Re: Visit with my BPD adult daughter

[Guest guest]

> You're right, this is an opportunity for you. How wonderful that she,

> and you, plan to take advantage of it.

> My 35 year old daughter has cut off all contact with me for the last

> 6 months and recently agreed to meet with me only with her therapist

> present. I jumped at the chance. We live in different states and I

> will be visiting for one week, but was told the therapist and my

> daughter will meet with me for only 3 hours. My daughter wants to

> use the time to talk about what a safe environment is and the

> therapist does not believe this will result in resuming contact

> after I leave.  My daughter also said she has worked on this issue

> of what a safe environment is for the last 2 years in therapy.

> Here's a clue from her about where to focus in the therapy..encourage

> her to express what a safe environment for the future is looking like

> to her, and what you can do to help build one between you. Expect

> that she'll start blaming, hopefully the therapist will redirect her,

> but for you, I think your job is to do your best to stay non-defensive

> and future oriented, and to do lots of listening and reflecting.

> I am consumed with guilt and although I have asked for forgiveness

> for all the mistakes I made while I was a single parent raising her,

> she is filled with rage.

the rage is hers, to work out with her therapist. it doesn't belong in

the session with you. Don't feed it by defending, etc.

> I would appreciate any suggestions on how

> to work through the guilt, accept the circumstances and possibility

> my daughter may never want to re-establish contact, and how best to

> handle this one time opportunity.

> For " working through the guilt " , do it on your own time, with your

> friends as your sounding board. Don't even speak the word " guilt " in

> the sessions. Your daughter won't be able to help you with it, and it

> will get in the way of the fragile connection that's possible around

> " safe environments " .

> When I spoke to my daughter's therapist, she did not say that either

> my daughter or I are BPD, but I suspect my daughter believes I am

> and yet I see many of the symptoms, certainly not all, in her.  Of

> the 9 criteria in the DSM, I fit one.  My daughter suggested

> reading " Controlling People " , Toxic Parents, and Walking On

> Eggshells.  I have read all three.  The therapist said that she felt

> there were helpful things in all three books without necessarily

> being diagnosed as BPD.  I want to take full responsibility for my

> part and not take on more than belongs to me, but is hard not to

> believe that as a parent with a BPD adult child, that I am not the

> cause of the problems. 

> Yes, we all struggle with that one. But, for these meetings with your

> daughter, I believe it doesn't matter how things got to where they

> are, it matters what happens today between you two.

> My daughter said she has always lied and never trusted anyone until

> this last year.  She also said she would rather not have any

> relationship with me than continue to relate as we have in the past,

> giving no specifics about what that was or what she needs.  She also

> said she does not have one loving, caring  memory about me or coming

> from me from the time she was born until the present and she has

> always felt fearful with me.  That is so painful and hard to

> believe, but she may see it that way.  It is not as if she flops

> between a vision of me as all good or all bad.  It just seems I am

> all bad all of the time.  She certainly has never mentioned in the

> few letters she has written that her father may have any part in all

> of this.  Yet, in the past she has told my husband that he has been

> more of a father to her than her father has, but now she is lumping

> my husband in with me and saying that he has betrayed her.  In what

> way, neither of us have a clue.

>

> Any ideas or thoughts about this will be most helpful.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Send questions & concerns to WTOParentsOfBPs-owner .

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs can be ordered via

> 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the table of contents, see

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

sorry, I just read my on line response to you and saw how hard it is to

decipher my comments from your text. i'm just learning how to do this.

Best of luck to you. v

>

> My 35 year old daughter has cut off all contact with me for the last

> 6 months and recently agreed to meet with me only with her therapist

> present. I jumped at the chance. We live in different states and I

> will be visiting for one week, but was told the therapist and my

> daughter will meet with me for only 3 hours. My daughter wants to

> use the time to talk about what a safe environment is and the

> therapist does not believe this will result in resuming contact

> after I leave.  My daughter also said she has worked on this issue

> of what a safe environment is for the last 2 years in therapy.

>

> I am consumed with guilt and although I have asked for forgiveness

> for all the mistakes I made while I was a single parent raising her,

> she is filled with rage. I would appreciate any suggestions on how

> to work through the guilt, accept the circumstances and possibility

> my daughter may never want to re-establish contact, and how best to

> handle this one time opportunity.

>

> When I spoke to my daughter's therapist, she did not say that either

> my daughter or I are BPD, but I suspect my daughter believes I am

> and yet I see many of the symptoms, certainly not all, in her.  Of

> the 9 criteria in the DSM, I fit one.  My daughter suggested

> reading " Controlling People " , Toxic Parents, and Walking On

> Eggshells.  I have read all three.  The therapist said that she felt

> there were helpful things in all three books without necessarily

> being diagnosed as BPD.  I want to take full responsibility for my

> part and not take on more than belongs to me, but is hard not to

> believe that as a parent with a BPD adult child, that I am not the

> cause of the problems. 

>

> My daughter said she has always lied and never trusted anyone until

> this last year.  She also said she would rather not have any

> relationship with me than continue to relate as we have in the past,

> giving no specifics about what that was or what she needs.  She also

> said she does not have one loving, caring  memory about me or coming

> from me from the time she was born until the present and she has

> always felt fearful with me.  That is so painful and hard to

> believe, but she may see it that way.  It is not as if she flops

> between a vision of me as all good or all bad.  It just seems I am

> all bad all of the time.  She certainly has never mentioned in the

> few letters she has written that her father may have any part in all

> of this.  Yet, in the past she has told my husband that he has been

> more of a father to her than her father has, but now she is lumping

> my husband in with me and saying that he has betrayed her.  In what

> way, neither of us have a clue.

>

> Any ideas or thoughts about this will be most helpful.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Send questions & concerns to WTOParentsOfBPs-owner .

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs can be ordered via

> 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the table of contents, see

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My initial response was to tell you poke the therapist in the nose.

Sometimes a therapist who isn't really familiar with BPD will take

everything said as gospel. We had the same problem with our son's first

therapist. This man actually told me my son would be better off if I'd just

get out of his life. My husband demanded that the therapist see us to get

the " rest of the story. " Sure, changed his point of view - especially when

he learned of the fantasy world our son lives in sometimes. (He's worked for

the CIA and has been a hit man for the mafia --- all before he was 18.)

When you talk with the therapist, give your side. Tell exactly the behavior

that your daughter has exhibited. YOU ARE NOT THE CAUSE OF YOUR DAUGHTER'S

DISORDER. Do NOT allow the " blame " to be laid at your feet. Your daughter

MUST accept responsibility for her disorder and treatment. We mothers have

plenty of other things to feel guilty about --- if you must pick a minor one

like not letting go to the party everyone was going to. : )

Our son's therapist refused to work us or his wife - even after telling us

that it was a family disorder and everyone needed to be on the same page.

Since we were paying the bill --- we stopped paying.

It's hard not having contact with our kiddos. Our children with BPD will be

in and out of our lives --- you never get used to. But it is a reality of

the mental illness.

I'm fortunate that right now, my son has me split good and is in contact (he

lives in another state). As soon as I tell him I won't send him money, I'll

probably be bad again. I know it's not my fault. BPD is an illness and until

he takes responsibility and gets treatment this is the way his life will be.

If I were you, I'd ask the therapist if she knows anything about BPD and has

treated BPD. If not, she may not know what she's talking about.

Please, please stand your ground. You are not the blame for your daughter's

disorder any more than you are the blame for her hair color.

The other thing I've learned to do is prepared for the worst. Then I'm not

disappointed.

California

[Guest guest]

First, I want to thank each of you who responded to my posting. I

really appreciate the feedback and kind words; they made me cry, in

a good way. I am new to any message board, so if you find repeat

messages from me, I am just trying to figure out how to do this.

I have a question that perhaps someone can answer. I have read in a

few places that parents are not to blame for the behavior of their

BP child or adult child, as the cause could be from a number of

things or combination of things. Yet, I have read the following:

BPD is recognized as a complex DSM-IV Axis II mental illness. The

core issue of BPD is abandonment and BPD is recognized as both a

COGNITIVE

(ie, thinking) and an EMOTIONAL (ie, feeling) disorder.

My 35 year old daughter, who is an only child, raised by me, a

single parent, has some of the characteristics of BPD. She

exhibited none of the acting out as a child or teenager and in fact,

I had no idea about a diagnosis of BPD until she informed me she

wanted to cut off all contact for awhile until she was " stronger " .

I had no idea it would be over 6 months. I suspected that her

therapist of 2 years recommended that. My daughter said that her

therapist has expertise in working with " abuse issues " , but she was

not more specific.

Recently, when my daughter suggested I read " Stop Walking on

Eggshells " , I did, along with Paxton's book, " Borderline and

Beyond " . I still don't know if my daughter believes I am BPD or she

is or we both are. I hope to learn more when I meet with her and

her therapist at the end of the month. Nevertheless, back to a

question I have. If BPD's core issue is abandonment, then wouldn't

the parent of the BPD be responsible for the child's/adult child's

feeling of abandonment because of actual emotional abandonment when

the child was growing up? I really want to take responsibility for

my part in this, if in fact I have something to do with her current

rage/blame of me and yet, I don't want to take on more than I

should. Until I have this figured out, it is difficult for me to

let go of guilt, forgive myself, move on, and accept that I may

never have a relationship with my daughter for as long as I live.

My daughter just stopped sharing her real feelings about important

things with me years ago, admits to lying all the time, and is so

controlling that I am not even allowed to ask clarifying questions

without enraging her. I stopped all advise giving many years ago

and am not allowed to make any comments about her life or her

choices. All contact has been by mail in the last 8 months except

recently in planning this trip to visit her and her therapist. My

daughter has never attempted suicide, does not rage, has not cut

herself, is married, in graduate school, working part time, and can

only be described as independent, industrious, hard working, self-

sufficient, and described by her many friends as being kind, caring,

and loving. She has never used drugs, does not drink or smoke, does

not gamble or shop and, in fact, is what I call frugal. She did

become a Born Again Christian while in college and almost

exclusively restricted herself to listening to only Christian music,

listening to Christian radio, reading the bible or other Christian

literature, attending Christian conferences, and socializing with

only her Christian friends from the Church where she worked before

moving out of our State. She currently attends graduate school at a

Bible College. This might not be of any significance except that

both her father and I are Jewish, but she was not raised in a

practicing home. Her father and I divorced when she was 4 years

old, at which time she came to live with me.

I don't know if any of this makes sense and since I am not sure of

her diagnosis or mine (I did yell a lot when she was growing up and

I did abuse alcohol until 15 years ago when I quit drinking all

together, but I have always been stable as far as work, having just

retired after 35 years of employment at the same Government agency,

have never had suicidal thoughts, have a very wonderful and stable

marriage, and until recently, rarely get depressed). I want to do

what is best for her and also what is best for me, but this

confusion over what has caused my daughter's progressively more

bizarre behavior, rage, and rejection of me, has caused me to feel I

am totally to blame. I certainly do agree that it is time she

accepts responsibility for herself and stop blaming me and my

husband. She will have no peace until she does.

Any thoughts or answers to this would be most appreciated. I am

trying to prepare for the worst and have no expectations, but this

is so difficult.

> My initial response was to tell you poke the therapist in the nose.

>

>

>

> Sometimes a therapist who isn't really familiar with BPD will take

> everything said as gospel. We had the same problem with our son's

first

> therapist. This man actually told me my son would be better off if

I'd just

> get out of his life. My husband demanded that the therapist see us

to get

> the " rest of the story. " Sure, changed his point of view -

especially when

> he learned of the fantasy world our son lives in sometimes. (He's

worked for

> the CIA and has been a hit man for the mafia --- all before he was

18.)

>

>

>

> When you talk with the therapist, give your side. Tell exactly the

behavior

> that your daughter has exhibited. YOU ARE NOT THE CAUSE OF YOUR

DAUGHTER'S

> DISORDER. Do NOT allow the " blame " to be laid at your feet. Your

daughter

> MUST accept responsibility for her disorder and treatment. We

mothers have

> plenty of other things to feel guilty about --- if you must pick a

minor one

> like not letting go to the party everyone was going to. : )

>

>

>

> Our son's therapist refused to work us or his wife - even after

telling us

> that it was a family disorder and everyone needed to be on the

same page.

> Since we were paying the bill --- we stopped paying.

>

>

>

> It's hard not having contact with our kiddos. Our children with

BPD will be

> in and out of our lives --- you never get used to. But it is a

reality of

> the mental illness.

>

>

>

> I'm fortunate that right now, my son has me split good and is in

contact (he

> lives in another state). As soon as I tell him I won't send him

money, I'll

> probably be bad again. I know it's not my fault. BPD is an illness

and until

> he takes responsibility and gets treatment this is the way his

life will be.

>

>

>

> If I were you, I'd ask the therapist if she knows anything about

BPD and has

> treated BPD. If not, she may not know what she's talking about.

>

>

>

> Please, please stand your ground. You are not the blame for your

daughter's

> disorder any more than you are the blame for her hair color.

>

>

>

> The other thing I've learned to do is prepared for the worst. Then

I'm not

> disappointed.

>

>

>

>

>

> California

[Guest guest]

, thank you so much. You have no idea how comforting your

email is. I keep telling myself that if I had other children who

didn't behave and feel the way my daughter does then I would know

that her behavior is not all about what I did wrong, but because she

is an only child, I cannot take comfort in thinking it may be

biological. I will read everything you suggested and thank you so

much again.

I have so many questions. How do I contact you off list?

Sandi (Wilsanman)

California

> I'm so glad that you are researching information and asking

questions. That

> will be good for you and for working with your daughter.

>

>

>

> BPD can be triggered by abandonment or " perceived " abandonment.

Abuse and

> sexual molestation are also triggers.

>

>

>

> My husband and I are not divorced. My son is the youngest of three

children.

> We've never moved. He was home educated. Active in sports, theater,

> community service, church, good student, . on and on. No

abandonment, no

> abuse - although I've question my children about a possible sexual

> molestation when I found out that a pedophile was in our church.

So I don't

> rule that out. (An interesting aside - my daughter was sexually

molested at

> a babysitter's home when she was five years old. She doesn't have

any mental

> illness, is quite stable, and a successful and productive adult.)

>

>

>

> BPD, along with other mental illnesses, has a biological

foundation.

> Although environment can't be completely ruled, certain biological

and

> genetic indicators predisposes a person to the illness. Just as I

have a

> predisposition to cancer because of my family's history. Your

daughter's

> trigger may have been the divorce when she was four. It doesn't

make you the

> cause.

>

>

>

> Some good information about the biology -

>

>

>

> " The Biology of Borderline Personality Disorder " by Larry J.

Siever, M.D.

>

> www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/siever.htm

>

>

>

> " Borderline Biology " by Neil Bockian, Ph. D.

>

> www.borderlinepersonality.org

<http://www.borderlinepersonality.org/>

>

>

>

> A fascinating read is " Brave New Brain " by Nance C. sen,

M.D. Ph.D. It

> covers the recent scientific research in mental illness. Very easy

to read.

> I don't know of a corresponding web site. I checked it out of our

local

> library.

>

>

>

> I just thought of one more ---

>

> www.amenclinic.com <http://www.amenclinic.com/>

>

> Dr. Amen has studied scans of brain for over 15 years. He

documents

> the brain differences in mental illness, including BPD. He has an

article on

> his web " Why Psychiatrists Don't Use Brain Scans? "

>

>

>

> Hang in there. We're with you. Borderland is new territory and we

know that

> you need a guide.

>

>

>

> Please feel free to contact me off list, if you'd like.

>

>

>

>

>

> California