Re: Re: BPD and sexual abuse

[Guest guest]

I have no doubt that some BP sufferers have been abused, but this doesn't

explain the others that were not and other non-BP people who have been abused

but don't end up with BP.

My 26yo BP son was not abused sexually, but I can say that he was " emotionally

abandoned " by his mother at a very early age - from birth really. To this day he

has a hatred for her (his stance may be the result of " splitting " ) and has had

virtually nothing to do with her for 12 years. I recently discovered that he

himself used to abuse his pet dogs after she carried out one of her rejections -

something he is very remorseful for now.

I am curious as to why the stats show an overwhelming percentage of BP's are

girls?

Chris.

Re: BPD and sexual abuse

Rivka, Do you think this is how BPD got the reputation for being a

result of sexual abuse? I ask because our daughter, 21, completed

DBT and doing very well at this stage, has always denied any kind of

abuse.

For instance...

When our daughter was first diagnosed her psych told us that most

sufferers had been sexually abused but our daughter had denied any

abuse. Later when I talked about BPD with a coworker she informed

me that ALL sufferers had been sexually abused (we were

consultanting for a behavioural change program and she was a nurse

in local gaol). As you can imagine, I was beside myself thinking

about all the times my daughter had been babysat, all of the times

there may have been a window of opportunity for abuse to occur. I

ended up a counselling session ready to condemn myself for being an

unfit mother but eventually - with help of counsellor - rational

thinking stepped in and I decided to believe my daughter and to stop

creating what ifs.

Some time later, after a major incident involving all three

daughters - initiated by daughter with BP - police and the local

hospital, a nurse basically tried to coerce our daughter into

admitting that she had been sexually abused after I explained that

she had BP. As you can imagine this did little to settle our

daughter's anger and a great deal to elevate my frustration at the

lack of knowledge about BP within our health industry.

I complained, of course, to the local mental health unit and was

invited to give some input, from a carer's point of view, into the

setting up of a pilot program to introduce DBT principles into our

local mental health unit for in patients and out patients.

I am pleased also to say that since our incident, and I don't think

it's a direct result from our incident, that many of the staff in

our local mental health unit have undergone some training to

understand BP so that they can be better equipped when people

present to the hospital emergency with BP issues. I believe this is

because of the increase in recognition of BP being a " real " illness.

My daughter has just read this post and wanted me to tell you what

she really said to the nurse but sorry can't repeat. She's happy for

me to share our experiences and I always make sure that she's aware

of what's going on.

Interested to hear you thoughts,

Deb

> i think it is so sad-they ALL feel so terrible about themselves-no

> matter how much they seem to deny any problems...they REALLY feel

so

> terrible about themselves. one of the many ways they try to avoid

> these awful feelings is to grasp upon any excuse for their

sickness-

> and being sexually abused is terrible enough-and with the (mostly

> good natured, but ill-informed) therapists that " suggest " this to

> them...(and how miserable of course when it is true-they are so

naive

> and vulnerable-but how to know what really happens?)- rivka

Send questions & concerns to WTOParentsOfBPs-owner . " Stop

Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL

(). For the table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

[Guest guest]

Chris--

Some BPs could have a genetic anomoly that's X-linked, which would mean that

more girls could develop BP than boys. I'm no geneticist, but this is how I

think of BP in terms of your question:

Imagine that BPD can be recessive like blue eyes are recessive. Then imagine a

world where blue eyes are X-linked. (Not true, but imagine it anyway.) Think

of a family in which the female grandparents on each side have blue eyes, while

the other two grandparents both have brown eyes.

Grandparents: BLUE-BROWN (XX) BROWN-BROWN (XY)

BLUE-BROWN (XX) BROWN-BROWN (XY)

Parents with brown eyes: BLUE-BROWN (XX)

BLUE-BROWN (XY)

Child with blue eyes: BLUE-BLUE

(XX)

Even if both parents are born with brown eyes because the BROWN gene is

dominant, they each may carry a blue-eyed gene on their X chromosome.

(Dominance means the BROWN genes act as if the parents are wearing a mask, so

you can't see what's underneath.) The parents could pass on their brown eyed

genes, but their genes could also combine in such a way as to produce a child

with blue eyes. If blue eyes were X-linked, then a girl (XX) would have a

greater chance of having blue eyes than a boy (XY) would.

But what if there's more than one way to develop similar lesions in the frontal

lobe? My thinking is that if chemical changes from meds can cause the brain to

get used to performing in a certain way (as SSRIs can cause a mania in bipolars

that doesn't want to stop), the same might be said for chemical changes that

occur because of life experience and/or genetics. Maybe the genetic switch is

flipped to the ON position for different reasons? Say, if coming to a certain

age is the switch for a purely genetic BP, which floods the frontal lobe with

chemicals. But say with someone who has some, but not all, of the genetic

markers, maybe their vulnerability to environment / experience could cause

similar chemical changes in the same pathway?

My daughter was sexually abused by an 8 year old child (in front of his mother,

who failed to stop him) when she was nearly 4. She was also emotionally

abandoned by her father. So the environmental thing would work for her.

However, she may have more of a genetic vulnerability with the bipolar disorder,

alcoholism, and NPD on both sides of the family.

Meredith

Re: Re: BPD and sexual abuse

I have no doubt that some BP sufferers have been abused, but this doesn't

explain the others that were not and other non-BP people who have been abused

but don't end up with BP.

My 26yo BP son was not abused sexually, but I can say that he was " emotionally

abandoned " by his mother at a very early age - from birth really. To this day he

has a hatred for her (his stance may be the result of " splitting " ) and has had

virtually nothing to do with her for 12 years. I recently discovered that he

himself used to abuse his pet dogs after she carried out one of her rejections -

something he is very remorseful for now.

I am curious as to why the stats show an overwhelming percentage of BP's are

girls?

Chris.

[Guest guest]

I always wonder the same thing, since there was no sexual abuse for my

daughter either. She had always been a difficult child since birth, not

wanting to be apart from me ever as a young child and school phobia starting

in 3rd grade. When she was 12, my mother died and we were all there with

her when she died, including my daughter. In retrospect, I wish I would

have been in my right mind and I probably wouldn't have let her be there,

however, hindsight is always 20/20. This is the only thing I can think of

that would have been the traumatic event in her life, and since she was

already ultra sensitive and going through some other things in her life

(peer rejection because of her school phobia and " different " behavior). She

was very attached to her grandma and when she died, she could have felt

abandoned? Any feedback?

Jan

Re: BPD and sexual abuse

>

>

> Rivka, Do you think this is how BPD got the reputation for being a

> result of sexual abuse? I ask because our daughter, 21, completed

> DBT and doing very well at this stage, has always denied any kind of

> abuse.

>

> For instance...

>

> When our daughter was first diagnosed her psych told us that most

> sufferers had been sexually abused but our daughter had denied any

> abuse. Later when I talked about BPD with a coworker she informed

> me that ALL sufferers had been sexually abused (we were

> consultanting for a behavioural change program and she was a nurse

> in local gaol). As you can imagine, I was beside myself thinking

> about all the times my daughter had been babysat, all of the times

> there may have been a window of opportunity for abuse to occur. I

> ended up a counselling session ready to condemn myself for being an

> unfit mother but eventually - with help of counsellor - rational

> thinking stepped in and I decided to believe my daughter and to stop

> creating what ifs.

>

> Some time later, after a major incident involving all three

> daughters - initiated by daughter with BP - police and the local

> hospital, a nurse basically tried to coerce our daughter into

> admitting that she had been sexually abused after I explained that

> she had BP. As you can imagine this did little to settle our

> daughter's anger and a great deal to elevate my frustration at the

> lack of knowledge about BP within our health industry.

>

> I complained, of course, to the local mental health unit and was

> invited to give some input, from a carer's point of view, into the

> setting up of a pilot program to introduce DBT principles into our

> local mental health unit for in patients and out patients.

>

> I am pleased also to say that since our incident, and I don't think

> it's a direct result from our incident, that many of the staff in

> our local mental health unit have undergone some training to

> understand BP so that they can be better equipped when people

> present to the hospital emergency with BP issues. I believe this is

> because of the increase in recognition of BP being a " real " illness.

>

> My daughter has just read this post and wanted me to tell you what

> she really said to the nurse but sorry can't repeat. She's happy for

> me to share our experiences and I always make sure that she's aware

> of what's going on.

>

> Interested to hear you thoughts,

>

> Deb

>

>

>

> > i think it is so sad-they ALL feel so terrible about themselves-no

> > matter how much they seem to deny any problems...they REALLY feel

> so

> > terrible about themselves. one of the many ways they try to avoid

> > these awful feelings is to grasp upon any excuse for their

> sickness-

> > and being sexually abused is terrible enough-and with the (mostly

> > good natured, but ill-informed) therapists that " suggest " this to

> > them...(and how miserable of course when it is true-they are so

> naive

> > and vulnerable-but how to know what really happens?)- rivka

>

>

>

> Send questions & concerns to WTOParentsOfBPs-owner .

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL (). For the table of contents, see

http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jan,

You are probably right in thinking that trauma of your mother and being

your daughter was 12 when she passed, is the trigger for her. Not so much

abandonment as much as the tremendous feeling of loss for her. She may suffer

also from a form of depression which wouldnt help. The pre-teen, and teen years

would be the time that a trigger would definitely stop the

emotional/psychological development in our daughters.

I know exactly when it happened to mine. But you cant control the actions of

others, and like you said, who knew? hindsight. We can only make the best of

what we have to deal with. My daughter was bombarded with traumas one after

another in a very short period of time, starting at age 13, so I have a lot to

deal with. She's 17 now, doing a bit better. Good luck to you and all.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Jan,

It is something how so many of these kids are so similar. My daughter was just

the same with her attachment to me and school phobia starting in 2nd grade. I

sure wish there was a " cure " !!

Re: BPD and sexual abuse

>

>

> Rivka, Do you think this is how BPD got the reputation for being a

> result of sexual abuse? I ask because our daughter, 21, completed

> DBT and doing very well at this stage, has always denied any kind of

> abuse.

>

> For instance...

>

> When our daughter was first diagnosed her psych told us that most

> sufferers had been sexually abused but our daughter had denied any

> abuse. Later when I talked about BPD with a coworker she informed

> me that ALL sufferers had been sexually abused (we were

> consultanting for a behavioural change program and she was a nurse

> in local gaol). As you can imagine, I was beside myself thinking

> about all the times my daughter had been babysat, all of the times

> there may have been a window of opportunity for abuse to occur. I

> ended up a counselling session ready to condemn myself for being an

> unfit mother but eventually - with help of counsellor - rational

> thinking stepped in and I decided to believe my daughter and to stop

> creating what ifs.

>

> Some time later, after a major incident involving all three

> daughters - initiated by daughter with BP - police and the local

> hospital, a nurse basically tried to coerce our daughter into

> admitting that she had been sexually abused after I explained that

> she had BP. As you can imagine this did little to settle our

> daughter's anger and a great deal to elevate my frustration at the

> lack of knowledge about BP within our health industry.

>

> I complained, of course, to the local mental health unit and was

> invited to give some input, from a carer's point of view, into the

> setting up of a pilot program to introduce DBT principles into our

> local mental health unit for in patients and out patients.

>

> I am pleased also to say that since our incident, and I don't think

> it's a direct result from our incident, that many of the staff in

> our local mental health unit have undergone some training to

> understand BP so that they can be better equipped when people

> present to the hospital emergency with BP issues. I believe this is

> because of the increase in recognition of BP being a " real " illness.

>

> My daughter has just read this post and wanted me to tell you what

> she really said to the nurse but sorry can't repeat. She's happy for

> me to share our experiences and I always make sure that she's aware

> of what's going on.

>

> Interested to hear you thoughts,

>

> Deb

>

>

>

> > i think it is so sad-they ALL feel so terrible about themselves-no

> > matter how much they seem to deny any problems...they REALLY feel

> so

> > terrible about themselves. one of the many ways they try to avoid

> > these awful feelings is to grasp upon any excuse for their

> sickness-

> > and being sexually abused is terrible enough-and with the (mostly

> > good natured, but ill-informed) therapists that " suggest " this to

> > them...(and how miserable of course when it is true-they are so

> naive

> > and vulnerable-but how to know what really happens?)- rivka

>

>

>

> Send questions & concerns to WTOParentsOfBPs-owner .

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL (). For the table of contents, see

http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>