Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 Flashing back to my years at TDH..... Certainly, the rules change, and your best bet is to ask TDH directly. There can be some recourse(disciplinary action) against the EMS provider if they allow uncertified people to work on the ambulance. The provider might even have an obligation to report an uncertified individual who applies for a job. I think TDH can take it from here. -mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 The offense of claiming to be an EMT when you are not, is a class A Misdemeanor (punnishable but up to 1 year in jail) and fines, however, if you represent yourself as an EMT, and use that representation to gain employment, influence someone's actions officially, or provide care, it is a 3rd degree Felony. It is ALMOST the same as impersonating a police officer. TDH should be notified because they can investigate, and certainly enlighten the employer of their errors, as well as take action against them for it for each offense that occurred violating the EMS rules and the Health & Safety code. TDH can also bar that person from being able to become certified at any point down the line. Your local PD, SO, or DPS should be notified because they can bring the criminal action in to play. TDH USUALLY does not pursue the criminal actions, and leaves that up to the LE agencies. LE usually jumps all over this, in most cases. Now...having said that. An EMS provider may employ non-certified staff who work on the ambulance in varying capacities, as long as the minimum 2-EMT staffing is met in addition to that person, or, as long as the one EMT staffing is met if they have a waiver from TDH to run with only 1 certified (as some under served areas do). This is a tough decision to make, but I would VERIFY that the person is indeed not certified first, as they may be certified under a different name than you know them to be, etc. Check before you ruin someone's life, but definitely follow through with the appropriate action ASAP. Remember, the actions you take may be far reaching for both the individual and the provider employing him. Take care, Blum, EMT-P P.S. You might call the employer and let them know he's not certified. If they somehow legitimately were duped in to thinking he was certified, they can help themselves by " self reporting " the mistake. Usually that ammounts to a hard slap on the wrist when TDH takes everything in to account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 Actually, it is required by rule, not law. knows what the requirements are, just wanted to know his responsibility in reporting others. In a message dated 1/17/03 9:34:32 AM Central Standard Time, whispering_winds1@... writes: > An ambulance, by law, requires TWO certified EMT's to work on a truck. This > would be 2 EMT's, 1 EMT & 1 EMT-I, 1 EMT & EMT-P, 2 EMT-I's, 1 EMT-I & > EMT-P, or 2 EMT-P's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 According to Texas Administrative Code, Rule 157.11, the minimum staffing requirement (without a waiver) for a BLS unit is 2 ECAs. Maxine Pate Re: Impersonating a EMT > > An ambulance, by law, requires TWO certified EMT's to work on a truck. This would be 2 EMT's, 1 EMT & 1 EMT-I, 1 EMT & EMT-P, 2 EMT-I's, 1 EMT-I & EMT-P, or 2 EMT-P's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 yes discreetly / anomalously. to tdh fast. Impersonating a EMT Guys and Gals, What is the legal standing when you find a person without a certification on another services ambulance? What if you know this only due to they tried to get employment with you ? Do you have a legal responsibility to turn them in ? Ruhnke, NR/CCEMT-P Field Training Officer jruhnke@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 Oh now wait....have we totally forgot about the trusty ECA's .......do they not count anymore as a ems personal on a ambulance...... Re: Impersonating a EMT Actually, it is required by rule, not law. knows what the requirements are, just wanted to know his responsibility in reporting others. In a message dated 1/17/03 9:34:32 AM Central Standard Time, whispering_winds1@... writes: > An ambulance, by law, requires TWO certified EMT's to work on a truck. > This > would be 2 EMT's, 1 EMT & 1 EMT-I, 1 EMT & EMT-P, 2 EMT-I's, 1 EMT-I & > EMT-P, or 2 EMT-P's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 > Guys and Gals, > What is the legal standing when you find a person without a certification on > another services ambulance? What if you know this only due to they tried to > get employment with you ? Do you have a legal responsibility to turn them in > ? > > Ruhnke, NR/CCEMT-P > Field Training Officer > jruhnke@c... ECA's are still used quite often especially in the rural and volunteer services around the panhandle. The last I was informed on the issue ECA's are certified and depending on the level of care that a unit is certified for and the personal available than that unit can run at the Highest level that the personal on board is certified. ie..ECA and Paramedic on a MICU unit can operate at that level. ECA and basic is BLS. As far as the individual in question. Is he currently enrolled in a program or a cadet type program or under some type of EMS training program? Or is he actually performing under false pretense of being an EMT. My experience on this situtation is find out the facts. Bring the issue up at a local level and deal with it through a chain of command type deal. jumping the gun could put a totally compentant and valued EMS personnel on the chopping block prematurely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 An eca can not replace one of the medics on a als or micu unit they may augment it but not replace one. Re: Impersonating a EMT Actually, it is required by rule, not law. knows what the requirements are, just wanted to know his responsibility in reporting others. In a message dated 1/17/03 9:34:32 AM Central Standard Time, whispering_winds1@... writes: > An ambulance, by law, requires TWO certified EMT's to work on a truck. > This > would be 2 EMT's, 1 EMT & 1 EMT-I, 1 EMT & EMT-P, 2 EMT-I's, 1 EMT-I & > EMT-P, or 2 EMT-P's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 In researching chapter 773 of the Health and Safety code (773.050 specifically) you would have found the same information regarding ECAs. Maxine Pate Re: Impersonating a EMT > 2 ECAs is all it takes to make a BLS? This I did not > know! I thought there had to be at LEAST an EMT > accompanying an ECA. Texas Admistrative Code is yet > ANOTHER set of books where EMS rules can be found, but > I didnt see this one either. Of course, I havent done > any research on the specific subject outside of H & S > 773. Keep the good work coming in! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 Coug........ECA and a Paramedic can't make an MICU unit unless there is a waver. However, ECA and ECA can make a BLS crew. I forgot to mention ECA's in my earlier post because most EMS programs are not doing ECA anymore since there is no ECA certification through NREMT. This has been left to the discression of the accredited educational institutions to certify to the state that the ECA students meet standards for certification, and at least most of the ones in the area I work in are not willing to do that. CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 Where in the rules pertaining to EMS do you find this about " special emergency permission obtained from the local Regional Office " ? Maxine Pate --- Original Message ----- To: < > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 10:23 AM Subject: Re: Impersonating a EMT > To crew an AMBULANCE with two ECA's is not considered an optimal minimum staffing level by the Texas Department of Health, and is generally only done under a special emergency permission obtained from the local Regional Office. The Region will then work with the providers in the area to obtain or train providers to at least the EMT-B level or develop a First Responder System with ambulance's staffed by EMT-B's or higher provided by other agencies under Interlocal Agreements. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 Thanks for posting this information. I had heard this subject discussed before, but this is a very good, straightforward summary. Maxine Pate Re: Impersonating a EMT > I recently brought up this issue to our regional people in our area. Their reply to me was basically that while you MUST staff your trucks that are licensed at ACL or MICU levels with the minimum EMT-B at all times, there is some room for variation in the BLS with MICU capable licensed truck. > > Per Veal/TDH: > You appear to be confusing level of license (provider) and level of care. Staffing requirements for an MICU or an MICU capable ambulance are at least one EMT basic and one Paramedic. At that time, you may legally call yourself an MICU. > > That in and of itself has absolutely nothing with the level of care which can be provided. Medical direction is the only thing that determines level of care. So, if an ECA and a paramedic staff an ambulance AND have appropriate equipment and medical direction, then the paramedic may perform any procedure which he/she has been trained to do. > > That ambulance is officially considered BLS (due only to staffing requirements) but can offer the same treatments as a legally staffed MICU. > > > > Hope this helps you all. > > > > Jane Hill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 ONCE AGAIN ECA'S ARE RECONIZED AS A CERTIFIED LEVEL THAT IS CONSIDERED A BLS CREW...ON THE BLS CERTIFIED UNITS.....NO SPECIAL APPROVAL NEEDED....LOOK AT THE STAFFING RULES.... BUT WHEN YOU STAFF A UNIT WITH A ECA IT DOES LIMIT THE SKILLS YOU CAN PRACTICE.. MOST OF THE ADVANCED UNITS AND SKILLS CAN NOT BE DONE UNLESS THERE IS AT LEAST A EMT ON THE UNIT WITH THE EMT-I OR EMT-P Re: Impersonating a EMT > To crew an AMBULANCE with two ECA's is not considered an optimal > minimum staffing level by the Texas Department of Health, and is generally only done under a special emergency permission obtained from the local Regional Office. The Region will then work with the providers in the area to obtain or train providers to at least the EMT-B level or develop a First Responder System with ambulance's staffed by EMT-B's or higher provided by other agencies under Interlocal Agreements. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 g23219 wrote: > > A UNIT IS NOT CONSIDERED MICU UNTIL A PARAMEDIC AND AT LEAST A EMT ARE > STAFFING IT..... Unfortunately, we are down to arguing semantics now. What label is currently placed on the vehicle you are working on has no bearing on the level of care you are authorized to provide. As has already been stated, your medical director determines your level of practice, not your vehicle's certification. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 Any time, Cougar. Jane Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 I beg to differ - please go back and read my post yesterday with quotes from THH Region 2/3. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 Nobody said anything about offering it " illegally " and you seem to be stretching the quote into that is implies something it doesn't by saying that. I quoted the Bureau's view, which is how a service will be regulated. THAT is what you have to worry about; not OUR interpretation, but THEIRS. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 Besides, who are you? You haven't signed your post.... Jane Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 Thanks, Cougar!!!!!! Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 The only paragraph that was mine was the top one. The rest was a direct copy and paste from a message I had received from Veal clarifying my questions on this issue at an earlier date. Jane Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 Another act of courtesy exercised by most of the posters to this list is signing their posts with their name. Example: one would sign as Mike or Mike Herring, instead of Cougar. Maxine Pate ----- Original Message ----- > > do you not realize that responding in all caps denotes > that you are yelling at the top of your lungs?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 You mean Cougar is not his name? ly, I was afraid to assume that and offend anybody.... LOL Jane Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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