Re: What??? to

[Guest guest]

Glenda,

I am very interested to hear what you find out about your spider looking ultrasound. As far as I am aware, scarring is not really visible in an ultrasound but this is interesting.

Poly

[Guest guest]

Hi Glenda,

I realized I haven’t responded yet

to your question about the spider web ultrasounds. Sorry. I have been out of town and really busy

upon my return.

The spider web ultrasounds occur in rare

situations when the uterus still has scarring in it from Ashermans. I don’t fully understand this, so I

must ask my peri to explain it more fully.

But basically there are normally two membranes encasing the baby, the

chorion and the amnion, and they are so close together that they are almost

considered as one membrane. But, I think

the inner membrane comes from the embryo and the outer comes from the mother (not

sure on this). Anyway, the membranes never develop

properly because of the scar tissue (I don’t understand this but I will

ask). Then the problem arises when

the inner (Amniotic) membrane peels away from the other membrane (I think it

may burst) and the baby becomes entangled in it. The baby becomes so entangled that

he/she cannot move. If you had an

ultrasound such as this, could you have had Ashermans with the pregnancy? It would explain why your angel was

stillborn. Or maybe it was the

surgery. Anyway, I will speak with

my peri next week and get you a full report in how this happens. Talk to you soon.

HI ,

I have not been able to keep up on a lot of the

posts lately but just

happened to read one and you had written about a scar filled uterus

looking like spider webs when pregnant.

There is one thing that has

been yet unexplained to me which is the fact that

when I was pregnant

with our daughter (who was stillborn) my last

ultrasound showed a

bizarre problem. This was what looked like

our baby tangled in what

looked like a spider web. I remember that

was the least of the

worries as she needed surgery in utero, but it has

bothered me since

and I have never gotten a direct answer. I

have been assuming that I

had AS from the D & C after her birth but now I

am wondering. I

actually had difficulty getting pregnant with that

baby too. So....I

wonder if it had anything to do with that spider

web looking

ultrasound. Now I want to find out!!

What do you think? I think I

am going to make an appointment just to go over it

all again.

Glenda

[Guest guest]

Boy , I truly enjoy reading your posts. Even though I don't have

so many of the incidence' you are posting about, your wealth of

knowledge makes them very stimulating to read. And, just because I

don't seem to have great use for your explanations at this point, I'm

learning so much from you that when I start the process of moving

forward (after our move) with the correction and/or ttcing phase of

this AS stuff, I feel like I have a great basis from which to pull

and understand what is going on inside when I have any different

symptoms. Are you in the medical field or just very interested in the

female body and how AS affects it that you just pour over research?

S.

p.s. Are you just about a week out now from holding YOUR little Angel

[Guest guest]

,

Just one week to go!!! I can't believe that you are almost there. Take it easy and enjoy the last week of your pregnancy. Thanks for keeping us up to date with all that you have gone through. It has been wonderful following your pregnancy. I now look forward to seeing the photos.

Poly

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for your insight. I actually have hardly

thought about that " webbed " ultrasound until I read your post. I

really appreciate you helping so much with info from your dr. It is

very difficult here...as I have bemoaned before. I do not know how I

could have had scarring before the D & C. I had given birth to our 2

children, but without any difficulty or infection. I then had our

still born daughter and then the nasty D & C. So, this would throw in

a whole new twist.

I am very saddened to say also that I have basically only a bit of

spotting even post surgery. This was my second period and it was

basically nonexistent. I guess I am feeling like this is very near

the end of my road with AS... I have an hsg coming up soon so will

see what that says I guess. It is very disheartening. I think that

ending up holding a baby that has died just leaves a feeling of a

emptiness in your family, like somebody is always missing. But I am

thankful in the same breath for the goodness and gift of our other

children. That is the update from me...

Can't wait to hear about your baby soon! What a wonderful time in

your life! I will be thinking and praying...

Glenda

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for your post and in reference to

the post I sent to Glenda, I want to add more to it after I speak with my peri

about it again. To be honest,

his explanation was after a 2-hour consult and I knew I had no scarring in my

uterus, so I didn’t ask as many questions as I usually do. But, now that Glenda saw her angel in a

web like ultrasound, I want to find out more about how this can happen with

Ashermans.

Why am I so interested in all of

this? Well I guess since I was a

little girl I was interested in the human body and how it works. I wanted to be a doctor but then I realized

I didn’t want to be married to a profession (meaning a pager) but to a

husband and to have a family. I majored in biology and chemistry

in college and I now consult in clinical research for the pharmaceutical

industry. My area of

expertise is not in reproduction or the female body, but since I have had so

many years of infertility and then Ashermans I took it on as a hobby. It is so very interesting to me. I wish I could find a company that does

research in female reproduction, then I would be very

happy. Although I have to say

that the company I am working with now has a drug that could be used for

ectopic pregnancies that would be just as effective and safer then the chemo

drug Gwen just took. And there

wouldn’t be a waiting period of 6 months to wash the drug out of the

system. I have placed the idea into

the Medical Director’s head just this week and he seemed interested. So, I am hoping. I wish I could find a company that did

research in stem cell lines that could be used to grow endometrial lining!

Well, I hope you get this move done soon

so you can begin to focus on your AS and fixing it. Yes, I am 1 week from today to have my

c-section. I may try to move it

back 2 days, but the scheduling may not work.

Yesterday I had a terrible day. I was soooooo incredibly tired that

I couldn’t get out of bed and I had Braxton hicks

contractions that increased in frequency for a period of several hours. It all finally subsided, but I was

wondering for awhile what it all meant.

Anyway, I am looking forward to getting this over with. I will keep you informed. Thanks again for your post and good luck

to you!

Re: What???

to

Boy , I truly enjoy reading your posts. Even

though I don't have

so many of the incidence' you are posting about,

your wealth of

knowledge makes them very stimulating to read.

And, just because I

don't seem to have great use for your explanations

at this point, I'm

learning so much from you that when I start the

process of moving

forward (after our move) with the correction

and/or ttcing phase of

this AS stuff, I feel like I have a great basis from

which to pull

and understand what is going on inside when I have

any different

symptoms. Are you in the medical field or just

very interested in the

female body and how AS affects it that you just

pour over research?

S.

p.s. Are you just about a week out now from

holding YOUR little Angel

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[Guest guest]

Hey ,

I didn't actually expect a reply from you given how close your

delivery is to be, but am very glad you did. I kept wondering your

background and now I know. Anyway, interesting you should make a

mention of my moving on with this AS, I actually saw an RE today. The

first time I've seen an RE. What happened was after the HSG in

November I actually started experiences some pretty substantial, and

isolated pain on my left side where I suspected would be my ovary. It

was sporadic and came and went for a day or two so I didn't think

much about it. But, then when I had the quick bleed, 'flash-in-the-

pan' type on January 13, I started to really wonder what was up,

since I was supposedly 100% closed with PROBABLY 100% complete

scarring based on the complete absence of symptoms. Anyway, I knew I

couldn't get to see Dr. Valle until after the move because of

logistics, but I thought I'd track down the dr. who had the most

experience with AS in Cincinnati with the help of my GP and that's

who I saw. I just wanted his opinion, I wanted to talk to a medical

professional with a bit more experience since I've learned so much

more from this group and lo and behold, 31 days after my only bleed I

had the worst pain again on my left side! So good timing. We had a

good conversation and many affirmations of things I've learned from

you ladies. But, he did one other thing that I didn't realize was

possible. He did a vaginal ultrasound in an attempt to see if I was

completely adhesed. He explained if that was the case, we would

simply see a line through the middle of the uterus representing the

site at which the two sides were adhesed. But, if there were pockets

it would be a line with bulbuous areas where the pockets were. And,

it was as easy as just a vaginal ultrasound! Well, it showed the

adhesion at the cervix that extended up the uterus probably 80%, but

at the top was the bulbous area representing the pocket of healthy

endometrium tissue. It was also fluid filled at this point. He also

looked at the ovaries and the left one showed a cyst. Without truly

knowing where I was in my cycle (even though I think I do) he

couldn't be conclusive about the pain as it relates to the cyst, but

felt that ovulation at this point was the culprit...and I agree!!(for

all our gut feel is worth these days, huh?) So it's kind of nice to

have a clearer picture of the extent and so easily obtained. Now,

I'll need to a bit more research to figure out when and where I can

have it corrected based on my situation of our family being in the

transition of the move. But, anyway, just a new bit of information to

ponder when I've had none for a while...and you continue to take care

of yourself!!! I would hate to see you go into TRUE, NO TURNING BACK,

kind of labor (like I did, because I waited too long to acknowledge

my pains)...you need to wait for your scheduled c-section!

Take care,

S

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for your comments about the small cavity they saw on the u/s.

It seemed pretty exciting to me, if nothing else it defined the RE's

recommendation for correction when he saw the fluid filled cavity. No

longer were we talking neccesity of correction based on desire to

have further children, but he was saying it will be necessary to

correct it to alleviate the pocket that will obviously only continue

to trap and hold fluid...UGH!!!

Anyway, one very interesting thing to point out, especially for the

other woman in this group who are just starting this process...No, it

actually wasn't a sonohystogram I had. Because when he told me in

consultation we would be having an u/s I very specifically asked if

that is what he was doing to the point of naming the procedure and

describing the use of saline, etc...He just looked at me like it was

common knowledge this would just simply be an ultrasound! I was still

amazed and couldn't wait to see this work, because literally noone,

either in this group or other healthcare professionals, has offered

this up before. But, it was just that. Granted, it was a vaginal

ultrasound, but that part was no big deal. It was just amazing to be

able to see it so clearly with simply a vaginal ultrasound, but I

really could and he so kindly gave me a picture for my file.

As for him correcting it, I would not go that route. I did tell him

that I was referred to him because I asked my GP for the dr. in

Cincinnati that has seen the most and correct the most AS. He said

yes that would either be him or one other man he mentioned. I then

asked how many he had corrected and the answer was probably about 30

in his 13 years of practice. I told him I thought the number would be

higher given our discussion earlier in the consultation that AS is

not as uncommon as many people may think (which, of course, was no

surprise to me!) To which he replied that really is about all

considering he is talking the severity of mine. He said many of the

ones he has seen are mild enough that they correct with the rush of

the fluid injected into the cavity. But, one point he made actually

mimics your experience. He talked adamently about how important it is

to know " when to say when " . If, during surgery, it's seen that the

doc doing the D & C scraped so hard he even scraped through the basil

layer of the endometrium lining and left nothing but muscle, then it

is time to stop attempting the correction for the very fact you

stated happened to you. At that point he said the risk is too high

you will be unable to avoid perforation of the uterus and in turn

either the bladder or the bowel. So basically you had something as he

outlined; docs tried to correct it unsuccessfully and then you went

to an A list doc and you had successful correction? Boy, that is

interesting? Do you know if your D & C had scraped through the basil

layer (the last layer before the endometrium muscle) of the

endometrium lining? If so, then from what I learned yesterday I think

I would call them miracle workers? Looks like I know what kind of doc

I need to pursue correction with! What would you think the number of

AS corrections Dr. Valle or Dr. Indman have done as compared to this

RE's number of 30...From listening to you ladies I got the idea these

A list docs were doing a lot more than that?

Anyway, time to talk about your other stuff!! My gosh, your story is

a terrible one as it relates to the job and house. I wish I had some

advice to offer, but not sure there is much you can be doing other

that what you have already laid out. I agree, at this point, focusing

on your little miracle is probably the safest way to handle it. She

needs everything you can give her and so does your son and let's face

it, the only thing that really matters in this world are the humans

that we love. At times when things truly seem insurmountable, we

always know if we have nothing else, we can never lose our

family...so we have to protect them with all we've got! Good luck

with all you have on the horizon and try not to spend so much time

worrying about it (easier said than done) so it doesn't have the

satisfaction of driving you NUTS!

Hey, not sure if I have any help to offer, but just had an idea. My

brother-in-law is a contractor in the bay area. His company,

Construction, is always kept busy with work out there. Most of his

contracts are government contracts and I know he has a tremendous

amount of contacts out there. Not sure if he could help because I'm

not sure exactly from what angle you need to attack these different

issues your dealing with right now (i.e. where to get a new location

for your husbands co? how to make the existing location work and

avoid a move...or if that's even an option? and even the matter with

your land and the pipe?) but, I know he does have TONS and TONS of

contacts in so many fields in the bay area, if you can think of any

questions or way he could help I'd be more than happy to call him and

I know he would help in any way he can. Just let me know.

In the meantime, PLEASE TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF, it seems like you have

so-o-o-o much on your plate right now. I know they say He never gives

us more than we can handle, but I also know I've questioned some of

the tests he's thrown at me before...keep that in mind, you WILL get

to the other side. And, I AM SO EXCITED FOR YOUR LITTLE GIRL? Any

names yet?

S

[Guest guest]

S,

I am wondering if this fluid that your doctor is seeing is actually blood from your menses? All the more reason for you to go ahead with the surgery so that it will not cause you endometriosis (if it hasn't already).

You said that your doctor had given you a picture for your file. I wonder if it is possible to forward this to the group or to me so that I can start adding some photos of uterus' affected by ashermans. This way, we can compare the different types of cases? If this is no problem for you, I would love to see it.

Poly