puppy

[Guest guest]

OK, so we got one. Not a real dog fan -- but out numbered. is very

hard on the dog. She is being crated, but, as my older son points out -- why

punish the dog, as is being hard on her. But how many times can we

scream, time out, go to room, call Santa, distract.

I try to explain and he swears SORRY, but in 2 seconds its the same. I

explain she is a baby puppy, soft touch, no lifting by back legs.

It seems he is really not getting it. He practically smothers her.

Any hints?

Lori

mother to 4.4 verbal apraxia and Tasha 7 weeks Olde English Bulldog

[Guest guest]

What I did with Hope and Faith when we first got Mystic was they could only

play with her when I was right there. We got Mystic back in January so Hope

was 2 1/2 and Faith was 14 months. They only played with her when I was on

the floor with them, they only tried hugging her when I was holding her, and

of course being a puppy and house training if I wasn't right there in the

room with her she was in her crate, or she was with me in the office. It

worked out really well. I explained to Hope that the puppy had to stay with

mommy until she learned to potty outside. Hope was ok with that. Faith was

a bit too young to undertand it, but she went along with it. We never had a

time when they got too rough with her.

Now the girls like to lay on her. they'll be watching tv and Mystic will be

laying so nice and quiet, then the girls come over going " puppy. hug " .

then she gets a big hug and which ever one did the hugging lays on her for a

while. Mystic just looks at them, gives them a little lick, and that's it.

Toni

[Guest guest]

Lori-

Get " Good Owners, Great Dogs " by Kilcommons, and Toni's advice about not

allowing them to play together unless you are supervising is absolutely correct!

Best wishes. Dogs are such a gift!

lorijla@... wrote:

OK, so we got one. Not a real dog fan -- but out numbered. is very

hard on the dog. She is being crated, but, as my older son points out -- why

punish the dog, as is being hard on her. But how many times can we

scream, time out, go to room, call Santa, distract.

I try to explain and he swears SORRY, but in 2 seconds its the same. I

explain she is a baby puppy, soft touch, no lifting by back legs.

It seems he is really not getting it. He practically smothers her.

Any hints?

Lori

mother to 4.4 verbal apraxia and Tasha 7 weeks Olde English Bulldog

[Guest guest]

Not allowing them to play together without being supervised is the big key.

Any dog can turn nasty after enough bad experiences, but with dogs in the

Mastiff lineage (including Mastiff, Bulldog, Shar-pei, Chow, Rottweilier,

and Pit Bull Terrier) it's common. Those dogs you have to be careful when

they're young so they dont imprint more bad experiences than good. Dogs in

that line all get to be powerful, and some large as well. If they imprint

with too many bad experiecnes, then they can be a handful or worse. Of

course dogs in that line can also be the sweetest, most gentle and loyal

dogs you ever want to see too. It all depends on how they get treated.

Mystic is now a year old. We had her in obedience training when she was 13

weeks old and we've gone from there. We had a time or two where she would

try to assert dominance over Hope, but we nipped that in the bud real quick.

She answers to voice commands and hand signals. I made up hand signals as

we were in obedience class and they stuck. But now Hope can give her a

command and she does it.

Hubby has a problem getting her to listen. It's pretty bad when he tells

her " down " and gets ignored. Hope comes over, claps, and gives her the hand

signal and she does it. :-) Of course he's not home much during the week

so when I started obedience training with Mystic it was me alone in class.

Then at home when we worked on things it was me and the girls. After Mystic

learned not to snap a treat out of my hand, I enlisted Hope to help. Hope

had the treat bag and when Mystic did well, Hope gave her the treats. Our

instructor said we'd know the dog mastered taking treats easy when we felt

the dog could be trusted to take treats from a 2 year old's hand. I laughed

at that one. At one point I was playing around and balanced a treat between

my nose and my lip and let Mystic take it. Later on Hope copied it. Not a

recommended action, but she's gentle enough to take them and not hurt

anyone.

Just dont let someone she doesn't know come into the yard and approach the

girls. My brother-in-law popped in one day and scooped up Hope for a hug in

the yard. Mystic came running and just about took his hand off to get him

away from Hope. Now she's gotten to know the entire family and is ok.

Anyone she doesn't know she just stands there growling and barking until

either they leave or I tell her to get in her kennel. Let them get too

close to " her kids " and it's another story.

one of these days I'll get my website updated with pictures of her and the

kids. I have a real cute one of Hope and Faith laying on a bean bag chair

with Mystic using her as a pillow.

Toni

Re: [ ] puppy

Lori-

Get " Good Owners, Great Dogs " by Kilcommons, and Toni's advice about

not allowing them to play together unless you are supervising is absolutely

correct!

Best wishes. Dogs are such a gift!

[Guest guest]

I feel compelled to jump in here - and I won't have a popular

opinion.

If your son isn't " getting it " with the dog and is being hard on her

and the dog winds up being crated much of the time (this also

imprints negatively on the dog), perhaps you shouldn't have a dog

yet. It can be a wonderful learning experience for a child, but when

it's difficult to impress upon this child that the being is alive and

NOT a toy, it's not the best situation for anyone - least of all the

pooch.

I'm a firm believer in house pets - 2 cats, a weimarranner and 4

rescued strays outside. They were all gotten " pre-kids " but we still

had to teach them how to behave with animals as they grew older.

It's a wonderful way to teach empathy - teaching that animals get

hungry, thirsty and get hurt and lonely is terrific because it takes

the child outside of him/herself. Unfortunately, many kids are too

young to learn this when the pet is introduced and it winds up being

a nightmare for everyone. Parents are constantly acting as police,

the dog gets locked up and the kid doesn't learn.

I have a couple of suggestions - one is to be sure that your son

feeds and waters the dog daily. Remind him that when he is hungry

for breakfast and dinner, so is the dog. A good horseman never eats

or rests before his horse is cared for - and that's the rule in our

house: the dog eats before we do. Every time he wants a hug from

you, tell him that you think the puppy wants a hug. Finally, when

your son is too rough with the dog, rather than crating up the dog,

send your son to a different part of the house. It isn't the dog's

fault that he's being mauled, and mistreating him and then putting

him in the crate too often over too long a period isn't going to

create a good relationship - it confuses the dog. Also, be sure that

you are modeling good behaviour with the dog - gentle play, rubs,

brushes, pats, smiles and lots of praise. Then praise your son when

he behaves similarly. If, after all this, he doesn't " get it " you

might reconsider the addition to your house.

Thanks for letting me throw in my unpopular 2 cents - there are just

too many dogs, cats, rabbits, etc. out there looking for good homes

as adults because someone adopted them, didn't train them (or the

kids) properly, wound up with a nasty animal who ends up in a

shelter...if they're lucky. I do hope I didn't offend - and I DO

hope it works out!!

Marina

> OK, so we got one. Not a real dog fan -- but out numbered.

is very

> hard on the dog. She is being crated, but, as my older son points

out -- why

> punish the dog, as is being hard on her. But how many

times can we

> scream, time out, go to room, call Santa, distract.

> I try to explain and he swears SORRY, but in 2 seconds its the

same. I

> explain she is a baby puppy, soft touch, no lifting by back legs.

> It seems he is really not getting it. He practically smothers

her.

> Any hints?

> Lori

> mother to 4.4 verbal apraxia and Tasha 7 weeks Olde English

Bulldog

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lori!

It's a tough call. Has anything changed since you posted last? Any

of the suggestions from here or elsewhere appear to be

working/helping yet?

We had a dog that was older when Dakota was born, so Max knew to

avoid Dakota if he didn't want to get sat on. If Dakota tried to

lay on him when he was trying to sleep Max would get up and walk

away. Dakota would hold onto Max's back when he was learning to

walk -but Max never tried to bite. Max even let Dakota sit on his

back at times -but when he had too much -he'd shake Dakota off and

walk away. So that's one option is to get an older dog who is used

to children from the pound (typically the best dogs anyway) Then

again, an older dog can bite if they are not good with children -so

you have to be careful if you don't know the new dog's temperament.

In NJ we had a huge pasture and a barn in our backyard, and one

morning when Glenn went out to take care of the horses -he found a

stray cat had kittens in the barn. This was when Dakota was three

years old and Tanner was a baby. When the kittens were old enough

we caught the mom cat in a trap -had her neutered and kept her as an

outdoor pet, and found homes for all the kittens except this one

cute little kitten we all fell in love with, " E Cat " (what Dakota

named the kitten since that is how he said " kitty cat " ) Dakota was

told to play really soft with the kitten and of course as one that

used to work at the Central Park and Bronx Zoo through the Friends

of the Zoo program at 13 giving tours to school children -I knew how

to teach Dakota to hold E Cat etc. Dakota always was a really

gentle kid, but I knew to keep an eye on him since kids don't

understand they can hurt or even kill, even just from the weight of

their body. As Jeannie posted the other day -her son loved his

gerbil and didn't understand that by squeezing him too hard when he

held him he would kill it -and he did.

I walked into a room one day and Dakota was picking up E Cat and

throwing him up in the air saying " wheee " ! That day as much as I

too loved E Cat -he was so sweet and cute -E Cat went over to my

neighbor Sharon's house where he was adopted that day by her UPS

delivery man. This was our decision based on the fact that I would

rather E Cat be safe because we did care for him...and I knew that a

child can't be punished for something he didn't yet understand.

Dakota to this day remembers E Cat and why we had to get him a new

home. Dakota has been incredibly careful and kind with all animals

since then. You should see him teaching Tanner how to hold the

gerbils they now have the " right " way.

Here is a page of discussions on this from Baby Center

" My toddler terrorizes our pets "

http://www.babycenter.com/dilemma/toddler/toddlerbehavior/1288284.html

And a page from Parent Center

The toddler who tortures the family dog

http://www.parentcenter.com/tips/34971.html

" Introducing Your Puppy To Children and

Others

As a rule, children and puppies are drawn to each other like

magnets. It's your job to make sure the experience is a positive

one for both these little ones. Introduce them at a distance and

then allow closer and closer encounters depending on how they

respond to each other. This may move along quite rapidly. Watch

body language and responses from both child and puppy. Do not allow

either to get stressed or out of control from excitement.

Establish clear rules for how the children are allowed to handle the

puppy. Show children who are old enough, the best way to pick up a

puppy (supporting all parts). Do not let a toddler try to carry a

puppy. Supervise some on-lap holding for that " close to me " feeling

little children want.

During puppyhood, it's important for your puppy to have numerous

exposures to different people in controlled situations. Invite

people over to play with the puppy on a regular basis. Enroll your

puppy in a Puppy Class at your local training club. Take your puppy

for short, fun trips (not just to the vet) in the car weekly.

Expose your puppy on a regular basis to new and different

surroundings. Take food treats with you and make it as much fun as

you can for the puppy. Be vigilant in avoiding negative encounters

with other dogs or people. The time you spend with this kind of

exposure in puppyhood will pay off in a dog that's well-adjusted and

adaptable for the rest of its life. "

http://www.bsca.info/BSCApuppymanual.html

And last but not least:

Guidelines for introducing dogs and children

" Young children should never be left alone with a dog. They have no

concept of pain or suffering in others and may treat an animal as if

it was a toy. "

http://www.pedigree.com/NR/exeres/CDFE018E-3F20-4952-80B0-28C100554605%2C813F0A2\

8-0246-4740-881A-A67DCAA8206C%2Cframeless.htm?Section=Relationship

=====

[Guest guest]

Marina, I totally must agree.

I bred Pekingese for years, but when my children were old enough to understand

that these, too, are BABIES. Rough treatment was not permitted. I stopped

breeding because I became pregnant, very unexpectedly, with my youngest. I knew

what would happen....and would never expect those poor pups to have to tolerate

a toddler.

We still have 5 adult dogs. Jordan is, at times, rougher than I'd like him to

be. But he knows where the line is. These dogs were all here long before he

was....but they, as well, know " the barking order " so to speak. They were

raised with children, so they know NO GROWLING, NO SNAPPING.....but again, they

are older. A puppy does not understand that. When Jordan was younger, and

would get a little " tough " with them, we separated them immediately, but never

restricted the dogs to a crate. I always felt it was unfair to punish THEM,

because in truth it was JORDAN who needed to be trained how to handle the dogs,

not the dogs needing to be trained how to handle a CHILD.

There are times when puppies and toddlers just don't mix. I hope for everyone's

sake that this is not the case in your home. I think strict rules need to be

enforced, more for your son. That puppy is a baby, too....and the behavior you

teach him NOW will be what he remembers for life. And life in a crate,

everytime a family member misbehaves, is really not fair to your pup. Or your

family.

Another possibility is to consider limiting your child's time around the puppy

to say, 5 minutes daily. Keep them separate, as difficult as that may be. And

as he begins more and more to understand that this is a BABY, and needs to be

treated delicately, you can increase their time together.

Marina.....most times the right opinion may not be the popular one, but the one

that is CORRECT. I think you're right on here, and I couldn't agree more.

~K

[ ] Re: puppy

I feel compelled to jump in here - and I won't have a popular

opinion.

If your son isn't " getting it " with the dog and is being hard on her

and the dog winds up being crated much of the time (this also

imprints negatively on the dog), perhaps you shouldn't have a dog

yet. It can be a wonderful learning experience for a child, but when

it's difficult to impress upon this child that the being is alive and

NOT a toy, it's not the best situation for anyone - least of all the

pooch.

I'm a firm believer in house pets - 2 cats, a weimarranner and 4

rescued strays outside. They were all gotten " pre-kids " but we still

had to teach them how to behave with animals as they grew older.

It's a wonderful way to teach empathy - teaching that animals get

hungry, thirsty and get hurt and lonely is terrific because it takes

the child outside of him/herself. Unfortunately, many kids are too

young to learn this when the pet is introduced and it winds up being

a nightmare for everyone. Parents are constantly acting as police,

the dog gets locked up and the kid doesn't learn.

I have a couple of suggestions - one is to be sure that your son

feeds and waters the dog daily. Remind him that when he is hungry

for breakfast and dinner, so is the dog. A good horseman never eats

or rests before his horse is cared for - and that's the rule in our

house: the dog eats before we do. Every time he wants a hug from

you, tell him that you think the puppy wants a hug. Finally, when

your son is too rough with the dog, rather than crating up the dog,

send your son to a different part of the house. It isn't the dog's

fault that he's being mauled, and mistreating him and then putting

him in the crate too often over too long a period isn't going to

create a good relationship - it confuses the dog. Also, be sure that

you are modeling good behaviour with the dog - gentle play, rubs,

brushes, pats, smiles and lots of praise. Then praise your son when

he behaves similarly. If, after all this, he doesn't " get it " you

might reconsider the addition to your house.

Thanks for letting me throw in my unpopular 2 cents - there are just

too many dogs, cats, rabbits, etc. out there looking for good homes

as adults because someone adopted them, didn't train them (or the

kids) properly, wound up with a nasty animal who ends up in a

shelter...if they're lucky. I do hope I didn't offend - and I DO

hope it works out!!

Marina

[Guest guest]

Hmmm, I too first wrote in my answer that I agreed with Marina, but

then deleted it. It's not that I disagree -but I can't say I agree

100% either, which is why I say it's a tough call. If in fact the

child is out of control mean and cruel to the puppy kicking and

hurting -and the parents are not able to control the child -then yes

I agree. But in my experience most of the children don't

intentionally try to hurt the puppy -they treat the puppy like a

toy, or hug it too hard -or try to ride it like a pony, etc.

We gave E Cat a new home because there was too much therapy going on

in the family -a new baby -we already had a dog and a horse and pony

and my parrot Woodstock and a bunch of fish and some chickens (and

the barn cat mom) so another kitten was just a bit too much to keep

an eye on. If one 'only' has one puppy in the house...I would

think one would have the time to watch the child and the puppy long

enough that they both grow to know and love and respect each other.

I myself know many who had babies and/or toddlers with a puppy and

all worked out better than fine. I appreciate that a puppy is also

a baby -but not like a human baby at all. Puppies are more

like toddlers than babies. And I've heard of stories where young

children try to hurt the new (human) baby -and certainly nobody is

going to advocate giving the new baby up for adoption:

" All kids feel jealous sometimes, but toddlers tend to act on those

feelings. Don't be surprised if your 2-year-old hits or throws

something at his new sibling; if he's mature enough, he might even

try to make it look like an accident. While your little one's

aggression toward your other beloved isn't easy to witness, it is

normal. Do take steps to prevent him from hurting the baby, though.

When you're alone with your toddler, encourage him to talk about his

feelings of jealousy and anger. Tell him that it's natural to feel

this way and that it doesn't mean he's bad. But make it clear that

trying to hurt the baby because of those feelings is not okay.

If he is aggressive, intervene right away. Don't humiliate or punish

him physically — you may prompt him to take revenge on the baby

later. Instead, tell him plainly that his behavior won't cut it.

Say, " It's not okay to hurt the baby. " You may want to give him a

time-out until he has a handle on his emotions. Never leave your

toddler alone with the baby — but don't let on that it's because you

don't trust him. Even if your older child is generally affectionate,

take all obvious precautions — keep sharp objects well out of reach

and never leave him in charge of the baby stroller, even for a

second (otherwise, you may find it careening downhill!). "

http://www.parentcenter.com/refcap/parenting/behavior/4221.html

I don't believe it's impossible or improbable to work out the situation.

I personally highly recommend animals in the home for even young

special needs children -it is proven to be an incredible situation

for all and for many reasons.

Besides people here (other than a handful of us) only share a tid

bit of information on posts which may or may not be the full picture. The

best we can do as a group is give advice -and know that loving

people will take it to make the right decisions. So on that note -

here is far more than anyone asked for on animal/pet therapy -

benefits to help make right decisions. If this comes up again -it's now in the

archives!

Animal therapy links

http://www.geocities.com/therapywithanimals/

" Our documentary, Kids & Animals – A Healing Partnership explores the

amazing benefits of animal-assisted therapy. We researched and

talked to many highly respected organizations involved with animal-

assisted therapy. What we discovered is amazing diversity in the

animals involved in this therapy. We also came to know a lot of kids

with a variety of challenges in their lives that benefited greatly

from their involvement with animals. Health improves, quality of

life improves and the feeling of independence increases. Lives that

are touched by the partnership between human beings and animals can

change in the most positive ways. "

http://www.furfinsfeathers.com/

Speaking of animal assisted therapy...Letter to Dr. Gozo (!) Tanner

and Dakota's former special needs pediatrician (that we love and

miss! That whole group is amazing!) before we moved to Florida

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~bizntech/mcguirk.pdf

" Hoelscher and Garfat (1993) point out that interaction with animals

can help children to bridge feelings of isolation, poor self-esteem

and depression. Touching and playing with a pet can help reduce

stress as well as give the child a source of unconditional

acceptance. "

http://www.teacherwebshelf.com/classroompets/research-articles.html

" Professionals working with children have also written about the

benefits of pet ownership. son's (1963) stages of psychosocial

development provide a useful framework for considering potential

benefits. Pets may contribute to the development of 1) a child's

basic sense of trust through the pet's constancy, security,

reliability, love and affection, and ability to serve as a

transitional object; 2) a sense of autonomy and initiative through

the pet's serving as an active playmate and promoting exploration of

the environment, and encouraging patience and self-control; 3) a

sense of industry through the pet's trainability and response to the

child's basic commands; and 4) a sense of identity through the pet's

serving as a companion and confidant, and providing social and

emotional support (Blue, 1986; Brown et al., 1996; , 1990;

Robin and ten Bensel, 1990). Others have focused on specific

qualities that may be enhanced in children growing up in pet-owning

households. Some researchers have found that children with pets

score higher on measures of empathy, self-esteem and self-concept

than those who do not. (Poresky and Hendrix, 1990; Van Houtte and

Jarvis, 1995). "

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p990243.html

" Dogs love almost everyone without prejudice and they eliminate the

language barrier. One nurse made this comment about a resident after

a visit with a Therapy Dog, " She is the calmest I have seen her

today. The dogs have tremendously reduced her high anxiety level. "

Dogs, because of their social natures, often genuinely like people

and choose to be around them in addition to their owners/handlers.

Often, they are aware of illness and sadness and WANT to provide

companionship and comfort; they are both intuitive and

compassionate. It is always a joy to see them detect sorrow and

watch them lick tears away. "

http://www.therapydogs.org/benefits4.html

" I knew my Angel Bunny was an exceptional rabbit, living up to her

name, but I was amazed at how tolerant she was toward these special

kids and how well she adapted to the environment. She not only

accepted attention and petting, but she was also comfortable enough

to investigate her surroundings. Whenever she needed a break, she

returned to her carrier. The highlight of the visit was when a small

boy with ADHD (attention deficit – hyperactivity disorder) sat down

on the floor to pet her. " that's a good bunny, " he softly said to

her. "

http://www.kindplanet.org/aat.html

" He went on to find that many children who were withdrawn and

uncommunicative would interact positively with the dog (Levinson,

1969). Animal-assisted therapy has a long, but undocumented history,

and it has only been in the last half of the twentieth century that

research and professional response has been conducted on the use of

animals in therapy. "

http://ericcass.uncg.edu/digest/2001-05.html

" Patients will tell the dog things they won't tell people. They

will hug her and rock her and tears will stream down their faces.

She touches people in ways that humans can't. "

In the last decade, a growing number of hospitals have been using

animals, especially dogs, to calm, reassure, motivate and help

rehabilitate patients. "

http://www.nursingexcellence.com/news/features/02-11/pettherapy.asp

" It takes time and effort to make canines and humans into useful

citizens who can live together. I don't have enough time to

completely train the rescue dogs, so I always suggest an obedience

class to the adoptive families and make myself available for

information and advice. "

http://www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/dogsboys.htm

" Boys learn about proper care, handling, nutrition and health care

for animals. They also learn to have compassion, gentleness and

respect for animals, other people and themselves. "

http://www.coloradoboysranch.org/cbr/animals.html

" Pet therapy is now being used to help with a whole range of medical

and emotional ailments. Animals help with stress relief,

physiotherapy, depression and short- term memory. They are

especially useful to children with behavioural disorders, or those

who have been physically or emotionally abused. Patients with heart

conditions are often given small pets to look after; this lowers

their blood pressure and improves their mood. "

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~lilbun/special.html#anchor38655

" The Effects of Animal Assisted Therapy (dogs) on Expression of Pro-

Social Behaviors in Children with Autism or other Pervasive

Disorders. People-Pet Partnership, Washington State University, Year

II "

http://www.petsforum.com/petcaretrust/PCTE3.htm#2002

" A special group of young people (and sometimes adults) who can

benefit greatly from Animal-Assisted Therapy through wildlife

rehabilitation are those we refer to as " at risk. " Often from

dysfunctional or even abusive families, many of these children are

abusive to animals. Individuals in abusive families often abuse

animals. Sometimes children raised in abusive families are abusive

to animals because it is what they see modeled; others vent their

anger on the animals. Over 70% of aggressive, incarcerated criminals

were reported as being abusive to animals as children (Advocate,

l987; Sussman, l985). These children have not had other choices

modeled for them. A chance to work with Animal-Assisted

Activities/Therapy and to observe the rehabilitator as a strong role

model gives children choices...

EMPATHY FROM CONTACT WITH ANIMALS

Studies report that children who live in homes where there is a pet

who is considered a member of the family are more empathetic than

children in homes where there is not such a pet (Levine, l986;

, l986; Malcarne, l986).

Because children see animals as peers, teaching them to be

empathetic with an animal is easier than with a human. With animals,

what you see is what you get. Humans play games. Feeling with

animals is easier than feeling with humans because of the animal's

simplistic behavior. Empathy will transfer from experi-ences with

animals to experiences with humans as the child becomes older.

Although studies have only been conducted with domestic animals,

wild animals may also offer opportunities for empathy development

and transfer. "

http://www.psyeta.org/hia/vol8/nebbe.html

" Social Benefits

Perhaps the most important benefit is that animals offer

unconditional love, speculated A. Krause, recreational

director, Green Acres Rehab and Nursing Facility, Wyndmoor, PA. " It

doesn't matter if a resident is in a wheelchair, is missing a limb,

is bedbound—they will be accepted. Animals do not judge, just

accept. "

http://www.advanceforpt.com/

" The dog does not know that part of your heart has died and that the

rest of your life is filled with similar imperfections. It knows

only that you and it are here, nose to nose, figuratively if not

literally, living in the present moment. The dog is happy to be

there with you, no questions asked. "

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian/issues99/jul99/phenom_jul99.html

=====

[Guest guest]

Perhaps you didn't read my entire post. I said that it was

**possible** that the family wasn't ready for a pet yet. I offered

many suggestions for ways to integrate a pet into a family - ways to

teach empathy, kind behaviour, etc.. Not all families have the time

it takes to work with a child. It has to be a conscious decision on

the parents' part whether or not they are going to " make it work " so

to speak. Everyone with toddlers and pets knows that eventually

their kids are going to manhandle the pet. At that time, you've got

to step in and change the behaviour. It's a learning opportunity.

Most animal trainers, however, would not recommend repeatedly crating

a dog to keep it away from a toddler - that is the part of the post

that concerned me. You are not teaching the dog or the child

anything by doing so - and the behaviour is sure to continue, if not

escalate. When a child mistreats a toy, you put it away in the box,

but a pet isn't a toy - and shouldn't be treated as one, though

removing the pet is the easier solution.

I in no way advocated for the family to give up trying. In fact, I

stated fairly clearly that pets are a fantastic way to teach empathy

and kindness. I believe you have misinterpreted or misstated my

position - and I feel VERY strongly FOR having pets in the household

BUT IT MUST BE A WIN-WIN FOR THE PET AND THE FAMILY. Pets have been

wonderful for our household - and many that I know agree. Please

take the time to reread the post.

Marina

[Guest guest]

na, K and of course and other responses,

Thank you for your responses. Day by day things get a little bit better.

I agree with the theory if it is to hard -- we may need to rethink. I don't

ever want to be part of animal abuse. I appreciate the support and frankness.

Each day we tackle 2 or so puppy rules, no picking up, no locking Mom outside

in the snow with the puppy, and its coming along, no second offenses.

The best revenge (I feel funny saying this), is Tasha took and pushed

's " bus " around and he flipped. We were dying inside, and explained, now

you

must clean up your toys or share them.

Just one more thing, part of the puppy stress, was the day we got her at

least 10 people stopped by. Reminds me of company coming to see the baby when I

just got home from the hospital. I can't blame them, as I should have said

no-but thought no big deal.

Once again thanks,

Lori J.

[Guest guest]

Hmmmm. Locking mom outside with the puppy?!? Sounds like MY house!

Glad the advice didn't offend - you certainly don't want to let an

animal be repeatedly mauled in your house, nor do you want to deal

with the consequences. My son took longer to absorb things as a

child - and I'm not sure I could have added another animal

successfully. I really hope it works out!

Marina

[Guest guest]

Glad to hear that things are settling down! Although being locked

out in the snow does sound like one I wouldn't want to ever happen

in the first place! LOL!

I just wanted to say that as a dog trainer (behaviorist for over 20

years - yikes!) I recommend the books Art of Raising a Puppy and The

Dog's Mind. I also highly recommend obedience training as a method

of daily reminding the pup that it is on the bottom of the pack.

Lastly I do not recommend feeding a dog before you eat. It sends a

cannine message that it is higher in the pack than you. Think in

wolf terms, who gets to eat first? The top dogs! Other things

are not allowing them to go before you through a door and they

should move out of your way. Bull dogs are a tenacious, loveable

lot in general. Gentle but firm reminders that your pup is not the

boss will help with the relationship with the children.

As for ideas with getting your child to be gentle. My Nick finds

that a hard concept, I think we take it for granted that they know

that lifting the dog's leg is not gentle but I really think they

don't understand gentle in a broad term. That means every

infraction needs to be pointed out. Such as, " Oh no Nick we don't

pull the dog's tail, we hug the dog. " If he continues he is

reminded that his treasured bike will have to go down in the

basement for awhile until he can remember not to pull on the dog.

Having the bike removed two times was all it took to have this be an

effective tool.

Hope it continues to be a win-win situation! Pets and kids are more

work when mixed but as often seen, hard work usually has wonderful

results!

> na, K and of course and other responses,

> Thank you for your responses. Day by day things get a little bit

better.

> I agree with the theory if it is to hard -- we may need to

rethink. I don't

> ever want to be part of animal abuse. I appreciate the support

and frankness.

> Each day we tackle 2 or so puppy rules, no picking up, no locking

Mom outside

> in the snow with the puppy, and its coming along, no second

offenses.

> The best revenge (I feel funny saying this), is Tasha took and

pushed

> 's " bus " around and he flipped. We were dying inside, and

explained, now you

> must clean up your toys or share them.

> Just one more thing, part of the puppy stress, was the day we got

her at

> least 10 people stopped by. Reminds me of company coming to see

the baby when I

> just got home from the hospital. I can't blame them, as I should

have said

> no-but thought no big deal.

> Once again thanks,

> Lori J.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lori!

Now you not only have a new puppy -you gave me an idea for your

Holiday cards this year!

Outside of card in large colorful letters (with spilled paint in the

same color/ few paw prints) " Rules for a Happy Holiday " and inside is

a picture of your child/ren and the puppy and right underneath them

the rules like share your toys etc. (and of course rule # 1 " No

locking Mom outside in the snow with the puppy " )

You wrote:

" The best revenge (I feel funny saying this), is Tasha took and

pushed

's " bus " around and he flipped. We were dying inside, and

explained, now you must clean up your toys or share them. "

See that can be added to the list of positives -learning to clean up

or share -how cool is that?!

Perhaps it would be helpful to look for suggestions from the

websites that deal with sibling rivalry?

" What do you do when your toddler or young child reacts badly to a

new baby? Some children seem to accept new siblings without

problems, but others - no matter how well you have prepared them,

and how much attention you give them - seem to become angry, even

violent. Some toddlers try to hit or bite the new baby. Parents,

exhausted by the demands of a newborn, can be at their wits' end

knowing how to deal with their older child.

It is perhaps not much comfort when you are going through this, but

a child who becomes angry or jealous is reacting as many firstborn

children do when a sibling arrives. He's ensuring that he has lots

of attention in the way that's easiest to him. He probably

doesn't enjoy hurting his baby brother or sister, but he gets his

parents' attention - if only in a negative way. And then gets even

more attention when he makes you angry. A child of two or three

isn't old enough to realise the irony of this.

The best book which covers this topic is 'Kids in Danger' by Ross

. It looks at reasons why children become angry, and ways

that they deal with it - some good, some not so good. Perhaps you

haven't really 'heard' your child's natural anger and jealousy at

having his world disrupted, so he's reacting in ways that cause

problems. He has gone from being (apparently) the centre of your

world to the periphery. Perhaps he thinks that he wasn't good

enough for you, so you have found another baby to replace him. Or

perhaps he simply doesn't like the changes that have come over the

household and needs time to adjust.

Rather than any kind of discipline, the first thing to do is to

ensure that your child really knows that you still love him, and

will never stop loving him, no matter what he does. This may seem

obvious to you, but not all children understand it. Make sure your

child has lots of cuddles and special time without the baby.

Telling him he's 'big' may only make it worse, if it seems to him

that it's much more fun being the baby. Try only to talk about him

being big when it's an obvious advantage. For instance, big

children can eat chocolate, and babies can't. Big boys can ride

bikes... Don't push the idea that 'big children don't fight' (or

cry, or throw tantrums) or any other issues which he might see as

negative.

When your child knows for sure that he's special to you, his violent

behaviour may simply stop. But if it's too much of a habit, try

sitting him down on your lap, and discussing with him what sort of

rules you should have in your family. He will probably suggest some

of his own - and it's a good idea to talk about the lots of rules

which a new baby needs as she's so young. Bring the conversation

gently around to things like 'no hitting' or 'sharing toys', helping

him to see that the rules apply to the baby too, and to any other

children in the home. Explain gently why it's important to observe

these family guidelines.

Then ask your child how he feels when he wants to hit the baby. He

might describe that his tummy hurts, or say he just wants her to

cry. Don't show any shock - these are quite normal reactions - but

help him name the emotions ('jealousy' or 'hurt' or whatever it is)

and help him to become aware of when he's feeling that way before he

reacts physically. Perhaps he could use a phrase with you that

nobody else understands - come up with something together like a

secret code - so that you can remove him from the situation when

he's feeling this way. Or tell him that it's fine to ask for an

extra cuddle if he's feeling jealous. He needs to be aware that

his feelings are acceptable, but that he should learn appropriate

ways of dealing with them. Once he knows that you don't mind what

he says about the baby, he may be able to open up more and tell you

when he's feeling angry.

In the meantime, go for walks in the park, get together with

relatives or friends who can spend extra time playing with your

child - or hold the baby while you play with your older child. And

keep telling your child how precious he is to you, and how glad you

are that you have him. "

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lake/3262/parenting/jealous_baby.htm

" And they will certainly let you know how they are feeling – often

through some quite unpleasant behavior.

Accepting a new sibling is especially difficult for children between

the ages of 1 and 3-1/2, because they are still very dependent upon

their parents. Some reactions are more acute than others and should

be monitored. If they become severe, consult your pediatrician. "

http://parenthood.com/articles.html?article_id=3950

=====

[Guest guest]

Hear is my puppy. The hubby got him for me hoping it would make me feel better.

I love him to death!!! His name is Mopar. He is a boxer puppy.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: Alison Lindsey <beauty4ali@...>

Daisy is a black lab/cocker spaniel mix. And, we also have a cockapoo named

Maxwell. They are both 6 months old! I love cats, but my dh doesn't, so we

won't be getting one :-( But, the dogs help a lot, too. It's nice because my

kids are both in school all day this year, and I hate being completely alone.

The dogs are like kids in so many ways, loving, playful, they keep me busy.

Ali

alison <crazydaizy@...> wrote:

>awww ! we heave a lot in common name wise it seems i have 3

cats. They save my life. they keep me goign and they are the onyl

oens that can quell my anxiety attacks . When they get on my lap pr

chest and purr they stop me from feelign my heart beat out of

controll. they help me regualte breathing. what kind of puppy? I have

a cat naked kiki that I call cuckoo.

> Alison, just wanted to say I have a puppy named Daisy, and

sometimes we

> call her Crazy Daisy, or lazy Daisy, depending on her mood at that

> moment, LOL

>

> Alison Lindsey

>

> Note: forwarded message attached.

>

>

> AVON

> Alison Lindsey

> Independent Sales Representative

> Beauty4Ali@a...

> (815) 277- 6341

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

MY CAT IS A KI KI TOO!

shrlyjo@... wrote: Hear is my puppy. The hubby got him for me hoping it

would make me feel better. I love him to death!!! His name is Mopar. He is a

boxer puppy.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: Alison Lindsey <beauty4ali@...>

Daisy is a black lab/cocker spaniel mix. And, we also have a cockapoo named

Maxwell. They are both 6 months old! I love cats, but my dh doesn't, so we

won't be getting one :-( But, the dogs help a lot, too. It's nice because my

kids are both in school all day this year, and I hate being completely alone.

The dogs are like kids in so many ways, loving, playful, they keep me busy.

Ali

alison <crazydaizy@...> wrote:

>awww ! we heave a lot in common name wise it seems i have 3

cats. They save my life. they keep me goign and they are the onyl

oens that can quell my anxiety attacks . When they get on my lap pr

chest and purr they stop me from feelign my heart beat out of

controll. they help me regualte breathing. what kind of puppy? I have

a cat naked kiki that I call cuckoo.

> Alison, just wanted to say I have a puppy named Daisy, and

sometimes we

> call her Crazy Daisy, or lazy Daisy, depending on her mood at that

> moment, LOL

>

> Alison Lindsey

>

> Note: forwarded message attached.

>

>

> AVON

> Alison Lindsey

> Independent Sales Representative

> Beauty4Ali@a...

> (815) 277- 6341

>

>

>