RE: help with reducing calories/regulating protein/weaning meds

July 7, 2002

Each kid is different in terms of activity level and metabolism. I don't

know.... without finding my Freeman book and looking it up.... what his calories

should be but obviously they are too high right now for him. On the

protein,..... at 58 pounds, he is 26.36 kilos....so, it looks like they set him

at just under 1 gm of protein per kilo (daily total). I personally would want it

to be a bit higher if it were my kid.... more like 1.2 gms per kilo.....so 9 or

10 gms would be about that...... and that's what I would prefer. I do think you

should get the calories reduced so that he at least stops gaining and just get

that all worked out and stabilized so you don't have to monkey around with it

during a drug wean..... although be prepared for needing to make slight drops in

ratio when you're weaning. I wouldn't put back the dose you just dropped.... but

hang tight right there until you work the calories and protein out.

Patti, mom to Katera

help with reducing calories/regulating protein/weaning

meds

To the diet experts -- Leo has gained about 5 lbs since starting the diet

two months ago. Clearly, too much. Am wondering how much to reduce his

calories, but also how much protein to calculate per meal. He started the

diet at 58 lbs (perfect for his height) but is now up to about 63-64 and

pudging.. They calculated his calories at 1800 a day, 463 per meal (4

meals) and 8.6 protein permeal. I'm wondering how much I should go down

and whether I should up protein to say 9 or 10 grams a meal.

Also -- just dropped a half -capsule of Depakote this AM. Thought I could

do this at the same time as lowering calories but maybe its a mistake. What

do you diet experts think? One first, then the other. Am so impatient to

get ride of the Depakote but should we wait until calories and weight are

under control? Thanks in advance. Jane

July 7, 2002

Jane Praeger wrote:

> To the diet experts -- Leo has gained about 5 lbs since starting the

> diet

> two months ago. Clearly, too much. Am wondering how much to reduce

> his

> calories, but also how much protein to calculate per meal. He started

> the

> diet at 58 lbs (perfect for his height) but is now up to about 63-64

> and

> pudging.. They calculated his calories at 1800 a day, 463 per meal (4

>

> meals) and 8.6 protein permeal. I'm wondering how much I should go

> down

> and whether I should up protein to say 9 or 10 grams a meal.

Yeesh, sounds like a lot of calories! How old is he and how tall??

PS About the dep and the calorie thing, if you are not seeing any signs

of toxicity I would do the calories first and wait a while on the dep

July 7, 2002

Thank you, Patti. Do you think I should be prepared to drop the ratio even

though he's already at 3.1? He's extremely irritable these days -- temper

tantrums galore -- but no other signs of being too ketotic as far as I can

tell (no red ears or cheeks -- just being a total pain the neck!) Is there

some other sign of needing to drop the ratio that I should look for? Thanks

again. jane

" The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last

resort! "

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It is important to get medical advice from a professional

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July 7, 2002

Hmmm..... well, that's how I always knew when Katera needed a drop....

irritability (and ketones of 160+ all the time). It really depends on the kid,

though. If his ketones are always very dark, he may just not need a super high

ratio to maintain ketosis.... whatever it takes... ketosis is the point, not

ratio. If he hasn't been on the diet very long you want to go very slow

though.....maybe .2 at a time only..... and really give plenty of time after a

drop and watch like a hawk. I'm not sure I would drop him at all this early on

unless you are seeing super dark ketones all the time.... I just wanted to

mention it because it has been necessary for some parents.... some kids' ketones

tend to go higher as you wean drugs.

patti

RE: help with reducing calories/regulating

protein/weaning meds

Thank you, Patti. Do you think I should be prepared to drop the ratio even

though he's already at 3.1? He's extremely irritable these days -- temper

tantrums galore -- but no other signs of being too ketotic as far as I can

tell (no red ears or cheeks -- just being a total pain the neck!) Is there

some other sign of needing to drop the ratio that I should look for? Thanks

again. jane

" The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last

resort! "

List is for parent to parent support only.

It is important to get medical advice from a professional

keto team!

Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe

Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe

July 8, 2002

Well, that's interesting. Because his ketones are usually 80 in the AM, 120

in the afternoon, and 120-160 at night. This morning they were 160 -- very

unusual. If they stay this high for the next week, I'll try reducing by

..2. I am also cutting out the daytime carnosine because this seemed to

contribute to his irritability as well -- or at least it coincided with it.

If he's still so irritable in a week, I'll be more sure its the ketones.

thanks again, Jane

Re: help with reducing calories/regulating

protein/weaning meds

Hmmm..... well, that's how I always knew when Katera needed a drop....

irritability (and ketones of 160+ all the time). It really depends on the

kid, though. If his ketones are always very dark, he may just not need a

super high ratio to maintain ketosis.... whatever it takes... ketosis is the

point, not ratio. If he hasn't been on the diet very long you want to go

very slow though.....maybe .2 at a time only..... and really give plenty of

time after a drop and watch like a hawk. I'm not sure I would drop him at

all this early on unless you are seeing super dark ketones all the time....

I just wanted to mention it because it has been necessary for some

parents.... some kids' ketones tend to go higher as you wean drugs.

patti

RE: help with reducing calories/regulating

protein/weaning meds

Thank you, Patti. Do you think I should be prepared to drop the ratio

even

though he's already at 3.1? He's extremely irritable these days --

temper

tantrums galore -- but no other signs of being too ketotic as far as I

can

tell (no red ears or cheeks -- just being a total pain the neck!) Is

there

some other sign of needing to drop the ratio that I should look for?

Thanks

again. jane

" The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last

resort! "

List is for parent to parent support only.

It is important to get medical advice from a

professional

keto team!

Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe

Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe

July 8, 2002

He's just turned 7 and is 4' 3 " . Tall and usually skinny.

Re: help with reducing calories/regulating

protein/weaning meds

Jane Praeger wrote:

> To the diet experts -- Leo has gained about 5 lbs since starting the

> diet

> two months ago. Clearly, too much. Am wondering how much to reduce

> his

> calories, but also how much protein to calculate per meal. He started

> the

> diet at 58 lbs (perfect for his height) but is now up to about 63-64

> and

> pudging.. They calculated his calories at 1800 a day, 463 per meal (4

>

> meals) and 8.6 protein permeal. I'm wondering how much I should go

> down

> and whether I should up protein to say 9 or 10 grams a meal.

Yeesh, sounds like a lot of calories! How old is he and how tall??

PS About the dep and the calorie thing, if you are not seeing any signs

of toxicity I would do the calories first and wait a while on the dep

July 8, 2002

Well sounds like a lot of calories, my 9 year old gets, I don't have it

in front me of me right at the moment, but its either 1300 and something

or 1400, around there.

I would suggest reducing 100 calories (some might say this is too fast

and suggest only 50 at a time) but I think I would start with 100 and

keep a close eye on height and weight with the idea being that you will

likely have to remove some more after a while.

About the protien, it looks pretty good to me, think I would leave it

alone for now

Good luck

Jane Praeger wrote:

> He's just turned 7 and is 4' 3 " . Tall and usually skinny.

>

> > To the diet experts -- Leo has gained about 5 lbs since starting

> the

> > diet

> > two months ago. Clearly, too much. Am wondering how much to

> reduce

> > his

> > calories, but also how much protein to calculate per meal. He

> started

> > the

> > diet at 58 lbs (perfect for his height) but is now up to about

> 63-64

> > and

> > pudging.. They calculated his calories at 1800 a day, 463 per

> meal (4

> >

> > meals) and 8.6 protein permeal. I'm wondering how much I should

> go

> > down

> > and whether I should up protein to say 9 or 10 grams a meal.

>

> Yeesh, sounds like a lot of calories! How old is he and how tall??

>

> PS About the dep and the calorie thing, if you are not seeing any

> signs

> of toxicity I would do the calories first and wait a while on the

> dep

July 9, 2002

Thanks, /Joan/Patti -- am wondering whether its OK to drop one meal

(460 calories) to a snack or half-meal (230) than reduce every meal by 60

calories to get him to the right level. He seems to do OK with a snack

instead of one of his meals at 4:30. Then he would get about 450 calories

for three meals ( total 1350) and 225 for the other. I think I may need to

drop a little faster than 100 calories a day because he's gained 5 lbs in

less than three months. Just wondering if it was kosher to do it this way

instead of reducing each meal by 60 calories. It seems easiest for the

moment. I'll leave his protein alone.

BTW -- we reduced Depakote to 1/2 capsule in the AM, 3 at night.

Interestingly, have seen NO seizures in the daytime, and bigger ones at

night, one hour after taking the Depakote. Now, I know my neuro would argue

that this is because of reduced Depakote level in general. But isn't it

possible that reducing the calories (at night Keto stick registers 160

instantly) and keeping the Depakote at 3 capsules is actually what's making

the night seizures worse?

Re: help with reducing calories/regulating

protein/weaning meds

Well sounds like a lot of calories, my 9 year old gets, I don't have it

in front me of me right at the moment, but its either 1300 and something

or 1400, around there.

I would suggest reducing 100 calories (some might say this is too fast

and suggest only 50 at a time) but I think I would start with 100 and

keep a close eye on height and weight with the idea being that you will

likely have to remove some more after a while.

About the protien, it looks pretty good to me, think I would leave it

alone for now

Good luck

Jane Praeger wrote:

> He's just turned 7 and is 4' 3 " . Tall and usually skinny.

>

> > To the diet experts -- Leo has gained about 5 lbs since starting

> the

> > diet

> > two months ago. Clearly, too much. Am wondering how much to

> reduce

> > his

> > calories, but also how much protein to calculate per meal. He

> started

> > the

> > diet at 58 lbs (perfect for his height) but is now up to about

> 63-64

> > and

> > pudging.. They calculated his calories at 1800 a day, 463 per

> meal (4

> >

> > meals) and 8.6 protein permeal. I'm wondering how much I should

> go

> > down

> > and whether I should up protein to say 9 or 10 grams a meal.

>

> Yeesh, sounds like a lot of calories! How old is he and how tall??

>

> PS About the dep and the calorie thing, if you are not seeing any

> signs

> of toxicity I would do the calories first and wait a while on the

> dep

July 9, 2002

Sure.... I think you can do the reduction that way. I think it's going to be the

daily total that matters. Hmmm...... interesting about the Dep. I suspect that

having him be REALLY ketotic at the end of the day is interacting in some way

with the med, too...... just going on instinct here.

Patti