Re: Healing from the inside out

[Guest guest]

, This is the most thoughtful thing Ive read lately. I knwo what you

mean about falling of the wagon. I too have my closets too. I for one

will never speak in terms of total control. I know its a battle I will

forever fight. Just like and alcoholic has to fight their demon, We fight

ours.

Thanks

Barb

From: ShmnCROW@...

Reply-To: Graduate-OSSGegroups

To: Graduate-OSSGegroups

Subject: Re: Healing from the inside out

Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:45:32 EDT

To Vicki in California and to us all---

I don't think any of us would ever intentionally scold another here (God

forbid, we've done that to ourselves everyday of our fat lives) but Vicki's

response to sounds a bit like a lecture to me.

None of us are above falling off the wagon. I've done it. I still do it.

It's

humbling, to say the least. We didn't get fat because we're natural born

losers. We got fat because our genetic, biological and nutritional variants

caused us to travel that wide road to glory aboard the smorgasbord express.

The interplay of variables that lead to morbid obesity are not yet

understood

well, even among the obesity experts. We drew the short stick when God had

us

line up to draw straws on this one.

Don't despair. The compassion and humility we've learned as a despised

group,

are the gifts we now use to heal ourselves as well as others. Many of us are

natural healers and I don't know what the X-factor is there either. We were

compassionate fat healers prior to WLS; we're hopefully more compassion and

less fat now.

Many of us have been pleasers and servants. In some cases our families have

taken us for granted because we've trained them to. We've never required

that

our needs be met because many of us didn't know what our needs were.

Likewise, we haven't set boundaries with others because we didn't know we

could and we don't know how.

Many of us are victims of early sexual abuse which shattered our boundaries.

If we're assaulted, defiled and abused as helpless kids, we're rendered

powerless and defeated. We carry this legacy with us into fat adulthood.

Emotional hunger is real and most of us suffered from it. Some of us are

incredibly lucky in that the WLS has delivered us again into a relatively

normal sized body but the issues which allowed us to balloon into Big Hulks

are issues we'll have to face sooner or later.

If you're one of the incredibly lucky ones who have reached or nearly

reached

your goal weight and you think you've solved the mystery of your journey

into

fat hell, please speak gently and don't carry a big stick. You and I are

experiments. This is a science in it's infancy. Our future is uncertain so

swallow hard and thank the Creator everyday for your lighter walk. It is a

gift. And remember, we need one another. We need to be very kind towards

each

other. But we no longer have to take shit off of anyone. When we know this,

we can begin to heal from the inside out.

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

To Vicki in California and to us all---

I don't think any of us would ever intentionally scold another here (God

forbid, we've done that to ourselves everyday of our fat lives) but Vicki's

response to sounds a bit like a lecture to me.

None of us are above falling off the wagon. I've done it. I still do it. It's

humbling, to say the least. We didn't get fat because we're natural born

losers. We got fat because our genetic, biological and nutritional variants

caused us to travel that wide road to glory aboard the smorgasbord express.

The interplay of variables that lead to morbid obesity are not yet understood

well, even among the obesity experts. We drew the short stick when God had us

line up to draw straws on this one.

Don't despair. The compassion and humility we've learned as a despised group,

are the gifts we now use to heal ourselves as well as others. Many of us are

natural healers and I don't know what the X-factor is there either. We were

compassionate fat healers prior to WLS; we're hopefully more compassion and

less fat now.

Many of us have been pleasers and servants. In some cases our families have

taken us for granted because we've trained them to. We've never required that

our needs be met because many of us didn't know what our needs were.

Likewise, we haven't set boundaries with others because we didn't know we

could and we don't know how.

Many of us are victims of early sexual abuse which shattered our boundaries.

If we're assaulted, defiled and abused as helpless kids, we're rendered

powerless and defeated. We carry this legacy with us into fat adulthood.

Emotional hunger is real and most of us suffered from it. Some of us are

incredibly lucky in that the WLS has delivered us again into a relatively

normal sized body but the issues which allowed us to balloon into Big Hulks

are issues we'll have to face sooner or later.

If you're one of the incredibly lucky ones who have reached or nearly reached

your goal weight and you think you've solved the mystery of your journey into

fat hell, please speak gently and don't carry a big stick. You and I are

experiments. This is a science in it's infancy. Our future is uncertain so

swallow hard and thank the Creator everyday for your lighter walk. It is a

gift. And remember, we need one another. We need to be very kind towards each

other. But we no longer have to take shit off of anyone. When we know this,

we can begin to heal from the inside out.

[Guest guest]

,

I agree with you whole heartedly that all of us that have suffered

from morbid obesity have been discriminated against, looked down upon and

have suffered unbelievable pain. I am not immune! Been there done that

too! I believe that we ALL did the best we could with the resources we were

given. Then when all else fails we get a wonderful tool like WLS. So after

WLS if its not the magic bullet, we just sit back and tell each other . . .

Its OK, you drew the short straw, or its your genetics. Give me a break!

Anyhow, I thought this list is for discussing maintenance and other

issues, like stopping weight gain or the weight loss, or libido or all that

comes up once " the honeymoon " is over! We all came from the same place and

have either found success easily based on our procedure, haven't found it, or

created it! If you haven't been successful and have regained weight (like

you have? As I read your past posts) how can you criticize a person who was

in your shoes, WORKED THEIR BUTT OFF MAKING IT HAPPEN AND THEN OFFERED heart

felt ADVICE WHEN IT WAS REQUESTED?

If you want me to make the toast at a pity party forget it. The

post asked for help and suggestions. If those of you that are willing to

settle with weight loss and non-hunger eating don't like it, then count me

out.

At this time in my life, I ask myself, am I psychologically and

physically in a place where I am happy? (Absolutely!) Is where my weight

settles important to me? Not really, I have my health back and that is what

is truly important, that and I have worked my butt off (literally) getting

normal with food, hard time, all consuming head work . . . hard work learning

not to stick food in my mouth every time I flipping felt like it. IT TAKES

LOTS OF TIME AND PERSONAL EFFORT. I didn't get any freebies.

The only way I know of, not to fall back into " the habits of obesity " , is

to first discover what they were, acknowledge them, and then exchange them,

them with the behaviors of slim people. Slim people don't eat because they

are bored or sad or lonely. My focus is to enjoy being able to be

physically active and feeling healthy rather than looking for that stuffed

feeling after eating . . .

I worked hard and I've learned how to eat! I've learned how to feel

feelings rather than stuff them! I try honestly to help other that it hasn't

" just happened for " after surgery . . . It didn't just happen for me either.

What I am concentrating on is " Getting Right With Food. " As therapists or as

patients, we know that so much of the weight we carried (assuming success by

putting it in the past tense) isn't only about food . . . To keep the weight

off, we need to " Get Right With Food. "

The procedure I had (prox. RNY) does not malabsorb calories (it

malabsorbs other nutritional components). Every calorie counts, though I

don't count calories. . .I try to eat so that my body feels energetic and

healthy . . . I think more about what my body physically needs and not so

much about what my head wants . . . though I sometimes non-hunger, I fall off

the wagon I wait for physical hunger to eat again. What I am doing is

completely opposite of what I have done my entire life . . . I learned to

trust my body after surgery and it earned my respect as well! The only

" rule " I have given eating, is not to eat unless I am physically hungry. One

bite of the desired food is usually enough to satisfy . . . or I keep it for

later when I am physically hungry and can truly enjoy it! There is plenty of

every kind of food imaginable readily available to all of us!

I believe that becoming morbidly obese takes the presence of a few

factors, all of which must be present to achieve the degree of obesity that

is required to qualify us for surgery. First, is the genetic propensity to

store fat, that we cannot change that. (Some people just don't seem to store

fat regardless of what they eat or drink, and some of the malabsorptive

surgeries seems to change that about some people.) Second, is an emotional

relationship with food which we learn as children, sometimes it doesn't

manifest until adulthood. (I personally was taught to eat to prevent hunger,

to prevent children from starving in China, to feel better when I felt bad,

and as a reward for being good. Certain food was a treat for being good.)

Third, we need a degree of psychological detachment from our physical body.

(I didn't gain 100 pounds allowing myself to feel every pound . . . I avoided

cameras and mirrors and became more socially isolated.) Fourth is a slow

metabolism, the cause of which could be a physical response to chronic

dieting or it can be rooted in some other physiology.

I worked too hard to allow myself to be accused of scolding . . . If

anything I am trying to pull a person out of their own despair and show them

that what they want can happen. If you have the answers, why don't you

give hope instead of promoting accepting failure? Regardless of the causes

of our former obesity, the fact is, it is never too late to succeed at losing

the excess weight and keeping it off.

Vicki in CA

>>>>>

In a message dated 04/14/2000 7:47:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

ShmnCROW@... writes:

> To Vicki in California and to us all---

>

> I don't think any of us would ever intentionally scold another here (God

> forbid, we've done that to ourselves everyday of our fat lives) but

Vicki's

> response to sounds a bit like a lecture to me.

>

> None of us are above falling off the wagon. I've done it. I still do it.

It's humbling, to > say the least. We didn't get fat because we're natural

born losers. We got fat

> because our genetic, biological and nutritional variants caused us to

travel that

> wide road to glory aboard the smorgasbord express. The interplay of

variables

> that lead to morbid obesity are not yet understood well, even among the

obesity

> experts. We drew the short stick when God had us line up to draw straws on

this > one.

>

> Don't despair. The compassion and humility we've learned as a despised

group,

> are the gifts we now use to heal ourselves as well as others. Many of us

are

> natural healers and I don't know what the X-factor is there either. We

were

> compassionate fat healers prior to WLS; we're hopefully more compassion

and

> less fat now.

>

> Many of us have been pleasers and servants. In some cases our families

have

> taken us for granted because we've trained them to. We've never required

> that our needs be met because many of us didn't know what our needs were.

> Likewise, we haven't set boundaries with others because we didn't know we

> could and we don't know how.

>

> Many of us are victims of early sexual abuse which shattered our

boundaries.

> If we're assaulted, defiled and abused as helpless kids, we're rendered

> powerless and defeated. We carry this legacy with us into fat adulthood.

>

> Emotional hunger is real and most of us suffered from it. Some of us are

> incredibly lucky in that the WLS has delivered us again into a relatively

> normal sized body but the issues which allowed us to balloon into Big

Hulks

> are issues we'll have to face sooner or later.

>

> If you're one of the incredibly lucky ones who have reached or nearly

reached

> your goal weight and you think you've solved the mystery of your journey

> into fat hell, please speak gently and don't carry a big stick. You and I

are

> experiments. This is a science in it's infancy. Our future is uncertain so

> swallow hard and thank the Creator everyday for your lighter walk. It is a

> gift. And remember, we need one another. We need to be very kind towards

> each other. But we no longer have to take shit off of anyone. When we know

this,

> we can begin to heal from the inside out.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> From: ShmnCROW@...

> Reply-To: Graduate-OSSGegroups

> To: Graduate-OSSGegroups

> Subject: Re: Healing from the

> inside out

> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:45:32 EDT

>

> To Vicki in California and to us all---

>

> I don't think any of us would ever intentionally

> scold another here (God

> forbid, we've done that to ourselves everyday of our

> fat lives) but Vicki's

> response to sounds a bit like a lecture to me.

>

> None of us are above falling off the wagon. I've

> done it. I still do it.

> It's

> humbling, to say the least. We didn't get fat

> because we're natural born

> losers. We got fat because our genetic, biological

> and nutritional variants

> caused us to travel that wide road to glory aboard

> the smorgasbord express.

> The interplay of variables that lead to morbid

> obesity are not yet

> understood

> well, even among the obesity experts. We drew the

> short stick when God had

> us

> line up to draw straws on this one.

>

> Don't despair. The compassion and humility we've

> learned as a despised

> group,

> are the gifts we now use to heal ourselves as well

> as others. Many of us are

> natural healers and I don't know what the X-factor

> is there either. We were

> compassionate fat healers prior to WLS; we're

> hopefully more compassion and

> less fat now.

>

> Many of us have been pleasers and servants. In some

> cases our families have

> taken us for granted because we've trained them to.

> We've never required

> that

> our needs be met because many of us didn't know what

> our needs were.

> Likewise, we haven't set boundaries with others

> because we didn't know we

> could and we don't know how.

>

> Many of us are victims of early sexual abuse which

> shattered our boundaries.

> If we're assaulted, defiled and abused as helpless

> kids, we're rendered

> powerless and defeated. We carry this legacy with us

> into fat adulthood.

>

> Emotional hunger is real and most of us suffered

> from it. Some of us are

> incredibly lucky in that the WLS has delivered us

> again into a relatively

> normal sized body but the issues which allowed us to

> balloon into Big Hulks

> are issues we'll have to face sooner or later.

>

> If you're one of the incredibly lucky ones who have

> reached or nearly

> reached

> your goal weight and you think you've solved the

> mystery of your journey

> into

> fat hell, please speak gently and don't carry a big

> stick. You and I are

> experiments. This is a science in it's infancy. Our

> future is uncertain so

> swallow hard and thank the Creator everyday for your

> lighter walk. It is a

> gift. And remember, we need one another. We need to

> be very kind towards

> each

> other. But we no longer have to take shit off of

> anyone. When we know this,

> we can begin to heal from the inside out.

>

>

*******************************************************

SOOOOOOOOO well said........how better that we've come

from each personal " fat hell " and had to shovel our

way out through our WLS.

I've fallen " off the band wagon " several times,

climbed right back on and continued my journey. You

state it like a " drug addiction " , and I agree 100%.

Our drug is food and the doctors didn't do brain

surgery on us to make us forget about our " drug of

choice ~ food! We have to battle our " drug " everyday

when we go to lunch, go to the grocery, eat with

friend, eat by ourselves, etc.

I thank God everyday that this surgery was available

in this " world of science " and that I didn't have to

be any heavier than I was.

Believe me when I say that I see heavy/obese people

out in the world everyday and feel like going up and

shaking them and asking " why don't they know about the

WLS? " I pity them for the world they must live in,

but I'm SO very glad I was able to return to that

" normal " world for my health and happiness!

=====

Beth Watts

Nov. 1992 RNY Procedure

Norman s

Fort Lauderdale, FL

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear Vicky in California and all,

Take a deep breath. Please. You worked your butt off, you're proud of

yourself, you don't engage in self pity and self sabotage and you're reaping

the rewards of your hard work. We hear you.

If you think I was suggesting that it's okay for as well as myself and

others to throw a pity party, toss bon bons in our mouths and curse the

skinnies like you, then you really didn't hear me.

It's true, I weight 180 pounds. My lowest weight was 160 and I'd prefer to be

there. I've lost my way more than once. I've also had five rectal surgeries,

a gallbladder surgery, three bouts with ulcers, numerous H. Pylori infections

and the new intestinal channel has closed up three times requiring my surgeon

to open it so I can eat without vomiting each and every time. And I've

elected to unlock the chambers and vaults within that I so carefully chained

shut many years ago. I've had to lance those wounds and in that bloodletting

I'm healing from the inside out. So, Vicky, I've been doing just a little

butt kicking of my own.

I don't consider a failure so why would I encourage her to be? I hear

her pain but I don't expect she will stay there. I applaud her for her

candor, her courage and honesty as she shakes out her own demons while

setting herself free in the process.

I do understand the concept of " enabling " whereby we assist another to remain

addicted, dysfunctional and defeated. doesn't sound like she's in

denial. She doesn't sound as if she's hell bent on self destruction. She's

hurting but she seems determined to meet her demons and to exercise them.

I regret that you became so defensive that you couldn't hear what I was

trying to say. But I don't consider you any more a success that or I,

darlin. Healing the package is but the first step. Learning to set ourselves

free from the inside out can be the greatest victory.

I personally surrender to the Greater Spirit and humbly give thanks for the

miracle of me thus far and I only hope the inner beauty exceeds my pretty

package when this journey is complete.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/15/2000 4:16:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

ShmnCROW@... writes:

> If you think I was suggesting that it's okay for as well as myself

and

> others to throw a pity party, toss bon bons in our mouths and curse the

> skinnies like you, then you really didn't hear me.

>

> It's true, I weight 180 pounds. My lowest weight was 160 and I'd prefer to

> be

> there. I've lost my way more than once. I've also had five rectal

surgeries,

>

> a gallbladder surgery, three bouts with ulcers, numerous H. Pylori

> infections

> and the new intestinal channel has closed up three times requiring my

> surgeon

> to open it so I can eat without vomiting each and every time. And I've

> elected to unlock the chambers and vaults within that I so carefully

chained

>

> shut many years ago. I've had to lance those wounds and in that

bloodletting

>

> I'm healing from the inside out. So, Vicky, I've been doing just a little

> butt kicking of my own.

>

> I don't consider a failure so why would I encourage her to be? I

hear

> her pain but I don't expect she will stay there. I applaud her for her

> candor, her courage and honesty as she shakes out her own demons while

> setting herself free in the process.

>

> I do understand the concept of " enabling " whereby we assist another to

> remain

> addicted, dysfunctional and defeated. doesn't sound like she's in

> denial. She doesn't sound as if she's hell bent on self destruction.

She's

> hurting but she seems determined to meet her demons and to exercise them.

>

> I regret that you became so defensive that you couldn't hear what I was

> trying to say. But I don't consider you any more a success that or

I,

> darlin. Healing the package is but the first step. Learning to set

ourselves

>

> free from the inside out can be the greatest victory.

>

> I personally surrender to the Greater Spirit and humbly give thanks for

the

> miracle of me thus far and I only hope the inner beauty exceeds my pretty

> package when this journey is complete.

>

>

,

Those were Kind words and I am sorry I used such strong phrases to

inadaquately make my point. I have too much care and responsibility on my

plate right now and it is effecting my communication. I am letting myself

get tangled up in others struggles because I want to help so badly. Then

when they hurt I hurt too and I feel like a failure for failing to make a

difference for them . . . What's that called, transferance or

co-dependancy??? My heart breaks when anyone us of struggles . . . it really

does.

you are wise and I know you understand what I mean when I

say you have to get right with food to find out it never was about food.

What I learned was when I stopped eating for nonhunger reasons, feelings came

up because they were no longer stuffed down. I've had to sit with them and

be honest and just feel which I never allowed myself to do. Too long too

deep a story perhaps a novel. I wish I had cyber fairy dust to spread peace

and awswers to all. I'd sure like to know why I feel responsible for so

many other people besides myself??

Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

... this is such a valuable thought. Thank you for gifting me

& our list with your thoughts about this. I do believe compassion is

such an important part of healing... it conveys empathy, understanding

and provides the sturdiest foundation from which greater

accomplishments and communications can be built. You must've done

some Covey training? <s>

Trish

>

>Don't despair. The compassion and humility we've learned as a despised group,

>are the gifts we now use to heal ourselves as well as others. Many of us are

>natural healers and I don't know what the X-factor is there either. We were

>compassionate fat healers prior to WLS; we're hopefully more compassion and

>less fat now.

>

[Guest guest]

To Vickie in California and all of us...

God, you're a lovely sight, Vic. You owned your shit! Dang it girl, you're

smart and obviously on the narrow road to glory.

Sweetie, almost all of us get or got our issues all tangled and mangled in

the issues of others. We were and still are the " fix-it Fatties. " Welcome to

Fix-it Fatties 101. I'm professor Fix-it, I wrote the book.

I use to go to the Movie theater, sit in my favorite middle section. Tuck in

all my folds. Sit my popcorn, my Milk Duds, my Movie Bites and Soda

precariously here and there, hoping no one wanted the seat next to me where I

stashed my loot. Seldom did anyone want that seat cause I kinda flowed into

it, if you know what I mean.

I'd finally look up at the screen and notice everything going on in the

audience. It was hard to watch the flick. I was aware of people's coming and

goings, their munching noises, their whispers, their laughter and crying.

I remember one time when I saw a big tall man enter a row towards the front

of the seating section. I watched him. I knew where he should have sat and I

watched to see if he knew. Well, he sat down right in front of a kid! I mean,

he could have sat in various other seats but the jerk sat right in front of

this kid who couldn't move. Well, I was beside myself. I couldn't watch the

movie, I was so upset. It ate at me. I pointed it out to my girlfriend who

told me to hush and watch the movie, which pissed me off even more.

Finally, I got up after carefully arranging my goodie. I was going to tell

that jerk off. I stepped on toes while my big butt bumped against everyone as

I tried to exit my row but I didn't care this time. I was on a mission.

I waddled down the theater isle, leaned into the big jerk's row and asked him

why he didn't move so the kid in back of him could see. He didn't hear me, or

he pretended not. So, I worked my way into his row, stepping on toes as I did

until I stood over the creep. He looked up at me as I glared at him and

demanded he move so the kid in back of him could see the movie. Nevermind

that I had forgotten what the movie was. He turned around, looking over his

shoulder, and to my horror, the kid had moved and the seat was empty. Then I

heard this hissing in unison from half the people in the auditorium,

" SSSssssshh! and sit down, we can't see the movie! "

God, I waddled out of that isle really fast and headed directly to the

concession stand for a reload. How dare that kid mess up my fixing!!

Now, this is a true story, everyone. I did this. This is how I conducted my

life back then. My family now tells me stories about this fix-it fatty, how

she showered them with whatever she thought they needed and how they took my

" gifts " nervously and reluctantly, knowing my fix-iting always had a " catch. "

See, we were always trying to fix ourselves when we were meddling in everyone

else's affairs. Subconsciously our inner children were praying that someone

would fix us if we so kindly fixed them first. We learned as younggins to

fix-it for our Mama or Papa or both. We got our hugs and our rewards that way

cause it was the one thing we got very good at. So we eventually extended our

list until we were fixing it for everyone 24/7. Inside we were crying, dying

and hoping beyond hope that someone would fix us but they never did.

I could see that you were trying to " fix-it " for and I knew you didn't

mean to be unkind but what you said was unkind, nevertheless. If she was

depressed before your post, she was really depressed after you so kindly told

her what she needed to do to get well like you.

I'm a Psychotherapist in private practice in Washington and I specialize in

" fix-it " types. We're the salt of the earth, poisoning the soup. We're often

depressed. We're anxious, frustrated, angry, irritable, cranky, loving,

unbelievably empathic, and very unhappy.

I'm very proud of you Vickie. You're on your way babykins. We all are but

fixing that exterior packaging is just the beginning folks and most of us

have a lot of housecleaning to do now in order to make the inside as pretty

as the new outside.

Hugz,

[Guest guest]

You are right-sometimes you have to go to the next level in your healing too

(including spiritual and emotional healing). I'm done healing physically...I

have maintained my weight for well over a year, had all the reconstructive

plastics I'm going to have (at least for a few years!) and been working out

hard at the gym and have a decent looking and more importantly strong and

healthy body now. But I hadn't spoken to my parents in 6 years because they

were mentally abusive to me when I was a child (mostly about my weight) and

because they did not approve of my husband of 13 years (who is from another

country). I had my 40th birthday on Thursday and took a lot of kidding from

my coworkers, husband, friends and sister. But being 40 doesn't bother me

because I am healthier and look better than I looked in my 20's and 30's! My

sister called me Thursday night to wish me a happy birthday which made me so

happy because it means she has accepted our new relationship (without me

being the " big " sister anymore). She also mentioned that my parents are not

in the best of health anymore and ask about me constantly. Maybe turning 40

made me realize how short life is or maybe I just want some closure on my

relationship with them but today I picked up the phone and called my parents

and we had a nice discussion and I have some peace now in my heart that at

least I made an effort to heal our rift. They even told me they think my

weight loss surgery was a good choice and that they are happy I have achieved

health again. It was great to know that they still cared about me and thought

about me and hopefully we will slowly mend our relationship and they will get

to know their 4 grandchildren.

Little by little I am working on all of the areas of my life that need

improvement now that the physical area is resolved and the results are really

helping me cope with the immense changes I have experienced over the last few

years. They say that life is a lesson that ends when you die. I've

certainly been studying overtime!

Betty D.

Lordy lordy I don't care if I'm 40...as long as it's not my dress size! LOL!

[Guest guest]

Happy Birthday Betty.

Our rebirths have some amazing and wonderful consequences. We are now able to

approach emotional issues like parenting (being and having), employment,

marriage and relationships head on knowing we won't be 300 because of them.

We still react using food but not to the degree or with the negative result

that we did before WLS.

We've missed you at the meetings. Try to come. At our last meeting we had a

group of 1 year anniversaries speak to the group. The next meeting I think

will have new postops talk about their recent surgery and their first few

days and weeks at home.

See ya soon and in Memphis. (and thanks for the recent posts, both public and

private. They were appreciated.)

BobA

[Guest guest]

<< Happy Birthday Betty.

Our rebirths have some amazing and wonderful consequences. We are now able

to

approach emotional issues like parenting (being and having), employment,

marriage and relationships head on knowing we won't be 300 because of them.

We still react using food but not to the degree or with the negative result

that we did before WLS.

We've missed you at the meetings. Try to come. At our last meeting we had a

group of 1 year anniversaries speak to the group. The next meeting I think

will have new postops talk about their recent surgery and their first few

days and weeks at home.

See ya soon and in Memphis. (and thanks for the recent posts, both public

and

private. They were appreciated.)

BobA

**********

Thanks Bob! I will try to make it to the next meeting. I have been working

on a huge project at work and also moving my office to another location

closer to home so it is hard for me to get away early (I've been working

every night until 7-8 PM). I am looking forward to going to Memphis...should

be a great time and educational as well as relaxing. I feel guilty for being

away from my hubby and kids for 5 days...well almost-LOL! Everyone needs a

break once in a while and I am ready for one!

This year is supposed to be an important step in my life because of turning

40...but it is also important because of what I have achieved and am in the

process of achieving in terms of getting my life in order and finally

" growing up " and being a responsible adult about my life and my family. Also

I find that I want to relax more and have more fun in the process. Maybe

this is having your midlife crisis? LOL! All I know is I find myself

watching that Mitsubishi Spyder convertible car ad (the one where the " Shaft "

music track plays in the background and I picture myself sitting in a fire

engine red Spyder cruising down the road with the wind blowing through my

hair and humming " who's the baddest banker in town...Betty...can you dig it? "

Ha ha! Hmmm-who knows...maybe I'll even go out and buy one yet. You've

only got one life to live...might as well spend it in a convertible!

Betty D.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/14/00 10:47:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

ShmnCROW@... writes:

<< Some of us are

incredibly lucky in that the WLS has delivered us again into a relatively

normal sized body but the issues which allowed us to balloon into Big Hulks

are issues we'll have to face sooner or later. >>

--

You said this so well, I have been learning this lesson very hard over the

last few months. I'm still the same me, it doesn't matter that I'm now

wrapped in a new package. The problems that caused my morbid obesity didn't

go away with the anesthesia. I only hope that those scars will fade as

quickly and as easily as did the staple scars.

--El

[Guest guest]

I'm singing right along with you!... " they say this Betty is a bad

mutha - shut your mouth " <LOL> ... you should get it before the DC

convention, then we will all pile in & sing Betty's/Shaft theme

together )

Trish

>this is having your midlife crisis? LOL! All I know is I find myself

>watching that Mitsubishi Spyder convertible car ad (the one where the " Shaft "

>music track plays in the background and I picture myself sitting in a fire

>engine red Spyder cruising down the road with the wind blowing through my

>hair and humming " who's the baddest banker in town...Betty...can you dig it? "

> Ha ha! Hmmm-who knows...maybe I'll even go out and buy one yet. You've

>only got one life to live...might as well spend it in a convertible!

[Guest guest]

,

I thought that was very well put. Thanks.

Mich

Distal Gastric Bypass 1994

Start weight 425+

Current weight 250

Surgeon: S. Ross Fox, Tacoma WA

Re: Healing from the inside out

To Vicki in California and to us all---

I don't think any of us would ever intentionally scold another here (God

forbid, we've done that to ourselves everyday of our fat lives) but Vicki's

response to sounds a bit like a lecture to me.

None of us are above falling off the wagon. I've done it. I still do it.

It's

humbling, to say the least. We didn't get fat because we're natural born

losers. We got fat because our genetic, biological and nutritional variants

caused us to travel that wide road to glory aboard the smorgasbord express.

The interplay of variables that lead to morbid obesity are not yet

understood

well, even among the obesity experts. We drew the short stick when God had

us

line up to draw straws on this one.

Don't despair. The compassion and humility we've learned as a despised

group,

are the gifts we now use to heal ourselves as well as others. Many of us are

natural healers and I don't know what the X-factor is there either. We were

compassionate fat healers prior to WLS; we're hopefully more compassion and

less fat now.

Many of us have been pleasers and servants. In some cases our families have

taken us for granted because we've trained them to. We've never required

that

our needs be met because many of us didn't know what our needs were.

Likewise, we haven't set boundaries with others because we didn't know we

could and we don't know how.

Many of us are victims of early sexual abuse which shattered our boundaries.

If we're assaulted, defiled and abused as helpless kids, we're rendered

powerless and defeated. We carry this legacy with us into fat adulthood.

Emotional hunger is real and most of us suffered from it. Some of us are

incredibly lucky in that the WLS has delivered us again into a relatively

normal sized body but the issues which allowed us to balloon into Big Hulks

are issues we'll have to face sooner or later.

If you're one of the incredibly lucky ones who have reached or nearly

reached

your goal weight and you think you've solved the mystery of your journey

into

fat hell, please speak gently and don't carry a big stick. You and I are

experiments. This is a science in it's infancy. Our future is uncertain so

swallow hard and thank the Creator everyday for your lighter walk. It is a

gift. And remember, we need one another. We need to be very kind towards

each

other. But we no longer have to take shit off of anyone. When we know this,

we can begin to heal from the inside out.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get paid for the stuff you know!

Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site!

http://click./1/2200/5/_/576511/_/955766738/

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

<Snipping ever so AWESOME post of words of kindness, Fixits and her

little movie story... >

>Hugz,

>

>

All I can say it WOW !!!! I never even thought of this.. I was a

psychology major (now turned computer science.. kill me.. I know I know.. )

But.. I never realized.. but *I* do this!!! But a LOT less than I used

to.. And I didn't even realize it until your post.. WOW I'm going to really

conciously watch myself now.. I know one young lady in perticular that I

have been playing Ms. Fix-it with lately.. I don't know if it's me.. but

she asks for me to... it's very.. emotionally taxing because I come very

short tempered with her when she makes mistakes or bad judgement calls and

does silly stuff to get herself in trouble either financially or with

school.. And then me in my infinate logical wisdom tries to point out what

may be obvious to me (but not to her.. she's younger too,.. soo... ) Ughh..

OK.. *deep breath*

Thanks for that little but of psychotherapy .. send me the bill..

eheheh

XOXO

Sally

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

She also mentioned that my parents are not

>in the best of health anymore and ask about me constantly. Maybe turning

>40

>made me realize how short life is or maybe I just want some closure on my

>relationship with them but today I picked up the phone and called my

>parents

>and we had a nice discussion and I have some peace now in my heart that at

>least I made an effort to heal our rift. They even told me they think my

>weight loss surgery was a good choice and that they are happy I have

>achieved

>health again. It was great to know that they still cared about me and

>thought

>about me and hopefully we will slowly mend our relationship and they will

>get

>to know their 4 grandchildren.

>

>Little by little I am working on all of the areas of my life that need

>improvement now that the physical area is resolved and the results are

>really

>helping me cope with the immense changes I have experienced over the last

>few

>years. They say that life is a lesson that ends when you die. I've

>certainly been studying overtime!

>

>Betty D.

>Lordy lordy I don't care if I'm 40...as long as it's not my dress size!

>LOL!

(I loved that last line! hehehe_

Betty -

Thank you for your post.. it made me get a little lump in my throat! I

can tell you I don't even know you but it made me feel good that you're

working things out with your parents.. or at least 'dealing' with it to give

yourself (and most definately them I'm sure) a sense of peace I'm sure that

was well needed!

My mom died a few years ago of muscular distrophy.. and if she could see me

today... She died when I was 4 months preggers, and never had the

chance to even meet my husband... or see her grandkids.. or see me in my new

'healthy' shape now.. She struggled with beat fat as well (she beat it

her own way.. illegal drugs - but to each their own.. hehe) But I miss

her.. I love her... I love her so much more than I knew now that she isn't

here.. but she always worried about my weight.. and when I would go down in

weight she would always tell me how pretty I was.. (well she did that when I

was fat too, but you could tell she REALLY meant it when I lost weight).. I

wish she was here to tell me I was pretty

Anyhow.. Long post short.. Congrats on starting to work things out with your

parents..

XOXO

Sally in San Diego

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

,

Who is your doctor and are you still severely depressed? I'm concerned when

someone says " severely depressed. " Please get back to us/me...either here or

private. I know about depression, both personally and professionally. It'll

rob us of our self esteem, our resolve, our strength, our passion. It's very

difficult to fight the monkey on your back, weight, when you're feeling so

badly. Please know that you can turn this around and you're not alone,

Many of us are in your shoes. Many of us still remain addicted and the

surgery hasn't brought the hoped for solution to the addiction. If I dumped

I'd be elated, but I don't. I can still eat sugar...all my favorite gooey,

chunky, empty foods. I still crave them. But I'm not eating them because I've

found the answers for me and I'm starting to lose again...slowly but who

cares at this point.

Take it easy and stop beating yourself up. We can do this, you'll see.

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

Good luck with your application for the new job!

I know it is probably hard for you to exercise right now with the long

commute, but if you can work in some exercise at lunchtime. Get those

endorphins working for you now! ;^)

In Charlottesville, VA

[Guest guest]

--- Beth Watts wrote:

> I've fallen " off the band wagon " several times,

> climbed right back on and continued my journey. You

> state it like a " drug addiction " , and I agree 100%.

> Our drug is food and the doctors didn't do brain

> surgery on us to make us forget about our " drug of

> choice ~ food! We have to battle our " drug "

> everyday

> when we go to lunch, go to the grocery, eat with

> friend, eat by ourselves, etc.

Food is definitely the drug I'm addicted to. I am

envious, though, of people who come out of this

surgery and never feel hunger, or don't crave the

same foods that got them fat, or don't find pleasure

in food, or whatever takes the pleasure out of food

that got them fat in the first place. And that's not

from an operation or alteration of the brain, but the

physical alteration of the stomach. The key to an

addiction is that the thing you are addicted to brings

you pleasure. When that thing no longer brings

pleasure, it doesn't serve it's purpose anymore.

There are times when I can't eat anymore as it would

bring me more pain than pleasure. In that case, eating

would not bring me the pleasure that I would seek in

my addiction. I wish those times were more frequent.

That's what I truly thought surgery would

provide--overeating would no longer be pleasurable.

Didn't happen for me....

=====

Fairfax Sharon

RNY 4/7/98

Lost 120 pounds in 9 months

Gained back 40 pounds since

Severely depressed and struggling....

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- Haasevp@... wrote:

> Slim people

> don't eat because they

> are bored or sad or lonely.

I was talking to a non-morbidly obese person about my

overeating, and he didn't understand. I said, " Don't

you ever eat because you're sad or bored? " and he said

most emphatically NO! I couldn't believe it! I can't

imagine that not being an issue. It was like WOW, we

are from different planets....

> > personally was taught

> to eat to feel

> better when I felt bad,

ME TOO! One of my earliest memories was not not

telling the school bus driver to stop at my house on

the first day of kindergarten, so i had to get off at

a friend's house and Mom had to come get me. I

remember at 6 years old, sitting on the sofa, crying,

Mom giving me Big Wheels (Hostess' old version of Ding

Dons, chocolate covered cupcakes) and coke to make me

feel better. It worked, and it was a lesson I've never

gotten over.

> I worked too hard to allow myself to be accused

> of scolding . . . If

> anything I am trying to pull a person out of their

> own despair and show them

> that what they want can happen.

Vicki,

I didn't feel your post was scolding, if it was

directed at me. I appreciate your advice. I don't know

if it will work for me. I have the 7 Secrets book, but

it just didn't click with me at the time I read it a

few months ago. I'm just sooooo tired, I mean

physically exhausted, from this battle with food and

fat.....Oops, that sounds like I'm having a pity

party, but I don't expect a toast! Just expressing my

feelings ....

Anyway, I am trying to take steps to turn my life

around. My job is draining the life out of me. It's at

least an hour commute one way, and the job itself is

just nothing--my mind is wasting away while my ass is

NOT wasting away as I sit here doing nothing except

constantly obsessing about my weight. I've put in for

a transfer in my company to a more challenging

position that will occupy my mind with work, and I

think keeping busy will push food from my mind. It's

also only 5 minutes from home, so I hope I can force

myself to exercise with the extra hour and half I will

have in my day. I think it will be a good move in many

ways. Oh, yeah, it also pays a bit more--how could I

forget that!??! Well, I don't know yet about it---just

put in for it today, but it gives me hope that I can

turn some things around. I'll keep ya'll posted.

Thanks, Vicki, for your observations, memory-inspiring

thoughts, and support.

=====

Fairfax Sharon

RNY 4/7/98

Lost 120 pounds in 9 months

Gained back 40 pounds since

Severely depressed and struggling....

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/17/2000 2:38:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

kelly_ossg@... writes:

> Vicki,

> I didn't feel your post was scolding, if it was

> directed at me. I appreciate your advice. I don't know

> if it will work for me. I have the 7 Secrets book, but

> it just didn't click with me at the time I read it a

> few months ago. I'm just sooooo tired, I mean

> physically exhausted, from this battle with food and

> fat.....Oops, that sounds like I'm having a pity

> party, but I don't expect a toast! Just expressing my

> feelings ....

>

> Anyway, I am trying to take steps to turn my life

> around. My job is draining the life out of me. It's at

> least an hour commute one way, and the job itself is

> just nothing--my mind is wasting away while my ass is

> NOT wasting away as I sit here doing nothing except

> constantly obsessing about my weight. I've put in for

> a transfer in my company to a more challenging

> position that will occupy my mind with work, and I

> think keeping busy will push food from my mind. It's

> also only 5 minutes from home, so I hope I can force

> myself to exercise with the extra hour and half I will

> have in my day. I think it will be a good move in many

> ways. Oh, yeah, it also pays a bit more--how could I

> forget that!??! Well, I don't know yet about it---just

> put in for it today, but it gives me hope that I can

> turn some things around. I'll keep ya'll posted.

>

> Thanks, Vicki, for your observations, memory-inspiring

> thoughts, and support.

>

>

>

> =====

> Fairfax Sharon

> RNY 4/7/98

> Lost 120 pounds in 9 months

> Gained back 40 pounds since

> Severely depressed and struggling....

>

Thank God I didn't hurt your feelings or cause you anymore pain, I

would never purposely do that. One of the dangers on not stuffing feelings

is over expressing yourself , like I did! I am here for you and I will help

you in every way I can. I have been doing a good job of helping many people

find their way with food. After my prox. RNY . . . only the first 40 pounds

came off without effort on my part. The rest is due to seven secrets. You

are right that you probably just weren't ready for seven secrets yet. It is

a lot of work to learn a new relationship with food, but so worthwhile.

Heaven knows the old relationship is worth replacing! The freedom is a

miracle . . . For 25 years I was on a diet and losing or between diets and

gaining . . . nevermore.

Even with the stretched stoma, I know you can make it! I'm here for

you too or anyone else that is struggling to get to goal or stay there . . .

Its going to be OK . . .

Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

-- ShmnCROW@... wrote:

> ,

>

> Who is your doctor and are you still severely

> depressed? I'm concerned when

> someone says " severely depressed. " Please get back

> to us/me...either here or

> private. I know about depression, both personally

> and professionally. It'll

> rob us of our self esteem, our resolve, our

> strength, our passion. It's very

> difficult to fight the monkey on your back, weight,

> when you're feeling so

> badly. Please know that you can turn this around and

> you're not alone,

>

> Many of us are in your shoes. Many of us still

> remain addicted and the

> surgery hasn't brought the hoped for solution to the

> addiction. If I dumped

> I'd be elated, but I don't. I can still eat

> sugar...all my favorite gooey,

> chunky, empty foods. I still crave them. But I'm not

> eating them because I've

> found the answers for me and I'm starting to lose

> again...slowly but who

> cares at this point.

>

> Take it easy and stop beating yourself up. We can do

> this, you'll see.

>

>

,

My surgeon is Dr. Anez in Fairfax, VA. I am still

pretty depressed, but I just don't know how to get out

of it. I take Prozac, have for years. I saw therapist,

Psychiatrists, social workers, in the past, and

talking about my problems just didn't help. One psych

quack listened to my history at our first appointment,

and said, " Boy you do have reason to be depressed... "

I was just thinking, " Look just write the prescription

for my Prozac so I can get out of here... "

My depression is a vicious cycle---I am depressed

because of my weight, and because of my weight, I

don't want to see anyone, so I am lonely and

depressed. I am married, and hubby is wonderful, but I

hate pinning all my life on him---it's too much to put

on him. He can't be there all the time.

If you saw my earlier post, I am trying to get a new

job that would, among other things, afford me more

time in my day, and hopefully get me back in the gym.

I really need to get back to exercising, and I hope

that doing so will help alleviate my depression some,

getting those endorphins going and all. I really don't

think I'll ever get over it--I've suffered it all my

life, though some times worse than others. Now, and

the 6 months I fought with insurance when I was pre-op

are amongst the worst times of depression for me.

Things are looking up, though. BELIEVE ME--applying

for this job is a MAJOR action for me. I hate to make

changes, hate applying for jobs, hate new situations,

have incredible job inertia, you could say. But when I

thought of all the benefits this could afford me, and

actually found a position in my company that I could

qualify for that was challenging yet within my grasp,

close to home, more money---I immediately took action.

And this is not like me. I hope it's a good sign.

Geez, after I've gone on and on about it, I sure hope

I get it....if not I'll be quite embarrassed,and more

depressed...

Well, actually my boss said she's going to try to keep

me with more money and a change in duties, so either

way, things should get better real soon.

Thanks so much for reaching out, . It means a

lot.

Sharon

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/19/2000 7:11:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

ROZISROZ@... writes:

> Vikki, FYI, I have an 18 yr old daughter who can NOT have the surgery. I

do,

>

> however, share your insights with her regularly and hope that some day

they

> will click for her and she will achieve normalcy without relying on the

> " tool. "

> Dawn

Oh Dawn . . . I feel for her . . . there is a new complete program by

the Seven Secrets ladies, Vikki and , its called Freedom Eating Power

Plus . . . it is a complete program with a video, 8 cassetes, the SS book and

other goodies . . . I just thought the video especially, might give her a

head start.

Vicki in CA, on her way to Mexico . . .

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/19/2000 8:29:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Haasevp@... writes:

> Oh Dawn . . . I feel for her . . . there is a new complete program by

> the Seven Secrets ladies, Vikki and , its called Freedom Eating Power

> Plus . . . it is a complete program with a video, 8 cassetes, the SS book

> and

> other goodies . . . I just thought the video especially, might give her a

> head start.

> Vicki in CA, on her way to Mexico . . .

>

Sorry . . . it is available at www.QVC.com . . . Sorry about not adding that.

Vicki

[Guest guest]

It is one thing to " feel " another's pain which is the root of compassion. But

it is another issue when we take responsibility for their pain and feel a

compulsion to " fix-it. " That need to intervene and the operative word is

" need " is not healthy for us and it is not healthy for those we intervene

for.

Many fix-it fatty types (whether fat or not) can render the significant

others in their lives helpless by their constant intervention. As their load

gets bigger because they're always taking on other people's loads, they begin

to feel so weighted down that they become loose wheels under all the weight.

We cannot fix another. We have to honor their process even when that process

is excruciating to watch. It is interference to rob another of their growth

pain.