Article

[Guest guest]

http://cda.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-534,subcat-FOOD.html

I quote:

Because carbohydrate is the food that raises the blood glucose, which is

responsible for the complications of diabetes, it seems right to recommend a

diet that is lower in carbohydrate than previously suggested. Furthermore, a

major source of coronary artery disease in diabetes is the insulin resistance

syndrome. Because increased carbohydrate triggers increased triglyceride, which

is the beginning of a number of abnormalities that lead to increased coronary

artery disease, recommending less carbohydrate on this basis as well seems

prudent. [Emphasis added.]

Which prompts me to say, " Well. . . duh! "

Why, then, do some people bill high-carb foods as 'diabetic friendly', and get

bent out of shape when people disagree with that designation, or suggest

modifications that would lower the carbs?

[Guest guest]

>> I realize there is a mindset about lowcarb here and other places -

BUT the best thing anyone can do for type 2 is lose 40 - 60 pounds

and generally that is best done by complex carbs and no fats/low

protein.

>

I don't do Atkins but I do eat a reduced carb diet. All I have to go

on is my own experience, but by reducing carbs in my diet and

increasing exercise I got my BG down to non-diabetic levels (from A1c

of 10.7 to the low 5s or high 4s), lost 65 pounds, brought my

triglycerides down from the 400s to the 80s, my cholesterol down from

the high 300s to 180s (increasing HDL and decreasing LDL) and

multiplied my energy level 10-fold. All of this in about 7 months,

without medication. Have maintained this diet and these levels now

for the past year. My doctor says she can't argue with success. She

feels that as long as I maintain this I have no more risk of heart

disease than the average non-diabetic. My blood pressure is also

great, again with no medication. See my before and after pictures in

the group photo album if you want to see the difference it made.

YMMV, but it has made a huge difference in me, to the point that

people stop me in the halls at work almost daily to ask how I did it,

even after a year has gone by.

Christy

[Guest guest]

To clarify, there is really nothing that can be put under the label of

" the Atkins diet, " since there are various phases of the Atkins plan.

There is Induction, which is very strict, with only 20 carbs per day,

taken in the form of vegetables (salad type and/or broccoli/cauliflower/

etc.). This 2-week period is to help people who are addicted to

carbohydrates get them out of their systems, and I found it to be

very helpful since all the cravings were gone after 3-4 days.

After that the individual can add back 5 carbs per day, adding 5 more

each week thereafter UNTIL weight loss has stopped. You then take

5 away and are back losing weight. The diet can have a pretty large

amount of carbs, and I believe he talks about people who eat 100 or

more,

but it's relatively rare to find anyone eating that many while still in

the

weight loss phase.

As for fat, yes, it's high in fat, but no where is it required that this

be

saturated fat or ALL saturated fat. In fact, polys and monos are listed

as preferred sources, and this falls in line with much of the current

research that shows that low fat is NOT what we should aim for. The

doctors aren't yet to the 60% zone, but more and more are seeing that

the lower the fat intake, the more health problems, while adding more

" good " fats is relieving some of these same problems.

It does seem to defy common sense, but if we look back, to the 60s

and early 70s, we were not all that concerned about fats at that time.

The

original studies that supposedly showed that fats cause health problems

were done using dietary guidelines that had pretty large carb intake as

well, and it's postulated (and maybe proven, not sure) that fats without

the large amount of carbs are not harmful while eating large amounts of

fats WITH large amounts of carbs IS harmful. In other words, eating

a Big Mac with french fries and a large Coke is a big no-no. :-)

The AHA also made a statement that they were surprised, but it

definitely

needed more research. They wouldn't think about changing their dietary

recommendations until they saw more research. But, the fact that they

even are thinking in that direction speaks for itself.

I don't have one of the older Atkins books to check on the fish oil

thing,

but Atkins himself has always been a big advocate of supplementation.

Your last statement is very good, covers alot. One can eat low carb,

whether Atkins or not (my diet is a modified Atkins, but modified by

learning about my own body), and avoid saturated fat until the facts are

in, which is what many people do. Eggs have already been vindicated

as " people killers, " and perhaps meat will too...

Cheryl

> From: Dean,

>

> But, yes, Atkins followers can be getting as much as 60% of

> their calories from fat.

>

> Not only does the insulin response essentially take a person out

> of fat-burning mode and put them in fat-storing mode, it also

> causes a spike in triglycerides. While it defies common sense,

> and current health preachings, without the carbs triglycerides

> and complete lipid profiles can improve with ketogenic diets.

>

> A recent study (completed last fall) put Atkins and the American

> Heart Association plans head to head testing blood profiles

> before and after the program. The AHA was the often touted

> high carb low fat diet. At the end of the study the Atkins

> group had better blood profiles than the AHA group.

>

> The Atkins diet does call for fish oil supplementation -- don't

> know if that has always been part of the program.

>

> I don't care to go on a low-carb/ketogenic diet; however, more

> and more research seems to be vindicating them as not being the

> artery clogging death diets many people make them out to be.

[Guest guest]

Fabulous, Christy! I hate to say you're " normal " for low carbers, but

the story goes the same way, time after time, which is fabulous! May I

ask how many carbs you're eating? As I said in another post, I'm doing

a modification of Atkins, in that I did induction to get rid of my

cravings,

and then made changes that work for me. I'm losing weight slowly,

between 1/2 and 1 pound per week, but feeling great. My doctor says

it's the best diet for me, as a diabetic with high lipids. The best

thing,

however, is the amount of energy I have now... a total gift!

Cheryl

> From: Christy Stouffer

> I don't do Atkins but I do eat a reduced carb diet. All I have to go

> on is my own experience, but by reducing carbs in my diet and

> increasing exercise I got my BG down to non-diabetic levels (from A1c

> of 10.7 to the low 5s or high 4s), lost 65 pounds, brought my

> triglycerides down from the 400s to the 80s, my cholesterol down from

> the high 300s to 180s (increasing HDL and decreasing LDL) and

> multiplied my energy level 10-fold. All of this in about 7 months,

> without medication. Have maintained this diet and these levels now

> for the past year. My doctor says she can't argue with success. She

> feels that as long as I maintain this I have no more risk of heart

> disease than the average non-diabetic. My blood pressure is also

> great, again with no medication. See my before and after pictures in

[Guest guest]

Ah, yes. Okay, cure in that sense is what I would call a

remission. :-) As far as Atkins and the clogging of the arteries,

that's based on the mindset of those who think Atkins is

a diet of eating nothing but saturated fat and of those who

believe that saturated fat is what causes cardiac disease. Neither

of those things is completely true, as I mentioned. Atkins can

be done completely without saturated fat, if one wants, and

saturated fat is only " maybe " the cause of heart disease from

arteriosclerosis. More studies need to be done to see for

sure, and I'm hopeful they will do them.

Cheryl

> From: Hansen

>

> Hi. In my mind a " cure " is a long term relief from the

> problem - as long as I do the right stuff. Just like with

> my bp - if I do the right stuff it stays down. Sometimes I

> do, and sometimes not <G>

>

> I got the problem <any problem> by not following good health

> habits. I am cured unless I go back to that or a similar problem.

>

> I realize or have read that adkins does that too, but I've

> also read that there is heavy clogging of the arteries and

> veins because of the fats.

>

> I can't say that for sure, just reporting what I've read.

[Guest guest]

Actually that's about what I'm hoping to get to... eventually. I plan

to keep adding one new food every couple of weeks and assess

the impact on my BG. They will all be veggies and fruits with only

a few grains since I know that too many grains make me want more.

Of course, for me, that 75-100 will be without subtracting the fiber,

so it will probably be more like 60-80 since I try and eat a lot of

fiber in my diet due to other (past) medical problems.Sounds like

you have a good handle on what works for you. :-)

Cheryl

> From: Christy Stouffer

>

> I eat around 75 to 100 grams of carbs a day, so I guess I'd fall into

> the classification of a moderate carber, but almost all the carbs I

> eat are from fruits and vegetables, with a few high fiber starches

> mixed in occasionally. I eat lean meats, a lot of fish, and eat a

> slightly larger portion of meat or protein than is recommended by the

> ADA per meal, closer to 6 ounces than the three they recommend. I

> increased my protein and unsaturated fat intake once I had lost all

> the weight I wanted to, just to stabilize and maintain my weight.

> I'm 5'7 " , 46 years old, and weigh 124 pounds.

[Guest guest]

Good point, Bruce...I've often wondered why myself. And why does the ADA

keep recommending the food pyramid, with the emphasis on " healthy carbs " as

the biggest portion? I can only believe that the ADA has a vested interest

in keeping diabetics sick. After all, who are one of their biggest

contributors? (I have a list somewhere in my archives and the Kellogg people

are right there among the top ones).

The bigger question is why do docs and other medical professionals follow the

ADA guidelines so blindly?

Well, maybe things are changing...albeit very slowly...

Vicki

In a message dated 04/25/2003 1:10:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

brucewilson@... writes:

> Why, then, do some people bill high-carb foods as 'diabetic friendly', and

> get bent out of shape when people disagree with that designation, or

> suggest modifications that would lower the carbs?

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'll definitely argue with you on that, ...eating a lot of complex carbs

will NOT help you lose weight. And eating fatty foods doesn't MAKE you fat.

Vicki

In a message dated 04/25/2003 1:53:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

genna@... writes:

> I realize there is a mindset about lowcarb here and other places - BUT the

> best thing anyone can do for type 2 is lose 40 - 60 pounds and generally

> that is best done by complex carbs and no fats/low protein.

>