Guest guest Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Hi, While I agree with you on diagnosing BPD, I'm wondering how many did see signs at an earlier age when they reflect on earlier years. I look back and see several " indications " but we just didn't know what more to do. I was always so frustrated about not knowing how to " help " her or correct problems better. My DSD was considered a non-compliant " strong-willed " child from the day I met her (around age 2 1/2). She was prone to temper tantrums when she couldn't have her way. She had separation issues when we took her to school. She was non-compliant quite often in school and we constantly got notes home for either agressiveness or her becoming overly upset about a situation. She also from an early age would blame something/someone else for things - even when falling and bumping into a chair she would blame the chair for hurting her. She " tested " everyone (teachers, babysitters, etc.) She quite often told lies and once stole a gold graduation ring from her tutor (and had quite an elaborate cover story). It always seemed to me she couldn't be good at school and home at the same time...it was either/or. School was a constant struggle. She was gifted with artistic ability and creativity but never focused enough to develop them. She still has a very outgoing and engaging personality. She was diagnosed with ADD (non-hyper) at an early age, but the ritalin just never seemed to help. Her BM exacerbated the problem. Abandonment issues came up and she quite often tried to use DSD as a pawn. It was even apparent in custody cases that she manipulated and coached DSD in what to say to psych. counselors. I could go on, but was just wondering if others had similar experiences in the younger years. __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 Yes, actually I relate to that. My daughter was the same way, but no one knew about this at that time. I took her to therapists, but there was never much progress made, and the older she got, the more determined she was to manipulate her way out of it. Now she's over 18, and I cannot force her to go, and she will not admit to a problem. Most of her life she has been the " victim. " Not much I can do now I guess, except change the way WE react to her, and hope that she will eventually get counseling. N > >Reply-To: WTOParentsOfBPs >To: WTOParentsOfBPs >Subject: Re: BPD & Children >Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:49:22 -0700 (PDT) > >Hi, > >While I agree with you on diagnosing BPD, I'm wondering how many did see >signs at an earlier age when they reflect on earlier years. I look back >and see several " indications " but we just didn't know what more to do. I >was always so frustrated about not knowing how to " help " her or correct >problems better. > > My DSD was considered a non-compliant " strong-willed " child from the day >I met her (around age 2 1/2). She was prone to temper tantrums when she >couldn't have her way. She had separation issues when we took her to >school. She was non-compliant quite often in school and we constantly got >notes home for either agressiveness or her becoming overly upset about a >situation. > >She also from an early age would blame something/someone else for things - >even when falling and bumping into a chair she would blame the chair for >hurting her. She " tested " everyone (teachers, babysitters, etc.) She >quite often told lies and once stole a gold graduation ring from her tutor >(and had quite an elaborate cover story). > >It always seemed to me she couldn't be good at school and home at the same >time...it was either/or. School was a constant struggle. > >She was gifted with artistic ability and creativity but never focused >enough to develop them. She still has a very outgoing and engaging >personality. She was diagnosed with ADD (non-hyper) at an early age, but >the ritalin just never seemed to help. > >Her BM exacerbated the problem. Abandonment issues came up and she quite >often tried to use DSD as a pawn. It was even apparent in custody cases >that she manipulated and coached DSD in what to say to psych. counselors. > >I could go on, but was just wondering if others had similar experiences in >the younger years. > > > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 I've noticed that a great many of you are recalling your daughters being the " victim " when they were growing up and always blaming someone else for their problems. This seems to be quite prevalent in them as children and teens, however I've also gone back and read again all the definitions and/or characteristics of BPD and I can't seem to find any professional reference to the " victim " mentality and the blame game in the literature. Am I missing something here or is that an accurate assessment of the professional point of view. My daughter's victim feelings probably started at around 4 when she went to nursery school and would come back and say no one played with her. This continued through present day. She had one " close " friend who was a neighbor and 3 years older than , but her mother and I were friends and the girls did everything together summers and after school, but there was always the whining of what " did " to her or toys taken from her, etc. Looking back, I realize I always blamed , who was older, and took my daughter's side, of course, even though my younger son, would tell me it was not 's fault. But, my daughter was so completely believable, with the tears and the apparent lies. I wish I could go back. I wonder if we were on top of this behavior in the beginning if it would have made her and my life better today. When my grandsons come to me now with a tale of possible ill treatment by another child, I discuss it with them, and tell them to try to work it out themselves and that seems to be the end of it. I see no victim behavior in them as yet. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 I can relate way back as well. My now 25 year old son was 7 years old when he first was diagnosed with ADD and was always in trouble in school. Actually he got thrown out of Catholic kindergarden first, (i forgort that ). He would chew on pencils, throw books, punch, anything to disturb the class, run away from school. (AT the time I was away in another state trying to learn a new job and my ex was in construction during the day, and needless to say we had no cell phones then), so they couldn't reach the ex and would call me a state away when my 7 and 8 year old son would run. His troubles just grew and continued with age. His father , my ex, divorced me when my son was 11, and I tried to move back with the father and of course it did not work and left again when my son was 13. At 17, I met my current husband who was sober at the time, now he is not and of course blames his drinking again on the fact that out of the almost 8 years married , I have had to have full attention on my ADD, dyslexic, cross-addicted, bi-polar , and now BPD son, plus my mother got sick with cancer and the onset of Alzteimer's and I have POA as I am the only child. Anyway, just last week my son was released early from a dual diagnosed rehab- because he raged at a nurse. ( Hello, is not rage part of the disease) And then when he got home 14 days early, to find out he maxed out his Access Card, and this Med-Plus will not pay for his medication. So , I know it is a matter of time before he drinks again or tries his sucide attempts. Before rehab, between May and 1 month ago he tried 5 times, that is why they maxed out his medical card. So now, he has no insurance either. Mind you he has been disabled since he was 17, diagnosed with BPD. but , now no medical insurance. So, I live One Day At A Time with this disease. He is currently living with his girlfriend's sister until their apartment is ready in Sept. I know he should not even be in this relationship, but, it is better than the streets as he has exhausted all places where he can stay. I live 1 hour away. Sometimes that is good, but sometimes it is not. ( Especially when it concerns my mother ) it is too far, And it looks like when my checks finally go through( I had to file for Social Security Disability) I was diagnosed with Adjustment Disorder with Depressed mood LOLOL), I will be looking at a second divorce. WEll, the good news I turn 50 on Monday, and everyday, I learn more and more to appreciate whatever little happiness i find in life, whether friends on the computer, a growing flower, taking a walk, when my son is my son and this horrible disease is not on the surface, (even 10 minutes) I live for the moment. Did i mention he was and is the only adult child I had from my first marriage. I never dreamed this would be the life he would have. I look at the friends who children have graduated high school, got a drivers license, had normal dates, got married, had children, went to college, in there. What it was suppose to be. This is a very heartbreaking disease. You can divorce a spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend but, what do you do with your children an only child at that. I pray for all you parents out there and your children as I pray for me and mine Grabarczyk wrote: >Yes, actually I relate to that. My daughter was the same way, but no one >knew about this at that time. I took her to therapists, but there was never >much progress made, and the older she got, the more determined she was to >manipulate her way out of it. Now she's over 18, and I cannot force her to >go, and she will not admit to a problem. Most of her life she has been the > " victim. " Not much I can do now I guess, except change the way WE react to >her, and hope that she will eventually get counseling. >N > > > > >> >>Reply-To: WTOParentsOfBPs >>To: WTOParentsOfBPs >>Subject: Re: BPD & Children >>Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:49:22 -0700 (PDT) >> >>Hi, >> >>While I agree with you on diagnosing BPD, I'm wondering how many did see >>signs at an earlier age when they reflect on earlier years. I look back >>and see several " indications " but we just didn't know what more to do. I >>was always so frustrated about not knowing how to " help " her or correct >>problems better. >> >> My DSD was considered a non-compliant " strong-willed " child from the day >>I met her (around age 2 1/2). She was prone to temper tantrums when she >>couldn't have her way. She had separation issues when we took her to >>school. She was non-compliant quite often in school and we constantly got >>notes home for either agressiveness or her becoming overly upset about a >>situation. >> >>She also from an early age would blame something/someone else for things - >>even when falling and bumping into a chair she would blame the chair for >>hurting her. She " tested " everyone (teachers, babysitters, etc.) She >>quite often told lies and once stole a gold graduation ring from her tutor >>(and had quite an elaborate cover story). >> >>It always seemed to me she couldn't be good at school and home at the same >>time...it was either/or. School was a constant struggle. >> >>She was gifted with artistic ability and creativity but never focused >>enough to develop them. She still has a very outgoing and engaging >>personality. She was diagnosed with ADD (non-hyper) at an early age, but >>the ritalin just never seemed to help. >> >>Her BM exacerbated the problem. Abandonment issues came up and she quite >>often tried to use DSD as a pawn. It was even apparent in custody cases >>that she manipulated and coached DSD in what to say to psych. counselors. >> >>I could go on, but was just wondering if others had similar experiences in >>the younger years. >> >> >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! >http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > >Send questions & concerns to WTOParentsOfBPs-owner . " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Hi Chris Is it possible your ex-wife had BPD also? Was she a good mother after the initial 3 years following your son's birth? Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 , I have a 26yo BP son - an only child - and I have done it on my own since he was 16 - my ex took off and abandoned both of us - she had actually abandoned us mentally and emotionally some time before that - and my son took it very badly and this is when he was first presented with rage outbursts and anti-social behaviour. Had to take him out of school , ect, etc. He was first diagnosed with depression when he was 19, bi-polar when he was 23 , and BP last year - a very long road. It seems that his original abandonment issues go back to his birth as my ex had post-natal depression for 3 years after he was born and never really " bonded " with him after that. I also never pictured that this would be my life and am also sad that my son may not have a " normal " life - I have all my fingers crossed all the time. I have had 5 relationships since my divorce 10 years ago - and they have all gone the same way - the last 2 of these only lasted a few months each and this is sad - I should have recognised the patterns before so I have decided to take a break from relationships and look after myself - I don't have any energy to maintain a relationship and be a care-giver for my son at the same time, and also look after myself and stay sane. I started the " 8 Step Program " at the local mental health institute last week- a ten week course based on a book " Hiden Victims, Hidden Healers " by Tallard and published by PEMA Publications in 1988 - ISBN 0-9640430-0-9. It is highly recommended here in Australia to help care-givers of psychiatric patients who have conditions such as BP and schizophrenia. There are 9 of us in the group - most of the people have schizophrenics in their lives - one has a bipolar - but there is one young guy whose partner is BP - and they have 2 young children. I am very glad to be able to relate to someone else face-to-face. I have also enrolled in a uni course in Creative Writing by distance education to keep my mind active and to do something creative. And I have got back into my local community through a local environmental group and neighbourhood association. I suppose what I am trying to say is - it IS ONE DAY AT A TIME, but you have to look after yourself and do work on yourself. I also have a counsellor who I see once per month. I have had some good news lately with my son - in the last 4 months he has been stable - no rages - attentive to my needs and others (who he likes) - and a joy to be around most of the time - he is trying very hard - except that my " guard " is still up because I don't trust his stability at this stage - still walking on eggshells. This has been the result of intensive CBT therapy on a weekly basis for about 15 months with a very good psychologist, a better and more consistent medication regime (he only takes an SSRI and Xanax - no more anti-psychotics or mood stabilisers), better control and lower intake of his marijuana smoking (I know this is weird but it does control his rage moods), and no alcohol or other nasties at all. He recently tried to get into the local DBT program at the public hospital, but had a fight with the convenor. The convenor wouldn't allow him to continue taking Xanax while he was on the program - no one can understand this? I am not sure if he would have gone that well as all of the other intakees were girls and he has an issue with females. I think that he does better with one-to-one therapy and wouldn't warm up to group therapy that well - I may be wrong - he may be able to do this at some future time. He is much more cognitive of his moods and triggers and he has learnt to take evasive action - most of the time anyway. I have recently used the " horse whisperer " technique that I learnt in these posts - and I must say it has some potential to be useful. I am not able to introduce " tough love' techniques really much at all. I need to work on this. Hang in there ..... Chris. Re: BPD & Children >>Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:49:22 -0700 (PDT) >> >>Hi, >> >>While I agree with you on diagnosing BPD, I'm wondering how many did see >>signs at an earlier age when they reflect on earlier years. I look back >>and see several " indications " but we just didn't know what more to do. I >>was always so frustrated about not knowing how to " help " her or correct >>problems better. >> >> My DSD was considered a non-compliant " strong-willed " child from the day >>I met her (around age 2 1/2). She was prone to temper tantrums when she >>couldn't have her way. She had separation issues when we took her to >>school. She was non-compliant quite often in school and we constantly got >>notes home for either agressiveness or her becoming overly upset about a >>situation. >> >>She also from an early age would blame something/someone else for things - >>even when falling and bumping into a chair she would blame the chair for >>hurting her. She " tested " everyone (teachers, babysitters, etc.) She >>quite often told lies and once stole a gold graduation ring from her tutor >>(and had quite an elaborate cover story). >> >>It always seemed to me she couldn't be good at school and home at the same >>time...it was either/or. School was a constant struggle. >> >>She was gifted with artistic ability and creativity but never focused >>enough to develop them. She still has a very outgoing and engaging >>personality. She was diagnosed with ADD (non-hyper) at an early age, but >>the ritalin just never seemed to help. >> >>Her BM exacerbated the problem. Abandonment issues came up and she quite >>often tried to use DSD as a pawn. It was even apparent in custody cases >>that she manipulated and coached DSD in what to say to psych. counselors. >> >>I could go on, but was just wondering if others had similar experiences in >>the younger years. >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 No - I don't think she was/is BP - however, she did have bouts of depression after the intial 3 years and had a lot of counselling - I did, however, suspect that she was sexually abused as a young child - she was very uptight about sex in general and our physical relationship was very strained. She really didn't warm up to motherhood very well at all - I would come home from work and she would hand me my son and go into her room for the rest of the night to read or to do some sort of art. She would read fantasy stuff or new age stuff - off in a world of her own. Chris. Re: BPD & Children Hi Chris Is it possible your ex-wife had BPD also? Was she a good mother after the initial 3 years following your son's birth? Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Happy Birthday, and hopefully many more (stress free) to come! I'm right behind you. You are in good company here. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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