Re: Line of Duty Injury - A question

February 13, 2003

This is a very serious matter and my thoughts go toward the injured man,

family and friends. This certainly brings up at least a couple of interesting

question for those of us who work the streets. First: What does the law say

(in Texas) about injury or death of Emergency Medical folks working at an

MVC? Do we have the same protection as a member of law enforcement from

liability and stupidy on the part of the public?

I'm thinking that perhaps the answer to this question is going to make you

think really hard about stepping out on the highway or road.

Regards,

y Bolleter

February 13, 2003

Another point is to find out where the legislation went that required

motorists to 'give us a lane' at scenes.

'TJ' Hatfield EMT-P

" I would rather you call me and not need me, than need me and not call me. "

quem di diligunt

Re: Line of Duty Injury - A question

> This is a very serious matter and my thoughts go toward the injured man,

> family and friends. This certainly brings up at least a couple of

interesting

> question for those of us who work the streets. First: What does the law

say

> (in Texas) about injury or death of Emergency Medical folks working at an

> MVC? Do we have the same protection as a member of law enforcement from

> liability and stupidy on the part of the public?

>

> I'm thinking that perhaps the answer to this question is going to make you

> think really hard about stepping out on the highway or road.

>

> Regards,

>

> y Bolleter

>

February 14, 2003

I have also heard of the flashing lights drawing a drunk driver but don't

know how much truth there is in that. Hope someone can answer it for me

since I'm working on my training schedule for our EMS and this is one of the

first topics we are going to cover.

Dana Garrett EMT-I

February 16, 2003

's story makes me recall the closest I ever came to getting hit. New

Year's day 1985, I believe. Responded in thick fog to an MVA where a person

in a pickup had run under the trailer of an 18-wheeler at a T intersection.

Driver was DRT from massive head injuries. Fog was so thick there was only

about 15-20 foot visibility. I was attempting to set out flares when out of

the muck flew a Trooper who was driving about the same rate of speed the

deceased had been going. I literally had to dive into the ditch to miss

being run over.

I got him, though. He wanted me to draw blood from the corpse, so I made him

get in the truck with me and watch as I aspirated blood from the left

ventricle with a 14 and a 10 cc syringe. When the blood gushed up into the

syringe he lost it. Everybody's vulnerable to SOMETHING.

GG

In a message dated 2/16/2003 10:08:27 AM Central Standard Time,

texaslp@... writes:

> Once, I had a DPS officer order me (while working on a box) to re-open

> a previously closed section of the roadway because he said it was

> unsafe to close the road. Wasn't 2 minutes until his cruiser was hit

> by an oncoming motorist. When asked about the incident, I told the

> whole story to his Sergeant. He wasn't very impressed.....

>

> E. Tate, LP

> Tyler, Texas

>

> Also, did everyone notice how I cleverly SNIPPED away all the parts of the

> previous message I didn't need? There will be a quiz later.

GG

February 17, 2003

Just a little note to let you all know how much help this post is to us in the

field who read it daily--yesterday we were called to a one car rollover about 12

miles south of our town about dusk on a very busy two lane highway. I am always

the safety person on the truck, but get tunnel vision just like everyone else

does when pulling up to a scene of this nature. Anyway, just as we got there I

remembered the article I had read just a short time earlier about wearing the

orange vests when on a scene and it reminded me to drag them out and make my

crew wear them. Its a great thing we had them on because there were all sorts

of rubber-neckers there.

Thanks everyone--for keeping me in line and safe when my mind is moving a

thousand times a minute.

Be safe out there!

Dana Garrett EMT-I 427

Training Officer

Fritch EMS

In a message dated 2/16/2003 4:37:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, wegandy1938

writes:

>

> 's story makes me recall the closest I ever came to getting hit. New

> Year's day 1985, I believe. Responded in thick fog to an MVA where a person

> in a pickup had run under the trailer of an 18-wheeler at a T intersection.

> Driver was DRT from massive head injuries. Fog was so thick there was only

> about 15-20 foot visibility. I was attempting to set out flares when out of

> the muck flew a Trooper who was driving about the same rate of speed the

> deceased had been going. I literally had to dive into the ditch to miss

> being run over.

>

> I got him, though. He wanted me to draw blood from the corpse, so I made him

> get in the truck with me and watch as I aspirated blood from the left

> ventricle with a 14 and a 10 cc syringe. When the blood

> gushed up into the

> syringe he lost it. Everybody's vulnerable to SOMETHING.

>

> GG

February 17, 2003

Cougar!! wrote:

>

> If flashing lights DO draw DWI's towards them and there

> is evedince of this, I'd like to know, and include the

> 100 ft. rule into our safety protocols.

This should NOT be accomplished by the MICU in most cases. Don't

confuse what FD should be doing to what YOU should be doing. As a

matter of policy, the primary MICU should be parked AHEAD of the scene

in all but the most unusual cases. First responders, or subsequent

responders (fire, law enforcement) should park their vehicles for scene

protection. If you park your MICU behind the scene, you are only

protected until you get your patient. Then you have to take that

patient and yourself into traffic to get to your MICU.

Rob

February 18, 2003

Coogah!

Wouldn't you have been more embarrassed if you had hit another vehicle during

this " non-emergency " and caused injury or worse? Your dreams would have

evaporated into a legal nightmare. I am all too familiar with the area you

speak of, and have been endangered more than once by folks gawking at the

skydivers and forgetting to watch out for traffic.

Vehicular operations are the most hazardous part of the EMS business, and have

killed more good medics than cigarettes, rye whiskey and wild, wild women (or

men) put together. Running hot with lights and siren is a last resort used to

request the cooperation of other traffic in clearing a path and ONLY on the way

to a bona fide emergency.

Running hot on an uncontrolled road with numerous potentials for unexpected

cross traffic is an invitation to disaster. A more measured approach will

ensure you longer and more profitable career.

When you are by yourself on a rural street scene, park ahead of the involved

vehicles. Keep something heavy between your ambulance and oncoming traffic. A

45,000 lb fire truck is my personal choice.

Be CAREFUL out there.......

Terry Dinerman EMTP

February 18, 2003

COOGAH!

I am relieved. My service nearly lost 2 medics and a rider in Dickinson a

couple of weeks ago, and the motorist who caused the wreck is dead, and NO-ONE

is at fault. I feel a primal urge to preach safety.

And I personally avoid running hot like I would avoid ANTHRAX. Somebody needs

to be damn sick before I will endanger my patient, crew and the public. Running

hot never seems to get me to the hospital THAT much faster, either......

Be careful out there........the knuckleheads will run you over watching the

jumps.......

Cheers!

Terry Dinerman EMTP

February 18, 2003

Ann Emerg Med 1995 Apr;25(4):507-11 Related Articles, Links

Is ambulance transport time with lights and siren faster than that without?

Hunt RC, Brown LH, Cabinum ES, Whitley TW, Prasad NH, Owens CF Jr, Mayo CE

Jr.

Department of Emergency Medicine, East Carolina University School of

Medicine, Greenville, NC.

STUDY OBJECTIVE: To determine whether ambulance transport time from the

scene to the emergency department is faster with warning lights and siren

than that without. DESIGN: In a convenience sample, transport times and

routes of ambulances using lights and sirens were recorded by an observer.

The time also was recorded by a paramedic who drove an ambulance without

lights and siren over identical routes during simulated transports at the

same time of day and on the same day of the week as the corresponding

lights-and-siren transport. SETTING: An emergency medical service system in

a city with a population of 46,000. PARTICIPANTS: Emergency medical

technicians and paramedics. RESULTS: Fifty transport times with lights and

siren averaged 43.5 seconds faster than the transport times without lights

and siren [t = 4.21, P = .0001]. CONCLUSION: In this setting, the

43.5-second mean time savings does not warrant the use of lights and siren

during ambulance transport, except in rare situations or clinical

circumstances.

PMID: 7710157 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

February 18, 2003

Puma wrote, " Sometimes, when you are in trouble, hearing the sirens

coming towards you is the sweetest sound on earth. "

Not if you are " in trouble " with the law!

Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

February 19, 2003

Thanks once again, Dr. B! I am by no means a research-er. So it is nice to

know a few scholarly folks who can help support (or damn) me when needed.

Can we barbeque some sacred cow together at EMSTOCK?

Regards-

Terry (Old Pokey) Dinerman EMTP

RE: Line of Duty Injury - A question