Re: Check out Peele's web site

June 18, 2000

awesome letter, . I'm not surprised he posted it on the " front page "

of his website!

Judith

> Holy s#@*! I just went to Stanton's web site to do some reading and

> the letter I wrote to him after the A & E program is posted, in its

> entirety, on page one of the site! Never expected that - kind of

> gave me a jolt. Anyway, for those who want to get a little

> background on me, check out http://www.peele.net. Don't know how long

> it will be on there...

>

> Nic

>

_______________________________________________________

Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite

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June 18, 2000

Great letter. Powerfully written.

Charlene

______________________________________________

FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com

Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

June 18, 2000

Yes, I saw it yesterday. It was a great letter, ! I am, however,

surprised to hear that he posted it publically without informing you or asking

your permission... If some of my correspondences with him were publically

posted, I could actually face serious legal repercussions.

~Rita

--------------------------

>Holy s#@*! I just went to Stanton's web site to do some reading and

>the letter I wrote to him after the A & E program is posted, in its

>entirety, on page one of the site! Never expected that - kind of

>gave me a jolt. Anyway, for those who want to get a little

>background on me, check out http://www.peele.net. Don't know how long

>it will be on there...

>

>Nic

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Before you buy.

June 18, 2000

Wonderful letter to Peele !

>From: nicolenoel@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Check out Peele's web site

>Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 16:59:45 -0000

>

>Holy s#@*! I just went to Stanton's web site to do some reading and

>the letter I wrote to him after the A & E program is posted, in its

>entirety, on page one of the site! Never expected that - kind of

>gave me a jolt. Anyway, for those who want to get a little

>background on me, check out http://www.peele.net. Don't know how long

>it will be on there...

>

>Nic

>

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

June 18, 2000

Nic,

I also just read your letter on Peele's web site. Nicely done--bravo, and

well said!

llawrence@...

Check out Peele's web site

>

> Holy s#@*! I just went to Stanton's web site to do some reading and

> the letter I wrote to him after the A & E program is posted, in its

> entirety, on page one of the site! Never expected that - kind of

> gave me a jolt. Anyway, for those who want to get a little

> background on me, check out http://www.peele.net. Don't know how long

> it will be on there...

>

> Nic

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Want to win airfare to Vegas for you and 20 friends, $15,000 and a

> suite at Bellagio for New Year's? Or 2 roundtrip tickets anywhere in

> the U.S. given away daily? Go to Expedia.com for your chance to win...

> http://click./1/5292/2/_/4324/_/961377916/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

June 18, 2000

Rita et al,

This is something I have wondered about for a while. For instance,

earlier today I pasted and posted an article by Schaler on the A & E

board. Should I have gotten his permission first? Also, I contacted

no one when I did my web site. I quoted authors and took paintings

from art sites, etc.

The letter to Peele seems to be different though. I would assume

that when you send a letter to someone's site you could expect it to

be posted, but surely Peele would understand in your case what may be

legally sensitive. I had thought about a mail bag thing for my site

but then thought it might be distracting. I purposely made my site

short to avoid distracting from the focus of the constitutional

issue. I figured being linked to AADeprogramming would suffice for

anyone who wanted to explore things like alternatives. I've now

received about fifty or so letters at my site, the vast majority

being hostile.

I've only had one article published for which I was paid and they did

not tell me they were publishing it even though I had sent it to

them. I was in a drug store at the magazine stand and ended up

seeing my article not knowing it was going to be published. A few

days later I got a check for $125 in the mail. That was way back in

1981.

Tommy

> >Holy s#@*! I just went to Stanton's web site to do some reading

and

> >the letter I wrote to him after the A & E program is posted, in its

> >entirety, on page one of the site! Never expected that - kind of

> >gave me a jolt. Anyway, for those who want to get a little

> >background on me, check out http://www.peele.net. Don't know how

long

> >it will be on there...

> >

> >Nic

> >

>

> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> Before you buy.

June 19, 2000

Tommy,

At the University I work for we teach students to build web pages. From

what I understand there would be a " copywrite infringement " problem if work

is taken that has been previously published (published being the operative

term here) on the web. We tell our students to ask permission (which is

almost always given). However, things like pictures, charts, and graphs

that could be found in any number of places appear to be fair game. But

even then we ask the students to cite the location on the web from which

they came.

About the article that you saw published in a magazine in 1981. This seems

highly unusual to me. It has been my experience that before publishing your

work almost anywhere, you are asked in writing to swear up and down that you

will not allow this work to be published anywhere else without the

permission of the publication you sold your work to. However, I hear that

even this isn't all that difficult to work around if the outcome is

beneficial for all involved.

I hope this helps,

Take care,

llawrence@...

Re: Check out Peele's web site

> Rita et al,

>

> This is something I have wondered about for a while. For instance,

> earlier today I pasted and posted an article by Schaler on the A & E

> board. Should I have gotten his permission first? Also, I contacted

> no one when I did my web site. I quoted authors and took paintings

> from art sites, etc.

>

> The letter to Peele seems to be different though. I would assume

> that when you send a letter to someone's site you could expect it to

> be posted, but surely Peele would understand in your case what may be

> legally sensitive. I had thought about a mail bag thing for my site

> but then thought it might be distracting. I purposely made my site

> short to avoid distracting from the focus of the constitutional

> issue. I figured being linked to AADeprogramming would suffice for

> anyone who wanted to explore things like alternatives. I've now

> received about fifty or so letters at my site, the vast majority

> being hostile.

>

> I've only had one article published for which I was paid and they did

> not tell me they were publishing it even though I had sent it to

> them. I was in a drug store at the magazine stand and ended up

> seeing my article not knowing it was going to be published. A few

> days later I got a check for $125 in the mail. That was way back in

> 1981.

>

> Tommy

>

> > >Holy s#@*! I just went to Stanton's web site to do some reading

> and

> > >the letter I wrote to him after the A & E program is posted, in its

> > >entirety, on page one of the site! Never expected that - kind of

> > >gave me a jolt. Anyway, for those who want to get a little

> > >background on me, check out http://www.peele.net. Don't know how

> long

> > >it will be on there...

> > >

> > >Nic

> > >

> >

> > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> > Before you buy.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:

> http://click./1/5530/2/_/4324/_/961387651/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

June 19, 2000

Good show there Nic. Just read it.

Check out Peele's web site

Holy s#@*! I just went to Stanton's web site to do some reading and

the letter I wrote to him after the A & E program is posted, in its

entirety, on page one of the site! Never expected that - kind of

gave me a jolt. Anyway, for those who want to get a little

background on me, check out http://www.peele.net. Don't know how long

it will be on there...

Nic

June 19, 2000

,

Thanks for the info. That concerns me a bit. Hope I haven't upset

anyone, especially since I admire those who I have quoted. Here is

my web site. Some of those who I have quoted such as Senator Ervin

are desceased. Some I don't know such as Pfeffer (born 1910). I

wrote Jeff Schaler a few weeks back for Szasz's email address and got

a positive response with no mention of any violation. I will write

to Szasz soon. The pictures came from art.com and various military

art sites. Any further suggestions from anyone would be helpful. I

got Apple's permission for her link, and she has included mine. I

contacted no one else such as the U. of VA or Madison Univ.

The article from 1981 was published in Surfer Magazine, Nov. 1981.

Local officials (NC) were considering restricting surfing at certain

times and during certain conditions. I circulated a letter to state

and local officials blasting them for this because surfers had saved

so many lives over the years. I also sent copies to Surfer and

Surfing magazines. Surfing sent me a letter saying they were

interested but wanted me to rewrite it. Surfer published it without

telling me and sent me the $125 check. The article has been

presented to officials in other localities over the years when the

issue has arisen, only a few years ago in Currituck Co. NC. The

owner of Corolla (Currituck Co.) Surf Shop proudly has it on the shop

wall, and tells me it was instrumental in preventing restrictions in

that county.

Tommy

http://www.angelfire.com/journal/forcedaa/index.html

> > > >Holy s#@*! I just went to Stanton's web site to do some

reading

> > and

> > > >the letter I wrote to him after the A & E program is posted, in

its

> > > >entirety, on page one of the site! Never expected that - kind

of

> > > >gave me a jolt. Anyway, for those who want to get a little

> > > >background on me, check out http://www.peele.net. Don't know

how

> > long

> > > >it will be on there...

> > > >

> > > >Nic

> > > >

> > >

> > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> > > Before you buy.

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

------

> > Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:

> > http://click./1/5530/2/_/4324/_/961387651/

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

June 19, 2000

Thanks ,

Very informative. Hope I'm not in trouble.

Tommy

> 10 Big Myths about copyright explained:

> http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

>

> I refer to this article whenever I'm in doubt

> Re: Check out Peele's web site

>

> > Rita et al,

> >

> > This is something I have wondered about for a while. For

instance,

> > earlier today I pasted and posted an article by Schaler on the A & E

> > board. Should I have gotten his permission first? Also, I

> contacted

> > no one when I did my web site. I quoted authors and took

paintings

> > from art sites, etc.

> >

> > Tommy

> >

June 19, 2000

Dear Tommy

Must be a good article to have written. Publishers are a bit of a law unto

themselves in my experience, but at least you got paid. Sorry to hear your

posts are predominantly hostile, though that could be an indication of the

site's impact among the benighted armies of those concerned.

Best wishes,

.

ps -- controversial anti " coganon " at Gallery Bouglaf -- JimK is definitely

not amused (bless 'im):

http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/elegybomb.html

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Check out Peele's web site

>Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 13:36:17 -0000

>

>,

>

>Thanks for the info. That concerns me a bit. Hope I haven't upset

>anyone, especially since I admire those who I have quoted. Here is

>my web site. Some of those who I have quoted such as Senator Ervin

>are desceased. Some I don't know such as Pfeffer (born 1910). I

>wrote Jeff Schaler a few weeks back for Szasz's email address and got

>a positive response with no mention of any violation. I will write

>to Szasz soon. The pictures came from art.com and various military

>art sites. Any further suggestions from anyone would be helpful. I

>got Apple's permission for her link, and she has included mine. I

>contacted no one else such as the U. of VA or Madison Univ.

>

>The article from 1981 was published in Surfer Magazine, Nov. 1981.

>Local officials (NC) were considering restricting surfing at certain

>times and during certain conditions. I circulated a letter to state

>and local officials blasting them for this because surfers had saved

>so many lives over the years. I also sent copies to Surfer and

>Surfing magazines. Surfing sent me a letter saying they were

>interested but wanted me to rewrite it. Surfer published it without

>telling me and sent me the $125 check. The article has been

>presented to officials in other localities over the years when the

>issue has arisen, only a few years ago in Currituck Co. NC. The

>owner of Corolla (Currituck Co.) Surf Shop proudly has it on the shop

>wall, and tells me it was instrumental in preventing restrictions in

>that county.

>

>Tommy

>

>http://www.angelfire.com/journal/forcedaa/index.html

>

> > > > >Holy s#@*! I just went to Stanton's web site to do some

>reading

> > > and

> > > > >the letter I wrote to him after the A & E program is posted, in

>its

> > > > >entirety, on page one of the site! Never expected that - kind

>of

> > > > >gave me a jolt. Anyway, for those who want to get a little

> > > > >background on me, check out http://www.peele.net. Don't know

>how

> > > long

> > > > >it will be on there...

> > > > >

> > > > >Nic

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> > > > Before you buy.

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------

>------

> > > Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:

> > > http://click./1/5530/2/_/4324/_/961387651/

> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------

>------

> > >

>

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

June 19, 2000

Hi Doug,

Actually I've gotten quite used to the hostility, and enjoy the hate

mail. At times I've thought that it might be easier to preach to

cows about the dangers of eating too much grass than to argue with

steppers. Here is an excerpt from the last letter I received (one of

the steppers on the A & E dog fight).

" First of all, AA, no matter who tells you or what court documents

you pull

up, is not a religious organization. If something that was deemed to

be so

by the courts was always correct, then you would not be having this

discussion with me because you are arguing against court mandated

treatment. You can quote whoever you want and I will not belive you

because

I have been a member for some time and do not prescribe to any

organized

religion. By the traditions of Alcoholics anonymous the only

requirement

for membership is a desire to stop drinking. When you are mandated

going

to treatment, once again...you may have gone to a meeting, or you may

have

been somewhere where the used the principles of AA, but you, sir,

where not

at an AA meeting...and I am sure you still just don't get it. "

Tommy

P.S. The first letter my site received was from Jim K. It was short

and very complimentary.

> Dear Tommy

>

> Must be a good article to have written. Publishers are a bit of a

law unto

> themselves in my experience, but at least you got paid. Sorry to

hear your

> posts are predominantly hostile, though that could be an indication

of the

> site's impact among the benighted armies of those concerned.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> .

>

> ps -- controversial anti " coganon " at Gallery Bouglaf -- JimK is

definitely

> not amused (bless 'im):

>

> http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/elegybomb.html

>

June 19, 2000

10 Big Myths about copyright explained:

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

I refer to this article whenever I'm in doubt

Re: Check out Peele's web site

> Rita et al,

>

> This is something I have wondered about for a while. For instance,

> earlier today I pasted and posted an article by Schaler on the A & E

> board. Should I have gotten his permission first? Also, I

contacted

> no one when I did my web site. I quoted authors and took paintings

> from art sites, etc.

>

> Tommy

>

June 19, 2000

Copyright law had changed since 1981. Whereas before, publication was required

before any copyright was required, now writing alone is sufficient. I think you

may find, however, that Stanton has a disclaimer on his website stating that

anything sent to him is fair game. You will also find that posts like this one

belong in the public domain because in effect, we are submitting them to the

public domain when you post them. (See Ken's introductory page on e-groups.)

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>Tommy,

>At the University I work for we teach students to build web pages. From

>what I understand there would be a " copywrite infringement " problem if work

>is taken that has been previously published (published being the operative

>term here) on the web. We tell our students to ask permission (which is

>almost always given). However, things like pictures, charts, and graphs

>that could be found in any number of places appear to be fair game. But

>even then we ask the students to cite the location on the web from which

>they came.

>About the article that you saw published in a magazine in 1981. This seems

>highly unusual to me. It has been my experience that before publishing your

>work almost anywhere, you are asked in writing to swear up and down that you

>will not allow this work to be published anywhere else without the

>permission of the publication you sold your work to. However, I hear that

>even this isn't all that difficult to work around if the outcome is

>beneficial for all involved.

>I hope this helps,

>Take care,

>

>llawrence@...

> Re: Check out Peele's web site

>

>> Rita et al,

>>

>> This is something I have wondered about for a while. For instance,

>> earlier today I pasted and posted an article by Schaler on the A & E

>> board. Should I have gotten his permission first? Also, I contacted

>> no one when I did my web site. I quoted authors and took paintings

>> from art sites, etc.

>>

>> The letter to Peele seems to be different though. I would assume

>> that when you send a letter to someone's site you could expect it to

>> be posted, but surely Peele would understand in your case what may be

>> legally sensitive. I had thought about a mail bag thing for my site

>> but then thought it might be distracting. I purposely made my site

>> short to avoid distracting from the focus of the constitutional

>> issue. I figured being linked to AADeprogramming would suffice for

>> anyone who wanted to explore things like alternatives. I've now

>> received about fifty or so letters at my site, the vast majority

>> being hostile.

>>

>> I've only had one article published for which I was paid and they did

>> not tell me they were publishing it even though I had sent it to

>> them. I was in a drug store at the magazine stand and ended up

>> seeing my article not knowing it was going to be published. A few

>> days later I got a check for $125 in the mail. That was way back in

>> 1981.

>>

>> Tommy

>>

>> > >Holy s#@*! I just went to Stanton's web site to do some reading

>> and

>> > >the letter I wrote to him after the A & E program is posted, in its

>> > >entirety, on page one of the site! Never expected that - kind of

>> > >gave me a jolt. Anyway, for those who want to get a little

>> > >background on me, check out http://www.peele.net. Don't know how

>> long

>> > >it will be on there...

>> > >

>> > >Nic

>> > >

>> >

>> > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

>> > Before you buy.

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:

>> http://click./1/5530/2/_/4324/_/961387651/

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.

>Remember the good 'ol days

>http://click./1/5531/2/_/4324/_/961395994/

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Before you buy.

June 19, 2000

Some post -- seems to have a problem with the possibility of religious

organizations not being always correct, while devoutly denying that AA is

one. Hard to follow, I thought. I don't know what to make of ole Jim.

Yours

.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Check out Peele's web site

>Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:44:53 -0000

>

>Hi Doug,

>

>Actually I've gotten quite used to the hostility, and enjoy the hate

>mail. At times I've thought that it might be easier to preach to

>cows about the dangers of eating too much grass than to argue with

>steppers. Here is an excerpt from the last letter I received (one of

>the steppers on the A & E dog fight).

>

> " First of all, AA, no matter who tells you or what court documents

>you pull

>up, is not a religious organization. If something that was deemed to

>be so

>by the courts was always correct, then you would not be having this

>discussion with me because you are arguing against court mandated

>treatment. You can quote whoever you want and I will not belive you

>because

>I have been a member for some time and do not prescribe to any

>organized

>religion. By the traditions of Alcoholics anonymous the only

>requirement

>for membership is a desire to stop drinking. When you are mandated

>going

>to treatment, once again...you may have gone to a meeting, or you may

>have

>been somewhere where the used the principles of AA, but you, sir,

>where not

>at an AA meeting...and I am sure you still just don't get it. "

>

>Tommy

>

>P.S. The first letter my site received was from Jim K. It was short

>and very complimentary.

>

> > Dear Tommy

> >

> > Must be a good article to have written. Publishers are a bit of a

>law unto

> > themselves in my experience, but at least you got paid. Sorry to

>hear your

> > posts are predominantly hostile, though that could be an indication

>of the

> > site's impact among the benighted armies of those concerned.

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > .

> >

> > ps -- controversial anti " coganon " at Gallery Bouglaf -- JimK is

>definitely

> > not amused (bless 'im):

> >

> > http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/elegybomb.html

> >

>

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

June 19, 2000

Apparently I am wrong about missives posted to the net, but I guess I don't have

a feel for what Ken's notice means. (If anything.)

Sorry if I misled anyone.

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>10 Big Myths about copyright explained:

>http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

>

>I refer to this article whenever I'm in doubt

> Re: Check out Peele's web site

>

>> Rita et al,

>>

>> This is something I have wondered about for a while. For instance,

>> earlier today I pasted and posted an article by Schaler on the A & E

>> board. Should I have gotten his permission first? Also, I

>contacted

>> no one when I did my web site. I quoted authors and took paintings

>> from art sites, etc.

>>

>> Tommy

>>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>beMANY! has a new way to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on

>saving more each month: Our huge buying group gives you Long Distance

>rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!

>http://click./1/3821/2/_/4324/_/961398548/

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Before you buy.

June 19, 2000

> Apparently I am wrong about missives posted to the net, but I guess

I don't have a feel for what Ken's notice means. (If anything.)

>

> Sorry if I misled anyone.

> ---

> Kayleigh

Ken's notice? What notice?

Tommy

June 19, 2000

Tommy

-- that's the very question I was going to ask, but then thought " oh it's

out there somewhere on a message board I haven't got to " . If the notice

concerns me as a member of this group, I, too, would like to read it.

.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Check out Peele's web site

>Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:56:10 -0000

>

> > Apparently I am wrong about missives posted to the net, but I guess

>I don't have a feel for what Ken's notice means. (If anything.)

> >

> > Sorry if I misled anyone.

> > ---

> > Kayleigh

>

>Ken's notice? What notice?

>

>Tommy

>

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

June 19, 2000

At 05:34 PM 6/19/00 -0700, Judith Stillwater wrote:

>From the 12 step free home page on egroups:

>

> " Please bear in mind that any message you send to this list can be copied,

>forwarded, saved, edited, or quoted out of context. Once you send something

>to this list, it is there for anyone to see. There is no guarantee of

>privacy or anonymity on this or any other Internet mailing list. "

>

>I'm pretty sure this is what Kayleigh was referring to.

>

>Judith

Furthermore, this list currently has 223 subscribers. Clearly, the

vast majority have never posted, but all can read the messages.

How this relates to copyright: If one were to do any of the above

things with any of our messages, it probably would be considered a

violation of copyright law (many of our messages could be considered

copyrightable works, and thus copyright law would apply). But the only

reason to copy content here to somewhere else (that I can think of offhand,

and that Ken appears to be referring to) would be out of malice, and the

person doing it would be unlikely to know or care about copyright law.

There have already been two instances of this.

-----

http://listen.to/benbradley

June 19, 2000

Well, thank you, on both counts!

I love my kitty too. Hope she doesn't take up too much bandwidth.

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>One thing I like about this list is that most of the people on it are

>honest enough to admit when they're wrong.

>

>BTW don't know if it makes any difference but whenever I quote you I

>just don't have the heart to cut the kitty.

>

> Re: Re: Check out Peele's web site

>

>The notice that Ken includes in the description of the group, on

>e-groups. Am I wrong about that too? I thought he included

>something saying we should be aware that our opinions could be

>reposted anywhere, etc.

>---

>Kayleigh

>

> Zz

> zZ

> |\ z _,,,---,,_

> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

> '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.

>Remember the good 'ol days

>http://click./1/5531/2/_/4324/_/961464819/

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Before you buy.

June 19, 2000

Yes, I realize the main issue is confidentiality, but somehow I read the

copyright protection into it as well. Just an erroneous assumption on my part.

---

Kayleigh

Zz

zZ

|\ z _,,,---,,_

/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>At 15:17 19/06/00 -0700, you wrote:

>>Apparently I am wrong about missives posted to the net, but I guess I

>>don't have a feel for what Ken's notice means. (If anything.)

>>

>>Sorry if I misled anyone.

>>---

>>Kayleigh

>

>I gave Ken that bit and it actually comes from the equivalent warning

>section on the SMARTREC list's " Guidelines for Posting " message- I just

>borrowed the wording! (How's that for copyright theft?) That bit is just a

>warning to subscribers to not expect their messages to have any real

>confidentiality once they are out there on the net, it isn't a disclaimer

>for copyright purposes. And it is am appropriate warning- some of the less

>principled step diehards are subscribed here and report back to their

>klansmen on what they read here. I've read stuff on newsgroups from this

>list, always selectively quoted.

>

>Joe B.

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Over 1,000 solutions for allergies & asthma-gazoontite.com! Shop now!

>http://click./1/5490/2/_/4324/_/961464984/

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Before you buy.

June 19, 2000

Copyright protection does not cease because the person quoted is deceased. It

also lasts longer now than it did before the Berne Convention. However, many

publications are in the public domain because the copyright has run out. It

used to lapse after 26 years and could be renewed for another 26 by the author

or the author's estate (in the US), but now I think it lasts for 72 years. It

is different for films, as well (or used to be -- I have no clue now).

But as to quotes by Ervin or Szasz, look into the fair use doctrine. The quotes

may be covered by that doctrine. The closest I ever got to the fair use

doctrine was when an attorney in a trial I was participating in copied a

witness's entire doctoral dissertation for the purpose of doing cross. There

was a terrific wrangle about whether it was fair use or not (the copying, not

the cross), but when it became clear that nobody knew what they were talking

about the objection was withdrawn.