Update

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I'm so glad you're feeling better! I know that terrible hopeless feeling,

but you're moving forward and that's so great!

Keep feeling good ; )

.

[Guest guest]

Such great news Jani! I hope the fatigue goes soon too! Have you been checked

for anemia? It often comes with the illness. B vitamins from brewer's yeast

tablets helped me with fatigue. Some people take low-dose anti-depressants also

to help insure you get the stage 4 restorative sleep. If you get the sleep

rpoblem under control, it often helps with the pain as well, as the stage 4 is

the time your body does most of it's repair work. Just some things to talk over

with your doctor. Best wishes! Liz G

[Guest guest]

ok i agree with no sleep leads to pain, i'm on paxil & even i can tell the

difference,i'm still very stiff but everyday i can see the difference,still

fatigued though, Liz what type of B vitamins? i'm desperate to get to feeling

better,also what dose do u take? thanks a bunch,

Re: rheumatic UPDATE

Such great news Jani! I hope the fatigue goes soon too! Have you been

checked for anemia? It often comes with the illness. B vitamins from brewer's

yeast tablets helped me with fatigue. Some people take low-dose anti-depressants

also to help insure you get the stage 4 restorative sleep. If you get the sleep

rpoblem under control, it often helps with the pain as well, as the stage 4 is

the time your body does most of it's repair work. Just some things to talk over

with your doctor. Best wishes! Liz G

[Guest guest]

Gee Tony, I see I have a few more drugs to take to catch up to you! I, too,

take 200 mg per day, except that I skip it on the day I take metho. I've never

had a herx from mino at that dosage, so maybe you'll be lucky and not have one

either! Interesting that the echinacea helped - an immune booster, coupled with

mtx, an immune suppressant - I remember my doc warned me not to use echinacea,

but then I doubt that he knows anything about herbal meds - I'm sure he was

afraid that I was going to make my immune system go even more bonkers than it

already is. Like you I take metho 10mg as well, but have only been on for about

2 1/2 weeks - no side effects yet, although I started taking 1mg (I think your

sig line should read 2mg, not 2g) of folic acid from the get-go despite my doc

suggesting I didn't need it until I saw side effects. (Like your sig line - very

helpful ). If you get a chance, perhaps you would like to add your bio to our

" shared files " section at /files/rheumatic/Biographies/ .

Email me if you have questions about it.

Mark

http://Mark_Holmes.tripod.com

RA 4/98 AP 7/98

Minocycline (Lederle generic) 100mg 2x/day MWF;Methotrexate (10mg/once weekly);

folic acid (1 mg/day); Lodine 400mg 3x/day;Zone Diet; Zone Diet Fish Oil(9

caps/day);acidopholus;Milk Thistle;MSM (2G/day);saw palmetto;2G of

Vit.C;1200/600mg - Calcium/Magnesium;multi-vitamin;Vit E - 800 units

RA Chat - http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Holmes/RA/ra.html

ICQ 18123139

rheumatic Update

Hi all...

It has been awhile since I've posted. Saw my RD today and he agreed to try

adding minocycline so I am now partially on the AP....What he really wanted to

do was to add another 5mg of MTX per week but I told him I would rather try

Minocycline first....I DO have to remain on the myriad of other drugs I am on

but at least I now have a fighting chance...maybe Mino will work for me.

My RD wants me to take it daily rather than three times a week so I will be

taking 200mg per day. From what I've read on this list I guess I will have to

gird up my loins in preparation for some major herx's (I understand they are a

bit worse if you take the mino daily)...

MTX was causing me quite a bit of distress for awhile, I was feeling

perpetually ill. My RD added Folic Acid to my list about three weeks ago and he

said that should fix it...it helped just a bit. I started taking Echinacea

about two weeks ago and seem to feel much better now, so that might be worth a

try if anyone else suffers the same symptoms as I did.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blessings and Health

Tony (Diagnosed Sero-Neg. RA April 1999)

Meds (Dr Prescribed): Methotrexate 10MG per week; Folic Acid 2MG per day;

Prednisone 10mg daily; Sulfasalazine 4G daily; Plaquinil 400mg daily;

Minocycline 200mg daily; Prilosec 20-40mg daily

Alternative Meds/Herbs: Flax Seed Oil (Omega 3, 6, 9) 6g daily; MSM 2g daily;

Pantothenic Acid (B5) 2g daily; Echinacea 300mg daily; Ginseng 840mg daily;

Chitosan 2g Daily

[Guest guest]

Tony

Congrats on getting the mino and I hope all things go well for you.

Some people luck out and don't have a herx, but you're right, taking it

every day may up your chances. If you have trouble, just write for some

help. Don't forget to also take a good probiotic to put back some of

the good bacteria that the mino will kill -- your stomach will thank

you. :}

a Peden

> Tony Milligan wrote:

>

> Hi all...

> It has been awhile since I've posted. Saw my RD today and he

> agreed to try adding minocycline so I am now partially on the

> AP....What he really wanted to do was to add another 5mg of MTX per

> week but I told him I would rather try Minocycline first....I DO have

> to remain on the myriad of other drugs I am on but at least I now have

> a fighting chance...maybe Mino will work for me.

> My RD wants me to take it daily rather than three times a week so I

> will be taking 200mg per day. From what I've read on this list I

> guess I will have to gird up my loins in preparation for some major

> herx's (I understand they are a bit worse if you take the mino

> daily)...

> MTX was causing me quite a bit of distress for awhile, I was

> feeling perpetually ill. My RD added Folic Acid to my list about

> three weeks ago and he said that should fix it...it helped just a

> bit. I started taking Echinacea about two weeks ago and seem to feel

> much better now, so that might be worth a try if anyone else suffers

> the same symptoms as I did.

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> Blessings and Health

> Tony (Diagnosed Sero-Neg. RA April 1999)

>

>

[Guest guest]

[This message contained attachments]

[Guest guest]

Tony,

RE: echinichea (spelling?).....people with immune disorders such as RA who

already have overactive immune systems are supposed to avoid or be very

cautious with this herb. That's jjust what i " ve been told by pharmacists

AND READ OTHER PLACES. worth checking out. Sorrry this is a mess. My computer

seems to be deciding when to capitalize all my itself.

[Guest guest]

That's if you subscribe to the autoimmune theory of these diseases. Then drugs

are given to suppress the 'overactive' immune system.

Our doctors believe these diseases are triggered by an infection. So the

antibiotics are used to slowly reduce the infection and meanwhile we boost the

immune system as much as possible. Echinacea, golden seal and other herbs are

excellent for this purpose. Echinacea is usually used in a pulse dose, two weeks

on and two weeks off or similar.

Chris.

RE: echinichea (spelling?).....people with immune disorders such as RA who

already have overactive immune systems are supposed to avoid or be very

cautious with this herb. That's jjust what i " ve been told by pharmacists

AND READ OTHER PLACES. worth checking out. Sorrry this is a mess. My computer

seems to be deciding when to capitalize all my itself.

[Guest guest]

That's interesting...I'll start " pulsing " the Echinacea/golden seal...I

believe I've received benefits from them...pulsing seems to make sense to

me.

_____

Blessings and Health

Tony (Diagnosed Sero-Neg. RA April 1999)

 

Meds (Dr Prescribed): Methotrexate 10MG per week; Folic Acid 2MG per

day; Prednisone 10mg daily; Sulfasalazine 4G daily; Plaquinil 400mg

daily; Minocycline 200mg daily (since Oct 5, 1999); Prilosec 20-40mg daily

 

Alternative Meds/Herbs: Flax Seed Oil (Omega 3, 6, 9) 6g daily; MSM 2g

daily; Pantothenic Acid (B5) 2g daily; Echinacea 300mg daily; Ginseng

840mg daily; Chitosan 2g Daily

 

> rheumatic Re: Update

>

>

> From: cadlard@...

>

>

>

> That's if you subscribe to the autoimmune theory of these

> diseases. Then drugs

> are given to suppress the 'overactive' immune system.

>

> Our doctors believe these diseases are triggered by an infection. So the

> antibiotics are used to slowly reduce the infection and meanwhile

> we boost the

> immune system as much as possible. Echinacea, golden seal and

> other herbs are

> excellent for this purpose. Echinacea is usually used in a pulse

> dose, two weeks

> on and two weeks off or similar.

>

> Chris.

>

>

>

>

> RE: echinichea (spelling?).....people with immune disorders such as RA who

> already have overactive immune systems are supposed to avoid or be very

> cautious with this herb. That's jjust what i " ve been told by pharmacists

> AND READ OTHER PLACES. worth checking out. Sorrry this is a mess.

> My computer

> seems to be deciding when to capitalize all my itself.

>

>

> >

[Guest guest]

I am also being treated for an underlying infection, but.....

Two doctors who are specialists in immunology and also treat CFS with

antibiotics say that the immune system is not so simple. Enchinacia is not

recommended for those of us with CFS because the immune system is already

reved up but still not effective. I guess it would be like gunning the

motor of a car in park. You are still not going to get anywhere and you

could make your pain a lot worse or even burn up your immune system. You

see, the antibiotics do not alter the immune system, they help to kill the

bug or stop it from reproducing. Then as you lower the level of infection

the immune system starts to heal on its own. The immune system is damaged,

it is not just fighting infection, so I hope I have added some ideas to this

debate. Anyway, I know that CFS patients are not to take echinacea, and I

have heard this from every CFS expert I know. Seem like this would relate

to mycoplasma positive RA cases, etc.

a C.

> From: cadlard@...

>

>

>

> That's if you subscribe to the autoimmune theory of these diseases. Then

drugs

> are given to suppress the 'overactive' immune system.

>

> Our doctors believe these diseases are triggered by an infection. So the

> antibiotics are used to slowly reduce the infection and meanwhile we boost

the

> immune system as much as possible. Echinacea, golden seal and other herbs

are

> excellent for this purpose. Echinacea is usually used in a pulse dose, two

weeks

> on and two weeks off or similar.

>

> Chris.

>

>

>

>

> RE: echinichea (spelling?).....people with immune disorders such as RA who

> already have overactive immune systems are supposed to avoid or be very

> cautious with this herb. That's jjust what i " ve been told by pharmacists

> AND READ OTHER PLACES. worth checking out. Sorrry this is a mess. My

computer

> seems to be deciding when to capitalize all my itself.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have read a lot of conflicting information on the subject of echinacea

use with RA. Many herbal texts recommend it's use in RA for balancing of

the immune system, others say it's use is controversial, and to be avoided.

One text I read said studies in Germany indicated that it inhibits

hyalurinase, the enzyme which breaks down hyaluronic acid (a joint

lubricant).

Personally, I felt that I had some positive results from using it for RA

in pulsed fashion as described, around the time I began the antibiotic

treatment, but I have not continued to use it, preferring to err on the side

of caution. Liz G

[Guest guest]

Liz,

I'm afraid I'm being cautious and erring with you, too. :}

I swear by echinacea, together with golden seal, for fighting off colds

and flu. I have a bottle of the liquid that cost a fortune but is worth

it because I swear if you take it at the first sign of a cold, it either

goes away or only lasts in a mild form for a couple of days. However,

since getting RA, I'm afraid to take it because my mom (who has RA) did

once with a cold and she ended up having a terrible flare. If it works

for others, terrific but color me chicken for now.

Hugs,

a Peden

" Liz G. " wrote:

>

> From: " Liz G. " <pioneer@...>

>

> I have read a lot of conflicting information on the subject of echinacea

> use with RA. Many herbal texts recommend it's use in RA for balancing of

> the immune system, others say it's use is controversial, and to be avoided.

> One text I read said studies in Germany indicated that it inhibits

> hyalurinase, the enzyme which breaks down hyaluronic acid (a joint

> lubricant).

> Personally, I felt that I had some positive results from using it for RA

> in pulsed fashion as described, around the time I began the antibiotic

> treatment, but I have not continued to use it, preferring to err on the side

> of caution. Liz G

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

What antibiotic are you on and what is the dose and schedule? How

would one get antibodies tested, and what is the importance of this?

What can be done about it if they are found?

What is photopheresis, and how does it help?

I am sorry to ask so many questions but I am trying to understand.

thanks,

Gloria

________________________________________________________________

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Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:

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[Guest guest]

,

I am glad you are progressing and the doctor says that you look good.

I am also praying for you to get a good night's sleep.(before 6 or 8 A.M.)

God bless,

Carol

[Guest guest]

Hi Lin...read with interest your update. I think it's important for us all to

stay informed with others progress, both for comparison and also general

knowledge, since this entire " program of AP " is not exactly set in cement.

I noticed your mentioned Dr. Brownstein and his feeling that (natural)

hormone replacement is beneficial. He is the doctor I switched to when I

could not tolerate my rheumy anymore, and I've seen him three times, like him

very much, and the most vital thing is that we " speak the same language " . And

yes, he promotes natural hormones (mind was also low), but doesn't insist on

anything. That's what I like about him.....he told me that " it was my car and

I controlled where I wanted it to go " .

Was he speaking in Michigan where he practices?

Thanks for your update.

Judy (Keels)

[Guest guest]

-

I'm so glad to hear that your son is doing better. My brain is on super fog

due to all the stress - you had some testing done for him by mail order, am

I correct, for leaky gut syndrome... am I correct in my foggy memory? At any

rate, this is terrific! I will pray that he will continue in his progress.

I feel like I'm close to going over the edge, and I'm not joking either. As

if my mom's death and her sister's, wasn't enough, as I've been tellling

you, these boys of mine are in rebellion overtime. We had a major explosion

last nite... apparently Joe (who they resent terribly) and I are these demon

like creatures from hell, totally unreasonable... this came after I got mad

cuz my son's house guest - his friend WHO lied about his age & is actually

16 & on the run from DYS.... brought his girlfriend back FOR THE NITE. This

is the one with the baby, not the & *^%$ & * one who he snuck off with last

weekend.... found drug stuff in the house couple of days ago.... NO ONE

knows who it belongs to ...

BUT I'm the unreasonable one!

Having trouble getting to Hotmail, don't know if it's because of the

cancelation soon of Lycos free internet services... I might be awhile til I

can get on line.

Hey, Thank God for all you guys on this egroup.

Take care-

Lyn

========================

>Hi everyone,

>

>Just wanted to update because my son is starting to get better. He

>was diagnosed with possible AS or " some type of spondyuloarthritis, "

>sero negative, HLA-B27 positive. His improvement has been fantastic

>during the past couple of weeks. He's not using his crutches anymore,

>and the pain has decreased to where he's ready to stop taking pain

>medication. The swelling and inflammation have also gone down

>proportionately to the decrease in pain. He's been weaning himself off

>of NSAIDs slowly from the time he first noticed some pain relief from

>the AP and now he's about to take the final step. It makes me feel

>all warm inside everytime I see him walk without crutches. He still

>has a limp, but he's really getting around instead of hobbling like 90

>year-old man. My son is 21.

>

>Thanks to everyone for their support in getting this far. Your help

>and encouragement have been wonderful.

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Lyn! Geoff Crenshaw here.

> Message: 8

> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:27:23 -0500

> From: " Lyn B " <paniangelica@...>

> Subject: Re: Update

(snip)

> I feel like I'm close to going over the edge, and I'm not joking

either. As

> if my mom's death and her sister's, wasn't enough, as I've been

tellling

> you, these boys of mine are in rebellion overtime. We had a major

explosion

> last nite... apparently Joe (who they resent terribly) and I are these

demon

Sounds like time for one of those 'family' prescriptions. How old are

your kids anyway?

Look - this may sound like tripe to many and if so, just toss it -- but

if you can pull this off it does work:

Calm setting (hard to get)

Calm dad or step-dad (hard to get)

Calm kids (harder to get)

Calm mom (really hard to get)

All at one place - no yelling allowed. 'Dad' speaks, mom watches " dad "

intently, SILENTLY and nods agreeingly. (Yes - it IS a show.)

" MOM " remains silent throughout - fixed upon " Dad. " This is His show.

Mom does NOT talk and never, never ever displays ANY sign of

disagreement.

Dad says in essence: " Look - I understand you have hard feelings

about

many things. But the fact is, I can't do anything to fix them RIGHT

NOW. Your mom has these feelings too, but I CAN help her and she CAN

help

me with mine and we can learn from each other - just like we DO

learn

from you and you CAN learn from us.

" So here's the deal. We're trying hard to form a family here out of

what we ALL have -- not what we'd " like " to have. In order to have a

family we have to set down some rules and they have to be followed.

Failure to follow the rules in this family will result in penalties,

just like failure to follow the rules outside the family does, like

speeding begets a ticket, and the ticket begets a fine.

" Now you boys have decided to go your own way in many things. I am

telling you right now that if you want to continue that -- you may.

BUT -- you may NOT live here if you do.

" Your mother and I - yes " I " - are responsible for your well being

only in as much as you will allow us to be. You have been given

free-will by your creator, whether you believe it or not, and

whether we like it or not. I consult with your mother and she with

me and after that " I " set down the rules and it is the job of EVERY

person in this house to follow them.

" We want you to stay here, to live here, and to be a family once

again.

We do NOT want you to leave -- but there are rules and IF YOU want

to

live here, then YOU MUST AGREE to live within these rules. If you

find that you cannot live within these rules, then you have declared

yourselves wholly independent and you will have to make your own

way in life, which includes living someplace else WITHOUT our help.

" You are welcome in this house as long as you want to be here and

abide

in these rules. But if you can't handle that and must make your own

rules of life, then you must do so as men -- not BOYS. You must

go out into the world and make your own way without our help and

without our protection.

" If you feel these rules are too tough and need to be modified,

but you still want to be here then you agree to do two things:

First, you will WILLINGLY abide by rules you do not like;

Second, you may appeal to us to change the rules to recognize

your burgeoning yet fragile maturity -- but even so you will

abide by our decision EVEN IF IT DOES NOT GO YOUR WAY. After

all, this isn't about trying to be " spoiled, " it's about growing

up to be MEN, responsible, mature, brave MEN. Not cowardly,

sniffling, irresponsible 30 year old children.

" Now I tell you, both your mother and I have been " out there. " We

know how hard it is and our experience in life has taught us that,

in our judgment and ours alone, we do not feel you are ready to do

this. We do NOT want you to leave. We DO WANT YOU TO STAY. But the

decision is yours and we will respect it. If you choose to stay we

will do everything we can to help you and to protect you. The world

is an ugly, harsh and unloving teacher. We may not be beautiful,

but we are not harsh and we love you very, very deeply.

" I am not saying it will not hurt if you leave -- it will. It will

break your mother's heart, and mine - and maybe even yours. But

these

are the facts of life. You live here, you live under our protection;

and for us to protect you requires that we have rules and that you

obey them.

" The choice is yours. What's it going to be? Are you going to live

here or move? " " " " " " "

Now silence - first one to talk looses.

Crying by Mom is allowed -- objecting is not, speaking is not.

: Mom MUST be onboard, willingly - not being dragged along.

: MOM MUST ACKNOWLEDGE AND ACCEPT DAD'S AUTHORITY AND SUPPORT IT.

: MOM MUST NOT LET DAD ABDICATE! (This is very, very hard)

And the rules MUST be enforced. But NEVER do the " rules " include

dismissal from the home or family as punishment. " Dismissal " is reserved

as an acknowledgment of fact that the child in question has already

elected to leave either in point of fact or by his action of total

disregard for ALL parental authority.

If they leave - you must be prepared to make it legal, i.e.,

Emancipation Declarations, to protect what is left behind. And if one

leaves and the other stays, your task will be doubly difficult to still

treat that one the same as you would otherwise - neither neglecting

them, nor fawning over them.

Life is not easy, and the life of Grace is not for the cowardly nor the

weak of heart. His grace is sufficient and His strength will fill you IF

you let it.

....in God's grace

Regards, -----------------------

Geoff ** Usual Disclaimers **

-----------------------

How can you have hope?

Get under the blood of the Passover Lamb.

EXO 12:7-3 / MAR 14:24 / REV 12:11

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[Guest guest]

As usual, well said. And my heart has indeed been broken.....and mended,

over time..... And given the decision to leave, life, indeed, is a harsh

teacher, and they do eventually grow up. thank God. Lyn, my prayers and

thoughts continue to be with you. Do NOT go over the edge. You will be no

help to anyone, particularly yourself, if you do not stay focused. Love,

Geoff wrote:

> Hi Lyn! Geoff Crenshaw here.

>

> > Message: 8

> > Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:27:23 -0500

> > From: " Lyn B " <paniangelica@...>

> > Subject: Re: Update

> (snip)

> > I feel like I'm close to going over the edge, and I'm not joking

> either. As

> > if my mom's death and her sister's, wasn't enough, as I've been

> tellling

> > you, these boys of mine are in rebellion overtime. We had a major

> explosion

> > last nite... apparently Joe (who they resent terribly) and I are these

> demon

>

> Sounds like time for one of those 'family' prescriptions. How old are

> your kids anyway?

>

> Look - this may sound like tripe to many and if so, just toss it -- but

> if you can pull this off it does work:

>

> Calm setting (hard to get)

> Calm dad or step-dad (hard to get)

> Calm kids (harder to get)

> Calm mom (really hard to get)

>

> All at one place - no yelling allowed. 'Dad' speaks, mom watches " dad "

> intently, SILENTLY and nods agreeingly. (Yes - it IS a show.)

>

> " MOM " remains silent throughout - fixed upon " Dad. " This is His show.

>

> Mom does NOT talk and never, never ever displays ANY sign of

> disagreement.

>

> Dad says in essence: " Look - I understand you have hard feelings

> about

> many things. But the fact is, I can't do anything to fix them RIGHT

> NOW. Your mom has these feelings too, but I CAN help her and she CAN

> help

> me with mine and we can learn from each other - just like we DO

> learn

> from you and you CAN learn from us.

>

> " So here's the deal. We're trying hard to form a family here out of

> what we ALL have -- not what we'd " like " to have. In order to have a

> family we have to set down some rules and they have to be followed.

> Failure to follow the rules in this family will result in penalties,

> just like failure to follow the rules outside the family does, like

> speeding begets a ticket, and the ticket begets a fine.

>

> " Now you boys have decided to go your own way in many things. I am

> telling you right now that if you want to continue that -- you may.

> BUT -- you may NOT live here if you do.

>

> " Your mother and I - yes " I " - are responsible for your well being

> only in as much as you will allow us to be. You have been given

> free-will by your creator, whether you believe it or not, and

> whether we like it or not. I consult with your mother and she with

> me and after that " I " set down the rules and it is the job of EVERY

> person in this house to follow them.

>

> " We want you to stay here, to live here, and to be a family once

> again.

> We do NOT want you to leave -- but there are rules and IF YOU want

> to

> live here, then YOU MUST AGREE to live within these rules. If you

> find that you cannot live within these rules, then you have declared

> yourselves wholly independent and you will have to make your own

> way in life, which includes living someplace else WITHOUT our help.

>

> " You are welcome in this house as long as you want to be here and

> abide

> in these rules. But if you can't handle that and must make your own

> rules of life, then you must do so as men -- not BOYS. You must

> go out into the world and make your own way without our help and

> without our protection.

>

> " If you feel these rules are too tough and need to be modified,

> but you still want to be here then you agree to do two things:

>

> First, you will WILLINGLY abide by rules you do not like;

>

> Second, you may appeal to us to change the rules to recognize

> your burgeoning yet fragile maturity -- but even so you will

> abide by our decision EVEN IF IT DOES NOT GO YOUR WAY. After

> all, this isn't about trying to be " spoiled, " it's about growing

> up to be MEN, responsible, mature, brave MEN. Not cowardly,

> sniffling, irresponsible 30 year old children.

>

> " Now I tell you, both your mother and I have been " out there. " We

> know how hard it is and our experience in life has taught us that,

> in our judgment and ours alone, we do not feel you are ready to do

> this. We do NOT want you to leave. We DO WANT YOU TO STAY. But the

> decision is yours and we will respect it. If you choose to stay we

> will do everything we can to help you and to protect you. The world

> is an ugly, harsh and unloving teacher. We may not be beautiful,

> but we are not harsh and we love you very, very deeply.

>

> " I am not saying it will not hurt if you leave -- it will. It will

> break your mother's heart, and mine - and maybe even yours. But

> these

> are the facts of life. You live here, you live under our protection;

> and for us to protect you requires that we have rules and that you

> obey them.

>

> " The choice is yours. What's it going to be? Are you going to live

> here or move? " " " " " " "

>

> Now silence - first one to talk looses.

>

> Crying by Mom is allowed -- objecting is not, speaking is not.

> : Mom MUST be onboard, willingly - not being dragged along.

> : MOM MUST ACKNOWLEDGE AND ACCEPT DAD'S AUTHORITY AND SUPPORT IT.

> : MOM MUST NOT LET DAD ABDICATE! (This is very, very hard)

>

> And the rules MUST be enforced. But NEVER do the " rules " include

> dismissal from the home or family as punishment. " Dismissal " is reserved

> as an acknowledgment of fact that the child in question has already

> elected to leave either in point of fact or by his action of total

> disregard for ALL parental authority.

>

> If they leave - you must be prepared to make it legal, i.e.,

> Emancipation Declarations, to protect what is left behind. And if one

> leaves and the other stays, your task will be doubly difficult to still

> treat that one the same as you would otherwise - neither neglecting

> them, nor fawning over them.

>

> Life is not easy, and the life of Grace is not for the cowardly nor the

> weak of heart. His grace is sufficient and His strength will fill you IF

> you let it.

>

> ...in God's grace

>

> Regards, -----------------------

> Geoff ** Usual Disclaimers **

> -----------------------

> How can you have hope?

> Get under the blood of the Passover Lamb.

> EXO 12:7-3 / MAR 14:24 / REV 12:11

>

> http://www.healingyou.org nonprofit Herbals, Homeopathics & Supplements

>

> http://www.800-800-cruise.com/index-aff.html Make money from travel!

> http://www.800-800-cruise.com 100,000+ travel deals in real-time

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

[Guest guest]

Lyn,

I think I ought to share this one with the rest of the group.

I know you enjoyed it.

Whenever your kids are out of control, you can take comfort from the

thought

that even God's omnipotence did not extend to God's kids. After

creating

heaven and earth, God created Adam and Eve. And the first thing

he said

was:

"Don't."

"Don't what?" Adam replied.

"Don't eat the forbidden fruit." God said.

"Forbidden fruit?"

"We got forbidden fruit?"

"Hey, Eve...we got forbidden fruit!"

"No way!"

"Yes, way!"

"Don't eat that fruit!" said God.

"Why?"

"Because I am your Father and I said so!" said God, wondering

why he

hadn't stopped after making the elephants. A few minutes later

God saw his kids

having an apple break and He was angry.

"Didn't I tell you not to eat the fruit?" the First Parent asked.

"Uh huh, " Adam replied.

"Then why did you?"

"I dunno" Eve answered.

"She started it!" Adam said.

"Did not!"

"Did too!"

"DID NOT!"

Having had it with the two of them, God's punishment was that

Adam and

Eve should have children of their own. Thus, the pattern was

set and it has

never changed.

But there is reassurance in this story. If you have persistently

and lovingly tried to give them wisdom and they haven't taken it, don't

be hard on yourself. If God had trouble handling children, what makes you

think it would be a piece of cake for you?

Advice for the day: If you have a lot of tension and you get

a headache,

do what it says on the aspirin bottle:

Take two and keep away from children.

Regards all,

Fain wrote:

As usual, well said. And my heart has indeed

been broken.....and mended,

over time..... And given the decision to leave, life, indeed, is

a harsh

teacher, and they do eventually grow up. thank God.

Lyn, my prayers and

thoughts continue to be with you. Do NOT go over the edge.

You will be no

help to anyone, particularly yourself, if you do not stay focused.

Love,

Geoff wrote:

> Hi Lyn! Geoff Crenshaw here.

>

> > Message: 8

> > Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:27:23 -0500

> > From: "Lyn B" <paniangelica@...>

> > Subject: Re: Update

> (snip)

> > I feel like I'm close to going over the edge, and I'm not joking

> either. As

> > if my mom's death and her sister's, wasn't enough, as I've

been

> tellling

> > you, these boys of mine are in rebellion overtime. We had a

major

> explosion

> > last nite... apparently Joe (who they resent terribly) and

I are these

> demon

>

> Sounds like time for one of those 'family' prescriptions. How

old are

> your kids anyway?

>

> Look - this may sound like tripe to many and if so, just toss

it -- but

> if you can pull this off it does work:

>

> Calm setting (hard to get)

> Calm dad or step-dad (hard to get)

> Calm kids (harder to get)

> Calm mom (really hard to get)

>

> All at one place - no yelling allowed. 'Dad' speaks, mom watches

"dad"

> intently, SILENTLY and nods agreeingly. (Yes - it IS a show.)

>

> "MOM" remains silent throughout - fixed upon "Dad." This is His

show.

>

> Mom does NOT talk and never, never ever displays ANY sign of

> disagreement.

>

> Dad says in essence: "Look - I understand

you have hard feelings

> about

> many things. But the fact is, I can't

do anything to fix them RIGHT

> NOW. Your mom has these feelings too,

but I CAN help her and she CAN

> help

> me with mine and we can learn from each

other - just like we DO

> learn

> from you and you CAN learn from us.

>

> "So here's the deal. We're trying hard

to form a family here out of

> what we ALL have -- not what we'd "like"

to have. In order to have a

> family we have to set down some rules

and they have to be followed.

> Failure to follow the rules in this family

will result in penalties,

> just like failure to follow the rules

outside the family does, like

> speeding begets a ticket, and the ticket

begets a fine.

>

> "Now you boys have decided to go your

own way in many things. I am

> telling you right now that if you want

to continue that -- you may.

> BUT -- you may NOT live here if you do.

>

> "Your mother and I - yes "I" - are responsible

for your well being

> only in as much as you will allow us

to be. You have been given

> free-will by your creator, whether you

believe it or not, and

> whether we like it or not. I consult

with your mother and she with

> me and after that "I" set down the rules

and it is the job of EVERY

> person in this house to follow them.

>

> "We want you to stay here, to live here,

and to be a family once

> again.

> We do NOT want you to leave -- but there

are rules and IF YOU want

> to

> live here, then YOU MUST AGREE to live

within these rules. If you

> find that you cannot live within these

rules, then you have declared

> yourselves wholly independent and you

will have to make your own

> way in life, which includes living someplace

else WITHOUT our help.

>

> "You are welcome in this house as long

as you want to be here and

> abide

> in these rules. But if you can't handle

that and must make your own

> rules of life, then you must do so as

men -- not BOYS. You must

> go out into the world and make your own

way without our help and

> without our protection.

>

> "If you feel these rules are too tough

and need to be modified,

> but you still want to be here then you

agree to do two things:

>

> First, you will

WILLINGLY abide by rules you do not like;

>

> Second, you may

appeal to us to change the rules to recognize

> your burgeoning

yet fragile maturity -- but even so you will

> abide by our

decision EVEN IF IT DOES NOT GO YOUR WAY. After

> all, this isn't

about trying to be "spoiled," it's about growing

> up to be MEN,

responsible, mature, brave MEN. Not cowardly,

> sniffling, irresponsible

30 year old children.

>

> "Now I tell you, both your mother and

I have been "out there." We

> know how hard it is and our experience

in life has taught us that,

> in our judgment and ours alone, we do

not feel you are ready to do

> this. We do NOT want you to leave. We

DO WANT YOU TO STAY. But the

> decision is yours and we will respect

it. If you choose to stay we

> will do everything we can to help you

and to protect you. The world

> is an ugly, harsh and unloving teacher.

We may not be beautiful,

> but we are not harsh and we love you

very, very deeply.

>

> "I am not saying it will not hurt if

you leave -- it will. It will

> break your mother's heart, and mine -

and maybe even yours. But

> these

> are the facts of life. You live here,

you live under our protection;

> and for us to protect you requires that

we have rules and that you

> obey them.

>

> "The choice is yours. What's it going

to be? Are you going to live

> here or move?"""""""

>

> Now silence - first one to talk looses.

>

> Crying by Mom is allowed -- objecting is not, speaking is not.

> : Mom MUST be onboard, willingly - not

being dragged along.

> : MOM MUST ACKNOWLEDGE AND ACCEPT DAD'S

AUTHORITY AND SUPPORT IT.

> : MOM MUST NOT LET DAD ABDICATE! (This

is very, very hard)

>

> And the rules MUST be enforced. But NEVER do the "rules" include

> dismissal from the home or family as punishment. "Dismissal"

is reserved

> as an acknowledgment of fact that the child in question has already

> elected to leave either in point of fact or by his action of

total

> disregard for ALL parental authority.

>

> If they leave - you must be prepared to make it legal, i.e.,

> Emancipation Declarations, to protect what is left behind. And

if one

> leaves and the other stays, your task will be doubly difficult

to still

> treat that one the same as you would otherwise - neither neglecting

> them, nor fawning over them.

>

> Life is not easy, and the life of Grace is not for the cowardly

nor the

> weak of heart. His grace is sufficient and His strength will

fill you IF

> you let it.

>

> ...in God's grace

>

> Regards,

-----------------------

> Geoff

** Usual Disclaimers **

>

-----------------------

> How can you have hope?

> Get under the blood of the Passover Lamb.

> EXO 12:7-3 / MAR 14:24

/ REV 12:11

>

> http://www.healingyou.org

nonprofit Herbals, Homeopathics & Supplements

>

> http://www.800-800-cruise.com/index-aff.html

Make money from travel!

> http://www.800-800-cruise.com

100,000+ travel deals in real-time

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

So good to see you are doing well. I truly believe getting our allergies

looked after and controlling the fungus and yeast helps us. There are so

many of us with stuffed up sinuses also.

If you get a chance go to Florida. That's where I'm heading too when I'm

well enough to travel that far.

Congratulations on your progress.

Hugs

Bev

<< Things are going really well, the best I have in the past four years. I

have

been doing some desensitization for my allergies and it is going well. I

found it has helped with the rest of my condition. They say it can help

those with arthritic diseases and in my case, it did. I haven't done any

intravenous Clindamycin since late November since I had my desensitization.

I did cheat abit during the holidays and paid for it on New years day. I

din't eat for two days to let everything settle down and after four days I

was back to where I was.

I do take 2 vitamin water from Glaceau every day. It has added to my

recovery. I will be doing a Clindamycin week cycle on the 14th since I am

doing another allergy desensitization on the 24th. Hopefully, I will help me

as the first did. >>

Hello everyone,

I thought I would give an update since it has been awhile I have posted in

the group.

Things are going really well, the best I have in the past four years. I have

been doing some desensitization for my allergies and it is going well. I

found it has helped with the rest of my condition. They say it can help

those with arthritic diseases and in my case, it did. I haven't done any

intravenous Clindamycin since late November since I had my desensitization.

I did cheat abit during the holidays and paid for it on New years day. I

din't eat for two days to let everything settle down and after four days I

was back to where I was.

I do take 2 vitamin water from Glaceau every day. It has added to my

recovery. I will be doing a Clindamycin week cycle on the 14th since I am

doing another allergy desensitization on the 24th. Hopefully, I will help me

as the first did.

Lastly, I feel well enough to go on vacation with my little family. I am

leaving on the 6th of February for two and a half weeks. I am going to visit

my parents and brother in Florida. I wanted especially to see my parents

(they left the 14th of october) since they are leaving to go on a cruise

around the world. I won't be able see them until May.I would LOVE to go with

them!

They are going to so many places I would love to see and of course I would

have been able to so many of you who live in Australia and New Zealand.

Guess, I will have to wait until a some grey hairs start growing in.LOL

I hope everyone has passed wonderful holidays and wish that everyone have

amazing health to come in the New Year.

Love and hugs,

To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

[Guest guest]

Sherry -

I'm glad to hear that you are getting better medical care. I know just how

awful it is to be treated badly (I'm in the middle of a battle with my dr.,

trying to get a correct diagnosis, and hopefully get started on the AP).

I remembered all the funerals you had been attending. I know your hubby is a

minister, but please watch what the extra stress might do to you. You may

think you HAVE to attend all the funerals, but if you end up totally

incapasitated because of doing more than you are (physically) capable of

doing, what will happen? Ask yourself, who will go then, and most of all,

how will your own family be affected? I was one who always did way beyound

my capabilities, and believe me, I realize now I should have learned earlier

how to say " no " . At least until I was better.

Hey, I also think you should have torn up the prescription, but I would have

had a better suggestion than his ear, on where he could have put it!!! That

guy is dangerous, like so many drs out there today. Peoples lives are at

stake...

Also, Medicaid pays retroactive when you do get approved (if you have to,

you can hire one of those lawyers who specialize in this, and only get paid

after you are approved). Check with your Medicaid office about it.

I will be praying that you heal quickly, and that you get decent med. care.

Take care-

Lyn

===========================

>hey all, well I am kinda back on my feet.. literally. I took that fall and

>have been in bed for about four weeks just from the pain of that.. I did go

>to my normal doctor yesterday and the MRI was not fine as the assistant

>dingy doc said it was...I have to go to a neurosurgeon to see what he can

>do to.. I have deterioration in the lower two veterbrea's in my back but he

>saw what looks like fractures on both sides of each of them, he had me get

>some more regular x-rays done to see if that would show up better.. He also

>put me on Celebrex which is helping some with the pain but still not taking

>it away.... I am also going to see a specialist to have a sleep study done

>they are pretty expensive and we do not have insurance still trying to get

>on Medicaid, my daughter was accepted of course she is healthy!!!! If we

>get turned down then we will appeal it and the hospitals that we have used

>so far have said they will help out too if we are turned down.. That makes

>me feel somewhat better.. The one doctor is from a different hospital

>though so I guess we will have to apply there also. If this helps to get

>some of the things taken care of then I am happy to pay it out if not I

>will be really upset as I was when the phone call came saying my MRI was

>fine... He was the one that thought I was only there for the pain pills..

>like they really did much anyway!!!! I did tell my doctor about how rude he

>was to me and that he talked and treated me like an addicted out in the

>reception area where other people were at.. we live in a very small town

>and this one and the one my doctor are in are kinda like one town because

>both are so small.. I am a ministers wife how would it sound if someone

>repeated that he told me he was not letting me have any more of this pain

>medication and that he was making a note to the doctor about it so that he

>would not allow me to have it either.. he was so rude!! he even held onto

>the prescription I should have ripped it in half and told him to place it

>in his ear!!!!! I was already so upset and in so much pain that I know my

>temper would have gotten out of control if I said anything to him so I

>didn't but it hit me as we were walking out the door as to the people that

>were there when he said that... anyway my doctor said he will take care of

>it and I believe him.. For some reason the assistant wrote down that he put

>me on the Celebrex but he hadn't my doctor asked if I still had enough and

>I said I hadn't been given any he looked down at my chart and asked me

>about the assistant giving it to me and I said no, then he looked back down

>and said well I am going to give you some to try... I know they can not

>fire this guy because it is a small town and the clinic is really busy... I

>will not be going to see him ever again both of my daughters went to him

>once and now go to the other clinic... I really thought they were

>misreading him but I will not be so quick to think that they are

>over-reacting next time... anyway my back is doing better since the fall..

>I did fall again Sunday morning but only got carpet burn on my arm and I

>did not pass out my legs just didn't do their job.. it did not seem to make

>my back much worse but I am sure it didn't help either. I am trying to take

>it easy so I can make it to church this Sunday I have not been in five

>weeks!!!! I did make it to one of the funerals but I paid for it though I

>would have done it again in a heart beat.. The last one I didn't know and

>he was not a member nor attending our church, I think his daughter is

>though anyway she had asked my husband if he would do the funeral and he

>was going to go and talk to the man the week after he died, it was only

>announced in church the Sunday before that he even had cancer so I guess he

>didn't tell the family for awhile because he died on Wed. My husband and I

>were in another state just six hours away he had to attend some meetings

>and I was mostly staying in bed but did get out to eat dinner, since we

>didn't have the kids the spurged and ate out every night which only turned

>out to be three.. on Thursday we had all day to visit our friends, but we

>got the phone call so we had to come back, the trip back was not as hard on

>me though.. we have a van and my back does well in those seats, maybe we

>should bring one inside for me..... I also slept for a couple of hours in

>the back and that helped too.. we stopped a few times so I could walk

>around... found out from a pamphlet in the doctors office that sitting is

>the worse thing you can do for a hurt back... gee too bad someone could not

>have told me that when I was in there!!! I changed my pillows around in the

>bed and boy did it help!!!!!! Much more than the pain pills did!!! Sorry

>this is so long.... I don't write often but I write a lot!!!

>peace,

>Sherry

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Dee. Two years has paid off. We are now herxing me like crazy

getting rid of the mercury and arsenic. What scares me is I wonder how

many of us have the metals and actually are getting better in someways but

these metals' symptoms are hiding that fact because so many of us are not

being tested for this. Love,

> [Original Message]

> From: <LJDSLL@...>

> <slfain@...>

> Date: 4/22/2001 6:23:15 PM

> Subject: Re: rheumatic Update

>

> Glad to hear you're doing so well!

>

> Dee

--- Fain

--- slfain@...

--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

[Guest guest]

rheumatic Update

> Hello, All,

> I wanted to check in with you and update you on my progress. I just

> returned from Dr. DeWet's in Tyler, Texas, having undergone five days of

> steady clindy treatments, three days of ascorbic acid ivs with added

> supplements, and one final day the following Monday of another iv of DMPS

> to flush the high mercury out of this body. Needless to say, I am in a

> pretty good herx at this time but like before, I know there is light at

the

> end of the tunnel having traveled this tunnel before.

> I do want to share the good news with you. My ANA is normal (I have seen

> your message, @RTC and will respond to you privately, and know this

is

> not always permanent but definitey a grand bit of news for me now. In

> addition, all three of my mycoplasms are GONE. And lastly, I am a full

> degree warmer body temperature than I was before. One degree makes an

> awfully lot of difference in terms of staying WARM. This was as exciting

> as the other part of my news. Also, my hands have returned to warm

> again!!!

> Dr. DeWet believes my main symptoms now are the results of the high

> mercury level and we are progressing on getting rid of that. Because I

> cannot do chelation, we will attempt to do the DMPS monthly for four to

six

> more, continue the ONE clindy iv every two to three weeks, and, of

course,

> always do the Minocin/minocycline. In addition, I will attempt to have a

> series of ascorbic acid iv's here in Billings, Montana while I am waiting

> to return to Texas in three months for another go.

> I am thinking of all of you and reading as quickly as I can to catch up on

> all of your news over the past weeks. But in the meantime, you keep

> writing....! Be well, love,

>

>

> --- Fain

> --- slfain@...

> --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

>

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi : I went to Dr. DEwet in January. He has literally saved my life.

I had a severe intestinal blckage with massive gut and systemic infection

(Klibesella). I would sugggest anyone that is sick and needs help go to see

him.

He ia a wonderful Dr. and a wonderful person. You gave me the number and I

thank you. Hopefully, I can return your generosity by helping someone

else.,

rheumatic Update

> Hello, All,

> I wanted to check in with you and update you on my progress. I just

> returned from Dr. DeWet's in Tyler, Texas, having undergone five days of

> steady clindy treatments, three days of ascorbic acid ivs with added

> supplements, and one final day the following Monday of another iv of DMPS

> to flush the high mercury out of this body. Needless to say, I am in a

> pretty good herx at this time but like before, I know there is light at

the

> end of the tunnel having traveled this tunnel before.

> I do want to share the good news with you. My ANA is normal (I have seen

> your message, @RTC and will respond to you privately, and know this

is

> not always permanent but definitey a grand bit of news for me now. In

> addition, all three of my mycoplasms are GONE. And lastly, I am a full

> degree warmer body temperature than I was before. One degree makes an

> awfully lot of difference in terms of staying WARM. This was as exciting

> as the other part of my news. Also, my hands have returned to warm

> again!!!

> Dr. DeWet believes my main symptoms now are the results of the high

> mercury level and we are progressing on getting rid of that. Because I

> cannot do chelation, we will attempt to do the DMPS monthly for four to

six

> more, continue the ONE clindy iv every two to three weeks, and, of

course,

> always do the Minocin/minocycline. In addition, I will attempt to have a

> series of ascorbic acid iv's here in Billings, Montana while I am waiting

> to return to Texas in three months for another go.

> I am thinking of all of you and reading as quickly as I can to catch up on

> all of your news over the past weeks. But in the meantime, you keep

> writing....! Be well, love,

>

>

> --- Fain

> --- slfain@...

> --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

>

>

>

>

> To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear , I remember inviting you to go down with Joyce and me but figured

you were not going to go see him. I am so glad you did and

that you are doing well. Since I am doing so well scleroderma wise yet having

some of these symptoms, I wonder how many of us on here at

this site are actually progressing nicely on the disease we each have and yet

are harboring some other things which are still giving us

symptoms. Without him, I never would have known about the arsenic and mercury

nor would I have known about the bacteria that was found in

my intestines. That is scarey! I know this is a luxury that is not available

to most of us. So many here are lucky to even find a doctor

who will be willing to just prescribe the antibiotic, much less do all these

tests. My heart aches for this uphill battle for them.

I will be returning to Texas for another week around July 17. Maybe I will

see you there. I know you must be so very happy to be

reclaiming your life.

Bass wrote:

> Hi : I went to Dr. DEwet in January. He has literally saved my life.

> I had a severe intestinal blckage with massive gut and systemic infection

> (Klibesella). I would sugggest anyone that is sick and needs help go to see

> him.

> He ia a wonderful Dr. and a wonderful person. You gave me the number and I

> thank you. Hopefully, I can return your generosity by helping someone

> else.,

>

> rheumatic Update

>

> > Hello, All,

> > I wanted to check in with you and update you on my progress. I just

> > returned from Dr. DeWet's in Tyler, Texas, having undergone five days of

> > steady clindy treatments, three days of ascorbic acid ivs with added

> > supplements, and one final day the following Monday of another iv of DMPS

> > to flush the high mercury out of this body. Needless to say, I am in a

> > pretty good herx at this time but like before, I know there is light at

> the

> > end of the tunnel having traveled this tunnel before.

> > I do want to share the good news with you. My ANA is normal (I have seen

> > your message, @RTC and will respond to you privately, and know this

> is

> > not always permanent but definitey a grand bit of news for me now. In

> > addition, all three of my mycoplasms are GONE. And lastly, I am a full

> > degree warmer body temperature than I was before. One degree makes an

> > awfully lot of difference in terms of staying WARM. This was as exciting

> > as the other part of my news. Also, my hands have returned to warm

> > again!!!

> > Dr. DeWet believes my main symptoms now are the results of the high

> > mercury level and we are progressing on getting rid of that. Because I

> > cannot do chelation, we will attempt to do the DMPS monthly for four to

> six

> > more, continue the ONE clindy iv every two to three weeks, and, of

> course,

> > always do the Minocin/minocycline. In addition, I will attempt to have a

> > series of ascorbic acid iv's here in Billings, Montana while I am waiting

> > to return to Texas in three months for another go.

> > I am thinking of all of you and reading as quickly as I can to catch up on

> > all of your news over the past weeks. But in the meantime, you keep

> > writing....! Be well, love,

> >

> >

> > --- Fain

> > --- slfain@...

> > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

> >

> >

> >