>

> Although consumption of some items may be harmless, pica is considered to

be a serious eating disorder, sometimes resulting in serious health problems

such as lead poisoning and iron-deficiency anemia.

>

> I am not feeling well the past couple of weeks because I think my anemia

is back. Compared to what I was this time last year, I am great. Now I have

also been eating carbs which I usually don't do. My color is still good,

but I think I may have liver issues or something. There is still a piece of

the puzzle missing for me. Now I am one of the ones that will always need

ion it seems , but the low transferrin and ferritin and low iron has me

worried. I take CoQ10, liquid vitamins, selenium, b-12 folic acid, 325 mg of

iron 2x a day, alpha lipoic acid, special high b complex

[Guest guest]

Hahahahahaha!!! I love it. You have made me smile for the day.

Re: The low down on ferritin

> Gee, If I stay with this forum long enough, I'll end up being a

> doctor, and should be able to get through the exams straight

> away .... And finally earn the income that I deserve .....

>

> Thank you for explaining 'Pica'. Very interesting, and sad that

> people or even animals go through this. It also reminds me of

> pregnant woman's eating habits!

>

> But I've not been on the Pica diet myself ......

> I'm not that desperate yet!

>

> > I am not feeling well the past couple of weeks because I think my

> anemia is back.<

>

> I'm not surprised. With those low levels. I feel for you.

> There MUST be a way out. My levels are much higher now! When I had

> them as low as you, for a prolonged time, I was afraid for cancer

> due to RAI or something like that. Some people develop leukemia from

> it, rare cases, I read that yesterday ....

> I really feared I had not long to live.

> That's over now.

>

> Yeahh, the liver also has a hard time with anemia.

> Are you sure your thyroid meds are high enough?

> For some strange reason I think that my anemia vanishes when I'm

> OVERDOSED. And probably I should not have animal dessicated thyroid,

> but human dessicated thyroid.

>

> I should become a cannibal!

>

> Now I know.

>

> What are your most recent Ft4 and Ft3?

>

> Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Oh boy that's not good...

I can't remember...have you had your iron tested lately?

I'm taking Carlson brand Chelated Iron 27mg per tablet 1 a day. I don't get

a stomach ache from mine..maybe you should take yours with a meal far away

from your Armour <if you're on it>

Vitamin C really really helps your body use the iron. Even if you ate an

orange with your iron it may help...

I'm sorry about your stomach...

)

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

> Hi, ,

> I admit I haven't read the link yet. But when I took iron on an empty

stomach, I vomited!

> Does this powder make the difference?

> in Va.

>

[Guest guest]

Excess Iron Damages Blood Vessels

Although iron is an essential and important nutrient, excessive levels

can cause significant harm. A new study has shown that excess iron can cause

damage to the endothelium, the inner lining of blood vessels, boosting a

person's chances of developing hardening of the arteries (atherosclerosis)

and heart attack.

The mechanism of action of this effect seems to be that the high iron

levels impede the action of nitric oxide, a chemical released by the

endothelium, which aids in keeping blood vessels relaxed.

According to study lead investigator Dr. Hidehiro Matsuoka of Kurume

Medical School, consuming high amounts of iron over the long term may

increase iron levels in the body. He also said that people should get

regularly tested for high iron levels if they are over 40 and have other

risk factors for heart disease, such as high blood pressure or diabetes.

a.. Researchers injected 10 healthy volunteers with high doses of

iron (0.7 milligrams per kilogram body weight) and used ultrasound imaging

to observe arterial wall functioning.

b.. The excess iron raised levels of malondialdehyde, a chemical

marker for oxidation, and inhibited normal endothelial function.

c.. As a separate part of the study, researchers also monitored the

effects of lowering iron blood levels in 10 cigarette smokers and found that

this caused endothelial function to return to normal.

The study also could help to explain why premenopausal women have less

heart disease, since iron is removed from the body each month during

menstruation.

Meeting of the American Heart Association's Council for High Blood

Pressure Research October 2000

[Guest guest]

This is good sound advice. The International Antiaging Systems site also

has good info on this. This is one good reason why I am not concerned about

bringing my ferritin up over 70. We don't want ferritin levels going on up

in the hundreds. I think that it was IAS who compared this sort of to the

" rusting " process on metal. Iron causes a high oxidation in the body, yet

we can't live without it. There IS a happy medium here.

Re: Re: The low down on ferritin

> Excess Iron Damages Blood Vessels

[Guest guest]

This isn't a research answer, but what I'm thinking is that it's not much

chance to put much into storage because the body is using up every single

thing it can get to go to all your body parts, red blood cells, etc....Then

there's not much left over to store any more, in other words, you may be

" right on the edge " most of the time. We don't want our ferritin up in the

hundreds either. See the post someone else did on having very high ferritin

and iron values. I'm happy with my 70.

Re: The low down on ferritin

> Hey ,

>

> I agree that eating meat is very good for building blood.

> I'm one of those vegetarians that disagree with meat not being

> healthy.

> I think it is very nutritious.

> I noticed that when I started Atkins, my HB got as high as it is

> now. Completely up. However, my ferritin remained low.

>

> Probably this gives you more of a clue? I like your research!

>

> Margreet.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Margreet,

I have been a vegetarian and do like it. But after awhile I do find I crave meat

at

times. What I don't like mostly about meat is the antibiotics and growth

hormones

added. Buying organic is expensive. So I prefer to minimize the amount of meat

I eat. And I eat organic eggs.

in Va.

-----

Hey ,

I agree that eating meat is very good for building blood.

I'm one of those vegetarians that disagree with meat not being

healthy.

I think it is very nutritious.

I noticed that when I started Atkins, my HB got as high as it is

now. Completely up. However, my ferritin remained low.

Probably this gives you more of a clue? I like your research!

Margreet.

---