Re: Re: Moving Up Baudhuin vs Complex Place

[Guest guest]

Yes, but if one cannot effectively address a behavioral issue, how can one

get to teaching?

--------------------------------------------------

Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:25 PM

To: <sList >

Subject: Re: Re: Moving Up Baudhuin vs Complex Place

> I agree with your concern! In addition to kids with autism, it's a

> problem with kids with emotional and behavioral disorders, too--the

> watering down or abandoning of the curriculum and just dealing w/behavior.

>

> Heifferon wrote:

>>

>>

>> I agree that self-help skills, circle time, and all the occupational

>> necessities should be pursued simultaneously with academics but at

>> what ratio? Perhaps a defeatist attitude is present: this kid will

>> never learn to write, read or do math; it might be easier to correct

>> his behavior.

>>

>> Moving Up from Baudhuin...

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > What's the process to make the change? We're looking into a Complex

>> > Place and I know we could discuss it in an IEP meeting, but is that

>> > the only way? I would like to talk to someone about the other programs

>> > and tour some of the schools before letting the school know we want to

>> > move.

>> > > Any ideas for a Complex Place in Weston? Not very promising

>> > according to another post...

>> > > Also, am I stuck with my home school? It's Eagle Point, and I've

>> > never heard anything about it, so I just don't know...

>> > > Thank you so much

>> > >

>> >

>> >

>>

>> ------------------------------------

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I agree with your point, too. I think it depends on the child. In my

experience, sometimes (not always) behavioral issues can be addressed

indirectly, by changing what and/or how one is teaching--what one E/BD

professor up in New York sums up for his students as " too easy, too

hard, too boring. " I've let this idea inform my work with individuals

with autism, as well. I'm thinking of two individuals I worked with in

the past three or four years (in another state), both of whom had autism

and intellectual disability-- " too hard " and " too boring " turned out to

be at the heart of some of their challenging behaviors. For instance,

the consultant in each case had me in the therapy room with edibles

trying to get the child to do vocal imitation drills, despite the fact

that the data over time just didn't support continuing these

efforts--these kids were getting older, they had no appropriate way to

communicate with those around them, and it was time (past time!) for

picture exchange, sign, and/or assistive technology.

Like I said, though--just my experience. Anyone else want to chime in?

Tina Terri Austin wrote:

> Yes, but if one cannot effectively address a behavioral issue, how can one

> get to teaching?

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:25 PM

> To: <sList >

> Subject: Re: Re: Moving Up Baudhuin vs Complex Place

>

>

>> I agree with your concern! In addition to kids with autism, it's a

>> problem with kids with emotional and behavioral disorders, too--the

>> watering down or abandoning of the curriculum and just dealing w/behavior.

>>

>> Heifferon wrote:

>>

>>> I agree that self-help skills, circle time, and all the occupational

>>> necessities should be pursued simultaneously with academics but at

>>> what ratio? Perhaps a defeatist attitude is present: this kid will

>>> never learn to write, read or do math; it might be easier to correct

>>> his behavior.

>>>

>>> Moving Up from Baudhuin...

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> What's the process to make the change? We're looking into a Complex

>>>>>

>>>> Place and I know we could discuss it in an IEP meeting, but is that

>>>> the only way? I would like to talk to someone about the other programs

>>>> and tour some of the schools before letting the school know we want to

>>>> move.

>>>>

>>>>> Any ideas for a Complex Place in Weston? Not very promising

>>>>>

>>>> according to another post...

>>>>

>>>>> Also, am I stuck with my home school? It's Eagle Point, and I've

>>>>>

>>>> never heard anything about it, so I just don't know...

>>>>

>>>>> Thank you so much

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>> ------------------------------------

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

I understand your points . And I think your a great advocate and we are similar by questioning everything. I agree that academics are important. But, I feel, you need to give our children the stepping stones so they can excel in the academics. That's why I like the STAR program...it gives the stepping stones for success in education. Did you visit the website I posted about the STAR program?

To: sList Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 10:17:22 PMSubject: RE: Re: Moving Up Baudhuin vs Complex Place

I think we spend too much time on the non academic areas and not enough time on academics. The system is to short sighted by neglecting reading, writing and arithmetic. Visual clues are a great teacher but if the child can vocalize what he wants, drop the visual clues. All children are different. We should take a closer look at what the child knows instead of stressing what we think he needs. This is the downfall of programs that neglect differences. Moving Up from Baudhuin...> > >> > >> > >> > > What's the process to make the change? We're looking into a > Complex Place and I know we could discuss it in an IEP meeting, but is > that the only way? I would like to talk to someone about the other > programs and tour some of the schools before letting the school know > we want to move.> > > Any ideas for a Complex Place in Weston? Not very promising > according to another post...> > > Also, am I stuck with my home school? It's Eagle Point, and I've > never heard anything about it, so I just don't know...> > > Thank you so much> > >> >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------

[Guest guest]

Liz,

I know that most public schools who have a PTA allow you to be a volunteer in the school. I volunteered at my son's school. I decided to help out in one on the 2nd grade classes. I do not know how other schools operate, as for I only have one child and I am going by my experience there.

To: sList Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:57:14 PMSubject: Re: Re: Moving Up Baudhuin vs Complex Place

Tina,

your advice to and others who are unhappy with public schools is good, but it may be easier said than done. Many schools do not allow family members to have lunch or lunch bunch , and they can't volonteer in a classroom where their child is. Many clusters refrain from having volunteers at all.

has said before that he tried to observe his child, but that the school set limits there too. Most schools that I know of will limit observations.

Liz>>>>>> And what about the autistic child who has social issues and therefore>> needs the one-on-one. In this case the group serves no purpose and>> will waist time when others

in the group or the group itself are being>> addressed. If the child can act as part of the group I would hope he>> is in a regular class.>>>> *From:* sList@ yahoogroups. com>> [mailto:sList@ yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *shirlygilad>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:03 AM>> *To:* sList@ yahoogroups. com>> *Subject:* Re: Moving Up Baudhuin vs Complex Place>>>>>>>>>> You can certainly use ABA principals in a group setting. Groups>> respond

to reinforcements as do individuals. A token system is one>> example of a group ABA approach where there are rules for the group in>> general but you can individualize it to the needs of a specific child.>> In short, , as a BCBA I can tell you that we do not reject the>> group concept. We just don't forget that there are individuals within>> the group.....>>>> Shirly Gilad>>>> >> > >>> > >>> > > From: M Veliz

<Veliz@>>> > > Subject: Re: Moving Up from Baudhuin...>> > > To: sList@ yahoogroups. com>> <mailto:sList% 40yahoogroups. com>>> <mailto:sList% 40yahoogroups. com>>> > > Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 6:02 AM>> > >>> > > Complex place is a smaller group setting of students who have>> greater difficulties with language (based on need of the child). Some>> students who attend complex place may or may not be in the autism>> spectrum disorder. Eagle Point is a wonderful school- the principal>> and staff members there are fantastic! Schedule an appointment and>> visit their open house. You will be pleased! Good luck Vivian!>> >

>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > _____>> > >>> > >>> > > From: Vivian <vivieddiehotmail (DOT) com>>> > > To: sList@ yahoogroups. com>> > > Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 6:45:54 PM>> > > Subject: Re: Moving Up from Baudhuin...>> > >>> > > What is "Complex Place"?>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > From: bijcom>> <http://us.mc1107. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=bijcom@>> <http://us.mc1107. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=bijcom@>>>> > >>> > > Sent:

Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:26 PM>> > >>> > > To: sList@ yahoogroups.>> <http://us.mc1107. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=sList@ yahoogroups. com>> <http://us.mc1107. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=sList@ yahoogroups. com>>>> com>> > >>> > > Subject: Moving Up from Baudhuin...>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > What's the process to make the change? We're looking into a>> Complex Place and I know we could discuss it in an IEP meeting, but is>> that the only way? I would like to talk to someone about the other>>

programs and tour some of the schools before letting the school know>> we want to move.>> > > Any ideas for a Complex Place in Weston? Not very promising>> according to another post...>> > > Also, am I stuck with my home school? It's Eagle Point, and I've>> never heard anything about it, so I just don't know...>> > > Thank you so much>> > >>> >>>>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------>>

[Guest guest]

Let’s assume his receptive language is either close or at grade

level but the expressive language is not. Do we curtail the imput because the

output needs work? This may have nothing to do with math concepts either. You

have to view the whole child and work on those areas that can be worked on. If

the child cannot clean his but but otherwise is toilet trained, his but can

wait but learning the academics can’t or should not. It makes sense if you

realize learning academics is more important than the kids but. Do both but prioritize

the learning. Following a schedule and sitting at a desk are primarily routines

the child learns and autictic children love routine. And if you don’t think so,

try changing the routine. Teaching them math concepts has nothing to do with

any of the above.

If language development is delayed then that is more important

than socializing with peers and learn basic skills such as turn taking. I am

not saying that there should be no emphasis in socialization but not at the

expense of language development.

So we hope your son learns to socialize and take turns. But wait

a minute. He has to be able to read and write to fill out that job application.

If he ever buys anything on his own don’t we want him to be able to compute his

change?  And as far as civilized nations go, someday when he goes into the

voting booth it may be important to know Cuba is 90 miles off the coast of

Florida and it has a communist form of government.

Visuals are very important as long as the child needs them. Once

he can vocalize things you can drop the visuals. In fact drop the visuals

whenever possible. Push the vocal.

I have to admit I don’t know your child but all these children

are never identical and yet we have the inflexible STAR Program to teach them

what it teaches.

From: sList

[mailto:sList ] On Behalf Of Tina Terri Austin

Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:36 PM

To: sList

Subject: Re: Re: Moving Up Baudhuin vs Complex Place

I

disagree that we spend too much time on non-academics and not enough time on

academics. If a child's expressive/receptive language is not on grade/age

level, that should be worked on before trying to teach them to read. It

doesn't even make sense.

Also,

if a first grader cannot wipe their butt, follow a schedule, sit at a desk and

complete a simple task, what good is teaching them subtraction?

If

a child's language development is not age appropriate and they are not

socializing with their peers and learning basic skills like turn taking, asking

to play, then academics are not as important.

When

my son graduates high school, it is more important, I believe, for him to know

how to solve a social problem (so he can get and keep a job) than it is for him

to know who civilized what nation.

Please

note this is just my opinion because I am focused on the social aspect, for my

child, more than the academic aspect.

And,

visuals merely support learning. There is a lot of research to

substantiate that. Some of our kids need the visual because they can

process that faster than the vocal words and sometimes the words are too

much. We talk too much for them sometimes.

And,

I agree that learning should be individualized. Not easy but yes, a great

ultimate goal.

From: Heifferon

Sent: Friday, May 29,

2009 10:17 PM

To: sList

Subject: RE:

Re: Moving Up Baudhuin vs Complex Place

I think we spend too much time on the non

academic areas and not enough time on academics. The system is to short sighted

by neglecting reading, writing and arithmetic. Visual clues are a great teacher

but if the child can vocalize what he wants, drop the visual clues. All

children are different. We should take a closer look at what the child knows

instead of stressing what we think he needs. This is the downfall of programs that

neglect differences.

Moving Up from Baudhuin...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > What's the process to make the change? We're looking into a

> Complex Place and I know we could discuss it in an IEP meeting, but is

> that the only way? I would like to talk to someone about the other

> programs and tour some of the schools before letting the school know

> we want to move.

> > > Any ideas for a Complex Place in Weston? Not very promising

> according to another post...

> > > Also, am I stuck with my home school? It's Eagle Point, and I've

> never heard anything about it, so I just don't know...

> > > Thank you so much

> > >

> >

>

>

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