Re: approaching strangers...one man's story

May 7, 2000

Daivd, if I may be so bold, I must disagree with you. This woman was most

definitely hurt by your approach to her. But her letter to you also shows

that she indeed is one of the few that make any kind of discussion about

weight a " political " discussion. All of us here are either morbidly obese or

are ex-morbidly obese. All of us here have struggled with issues surrounding

our obesity. There are a small minority who believe that any discussion

about weight loss is a discussion that is almost morally wrong and is not

politically correct. They believe that fat acceptance is the way to go. The

very fact that this person believes that the weight loss industry loves

weight loss operations is ludicrous. We all know that the opposite is true.

I am not saying that you should walk up to every obese person you see and

start talking about WLS. I merely think that you happened to approach a

person who not only has issues of obesity to deal with but also issues of a

political nature as well. By the way, although I am happily married and the

mother of a wonderful daughter in college, I am an avowed feminist. But

feminism has nothing to do with obesity and acceptance. We are talking about

health.

Alice

LAP RNY Sept 1, 1998 Dr. Champion, Atlanta

May 7, 2000

, I'm really sorry you had such an awful experience but I still think

you did the right thing in approaching this woman. She might have had the

opposite reaction and your deed might have completely turned her life

around. You certainly weren't sexist or any of the things she accused you

of being. Don't be so hard on yourself, you did what you thought was the

right thing and certainly didn't mean to hurt her feelings. She doesn't

sound like a real pleasant person to me. She could have given you the

benefit of the doubt! Each of us is responsible for our own feelings. She

obviously feels bad enough about herself to react in such a harsh manner.

Once again, I think you did a very brave thing and would hate to think that

someone else may not have the opportunity to benefit from your knowledge

and experience!

Ellen

VBG - 12/97 - 365lbs

RNY - 9/1/99 - 286

5/2/00 - 205

May 7, 2000

--

Sorry to hear you had such a negative experience with this. I know your

heart was in the right place. Hope that it heals soon.

--El

May 7, 2000

I feel so BAD for you I can hardly stand it. You did nothing wrong in what

you did. I guess I am amazed that someone so severely handicapped by obesity

could be so blinded and angry about their condition to turn on you like she

did. And who are these so called friends of hers to fuel her rage? Of course

maybe they are afraid of her. I am glad you shared what happened in this

whole thing because it does make me think twice about approaching someone

like you did. What if you walked up to a smoker and handed them a note about

a great way to quit smoking? Would there be the potential for them to rage

at you like she did? Wow, I don't even know what to think of all this....

don't allow yourself to feel bad about yourself. You are a wonderful

person....... Jan C> 3-11-98 RNY

approaching strangers...one man's story

>Group:

>

>As you may remember, a week ago I was all torn up because I saw an

>overweight woman with at least one cane/crutch struggle into a movie

>theater. It was a special showing under the auspices of the Austin Gay &

>Lesbian Film Festival, so it was a smaller population than you'd find in a

>mall. Chances are that anyone you would encounter there probably knew

>someone who knew you.

>

>Anyway, after really suffering over it, changing my mind back and forth, I

>handed her a note saying that it was my 2 year WLS anniversary. I had had

2

>knee surgeries, high blood pressure, etc. I said I had the " newer " surgery

>approved by the NIH, that insurance would often pay, and that when it

>wouldn't Texas Rehab Commission would. I said I knew the note was

>presumptuous, and left my first name and number and said she could call and

>ask me about or call and chew me out for being whatever it was I was being.

>I looked at her after the movie and said that I had a note I wanted to give

>her, and asked if that was okay. She said yes.

>

>Yesterday, I got a message from her saying that I had hurt her very, very

>much. I made totally incorrect assumptions about the origins of her

>disability. She felt attacked and others concurred with her that it was an

>attack. It was sexist, it was disability negative, fat negative and had an

>element of class discrimination in it. She told me that it was not her job

>to educate me about these things although she had friends who wanted to.

>She said she had good medical help who advised her that WLS was fueling the

>weight loss industry doctor's greed and taking unfair advantage of people's

>self-hatred for being fat. She said to never, ever approach her again, not

>to ever do this to anyone else again, and that she was sorry I felt like it

>was okay to judge people.

>

>I had retrieved this message from the car wash. I got white and almost

>threw up at the thought that I had hurt and upset someone so much. When I

>got home, her name and number was on my machine. I called because I did

not

>want to debate her on any of her perceptions, but just to say that I had

>made a judgment error handing a stranger a note and that I was deeply

sorry.

>After I said hello, she said, " , you need to not call me. " and hung

up.

>

>I was reeling from this when I went to the pharmacy to pick up a

>prescription where the druggist who knew me before just grilled me on WLS

on

>behalf of two relatives of hers. I told her about a few sites, said to

feel

>free to use my name and number and that I would do anything I could to tell

>people about my experience.

>

>Moral of the story: I will, and I repeat, I will NEVER, EVER, EVER

approach

>anyone again about their weight or WLS. I will forever be patient and

spend

>all of the time and energy I can talking to people who are interested. I

>hope I am fortunate enough to continue to be successful and have my life

and

>health be an example to others, because without WLS I'd be fat and having

>trouble getting around, too. I was reminded again how much suffering there

>is around obesity, mine included.

>

>Gripe: Although I knew it was risky and have had those suspicions

>confirmed, this woman brought a whole lot to the table with her. She never

>once conceded that even though my action demonstrated bad judgment, I could

>possibly have had a well-meaning bone in my body. I was evil incarnate.

On

>one hand she said she had a good feeling around being fat, yet she didn't

>wad up the note and throw it on the floor. She stayed upset for a week and

>then unloaded her well-thought out diatribe on me. At what point was I

>being sexist? At what point was I judging? She saw me as a white upper

>middle class man, not as a crippled, obese member of a minority like

>herself. I didn't even *know* she was disabled. When she said don't

>approach her, I figured she meant don't approach her like I did before if I

>saw her at a similar gathering. I glazed over the fact she probably meant

>not to call as well because I wanted to apologize so badly. Of course, she

>didn't know I had caller ID. She didn't give me the chance to apologize

for

>wrecking her, but I didn't really give her a chance when I handed her the

>note and then left, so I guess we're two unhappy people now, but perhaps

>even.

>

>I was all emotional about the two-year anniversary, and thought that I

>should just stop being scared of people and do it. I went back and forth

>six times! I am just a lot more aware now that none of us know what kind

of

>a day/life anyone else is having and that the approach to strangers is

>indeed too risky. It makes me sick that I upset someone so much. I hope I

>get over it soon and I really hope I don't run into her although I will

just

>stare past her.

>

>I do have a plan now.

>

> Bandas

>Austin, TX

>RNY 4-28-98, Dr. Selinkoff, San , TX

>Then: 305 Now: 185

>120 pounds gone forever!

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

May 7, 2000

In a message dated 05/07/2000 4:13:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

dbandas@... writes:

> I was all emotional about the two-year anniversary, and thought that I

> should just stop being scared of people and do it. I went back and forth

> six times! I am just a lot more aware now that none of us know what kind

of

> a day/life anyone else is having and that the approach to strangers is

> indeed too risky. It makes me sick that I upset someone so much. I hope I

> get over it soon and I really hope I don't run into her although I will

just

> stare past her.

>

> I do have a plan now.

>

> Bandas

> Austin, TX

> RNY 4-28-98, Dr. Selinkoff, San , TX

> Then: 305 Now: 185

> 120 pounds gone forever!

>

,

Nothing ventured, nothing gained . . . growth and change are often

painful. I think the whole situation is a pretty sad commentary on our

society in general, not you, her! This crap about not judging is baloney .

.. . we all make judgments every couple of minutes and they keep us faithful

to our morals and our life's compass . . . her talking about judgments as if

it were possible not to judge at all is B.S. It is she not you who made a

negative judgment. All that aside, my surgeon did say at support group that

he will not originate the subject of gastric bypass with his morbidly obese

general surgery patients. The reason he gave is that people that come up

with WLS as a possible solution and approach him are always more successful

and compliant patients then those who have been instructed to do it by a well

meaning relative ect . . .

But thanks for sharing your experience, I know how hurt you must feel

to be that misunderstood . . . approaching somebody that qualifies for WLS

will never cross my mind again thanks to your sharing your experience!

Vicki in CA

May 7, 2000

----- Original Message -----

>What if you walked up to a smoker and handed them a note about

> a great way to quit smoking? Would there be the potential for them to rage

> at you like she did?

My answer to the above is, " Yes. " When this thread first hit [with the

movie theatre where you can order food from your seat!] my initial response

was to be careful. What I saw happening was the approached individual would

become upset/hurt because what you have done is *noticed* they are fat.

Once that occurs rational thinking is lost until the sting wears off.

How quickly so many forget. Do any of you really believe that approaching a

stranger is going to be something that will be received joyously with open

arms? The best that could come from a situation like this is hurt and the

planting of the seed for future reference.

I love the smoking analogy as I can relate to both. I get very angry when I

am out and someone comments on how smoking is bad for me and why don't I try

the " patch. " Do they think I live in a vacuum? Do they question for one

second that I don't know smoking is bad for me? Do they think I would still

be smoking if I was able to quit? Do they think I never have seen a

newspaper, television or listened to a radio where I heard about the patch.

Maybe you need to try and remember how the " stares " of strangers hurt. Try

to remember when friends and loved ones [let alone strangers] told you being

fat was so unhealthy and you should go on a diet. There is little

difference here with the exception that the intent was good.

Just my .02, but I am able to empathize...

May 7, 2000

,

I feel so bad about your encounter with someone with such a level of denial

that WLS probably would not be successful since her head is so far up her

butt! I feel more pain for you and your kind and sincere efforts to help than

I do for her. Her insensitivity and anger, and underneath it all her fear,

was fueled by her ignorance and that of her so called friends.

I understand how you feel when you see a morbidly obese person. I get very

sad and often tear up when I see someone who looks like I used to look and

who I'm sure feels like I used to feel. We did not have WLS to look good. We

look good because we had WLS. We had WLS to save our lives. People who are

content with obesity are just afraid. Weight for them may have many purposes.

We can't know what purpose morbid obesity has for those we don't know. That

makes approaching strangers risky business. I don't do it but if they give me

any hint or even ask a question they are in for the whole shpeal, including

pictures!

Don't take this personally. You did a good deed, a mitzvah (that's Yiddish

for a good deed). We can't cure everyone, but that doesn't stop us from

feeling and caring. Don't stop that!

Take care.

BobA

Biliopancreatic Diversion (A Very Distal RNY) on 10/8/98

220 Pounds Gone Forever, But Not Forgotten!

May 7, 2000

I am so sorry to hear how the whole story went. I think it was wrong of her

to just assume you were 'evil' in your intentions and I hope you know and

believe in your heart that what you did took courage and was for purely good

intentions. Here's to you buddie - I still think you done good!

Kim

May 7, 2000

I need to put my .02 in again. I am also a reformed smoker (that was worth

40 pounds each on two occasions) but the analogy still works. My point,

again is that the note was private. It wasn't like the spotlight was

shining for the world to see. I have given info to several people. Part of

them started researching the procedures. Some said they wouldn't even

consider it. No one thought I was being discriminatory, or if they did,

they didn't throw a hissy fit over it. Suzan.

Re: approaching strangers...one man's story

>

>----- Original Message -----

>

>>What if you walked up to a smoker and handed them a note about

>> a great way to quit smoking? Would there be the potential for them to

rage

>> at you like she did?

>

>My answer to the above is, " Yes. " When this thread first hit [with the

>movie theatre where you can order food from your seat!] my initial response

>was to be careful. What I saw happening was the approached individual

would

>become upset/hurt because what you have done is *noticed* they are fat.

>Once that occurs rational thinking is lost until the sting wears off.

>

>How quickly so many forget. Do any of you really believe that approaching

a

>stranger is going to be something that will be received joyously with open

>arms? The best that could come from a situation like this is hurt and the

>planting of the seed for future reference.

>

>I love the smoking analogy as I can relate to both. I get very angry when

I

>am out and someone comments on how smoking is bad for me and why don't I

try

>the " patch. " Do they think I live in a vacuum? Do they question for one

>second that I don't know smoking is bad for me? Do they think I would

still

>be smoking if I was able to quit? Do they think I never have seen a

>newspaper, television or listened to a radio where I heard about the patch.

>

>Maybe you need to try and remember how the " stares " of strangers hurt. Try

>to remember when friends and loved ones [let alone strangers] told you

being

>fat was so unhealthy and you should go on a diet. There is little

>difference here with the exception that the intent was good.

>

>Just my .02, but I am able to empathize...

>

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May 7, 2000

Well, I sorta think that her response is a reflection of her current

support network... I too had planted a seed with someone I knew & she

said she was seriously thinking about going for the wls, but next time

I saw her she expressed some of the same words I hear from fat

acceptance groups.... unhealthy choice, body mutilation, etc...

someone in this frame of mind does not seem open or willing to

explore... I have come across SO MUCH negativity about the surgery, &

believe there are many people who feel so strongly that they actively

( & successfully) discourage others. These people are doctors, and

people on the net who have been taught a one-sided opinion about the

surgery. The opinions are mostly bred by fear and lack of

information... If its any help, she is probably feeling better after

having responding to you. We all know her perception was not

anything like your intention (which was only to share/spread some

happiness you have found) .. take comfort in knowing your intentions

were the best ... hope you feel better soon.

Trish