Re: motivation-you mean be-eeks-Selfish?!!

[Guest guest]

" I do not know how the National Health works " --

Kayleigh, I couldn't help laughing at this, as the answer might just be

" nobody does! " , or, indeed, " well, it doesn't " . The former is not true, of

course, as the tasks of administering, maintaining, and delivering the NHS

go on, and the latter isn't either, though it is in a most sorry shape. The

waiting lists for most treatments are a standing joke and cause of misery to

many, some of whom, lucky enough to have the money, will pay for private

treatment instead. The dental side is hopeless (in my more recent

experience) --there's a " second-class subject " experience awaiting those who

use the NHS in the dental surgeries of UK. Few dentists will even see NHS

cases.

The NHS was the crown of post-war Britain and shone like the just reward of

victory over evil as the world moved forward from the hell of the 1930s and

WWII. I and my generation owe a great deal to Aneurin Bevan, the Welsh

politician who brouhght ther NHS into being. So do our seniors, who now end

up fleeced of what they were led to believe were their rights/entitlements

by a world that doesn't care.

See Nye Bevan at Gallery Bouglaf:

http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/queen.html#B

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: motivation-you mean be-eeks- " Selfish " ?!!

>Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 00:55:18 -0000

>

>Hi Kayeleigh

>

>Fewer ppl go private here in the UK, and most health services are

>free. The Personnel departments have nothing like the EAP's which

>seem to be just professional AA recruiters.

>

>While massaging the dx to get reimbursement might be justifiable in

>the mnore austere world of the US, I think the real answer is that

>services should be State provided and be adequate for the problems

>ppl

>face - otherwise a kind of " Inflation " sets in, as well as being

>unfair to the less " creative " therapists and clients.

>

>P.

>

>

> > >Hi Judith

> > >

> > >I never cease to be amazed at the immense power and corruption of

> > >these EAP mafia. It's incredible.

> > >

> > >I hope those fired shrinks were stepper shrinks. The really awful

> > >thing abt the US scene is that it doesnt even help to tell ppl to

>go

> > >to the professionals, as steppism has so taken them over too. How

>do

> > >you fight the bodysnatchers when there are more aliens than ppl?

> > >

> > >As an aside, I know that my old rehab helped a patient scam her

> > >insurance company to have a time in there. They didnt want to

>cover

> > >treatment costs for her tobacco addiction, perhaps because she had

> > >already stopped smoking before she went in! They were talking abt

> > >claiming it as treatment for depression. I'm amazed at how open

>they

> > >were abt that. In fairness, I must say that the gaffer at the top

>of

> > >the tree didnt find out abt until after the event, and he said he

> > >wouldnt have allowed it if he had known, and I believe him.

> > >

> > >P.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> > Before you buy.

>

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[Guest guest]

We were all set for the big changes in the early 90's but they never

came about. I figure it will happen within 10 or 20 years as the

population rapidly ages.

We're already beginning to see the early stages of this in the fight

Veteran's are putting up now for lifelong State sponsored medical

benefits. It was never promised to them by law but their government

rep recruiters sure did promise it to them. The easiest way out for

congress, at the moment, is state sponsored care for all US citizens.

Too bad many still don't see it. That's beltway mentality for you.

Some would say we're already at zero population growth. Others are

saying we'll be at 30 - 40% of the population over age 60 by the year

2030.

Me, I'll wait about 5 years then start investing in companies like

the makers of Depends diapers for adults.

Re: motivation-you mean be-eeks- " Selfish " ?!!

I think the real answer is that services should be State provided and

be adequate for the problems ppl face - otherwise a kind of

" Inflation " sets in, as well as being unfair to the less " creative "

therapists and clients.

P.

[Guest guest]

Forgive me if I gave you the wrong impression -- I think most ethical

professionals who massage the dx are doing it so they can provide adequate

treatment AND get reimbursed, not just to get reimbursed. There is quite a

furor in the US right now about " parity " for mental health services, since so

many insurance plans limit the help that can be rendered.

I cannot say whether a National Health type system would fare well in the US.

Our culture differs from yours, and lots of people oppose such a plan. They

point to the long waiting periods and inadequate treatment that Canadians

experience, for example.

It's a tough question, and much as I have mulled it over, I have no satisfactory

answer.

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>Hi Kayeleigh

>

>Fewer ppl go private here in the UK, and most health services are

>free. The Personnel departments have nothing like the EAP's which

>seem to be just professional AA recruiters.

>

>While massaging the dx to get reimbursement might be justifiable in

>the mnore austere world of the US, I think the real answer is that

>services should be State provided and be adequate for the problems

>ppl

>face - otherwise a kind of " Inflation " sets in, as well as being

>unfair to the less " creative " therapists and clients.

>

>P.

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Before you buy.

[Guest guest]

Yes, you deserve pleasure and happiness in your life. Your treatment centre

was wrong.

kim rh wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback on motivation. the general

> consensus is to do things because they will bring me

> pleasure.

>

> Well that makes sense intellectually, but

> emotionally makes me feel REALLY guilty. I mean, do I

> really DESERVE to feel pleasure? The " treatment "

> centre said " We are not concerned with your comfort "

> and refused to help me when I was bawling my eyes out

> in extreme pain(I don't cry easily or often).

>

> I mean I thought I had to suffer for my sins.

>

> I would really appreciate if people would write back

> and tell me what I need to hear(!).

>

> Thanks a bunch,

>

> Kim

[Guest guest]

I ended up in a treatment center as a " codependent " and man, that was one of the

worst months of my life. They did everything they could to break me down.

Judith Stillwater wrote:

> hehe, I'm not sure what you need to hear -- what would give you the most

> pleasure??? I have an idea that you know they were wrong to treat you the

> way they did. The way I think of the counselors in my employee assistance

> program and the treatment place I went to, is pretty negative. I *see* that

> now, but I didn't then.

>

> I'm not grateful, I'm angry that they took advantage of my vulnerability to

> make a buck off of me and my insurance company. They take no responsibility

> for the emotional wreckage in their wake, not too mention the higher

> insurance premiums we all have to pay, the cost to employers in time missed

> from work for worthless treatment, the cost to families when a parent is

> constantly unavailalbe because their sobriety is a higher priority than

> their family.

>

> ahhh....writing that was a pleasure!

>

> Judith

[Guest guest]

Hi Kayleigh

I knew what you meant abt the massaging, but I still think it isnt

desirable for the reasons I gave. If a system isnt working it should

be reformed.

A culture that can produce the likes of Sumner, Rand and Reagan isnt

one that would embrace an NHS not doubt. Ppl complain abt waiting

lists here too, but I dont believe for a second that the situation

here or in Canada is anything like as bad as it is for the millions

of

Americans without health insurance, for whom its often a question of

whether, not when, they will get the treatment they need. For the

life

of me, I dont see how raising cash to solve a problem can make it

worse. Unfortunately, the American poor is largely disenfranchised

and doesnt email the White House - and is often succesfully

brainwashed into thinking that more, not less, laissez-faire

capitalism is the answer.

P

> >Hi Kayeleigh

> >

> >Fewer ppl go private here in the UK, and most health services are

> >free. The Personnel departments have nothing like the EAP's which

> >seem to be just professional AA recruiters.

> >

> >While massaging the dx to get reimbursement might be justifiable

in

> >the mnore austere world of the US, I think the real answer is that

> >services should be State provided and be adequate for the problems

> >ppl

> >face - otherwise a kind of " Inflation " sets in, as well as being

> >unfair to the less " creative " therapists and clients.

> >

> >P.

> >

>

>

>

> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> Before you buy.

[Guest guest]

Well, Hitler banked on the size of the lie, too,

.

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: motivation-you mean be-eeks- " Selfish " ?!!

>Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:22:06 -0000

>

>Hi Kayleigh

>

>I knew what you meant abt the massaging, but I still think it isnt

>desirable for the reasons I gave. If a system isnt working it should

>be reformed.

>

>A culture that can produce the likes of Sumner, Rand and Reagan isnt

>one that would embrace an NHS not doubt. Ppl complain abt waiting

>lists here too, but I dont believe for a second that the situation

>here or in Canada is anything like as bad as it is for the millions

>of

>Americans without health insurance, for whom its often a question of

>whether, not when, they will get the treatment they need. For the

>life

>of me, I dont see how raising cash to solve a problem can make it

>worse. Unfortunately, the American poor is largely disenfranchised

>and doesnt email the White House - and is often succesfully

>brainwashed into thinking that more, not less, laissez-faire

>capitalism is the answer.

>

>P

>

>

>

> > >Hi Kayeleigh

> > >

> > >Fewer ppl go private here in the UK, and most health services are

> > >free. The Personnel departments have nothing like the EAP's which

> > >seem to be just professional AA recruiters.

> > >

> > >While massaging the dx to get reimbursement might be justifiable

>in

> > >the mnore austere world of the US, I think the real answer is that

> > >services should be State provided and be adequate for the problems

> > >ppl

> > >face - otherwise a kind of " Inflation " sets in, as well as being

> > >unfair to the less " creative " therapists and clients.

> > >

> > >P.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> > Before you buy.

>

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