Strange mixed emotion

August 30, 2009

So...I have this estranged friend. Lot of BPD/NPD traits. Can be a lot of fun,

but has NO empathy, all about her, rages and attacks people and feels absolutely

justified in doing so (even though 9 times out of 10 its completely over the top

unessesarry ranting). Just junkyard dog mean sometimes. One of those people

that when you get healthy you look back and think " Holy Guacamole...did I

actually CHOOSE to hang out with that person? "

Anyway...I found out that Friday night she totalled her car and got arrested for

a DUI. No big surprise...considering how she conducts herself it was bound to

happen some day. What is shocking me about it is how I feel about it. I

mean...I dont like this person. I want nothing to do with this person. She's a

B$@%! and Im glad she's out of my life. But...I felt so sorry for her. All

aspects of it...from the humiliation of being arrested and having the gossip

hounds spread the word to the fact that she spent almost 24 hours in prison (and

I can only imagine what that is like).

But then I've got this other emotion. GOOD. She's a mean person. In general

she's a mean person and she made the choice to go out drinking and get behind

the wheel and so now she'll have to deal with the consequences of her choice and

Thank God Im not friends with her anymore and having to deal with the aftermath

of this.

And I seriously dont know which emotion is more powerful but I dont want to feel

sorry for her. I want and probably should just feel like " Yup...she screwed up

and she deserves it " . But I cant. I mean...not only was she horrifically MEAN

to me time and again and when I finally stood up for myself she dropped me like

a hot potato and made me into the crazy person who she " just cant deal with

cause Im crazy " (the mutual friends that matter know the truth...so its all

good). On top of that...she acted recklessly and endangered herself and others

and is now paying to price. Her butt deserves to be sitting in jail and dealing

with this.

But I still feel bad for her. How messed up is that?

August 30, 2009

Jen,

I don't think empathy for someone else's suffering--even if they deserve it and

brought it on themselves--is ever messed up. What makes you feel bad about it?

It would be one thing if you felt the need to rush out and rescue her, but that

doesn't sound like that's what you're talking about. It just sounds like you

can understand how she would be feeling right now--she cannot understand other

people's feelings, but you can. Your capacity for empathy is human, I think,

and a gift. It is what makes you are who and what you are that and it is also

what she lacks. She is probably mean largely because, every time she lashes

out, she thinks the other person is just getting what they deserve. You don't

have it in you to see the world in such black and white terms. You see things

as gray and as complex: she brought this on herself and deserves it, and yet you

also understand that she is suffering right now and that she doesn't and can't

connect her actions to her suffering and therefore learn from it. She is just

going to suffer.

What you describe wanting to believe in is " just world thinking " --that good

people should be rewarded and bad people should be punished. But this kind of

thinking has led to a great deal of human-created suffering. In the course of

human history, it has frequently been the motivation behind enormously

destructive behavior. It's not a bad thing that you can't really do it

wholeheartedly. I would say it's more a sign that you have evolved than that

you're messed up.

Pds seem to be able to one emotion at a time. The rest of us go through life

with just the kind of mixed emotions you describe--about most things, most of

the time. Consider yourself normal and healthy and a full member of the human

race.

Just my thoughts.

Best,

Ashana

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August 30, 2009

thats not messed up at all, this shows you're compassionate !! You feel

bad, even though you don't care for her..I think thats wonderful !!

Jackie

And I seriously dont know which emotion is more powerful but I dont want to

feel sorry for her. I want and probably should just feel like " Yup...she

screwed up and she deserves it " . But I cant. I mean...not only was she

horrifically MEAN to me time and again and when I finally stood up for

myself she dropped me like a hot potato and made me into the crazy person

who she " just cant deal with cause Im crazy " (the mutual friends that matter

know the truth...so its all good). On top of that...she acted recklessly and

endangered herself and others and is now paying to price. Her butt deserves

to be sitting in jail and dealing with this.

But I still feel bad for her. How messed up is that?

August 30, 2009

Jen, I don't think it is messed up that you feel this

combination of emotions. Feeling sorry for someone when

something bad happens to them is separate from liking or not

liking them. Empathy and compassion are good things to have.

They don't change the fact that the person you feel them for has

done bad things though. I feel sorry for my nada in some ways.

She didn't ask to have BPD and can't really help the way her

brain works. That sure doesn't make me like her or want to put

up with her abuse.

At 01:01 PM 08/30/2009 jennesis11 wrote:

>So...I have this estranged friend. Lot of BPD/NPD traits. Can

>be a lot of fun, but has NO empathy, all about her, rages and

>attacks people and feels absolutely justified in doing so (even

>though 9 times out of 10 its completely over the top

>unessesarry ranting). Just junkyard dog mean sometimes. One

>of those people that when you get healthy you look back and

>think " Holy Guacamole...did I actually CHOOSE to hang out with

>that person? "

>

>Anyway...I found out that Friday night she totalled her car and

>got arrested for a DUI. No big surprise...considering how she

>conducts herself it was bound to happen some day. What is

>shocking me about it is how I feel about it. I mean...I dont

>like this person. I want nothing to do with this

>person. She's a B$@%! and Im glad she's out of my

>life. But...I felt so sorry for her. All aspects of it...from

>the humiliation of being arrested and having the gossip hounds

>spread the word to the fact that she spent almost 24 hours in

>prison (and I can only imagine what that is like).

>

>But then I've got this other emotion. GOOD. She's a mean

>person. In general she's a mean person and she made the choice

>to go out drinking and get behind the wheel and so now she'll

>have to deal with the consequences of her choice and Thank God

>Im not friends with her anymore and having to deal with the

>aftermath of this.

>

>And I seriously dont know which emotion is more powerful but I

>dont want to feel sorry for her. I want and probably should

>just feel like " Yup...she screwed up and she deserves it " . But

>I cant. I mean...not only was she horrifically MEAN to me time

>and again and when I finally stood up for myself she dropped me

>like a hot potato and made me into the crazy person who she

> " just cant deal with cause Im crazy " (the mutual friends that

>matter know the truth...so its all good). On top of that...she

>acted recklessly and endangered herself and others and is now

>paying to price. Her butt deserves to be sitting in jail and

>dealing with this.

>

>But I still feel bad for her. How messed up is that?

>

--

Katrina

August 30, 2009

Hi Jen,

I'll add my vote to the rest; I think you're simply a decent human being to feel

compassion for someone who is suffering the negative consequences of her

negative, narcissistic actions.

Like yourself, I too had a long-time friend whom I didn't realize (for decades)

was/is a malignant narcissist. I guess that having a bpd/n-mom conditioned me

to accept that kind of treatment from friends as well. But as I began to grow

healthier emotionally, I began pulling away from this old friend, which enraged

her. First she attacked me verbally and said she wanted nothing more to do with

me, but then she began stalking and harassing me on the Internet; that went on

for several years, but its stopped now. Still, I can feel sorry for her. You

have to be pretty messed up mentally to feel justified in stalking and harassing

someone.

And I feel sad for my nada as well, but as Katrina pointed out feeling

compassion for my nada doesn't make me want to have contact with her.

So, I guess we're all in the same club, so to speak.

-Annie

> >So...I have this estranged friend. Lot of BPD/NPD traits. Can

> >be a lot of fun, but has NO empathy, all about her, rages and

> >attacks people and feels absolutely justified in doing so (even

> >though 9 times out of 10 its completely over the top

> >unessesarry ranting). Just junkyard dog mean sometimes. One

> >of those people that when you get healthy you look back and

> >think " Holy Guacamole...did I actually CHOOSE to hang out with

> >that person? "

> >

> >Anyway...I found out that Friday night she totalled her car and

> >got arrested for a DUI. No big surprise...considering how she

> >conducts herself it was bound to happen some day. What is

> >shocking me about it is how I feel about it. I mean...I dont

> >like this person. I want nothing to do with this

> >person. She's a B$@%! and Im glad she's out of my

> >life. But...I felt so sorry for her. All aspects of it...from

> >the humiliation of being arrested and having the gossip hounds

> >spread the word to the fact that she spent almost 24 hours in

> >prison (and I can only imagine what that is like).

> >

> >But then I've got this other emotion. GOOD. She's a mean

> >person. In general she's a mean person and she made the choice

> >to go out drinking and get behind the wheel and so now she'll

> >have to deal with the consequences of her choice and Thank God

> >Im not friends with her anymore and having to deal with the

> >aftermath of this.

> >

> >And I seriously dont know which emotion is more powerful but I

> >dont want to feel sorry for her. I want and probably should

> >just feel like " Yup...she screwed up and she deserves it " . But

> >I cant. I mean...not only was she horrifically MEAN to me time

> >and again and when I finally stood up for myself she dropped me

> >like a hot potato and made me into the crazy person who she

> > " just cant deal with cause Im crazy " (the mutual friends that

> >matter know the truth...so its all good). On top of that...she

> >acted recklessly and endangered herself and others and is now

> >paying to price. Her butt deserves to be sitting in jail and

> >dealing with this.

> >

> >But I still feel bad for her. How messed up is that?

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

August 30, 2009

We ARE all in the same club...unfortunately. And that's what is sorta slapping

me in the face a little with this. This whole having compassion for the

compassionless thing. I dont understand why I feel the way I feel about this.

I don't understand it because I can feel the way Im feeling about it...sorry for

her...sorry that she is allowing herself to circle the drain...sorry that she's

hit a new low...while knowing that she would not be having the same reaction if

it were me or any one of her/our other friends. In fact...she would probably

use it as an opportunity to berate the person and point out the persons flaws

and lecture them about how they really need to get their sheit together.

Maybe Im feeling a bit of mis-placed guilt because not long after she dropped me

she tried to reconcile and I completely shunned her and refused her olive

branches and let all interested parties know that I wasnt interested in a

reconcilliation with her. I think her not talking to me after that last night

was her form of punishment for standing up to her. I was supposed to go

apologize and make amends and promise not to do it again...and I didnt.

Anyway...After that the tidbits I heard were that she was going downhill.

Drinking more, losing friends, losing job, etc. And I felt bad about the stuff

I heard but also felt like I was finally free and didnt want to get back into

the melee (especially since I also heard that she still wasnt taking

responsibility for her life). I know her choices have absolutely NOTHING to do

with me, and Im powerless to heal her and Im not the reason she is where she is.

But...maybe Im feeling guilty because things are basically good for me and Im

basically happy and I have a nice strong base of basically healthy friends

now...and she doesn't. So hearing about this new low just makes me sad for her.

I think I know that this is a KO thing. And, funny enough, and speaking to

Annies point about being more open to PD'd friends because of our PD'd parents,

when I was enmeshed with her I often wondered if I wasnt in some way seeking to

re-live the relationship with my fada and gain his approval by proxy through

gaining her approval...which was as impossible as gaining my fada's approval.

Very twisted.

I guess I just dont wish harm on people...even mean ones. And I guess I needed

some validation that I wasnt going back down some co-dependent skewed thinking

road. So...thanks all

> > >So...I have this estranged friend. Lot of BPD/NPD traits. Can

> > >be a lot of fun, but has NO empathy, all about her, rages and

> > >attacks people and feels absolutely justified in doing so (even

> > >though 9 times out of 10 its completely over the top

> > >unessesarry ranting). Just junkyard dog mean sometimes. One

> > >of those people that when you get healthy you look back and

> > >think " Holy Guacamole...did I actually CHOOSE to hang out with

> > >that person? "

> > >

> > >Anyway...I found out that Friday night she totalled her car and

> > >got arrested for a DUI. No big surprise...considering how she

> > >conducts herself it was bound to happen some day. What is

> > >shocking me about it is how I feel about it. I mean...I dont

> > >like this person. I want nothing to do with this

> > >person. She's a B$@%! and Im glad she's out of my

> > >life. But...I felt so sorry for her. All aspects of it...from

> > >the humiliation of being arrested and having the gossip hounds

> > >spread the word to the fact that she spent almost 24 hours in

> > >prison (and I can only imagine what that is like).

> > >

> > >But then I've got this other emotion. GOOD. She's a mean

> > >person. In general she's a mean person and she made the choice

> > >to go out drinking and get behind the wheel and so now she'll

> > >have to deal with the consequences of her choice and Thank God

> > >Im not friends with her anymore and having to deal with the

> > >aftermath of this.

> > >

> > >And I seriously dont know which emotion is more powerful but I

> > >dont want to feel sorry for her. I want and probably should

> > >just feel like " Yup...she screwed up and she deserves it " . But

> > >I cant. I mean...not only was she horrifically MEAN to me time

> > >and again and when I finally stood up for myself she dropped me

> > >like a hot potato and made me into the crazy person who she

> > > " just cant deal with cause Im crazy " (the mutual friends that

> > >matter know the truth...so its all good). On top of that...she

> > >acted recklessly and endangered herself and others and is now

> > >paying to price. Her butt deserves to be sitting in jail and

> > >dealing with this.

> > >

> > >But I still feel bad for her. How messed up is that?

> > >

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

August 30, 2009

Congratulations, Jenn! You're human!

So many times we feel contradictory emotions - its like laughing and crying at

the same time. Strange, but it happens.

DJ

>

> So...I have this estranged friend. Lot of BPD/NPD traits. Can be a lot of

fun, but has NO empathy, all about her, rages and attacks people and feels

absolutely justified in doing so (even though 9 times out of 10 its completely

over the top unessesarry ranting). Just junkyard dog mean sometimes. One of

those people that when you get healthy you look back and think " Holy

Guacamole...did I actually CHOOSE to hang out with that person? "

>

> Anyway...I found out that Friday night she totalled her car and got arrested

for a DUI. No big surprise...considering how she conducts herself it was bound

to happen some day. What is shocking me about it is how I feel about it. I

mean...I dont like this person. I want nothing to do with this person. She's a

B$@%! and Im glad she's out of my life. But...I felt so sorry for her. All

aspects of it...from the humiliation of being arrested and having the gossip

hounds spread the word to the fact that she spent almost 24 hours in prison (and

I can only imagine what that is like).

>

> But then I've got this other emotion. GOOD. She's a mean person. In general

she's a mean person and she made the choice to go out drinking and get behind

the wheel and so now she'll have to deal with the consequences of her choice and

Thank God Im not friends with her anymore and having to deal with the aftermath

of this.

>

> And I seriously dont know which emotion is more powerful but I dont want to

feel sorry for her. I want and probably should just feel like " Yup...she

screwed up and she deserves it " . But I cant. I mean...not only was she

horrifically MEAN to me time and again and when I finally stood up for myself

she dropped me like a hot potato and made me into the crazy person who she " just

cant deal with cause Im crazy " (the mutual friends that matter know the

truth...so its all good). On top of that...she acted recklessly and endangered

herself and others and is now paying to price. Her butt deserves to be sitting

in jail and dealing with this.

>

> But I still feel bad for her. How messed up is that?

>

August 30, 2009

Jenn - you have both reaped what you have sown. Your consequences have been more

positive becs you have made wise choices. She has chosen and experienced the

opposite. What she is experiencing IS sad. She would have travelled this road

even if you had chosen to reconcile your relationship. It was not your job to

save her then, just as it is not your job to judge her now (and I don't believe

that you are juding her at all). This is what diffentiates PDs from nons ~ the

ability for true compassion despite conflicting emotions. I join with the others

in saying you are in a good place here, healthy and well-balanced. Well done.

Take care,

>

> We ARE all in the same club...unfortunately. And that's what is sorta

slapping me in the face a little with this. This whole having compassion for

the compassionless thing. I dont understand why I feel the way I feel about

this. I don't understand it because I can feel the way Im feeling about

it...sorry for her...sorry that she is allowing herself to circle the

drain...sorry that she's hit a new low...while knowing that she would not be

having the same reaction if it were me or any one of her/our other friends. In

fact...she would probably use it as an opportunity to berate the person and

point out the persons flaws and lecture them about how they really need to get

their sheit together.

August 30, 2009

,

You are sooo right. I didnt even really realize this is what I was doing. We

are both where we are for better or for worse because of the choices we have

made. Im totally doing that KO thing in feeling somehow guilty and responsible

for her misfortune (like I could have made her go to school instead of the bar

or should have not gone to school and spent more time at the bar hanging out

with her when we were younger) and completely turning my back on my own

accomplishments and right to happiness as though I dont deserve it. I dont have

a fairy godmother that bestowed these things upon me any more than she has a

wicked witch that put a curse upon her.

And you are right...I do not sit in judgement here. Far too much glass in my

house to be even going there.

Thanks again...all of you!

> >

> > We ARE all in the same club...unfortunately. And that's what is sorta