Intro

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In a message dated 1/5/2003 4:00:26 PM Central Standard Time,

susan_lahti@... writes:

> Subj:Intro

> Date:1/5/2003 4:00:26 PM Central Standard Time

> From:<A HREF= " mailto:susan_lahti@... " >susan_lahti@...</A>

> To:<A

HREF= " mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs-owner " >WTOParentsOfBPs-owner@yahoog\

roups.com</A>

> Sent from the Internet

>

>

>

> I wanted to introduce myself. My son has not been diagnosed with BP but I

> definitely need to set some boundaries and happened to this site and

> wondered if maybe I could learn from you folks.

>

> My husband and I have two sons and both of them were adopted as infants.

> My

> oldest one has always had problems. First and foremost he is a great kid.

> He is very smart and talented in art and athletics. He is funny and

> charismatic. But he also has a ton of issues. There seems to always be

> something huge going on in his life. We are finding more and more about

> his

> birth and they as well have a TON of issues.

>

> My question is this: Are there any other adoptive parents on this list?

> Most of all I want to listen to how you guys have

> dealt with boundary issues. I feel like my goal is to not allow my son

> (who

> is now 14) to ruin my life. Sounds like I'm in the right place.

>

>

>

>

>

Randi Kreger

RandiBPD@...

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 1/5/2003 4:00:26 PM Central Standard Time,

> susan_lahti@... writes:

>

>

>> > Subj:Intro

>> > Date:1/5/2003 4:00:26 PM Central Standard Time

>> > From:<A HREF= " mailto:susan_lahti@... " >susan_lahti@...</A>

>> > To:<A

>> HREF= " mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs-owner " >WTOParentsOfBPs-owner@yah

>> oogroups.com</A>

>> > Sent from the Internet

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > I wanted to introduce myself. My son has not been diagnosed with BP but I

>> > definitely need to set some boundaries and happened to this site and

>> > wondered if maybe I could learn from you folks.

>> >

>> > My husband and I have two sons and both of them were adopted as infants.

>> > My

>> > oldest one has always had problems. First and foremost he is a great kid.

>> > He is very smart and talented in art and athletics. He is funny and

>> > charismatic. But he also has a ton of issues. There seems to always be

>> > something huge going on in his life. We are finding more and more about

>> > his

>> > birth and they as well have a TON of issues.

>> >

>> > My question is this: Are there any other adoptive parents on this list?

>> > Most of all I want to listen to how you guys have

>> > dealt with boundary issues. I feel like my goal is to not allow my son

>> > (who

>> > is now 14) to ruin my life. Sounds like I'm in the right place.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>

>

> Randi Kreger

> RandiBPD@...

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I am the mother of a 24 year old daughter who was diagnosed with BPD and

Bi-Polar a few months before her 18th birthday. At that time, I also

forced her to move out (I found a friend who would take her in) until

she turned 18 and graduated high school because she refused to take

medications.

Our relationship has been very turbulent over the past several years.

The short version is that she has lived on her own, and lived with me

when she wasn't able to make a go of it. Three years ago, after a

physical altercation with me she ended up in jail (Mental Health Court)

where she refused to cooperate and was in and out of jail for contempt

of court. The judge finally became so disgusted with her he dismissed

the case. At the time, I did not really understand the significance of

the BPD and attributed all of her behavior to being bi-polar. I must

say that I have never had anyone profess such deep love for me yet treat

me with such loathing and contempt.

She has been living with me for the past 2 years and I am really only

now focusing in on the BPD. (Coincidentally, it was also two years ago

that I began therapy for myself - ha ha). I also have a 12 year old

daughter in the house. The other daughter has already been to therapy

as well, as I could see that she needed help in dealing with her sister.

A year ago my family and I moved in with Leon who has also just this

list. We have now reached a point where we are telling " C " she has to

move out this summer after she finishes this semester of school. C is

one who rages and unfortunately I have been very codependent and am now

working very hard to stand firm and not let her manipulate me and beat

me up emotionally.

This is really tearing me up, as Leon and I approach her very

differently. So far, our relationship is holding strong as we are united

in getting the dysfunction out of the house. While C tries very hard to

divide us (I feel she is trying to cull me out of the herd and get me

away from my support) I am hoping that I will be able to get some

support, ideas and benefit from the experiences of others on this list

as we struggle to put our lives back together and survive this.

I worry about how C will be able to take care of herself. She is so

self destructive and angry. She is completely unable to manage money

and is totally irresponsible. She has had a myriad of jobs in the past

8 years but can be incredibly charming, vivacious and sweet and is

always hired. I have attempted to get her on SSI Disability, but she

now denies there is anything wrong with her and is letting the process

lapse.

I worry that I am really all C has in this world. Her grandparents are

not able to help her and her father turned his back on her years ago.

She has no one left, but yet I am the perpetual target of her rage and

anger. I have to believe we are doing the right thing in making her

move out, but it is probably the hardest thing I have ever had to do, as

this time I am " letting her go " ... that is, I am willing to let her

suffer the consequences of her actions. It is my prayer that when she

finally hits bottom -- assuming she doesn't kill herself -- she will

realize that she has a problem and needs to take responsibility for

herself and deal with it.

Any words of wisdom??

[Guest guest]

Dear and Leon,

We have been dealing with some of this with our 19-year old, and some of the

things that Leon points out have also been very obvious here. I have seen

that every time we just ignored one of L's objectionable behaviors she would

take that as an endorsement. Whatever she could get away with became the new

rule. This makes it very difficult to be reasonable, as you would be with

your other children. We have left her to her own devices, and told her that

she is not welcome in the house. Our younger kids are now starting to heal

from the suffering they received while they were subject to her rages. The

thing that gets my attention is that the kids were very hurt not necessarily

by behavior where they were the targets of the aggression, but where I,

their mom, was the target. That hurt them very deeply. They want to see L

repent of that kind of attitude.

I decided that it was not my job to walk on eggshells (I don't know how to

do that anyway), and would confront L every time she did something that was

against our house rules. It was pretty much constant, and it was exhausting.

However, I think that now that she is on her own and has to find others to

bail her out she is a bit more likely to be careful with her behavior. I

think that has been good for her.

L left, and found someone to bail her out. However, in that setting she

still is in a conditional relationship, because the bailer could potentially

tire of " helping " her and tell her she has had enough. I am sure L will be

careful not to cross that line. At home, since the relationship is

unconditional, she didn't care about crossing our lines.

However, one thing I think is very important is that you rolemodel whatever

standard you want to hold her up to. If you don't role model it, she will

call you a hypocrite, probably for a good reason.

Well, that's all from me.

Helen

Intro

Hi All,

I am the mother of a 24 year old daughter who was diagnosed with BPD and

Bi-Polar a few months before her 18th birthday. At that time, I also forced

her to move out (I found a friend who would take her in) until she turned 18

and graduated high school because she refused to take medications.

Our relationship has been very turbulent over the past several years. The

short version is that she has lived on her own, and lived with me when she

wasn't able to make a go of it. Three years ago, after a physical

altercation with me she ended up in jail (Mental Health Court) where she

refused to cooperate and was in and out of jail for contempt of court. The

judge finally became so disgusted with her he dismissed the case. At the

time, I did not really understand the significance of the BPD and attributed

all of her behavior to being bi-polar. I must say that I have never had

anyone profess such deep love for me yet treat me with such loathing and

contempt.

She has been living with me for the past 2 years and I am really only now

focusing in on the BPD. (Coincidentally, it was also two years ago that I

began therapy for myself - ha ha). I also have a 12 year old daughter in

the house. The other daughter has already been to therapy as well, as I

could see that she needed help in dealing with her sister.

A year ago my family and I moved in with Leon who has also just this list.

We have now reached a point where we are telling " C " she has to move out

this summer after she finishes this semester of school. C is one who rages

and unfortunately I have been very codependent and am now working very hard

to stand firm and not let her manipulate me and beat me up emotionally.

This is really tearing me up, as Leon and I approach her very differently.

So far, our relationship is holding strong as we are united in getting the

dysfunction out of the house. While C tries very hard to divide us (I feel

she is trying to cull me out of the herd and get me away from my support) I

am hoping that I will be able to get some support, ideas and benefit from

the experiences of others on this list as we struggle to put our lives back

together and survive this.

I worry about how C will be able to take care of herself. She is so self

destructive and angry. She is completely unable to manage money and is

totally irresponsible. She has had a myriad of jobs in the past 8 years but

can be incredibly charming, vivacious and sweet and is always hired. I have

attempted to get her on SSI Disability, but she now denies there is anything

wrong with her and is letting the process lapse.

I worry that I am really all C has in this world. Her grandparents are not

able to help her and her father turned his back on her years ago. She has no

one left, but yet I am the perpetual target of her rage and anger. I have

to believe we are doing the right thing in making her move out, but it is

probably the hardest thing I have ever had to do, as this time I am " letting

her go " ... that is, I am willing to let her suffer the consequences of her

actions. It is my prayer that when she finally hits bottom -- assuming she

doesn't kill herself -- she will realize that she has a problem and needs to

take responsibility for herself and deal with it.

Any words of wisdom??

[Guest guest]

:

Thank you for your reply. I am in still in awe that in the face of

overwhelming evidence that there is NO glimmer of hope that C will " get

it " . Denial is such an amazing issue for her. Your story is nearly identical to

's story with regard to C. I have only been a part of the last two years

and have only lived with her one year. When she was 17, even had

to have her kidnapped to another State as this State (Washington) would

not allow involuntary commitment of a 17 year old. She has lived with

friends and friends of family all with a similar result as yours.

I have never seen anything like it. C has abandoned (or been abandoned)

more friends in the two years I have known her than I have in my entire

lifetime. She has had dozens of jobs (not an exaggeration). She is lucky as

she is vivacious and gets a job easily. She still thinks nothing is wrong

(everyone else has the problem). She is highly self-destructive and does

some self-mutilation (the rationalization for that is that it can't be bad as

her

friends also self-mutilate). Since she is also diagnosed as bipolar she can

get suicidally depressed. There is the biggest fear for . The guilt

would be horrid for her if C did something drastic.

Do you attribute her " getting " it to tough love? My reading tells me it is

usually an " event " that shocks them into seeking help. Was the removal of

your grandchild from your daughter that event?

Leon Milberg leon@...

[Guest guest]

Leon,

I think the " event " was her overdose & court ordered treatment being

confined to a mental hospital.

Most of the info in " Walking on Eggshells " as well as everything else

I've read on bpd - suggests setting boundaries, letting go, changing our

own behavior in order for the bpd person to NOT push our buttons. Most of

that I learned in ToughLove - long before she was diagnosed. So I was

doing all that prior & am still doing that. I have a great support group

& she has phone numbers of people in the group that she can call. That

way it takes me out of the " emotional " equation. I also don't ask her

stuff that I don't want to know the answer to because it's generally a

lie (we have a saying - if they're vertical & their mouth is moving -

it's a lie). I don't confront her about stuff - it's her life.

As far as something drastic happening - I'm sorry but that's a reality I

think we all need to face. The chemical my dau. od'ed on - is the leading

drug that bpd's try to get their hands on (benziopadone - I think that's

what it is). Also - bpd's behavior is such that if it's not " intentional "

self-destruction - it's a cause of their behavior (risky sex - you have

HIV, std's, etc.; risky driving - accidents; drug & alcohol abuse; etc.)

- I am thankful each day my daughter is alive. My hope & prayer is that

she continues on the road to recovery. I have put all that in God's hands

because it's so much bigger and not in my control.

My 2 cents -

in North Texas

[Guest guest]

I couldn't agree more. I do now have a relationship w/my 19 yo BPD

daughter. She and I were estranged for a while (my choice). Since

I've re-entered her life. I don't ask the questions I don't want

answers to. Sometimes I still get told too much information and I

quietly remind her that I'm her mother and there are things she

doesn't need to share with me.

She seems to be doing better these days (at least for now). Probably

a direct result of my lack of involvement (read = micromanaging) her

life.

She does still have a g'ma and her dad (my dh) in her life and doing

for her more than I would like to see happening - but that is their

choice and I've long since come to terms with the fact that each

person has to handle this situation as best suits them.

I will say on the subject of a BPD going to live w/g'parents and

flimflamming them. It happens. It's happened in our case, numerous

times. K can no longer live my mother - she's burned that bridge.

She does still have my dh's mom and has lived w/her on more than one

occasion. However....the big difference being ..... now, g'ma

realizes that if K needs a soft place to land until a more suitable

setting can be found, then g'ma is willing to provide same - but only

temporarily. G'ma now realizes (after a long while and many

struggles) that her home doesn't provide K will all the support

services she needs, it's merely a place to keep her off the

streets...temporarily. So, g'parents can *get it*, eventually.

I too can relate to the younger siblings having to live through too

much w/these BPD's in the home. I have two younger daughters who

have been threatened and physically harmed by their older sister.

They've had to witness far too much turmoil w/it all. I am glad that

K no longer lives here - and more than likely - never will again.

I'm sorry that the places where K finds herself residing these days

are not what I would consider comfy and cozy. They are group homes

w/residents who are typically far worse off in functionality than she

is - but again....these are the choices she's made that have caused

her to no longer be allowed to live in our home. One day when/if she

will get her act together completely, and consistently (to the best

she's able to do so) she will be allowed the priviledge of her very

own apartment. As of yet, that hasn't happened. But, one can hope.

Debbie S

[Guest guest]

, welcome. Have you read the book? Everything in the beginning is to be peeled, seeded and cooked. Not just the beginning couple of days but months. Your problem might be that you have advanced to fast. After the intro, every couple of days you try a new food and see how your body handles it. Keep a food diary what and when you eat and what the symptoms are. Then you will get an idea of what is going on with what food. I'm not familiar with what is wrong with you so I have no experience there. What are in your probiotic strains? There are only a few legal ones. www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info has alot of information. Hoping you start healing, Katy

I started SCD 3 weeks ago.It is definitely effective for me when I was on the cipro. Cipro seemed like it wasn't working, but when I started SCD things improved to a livable level. I could eat farmer's cheese and my own yogurt but not aged cheeses. I also couldn't handle fruits with peels or too much fruit. Other than that I could eat most SCD things.Now I am off the cipro for 2 days and going back to being sick despite staying on SCD. I am taking two probiotics now. My poor bottom is very unhappy right now and I am unable to sleep at night because of the pain. I see the doc again later today. Any advice on handling raging SBBO or some of the side effects of visiting the bathroom way too often would be appreciated. Thanks,