Guest guest Posted June 21, 2000 Report Share Posted June 21, 2000 Right Re: ASBS-booth-eye view > >Thanks for the eye opener report! I had suspected (my surgeon confirmed this) that they knew little about nutrition. Let's face it, the major concern is the procedure and the physical effects of it. It's a fairly new surgery so there are probably a lot of areas yet left unexplored. Hopefully, the experience of the older patients, the pluses and the minuses, will help them. I know that my yearly check-up with my surgeon is coming up and I dread the thought of the useless visit with the dietician. Last year, they had a new dietician on staff and she convinced me to comply with his instructions to see her. I complained bitterly about how disgusted I was with the " help " that I received from them. I feel I could teach them at this point. > >One question, in your post you said " You can check a >history of obesity surgeries to find out which deficiencies will show up later. (see the list of undigested elements for a hint). " > >Where csn we find this info? Is it on the web or just available in medical libraries? >Inquiring minds want to know ) >Thanks! >Carol >Richmond, VA > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >SALESFORCE.COM MAKES SOFTWARE OBSOLETE >Secure, online sales force automation with 5 users FREE for 1 year! >http://click./1/2658/10/_/576511/_/961675062/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2000 Report Share Posted June 22, 2000 In a message dated 6/22/00 4:58:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, civory@... writes: << dietician >> That's the key here. Dietitians know little about nutrition generally, and even worse when it comes to WLS patients. they still think of us eating the FDA Pyramid of foods that include high carbs and sugar. You need to see a certified nutritionist and one who is experienced in treating WLS patients. Unfortunately they are few and afar between! BobA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2000 Report Share Posted June 22, 2000 Thanks for the eye opener report! I had suspected (my surgeon confirmed this) that they knew little about nutrition. Let's face it, the major concern is the procedure and the physical effects of it. It's a fairly new surgery so there are probably a lot of areas yet left unexplored. Hopefully, the experience of the older patients, the pluses and the minuses, will help them. I know that my yearly check-up with my surgeon is coming up and I dread the thought of the useless visit with the dietician. Last year, they had a new dietician on staff and she convinced me to comply with his instructions to see her. I complained bitterly about how disgusted I was with the " help " that I received from them. I feel I could teach them at this point. One question, in your post you said " You can check a history of obesity surgeries to find out which deficiencies will show up later. (see the list of undigested elements for a hint). " Where csn we find this info? Is it on the web or just available in medical libraries? Inquiring minds want to know ) Thanks! Carol Richmond, VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2000 Report Share Posted June 22, 2000 Hi ! Excellent info. This is exactly why I recommend others to you because I know that you KNOW your stuff. To you, this is a passion not a profit. You LIVE this stuff every day and have for years. I trust the knowledge you have and also have benefited from that. PLUS, all the scientific and documented materials you have sent to me only reinforces what you tell me. Hopefully, the door has been opened (by attending the ASBS). More options need to be available. Cheryl Open Transected RNY - 6/8/99 Preop: 254.8 Current: 138 > Warning: the P-word will be discussed below. > > Since you were all talking about nutrition info or lack of it, I figured it > was time to tell you about our time at the conference. But bearing in mind, > we were there in a protein booth. As to how & why we got there, I should > give a little background. > > At the time I had my surgery, there were 2 choices available for protein: > grit or slime. I was able to live with grit for nearly a year. Someone > else discovered the first decent protein. But after a time, I got to > thinking perhaps there was more, perhaps at less than $42 a jug, too. So, I > started hunting and researching for other brands, other products, etc. > Anyway, that's what I do. I don't MAKE it, I don't network market or > anything like that. I go out and hunt down products worthy to be used by > Our Kind. > > The products best adapted for use by us are in the sports nutrition field. > They are not made for us, so have to be adapted for best use. Even with > beating my head against them for 5 years, only two mfrs have been interested > in entering Our World. One of them (my own personal brand) is very > interested, but not " committed " . Yet. The other one, was interested > enough to spend the money to set up a booth and send a body to man that > booth AND to give away hundreds of dollars worth of product. Since I > couldn't afford to both get myself there AND pay for a booth AND send all > that product, this was not a Vitalady booth. > > It appeared, then, that we were representing one particular brand, which we > don't in real life. We actually have MANY. I just sift 'n sort and > eliminate inferior products or ones that are designed specifically to put on > weight, etc. All recommend using with skim milk to add calories and weight. > We were able to have drink machines set up so passers-by could sample, as > well as bars, cut for sampling. It was a busy booth and one of a kind. > There ARE no sports nutrition people interested in US! > > I should've known, but to my GREAT surprise, our biggest hurdle to overcome > was (you guessed it) MILK. To us, that's rather like comparing a skateboard > to a Rolls. I thought the poor mfr would have to be revived a couple of > times!! We had a comparison sheet of this protein vs Ensure, Boost and CIB > + milk. I'd say 99% of the docs had NO idea protein products like this > existed AT ALL. > > Some said they wanted to use the CIB + milk because it was cheaper (it's > not). NOT one who used it had ANY concept of the sugar vs protein count of > the milk + CIB. One doc knew sugar was a bad thing. The others had a vague > idea. Still others thought getting enough nutrition was " the patient's > problem, not mine " , and so on through the theories. Now, the nutritionists > and dieticians knew about how much sugar they are force feeding, but it > isn't important to them. > > As Carol said, they are (mostly) clueless about how we got heavy and how to > get us max thin and good health post-op. They use their normie book. > However, those rules don't apply to us. We can absorb very little of the > few g of protein (or calcium) in milk, but we will get 100% of the sugar. > CIB is hardly worth mentioning in content. Regular CIB is mega sugar, tiny > protein. NSA is a bit better, but with milk, you've gotten 12g of undigested > protein and 22g of very digestible sugar. > > The truly alarming thing was how many surgeons will be performing their > FIRST rny's THIS week and have no follow-up plans in place AT ALL. Does > that chill you to your toes or what? > > So, we were very well received, overall. Dr Carolyn made a splash, looking > healthy and slender and being a no-nonsense person AND an MD, she was able > to open quite a few eyeballs. Some docs will now try to learn a bit more > about post-op deficiencies, though much of it is easily available. I said > the stats on deficiencies were available, not how to prevent them! How to > use supps of ALL kinds seems to be absent from anything I've looked at, > anyway. > > Most docs admit to 7 hours of nutritional study (way back when), if that. > The bits and pieces are available. For example, you can check a physiology > book to find which elements are lost with the stomach. The degree of > malabsorption is a second consideration AFTER digestion. You can check a > history of obesity surgeries to find out which deficiencies will show up > later. (see the list of undigested elements for a hint). You can read > labels to see which products carry what and measure how much 8 oz = 8g of > protein vs 4 oz = 30g of protein. The bits and pieces are all around out > there if you care to hunt them down. > > Why don't docs recommend protein supp? For the ones who care to recommend > any post-op nutrition besides " eat what you tolerate " , the reason is that > they simply don't know it exists. > > I'm not trying to sell ANYTHING here. We see what works, we see what > doesn't. Buy the stuff anywhere, but use the RIGHT stuff and use it > FAITHFULLY. > > > > Thanks, > > > www.vitalady.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2000 Report Share Posted June 22, 2000 Hey everyone, Well today is my one year anniversary. I weighed at 235 pounds, which is 173 lbs less than one year ago. I never imagined it could really happen for me. I do have a question. I got my labs back today. My protien was 6.1 is that good, bad, or other? My PCP said it was OK, but I don't think he has much understanding of WLS. I also found out today that I have a Hiatal Hernia. That kind of hernia wouldn't help me get my Panni would it? Didn't think so. Of all the luck. lol Love & Hugs, Patti " Too Blessed to be Stressed " RNY 6/22/99 408 10/29/99 308 6/15/00 237 6/22/00 235 Re: ASBS-booth-eye view >>>> > , > I have a proximal RNY, do you believe that we don't digest milk protein, too? > I don't have much problem with dumping or with drinking milk but if I am not > digesting the protein from the milk then that would explain some things that > are going on with me, i.e., not getting enough protein, since I use milk as > part of my protein count. Could you suggest some web sites about this? > > Hugs, > Bonnie B. > Intestinal Bypass 10/98 at 404 pounds > Revision to Gastric Bypass 8/99 at 304 pounds > Currently 260 pounds > Dr. Meyerowitz > South San Francisco, Kaiser<<<<<< Bonnie--- most of lose the protein and calcium value in the STOMACH, not the intestine. (VBG's and bands and rings, get it all, but can't get ENOUGH of it) I'm not as web savvy as some, so I recommend the local library. Grab a physiology book and look up the digestive system. There you will see which elements are not digested when the lower stomach is out of the loop. Granted, you have a better chance to get SOMETHING with your proximal, as some of the digestive juices will still drip down and create a bit of absorption. However, with milk actually containing only 8g of protein, if you got half, that'd be only 4g. But you will get 100% of the sugars. So, if you had 3 glasses of milk per day, that'd be 12g of protein, 36g of sugar. Doesn't go very far toward a basic 60g protein need. But will keep the sugar cravings cranked up to HIGH, between the constant flow of milk and the protein shortage. I woud imagine there IS a phsyiology text online, but I dont' know how to get to it. The info I had here on the KNOWN shrotages, too, was from the ASBS. They mailedme a huge packet on the hisptry of obesity after I peppered her with a couple hundred emails on everything! But it matches the physiology book, so one is " here's what WILL happen " and the hisotry shows " what DID hapen " . The shortages you can expect are: protein calcium iron A D E zinc B12 maybe magnesium & potassium ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2000 Report Share Posted June 23, 2000 Happy Anniversary Patti " You've come a long way baby! " Tracey Re: ASBS-booth-eye view > Hey everyone, > Well today is my one year anniversary. I weighed at 235 pounds, which is 173 lbs less than one year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2000 Report Share Posted June 23, 2000 > >The shortages you can expect are: >protein >calcium >iron >A >D >E >zinc >B12 >maybe magnesium & potassium > most definitely magnesium - again I'll say it - 60% of americans are deficient in magnesium anyhow - not just wls patients - americans no longer eat 'whole' foods as everything is processed and the magnesium is removed. we need the magnesium even more than non-wls folks. your magnesium should be taken with your Bvitamins and in the dosage of 2:1 to your calcium supplement. [if you take 1000mg. of calcium, take 500 magnesium] Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2000 Report Share Posted June 23, 2000 my nutritionist says she did a thesis on the relationship of magnesium to calcium... says its real important for calcium absoption. She also says 2 to 1 ratio.... Sue, were you tested for magnesium?.. I don't think I've been tested for this. I take chelated magnesium ... thought it would be OK. Trish >most definitely magnesium - again I'll say it - 60% of >americans are deficient in magnesium anyhow - not just wls >patients - americans no longer eat 'whole' foods as >everything is processed and the magnesium is removed. we >need the magnesium even more than non-wls folks. >your magnesium should be taken with your Bvitamins and in >the dosage of 2:1 to your calcium supplement. [if you take >1000mg. of calcium, take 500 magnesium] >Sue > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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