Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Yesterday my 18 year old BP grandson called and asked me if I would buy him some clothes for his 4th job in 7 months. Of course, I didn't refuse. He was so nice to me. I took him to the store and he didn't curse and he wasn't obnoxious. He had previously asked me if he could live with us while the friend he is living with went with his parents to Puerto Rico. Of course, we said he could stay for the week. I guess I should have known what was coming next. Tonight he called and asked if he could move back in for the 4th time since October. He said he would go to counseling - I didn't answer him. I know I should say " no " but I can't bring myself to do that. My husband said he could come back if he went for counseling. I don't know what to do. In order for him to get the help he needs, he needs a stable envirnonment. He can't do it alone. Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Hi Ann, This is a tough one. I am a Grandmother too, even though my little one is only 3 yo. Sometimes I look at him and say I wonder what his life will be like, and could I be tough. Grandchildren are special to us, arn't they. You have to do what your heart tells you to do. Just keep a few things in mind. 's past history from what I have read, does not show a good track record for sticking with what he says. I like to believe in my heart that he wants to change. You and I both know change is not easy. It requires consistancy and self discipline. Have you and your hubby sought counsel for yourselves on this matter? You mentioned this would be 's 4 move back with you since October. Have you looked at other options for ? Explaining to your goal is to see him happy and successful. It may mean to look at other options while he is going to therapy. Then you have a chance to see if he is able to be consistant. Has had a good medical checkup with a doctor latley? Ann, I know you and your husband love very much. But, we ( I mean me, too) can't take the world on our shoulders. We have to give responsability back to the owner, and assist with an open hand. That's not easy, cause we have hearts. Whatever you decide to do will not be easy. I wish you and your hubby the very best. I hope will decide for himself a better way of living. Peace and Love. Katy From: Ann2079@... Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 8:18 PM To: wtoparentsofbps Subject: Re: 's Grandma Yesterday my 18 year old BP grandson called and asked me if I would buy him some clothes for his 4th job in 7 months. Of course, I didn't refuse. He was so nice to me. I took him to the store and he didn't curse and he wasn't obnoxious. He had previously asked me if he could live with us while the friend he is living with went with his parents to Puerto Rico. Of course, we said he could stay for the week. I guess I should have known what was coming next. Tonight he called and asked if he could move back in for the 4th time since October. He said he would go to counseling - I didn't answer him. I know I should say " no " but I can't bring myself to do that. My husband said he could come back if he went for counseling. I don't know what to do. In order for him to get the help he needs, he needs a stable envirnonment. He can't do it alone. Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Ann, you may already know all of this but just in case, I'll tell you a little bit about our story. My 19 yo daughter and myself are estranged. I chose this estrangement and I don't need to go into all the reasons in this post (I'm sure you can imagine). About this time last year, my daughter had been living w/her g'ma, who *rescued* her, and put K up in her home and then g'ma (my mil) and myself began to search out all available opportunities and avenues for my daughter (for myself this was yet another exhaustive search that I knew would ultimately prove fruitless - my daughter's lack of compliance). My K's g'ma however, up until K lived there for about 4 mos. time - it was very much not a fruitless search. Her opinion, was mostly that, if we could keep things on the positive note and keep things in an upbeat manner and not be down and out and work to search out for K the things she needs *this time K, will work to improve - I just know she will*. So, we went about doing just that. It took about 4 or 5 mos. for g'ma to see that any and all opportunities that we found for K, they were all hopeless.....as K would find a way to undo everything sought out that would benefit her. K was raging regularly, not taking her meds consistently, not participatory in therapy that was available to her, not attending the GED program that had been put in place for her ..... basically not utilizing any of the many services and support structures that had been sought out to help her. G'ma was sick of it and it was fast ruining g'ma's mental health too. G'ma then began to lean on me to take K back into my home. Something, I wouldn't even consider. G'ma then began requesting that I take K off her hands on long weekends, something I did do (against my wishes). It then became evident that K needed to be placed in a setting (group home) where the support services would be enormous (compliance would also be a requirement). We sought out those type settings for her and it took several weeks to put it all together and we were finally successful in doing so. We had her placed - about this time last year in the first of (now several group homes later) many group homes. G'ma said at that time that K had lived there for the very last time. G'ma had come to the realization that while she can offer for K, love and support, a roof over her head and a warm bed to sleep in and food to eat, she can't offer the many, many things that K needs and she certainly can't compromise her health and emotional well being the way she did before. G'ma now realizes this. Since that time, as I said before, K has been in numerous group homes. Reason being, she doesn't comply (or hasn't in the past) w/the many rules and regs of the differing settings and has been invited to vacate each and every one. I stepped off of the whole issue back around the end of October. Had been trying to remain a part of K's life (her chaotic, temultuous existence) if only from a distance. I could no longer do so - was damaging my mental health to remain a part of her life. K's g'ma, once I stepped back .... has stepped in, in a big way. Some of the things that come to mind that g'ma has stepped in to do: K (by this time living in the 3rd of group home placements) called g'ma and said that she was having to make a hasty exit (had made arrangements to live w/a friend). K had apparently pulled a knife on another tennant at this group home and so was going to be evicted. G'ma went over and helped to move K's things to this friend's home and she falsified for K (to the staff) what K's forwarding address would be. K was living w/this *friend* for approximately one month's time and called her g'ma at 4 a.m. to tell her the friend had kicked her out and that she had no where to live. G'ma went and picked her up and placed K in her home, while she sought out another group home setting. An endeavor that I now find out took approximately a month to do. K's case manager (a woman K referred to as a real b*tch) was ready to jump ship on the whole case. She was ready to have K committed to the state psychiatric hospital. K was abusing drugs, prostituting, abusing alcohol and the other ... non- compliance issues. G'ma jumped on board and worked to facilitate a better working arrangement between herself, the case manager and K. G'ma and the case manager, were able to successfully have K placed in another group setting just before xmas. Since that time there have been numerous issues, all relating to the other occupants of this group home or the staff, etc. G'ma has been on board and striving to manage those situations to the best of her ability. G'ma has had K over every weekend (for long weekends), every weekend that she is available to have K over to her house. G'ma tells me that she feels a need to show K that she is loved and supported and also she feels a need to get K out of these hellhole group homes and all the *crazies* that live there, as much as is humanly possible. All while realizing K cannot live w/her. G'ma helped facilitate (as of a week or so ago) another move to another group home setting. One g'ma feels is more suitable. Not as many tennants and certainly not as many folks in this newest group home that are so *out there*, as she describes. G'ma has sent off for the paperwork to help K to be able to get a correspondence type high school diplomma. They will be working on that on the weekends K visits g'ma. I site these examples to show you what this particular g'ma has done as far as her participation in K's life. I'm sure it's much the same, she loves her g'daughter and of course she wants to do what she can to help her, if that's possible. G'ma tells me that she is no fool, she realizes K will play everyone in her life, for all it's worth and she realizes that there may come a day when she too has to back away and not help K. She has told K, apparently, that as long as K will consistently take her medication, be available for appropriate appts. set on her behalf, stay away from drugs/alcohol/prostitution - then she will agree to be a part of K's life but when those terms are no longer being met - she will step back from K's life. So, take from this what you will. Debbie S > Yesterday my 18 year old BP grandson called and asked me if I would buy him > some clothes for his 4th job in 7 months. Of course, I didn't refuse. He > was so nice to me. I took him to the store and he didn't curse and he wasn't > obnoxious. He had previously asked me if he could live with us while the > friend he is living with went with his parents to Puerto Rico. Of course, we > said he could stay for the week. I guess I should have known what was coming > next. Tonight he called and asked if he could move back in for the 4th time > since October. He said he would go to counseling - I didn't answer him. I > know I should say " no " but I can't bring myself to do that. My husband said > he could come back if he went for counseling. I don't know what to do. > In order for him to get the help he needs, he needs a stable envirnonment. > He can't do it alone. > > Ann > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Ann, I'm sorry you and your daughter have to go through this. must really be hurting inside. These PD they affect us all don't they. Maybe you can find out what kind of public assisstance is out there. Have you tried the NAMI meetings, they seem to have a lot of contacts. Katy 's Grandma Thanks for the input Katy. Last night we heard from and he said he just beat some guy up and his eye was bleeding and a car window was broken. I told him that we couldn't deal with his out-of-control behavior and that he could not live here. Don't know where he will go. My heart is breaking and I'm so worried. He doesn't have many options out there. He doesn't want to help himself (we've suggested he go to an inpatient facility). He won't take medication. He's just a mess. The doctor has put me on Paxil and my daughter is also on a antidepressant. I am just sick over this. Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Debbie Since my grandson was not in the juvinile system (he was at a private residential treatment facility, which I paid half the tuition for and the school district paid half, obviously it didn't work), he has never been in our county system. He has not seen a psychiatrist except when he was hospitalized at our county hospital and by a private psychiatrist for about 5 minutes (he walked out). Before he went the residential treatment facility (he spent 3 years there and they have no after care), he went to a private psychiatrist who hasn't seen him in 4 years. So he is definitely not in the system. My feeling iis that he would have to , with our help of course, reach out to get help in the system and I don't think he would do that. He has never taken meds on a continual basis as the RTF did not administer meds (another mistake). Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Ann, hoping your community is much like mine. You may have to do what we've had to. My daughter couldn't live w/us any longer (too dangerous - or potentially so). She couldn't live w/her g'ma any longer (ruining her health - emotionally speaking). Can't live w/my mom (she accused mom's husband of *inappropriate touching*). Those are the only options K had, locally. We have siblings (me and my husband) that live out of town, but none of them are willing to offer up their home to K, for obvious reasons. Is your son part of the community mental health system. We got my daughter a case manager when she turned 18 (she had been in the juvy system prior, juvy mental health system - for some services, not a lot but some). That case manager worked to get K in touch w/Voc Rehab services, a psychiatrist and meds thereof, group and individual therapy services and more importantly.....when it became apparent that K had nowhere to live any longer, worked to facilitate a group home living arrangement for K. Mind you K too has never given any indication she wants to be *compliant* w/any of the above services available to her, never. The first of the many group homes she's been in, those services were on-site and available pretty much 24/7. K didn't make use of said services and in fact bucked the system as much as possible, was required to vacate. The case manager and myself then worked to get her into a 2nd group home setting that was equally as supportive as far as services (this, after K had a small stint of living in the streets). In the 2nd home, much the same....wouldn't avail herself of said services. Since that time she's been in other group homes - most of which are absolutely deploreable. The group homes she now finds herself in are known as ALF's (Adult Living Facilities). The presumption being - the support services that have been offered to her (and others in these ALF's) are obviously of no use, the patient is either unwilling/unable to avail themselves of same, so they will provide a roof over there head and a warm meal 3x daily and that's about it. Services are still at her disposal, but not readily handy like they were at the prior settings. Can you see if your community has a mental health resource center such as what I'm describing above. Your son will likely not *get w/the program* either, but at least you can rest assured you've done what you can to be sure he has a bed to sleep in and 3 warm meals a day, if he cares to avail himself of any of it. Debbie S > Debbie > > Thanks for responding. My daughter, although she speaks to him on the phone > and sees him occasionally, usually at my home, does not see him on a regular > basis because she has an order of protection and is also afraid to be alone > with him as he has threatened her. He has never threatened us although he > has called us names. My biggest fear is that he will be homeless if I don't > take him in but I also know that we cannot live with him. He is out of > control, abusive, ungrateful and narcisstic. He says he will comply with > our rules and regulations (which include therapy and medication) but then he > never does. On Christmas Eve he had an altercation with my son and now my > son does not want to be in his presence. I am afraid to say " no, you cannot > live here " because where will he go? I am tormented by the idea that he will > be on the street. > > Ann > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Ann, Yes that is going to be a problem for you guys. My daughter (as a minor and in the juvy mental health system) only received the services of a behavior mod specialist. She didn't qualify for any of their other numerous services, because we are privately insured and middle class (income). The only requirement to get her *into the system* was a dx of a mental health disorder. That would, I assume, be a requirement to get your g'son into the system also. If he isn't compliant enough to even seek the services .... then obviously there's no dx anywhere. Can you, even if you allow him to come live with you for a short stint, insist that he get in to see a psychiatrist for eval and then get rx'd meds (knowing he probably won't follow through enough to take the meds and go to therapy, etc.). But, at least if he lives with you long enough to comply w/a request to get in to see a psyc doc, that'd give you the much needed dx - to at least get him into the system. Is that an option at all? I know this is the very things I've heard suggested at NAMI support group meetings where this issue has arisen, numerous times, w/other folks looking for support. Debbie S > Debbie > > Since my grandson was not in the juvinile system (he was at a private > residential treatment facility, which I paid half the tuition for and the > school district paid half, obviously it didn't work), he has never been in > our county system. He has not seen a psychiatrist except when he was > hospitalized at our county hospital and by a private psychiatrist for about 5 > minutes (he walked out). Before he went the residential treatment facility > (he spent 3 years there and they have no after care), he went to a private > psychiatrist who hasn't seen him in 4 years. So he is definitely not in the > system. My feeling iis that he would have to , with our help of course, > reach out to get help in the system and I don't think he would do that. He > has never taken meds on a continual basis as the RTF did not administer meds > (another mistake). > > Ann > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 Debbie You reminded me that my grandson does have a dx from the medical center where he was sent by the court for an evaluation. Maybe that would work. He has been extremely nice to us the past few days - but he wants to stay here. He has asked if he could stay just 3 days a week because his second job is near us and he needs a ride (he doesn't have a car). Although I don't think the job will last long enough for us to worry about it. (He's had 7 jobs in 7 months.) I doubt he will be able to be " nice " too much longer either. Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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