Re: Hi Im new here

December 5, 2009

This is a fabulous web page that defines emotional abuse. I found it extremely

helpful for me, because my nada's HF (high functioning) behaviors are not so

obvious or easy to pin down...

http://eqi.org/eabuse1.htm#Types%20of%20Emotional%20Abuse

>

> I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an " incident "

recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive relationship

with her and it was time to say no more.

>

> I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I am very

confused reading the posts.

>

> Whitney

>

December 5, 2009

Thanks for posting this. I only had a min to scan it and would like to read more

on the page. The only thing that I didn't agree with was the following story:

***********************

16 year old goes into his room and locks the door behind him. He locks the

door because his mother and father have been walking in on him and his

girlfriend without knocking. The father tries to come in and finds the door is

locked. He is furious. He bangs on the door. opens it. His father accuses

him of locking the door so he can have sex. As punishment, he takes the door off

the hinges and removes it completely. He says, " This is my house and I won't

have anyone locking the doors on me! "

Later that month, with the door to his bedroom still removed, and his

girlfriend are up late watching TV. His parents go to bed. and his

girlfriend wait till they think it is safe and then sneak downstairs to the

basement, take off all their clothes and start making love. Suddenly the father

comes in and turns on the lights.

Again, needed privacy and his father denied it, while even worse, he

humiliated and shamed him.

******

I don't agree that that is abusive. is only 16 and his parents have rules

in their house--no sex with his girlfriend in their house. I think that is a

fair rule and that is the one that is being disrespecful. His parents

likely don't want to become grandparents and I am sure certainly don't want to

raise another baby.

I agree that children of all ages need space and privacy, but if they are doing

something inappropriate, as minors, they lose that right.

Change the scenario and add drugs into the mix. The father won't let them do

drugs in the house. So the father should allow it because the 16 year old said

so? To me, that is a parent that neglects their children. Kids are not

always going to be happy with our rules and decisions but it is our job to stick

to our guns on the big issues. Even when it means being the " bad guy. "

> >

> > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

" incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive

relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> >

> > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I am very

confused reading the posts.

> >

> > Whitney

> >

>

December 5, 2009

I'm with you regarding that particular example. I don't think its good

parenting to allow or encourage minor teenagers to have sex, or drink alcohol,

or do drugs under any circumstances. In my opinion that is irresponsible

parenting.

When the offspring is out on her own and completely self-supporting, then, that

means she is an adult. Adults are supposed to make their own decisions about

whether to have sex or not, and then take responsibility for the results, such

as the possibility of acquiring stds or becoming pregnant.

But that's just me. I'm old-fashioned, I guess.

-Annie

> > >

> > > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

" incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive

relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> > >

> > > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I am

very confused reading the posts.

> > >

> > > Whitney

> > >

> >

>

December 5, 2009

I'm not sure about this example. Allowing them to have sex would

not be good parenting, but I question the method and whether the

possibility of having sex was really what it was all about.

I think a 16-year-old has the right to expect his parents to

knock on his door before entering, assuming that he hasn't lost

that privilage for misbehavior in the recent past. Locking the

door to stop them from not showing that respect seems like an

understandable reaction to me. If the father had reason to think

that and his girlfriend were having sex or would be

tempted to have sex, not allowing them to be alone in the

bedroom with the door closed would be a reasonable rule. His

actions afterward certainly showed that he couldn't be trusted

not to have sex. This example doesn't say that the two of them

were in the room when the father found the door locked though.

It says went into his room and locked the door. If the

girlfriend isn't there, then they aren't having sex behind the

locked door. In general, not allowing a boy that age to have

privacy at all does seem abusive to me but past behavior may

have given the father reason for doing something that wouldn't

otherwise have been acceptable. In my opinion, removing the lock

would have been a better choice than removing the door, along

with forbidding the two teens from being alone together. (Two

teens determined to have sex are going to have it. Doors and

locks or no doors and locks.) The thing that raises a red flag

with me here is that the father sounds more concerned about

having power - the house is his and no one is going to lock

doors on him - rather than upset about what was actually

happening in the room. If removing the door was about being

angry and controlling rather than about discipline, that's a

problem. Whether or not something is emotional abuse sometimes

depends on the emotions involved on both sides and this may

cross that line or it may be an example of a thoroughly

exasperated father being driven to take extreme action by a

disobedient son.

I think having private space to feel secure in is important to

young people, especially during the teen years when they may

feel especially vulnerable. I will note that my opinion of this

is very much colored by the fact that up until the point where

she got kicked out of our house my nada had a habit of sneaking

into my bedroom either while I was asleep or when I wasn't home

to take whatever she wanted to take. Stealing books from me has

been habitual with her whenever she's had the opportunity ever

since I got old enough to read adult books and knocking on doors

has never been something she concerns herself with. (She doesn't

expect me to knock on the door before coming in when I visit her

either.)

At 02:01 PM 12/05/2009 realmom2two wrote:

>Thanks for posting this. I only had a min to scan it and would

>like to read more on the page. The only thing that I didn't

>agree with was the following story:

>

>***********************

>16 year old goes into his room and locks the door behind

>him. He locks the door because his mother and father have been

>walking in on him and his girlfriend without knocking. The

>father tries to come in and finds the door is locked. He is

>furious. He bangs on the door. opens it. His father

>accuses him of locking the door so he can have sex. As

>punishment, he takes the door off the hinges and removes it

>completely. He says, " This is my house and I won't have anyone

>locking the doors on me! "

>Later that month, with the door to his bedroom still removed,

> and his girlfriend are up late watching TV. His parents

>go to bed. and his girlfriend wait till they think it is

>safe and then sneak downstairs to the basement, take off all

>their clothes and start making love. Suddenly the father comes

>in and turns on the lights.

>

>Again, needed privacy and his father denied it, while

>even worse, he humiliated and shamed him.

>

>******

>I don't agree that that is abusive. is only 16 and his

>parents have rules in their house--no sex with his girlfriend

>in their house. I think that is a fair rule and that is

>the one that is being disrespecful. His parents likely don't

>want to become grandparents and I am sure certainly don't want

>to raise another baby.

>

>I agree that children of all ages need space and privacy, but

>if they are doing something inappropriate, as minors, they lose

>that right.

>

>Change the scenario and add drugs into the mix. The father

>won't let them do drugs in the house. So the father should

>allow it because the 16 year old said so? To me, that is a

>parent that neglects their children. Kids are not always going

>to be happy with our rules and decisions but it is our job to

>stick to our guns on the big issues. Even when it means being

>the " bad guy. "

--

Katrina

December 5, 2009

I was iffy on that example as well. I think what the author is trying to say,

is that taking the door off is an overreaction, and an invasion of privacy. The

parent, in this case, did not have a rule that the door could not be closed. My

mother's rule was that the door couldn't be closed when a boy was over, and that

was understandable.

> > > >

> > > > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

" incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive

relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> > > >

> > > > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I am

very confused reading the posts.

> > > >

> > > > Whitney

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

December 5, 2009

Deanna, you've often offered your viewpoint on my posts before. I'm interested

to know you're thoughts on my present crisis (re: argument with nada).

Many thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

" incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive

relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I

am very confused reading the posts.

> > > > >

> > > > > Whitney

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

December 5, 2009

I agree. This isn't the best example in the world as you can argue that the

parent is simply being a parent but...

1. You don't need to remove the door...you can remove the lock.

2. You don't need to barge in on the lusty teenagers in the middle of the act.

You can give them fair warning that you are outside the door at the top of the

stairs whatever and they need to put their clothes on and meet you in the

kitchen so you can have a nice conversation about raging teen age hormones,

condoms, birth control, etc. etc.

Barging in on them like that is shaming and disrespectful. Sure...you should

have a " no sex under my roof " rule cause they're your kids but you dont have to

shame them when they break that rule. In my opinion these are examples of lazy

parenting (I dont want to deal with testing privacy boundaries in regards to

the door and I want to shame you and make you feel bad for having sex). This

example just smarts to me of a parent that is just trying to control his childs

behavior instead of teaching his child how to be a responsible person.

In any event...not the best example in the world.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

" incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive

relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I

am very confused reading the posts.

> > > > >

> > > > > Whitney

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

December 5, 2009

Yes, I think that perhaps the point is that *extremism* is abusive.

Personality-disordered parents don't seem to be capable of making balanced,

rational, common-sense, responsible decisions about their kids. Seems they

don't have the basic skills necessary to be " good enough " parents.

Instead the " waifs " and " hermits " neglect their parental duties and let their

kids grow up wild, or turn them into little adults whose job is to take care of

mommy. The " queens " and " witches " want to control everything about their child,

allowing no privacy, allowing no natural development toward maturity and

self-determination at all, turning their kids into robots or emotional cripples.

Extremes in any direction are by definition unbalanced, and unhealthy

IMO.

-Annie

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

" incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive

relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I

am very confused reading the posts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Whitney

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

December 5, 2009

Permit me to gently say Nonsense, and disagree.

Of COURSE it was abuse, clearly, meticulous, planned abuse.

Premise, 16 year olds are still minors and should not be permitted to

have sex with parents approval. Agreed. So, as parents, you don t permit

then in a bedroom with the door closed. Or you permit them in public

areas only, like kitchen or living room.

Premise, he needed privacy. Of course he does, and should be able to

have it in his room. You simply dont permit it in a situation where a 16

yo boy and a 16 yo girl are locked in privately together. Why? BECAUSE

THEY ARE A 16 YO BOY AND A 16 YO GIRL.

But to wait until you have permitted a situation, ie, boy and girl

locked in a bedroom and bang on the door, then remove the door, was the

emotional reaction of a 4 year old. Which of course would be typical for

a BP.

Second situation, with door removed ( Clearly he WAS removing it to have

sex, right?) the horny 16 yo s move to another location and get naked

and begin having sex. And dad charges in and catches them. Intrusive,

but the ADULT there, SHOULD have thought it out, and said, lets see, if

I go to bed and leave a horny 16 year old boy up with his 16 yo

girlfriend, what are the odds of hanky panky.

HELLO??? Anybody awake here? , its late now, so say goodnight to

your girlfriend. Do you need for us to drive her home or does she have a

way to get there. Lets try another look at it. is 5. I leave my

pistol on the table and say, Now this is MY home and I wont have anyone

picking up my pistol.

Dad was stupid for not supervising correctly, allowing situations

that he did not agree with or permit, then abusive to react in the way

that he did.

That, my friends, is not parenting, it is controlling. The former is a

hard full time job, not for wimps. The latter is a mental aberration.

Finally, what that dad did is just typical of my own nada when I was at

home. Alternately too permissive, then too restrictive, intrusive, (

HELLO? Permit a situation , over and over, where your son might be

having sex, then bang on doors, or tip toe down and turn on lights. Was

he looking for a peep show? Why, yes, he was. )

That is just typical PD behavior. It was not effective, loving

parenting.

Doug

> > >

> > > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

" incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally

abusive relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> > >

> > > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I

am very confused reading the posts.

> > >

> > > Whitney

> > >

> >

>

December 5, 2009

Hey Whitney,

I am a recent addition to this group too.

I was told that nada refers to a BP mom. Fada refers to a BP dad.

Welcome.

>

> I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an " incident "

recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive relationship

with her and it was time to say no more.

>

> I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I am very

confused reading the posts.

>

> Whitney

>

December 5, 2009

Thank you!

It's weird- my mom is certainly high functioning, most of the time, but the

crazy rages over nothing are just tearing the fabric of our relationship apart,

and I have just had enough.

It's heartbreaking on some levels- my husband, in a kind way, said it's sort of

like not having a mom really- but as long as I can't tell her anything about our

lives without being afraid she'll go off the handle, well, that's a big problem

for me. And i've gotten to a point where I am just not sure spending extended

time with her on family vacations is anything I want to subject myself or my

kids to anymore- they are starting to really not like her, and that's unpleasant

all the way around.

Whitney

> >

> > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

" incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive

relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> >

> > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I am very

confused reading the posts.

> >

> > Whitney

> >

>

December 5, 2009

Whitney,

Your husband made a very good point when he said it was like not

having a mom. Emotionally, having a nada really is akin to not

having a mom. BPD just doesn't let their brains work in the way

that a parent should think. Normal parents have feelings for

their children that I don't believe our nadas are capable of. To

love someone else, you have to be capable of caring enough to

make sacrifices for someone else. I don't believe they can do

that. They often claim to feel love, but in my experience their

idea of love has more to do with possession and control of the

other person.

At 08:04 PM 12/05/2009 wsh1266 wrote:

>Thank you!

>

>It's weird- my mom is certainly high functioning, most of the

>time, but the crazy rages over nothing are just tearing the

>fabric of our relationship apart, and I have just had enough.

>

>It's heartbreaking on some levels- my husband, in a kind way,

>said it's sort of like not having a mom really- but as long as

>I can't tell her anything about our lives without being afraid

>she'll go off the handle, well, that's a big problem for

>me. And i've gotten to a point where I am just not sure

>spending extended time with her on family vacations is anything

>I want to subject myself or my kids to anymore- they are

>starting to really not like her, and that's unpleasant all the

>way around.

>

>Whitney

--

Katrina

December 5, 2009

It's the control and childish tantrums that drive me mad, and the feeling that

when she leaves, there's been an exorcism in the house. I don't want to feel

this way about my mom, but she is so emotionally exhausting.

She's been married three times (and now I am starting to understand that better)

but her defensiveness and making it difficult for us as kids to have contact

with her exes has been hard- I felt like I really let my stepfather down, but

her temper always made me so scared. Now that I am no longer afraid of my own

shadow, I have guilt over that, and now my stepfather has passed, there's extra

guilt involved.

Mostly I am starting to get angry that I let her get in my way for so long, and

I'm determined to make that stop.

Whitney

>

> >Thank you!

> >

> >It's weird- my mom is certainly high functioning, most of the

> >time, but the crazy rages over nothing are just tearing the

> >fabric of our relationship apart, and I have just had enough.

> >

> >It's heartbreaking on some levels- my husband, in a kind way,

> >said it's sort of like not having a mom really- but as long as

> >I can't tell her anything about our lives without being afraid

> >she'll go off the handle, well, that's a big problem for

> >me. And i've gotten to a point where I am just not sure

> >spending extended time with her on family vacations is anything

> >I want to subject myself or my kids to anymore- they are

> >starting to really not like her, and that's unpleasant all the

> >way around.

> >

> >Whitney

>

> --

> Katrina

>

December 5, 2009

Whitney,

I know what you mean. I've been known to call my nada an

emotional vampire. Dealing with her sometimes takes all the

emotional energy I have and then some, leaving me feeling

utterly drained after spending just an hour or two with her. I

won't allow her in my home because I don't want the feelings

that she brings with her here as well as because I don't want to

hear her comments on how I live or what I should change.

It sounds like you are reaching a healthier place emotionally.

Using your anger to help fuel your determination to change

things and make that stop sounds like a positive use of anger.

At 08:24 PM 12/05/2009 wsh1266 wrote:

>It's the control and childish tantrums that drive me mad, and

>the feeling that when she leaves, there's been an exorcism in

>the house. I don't want to feel this way about my mom, but she

>is so emotionally exhausting.

>She's been married three times (and now I am starting to

>understand that better) but her defensiveness and making it

>difficult for us as kids to have contact with her exes has been

>hard- I felt like I really let my stepfather down, but her

>temper always made me so scared. Now that I am no longer

>afraid of my own shadow, I have guilt over that, and now my

>stepfather has passed, there's extra guilt involved.

>Mostly I am starting to get angry that I let her get in my way

>for so long, and I'm determined to make that stop.

>

>Whitney

--

Katrina

December 5, 2009

As usual, very well put, Doug. You have described the difference between

abnormal, bad pd parenting and rational, normal, good parenting very clearly and

succinctly.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

> " incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally

> abusive relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> > > >

> > > > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I

> am very confused reading the posts.

> > > >

> > > > Whitney

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

December 5, 2009

Thank you. That's flattering. Will do.

Deanna

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

" incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive

relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I

am very confused reading the posts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Whitney

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

December 6, 2009

Ah yes Doug, you did explain this perfectly. You guys are so good at putting

difficult things into words. Although I didn't know how to say all of that, I

do have an example of my nada I sometimes use to try to explain her to people,

and it is similar.

When I was in high school, we had a large dog. My nada would throw chicken

bones and other bits of meatstuff into the garbage, which sat on the end of the

kitchen island. The top of that trash was right at this dog's nose level.

Inevitably, he would reach in and grab some meat. She would yell at him that he

was bad and scold him. One time, I said " Why don't you put the trash under the

sink where he can't reach it? " She would say something about how it was her

house and the dog needed to obey her rules.

IT WAS SUCH A SIMPLE ANSWER TO HER PROBLEM AND SHE WOULDN'T DO IT!

The dog *was not BAD*. He was just being a dog. She was setting him up to fail

and then berating him for it.

> > > >

> > > > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

> " incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally

> abusive relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> > > >

> > > > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I

> am very confused reading the posts.

> > > >

> > > > Whitney

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

December 6, 2009

Whitney,

I'm a new edition too. My mother was BPD, and she also had breast cancer for 10

years of my life which required me to caref ro her in a more ways than one. She

died 5 years ago, but I find that you get a lot of emotional validation here.

When you're growing up as a kid, and someone tells you " that didn't happen "

you're more inclinded to believe them.

>

> >

> > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

" incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally abusive

relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> >

> > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I am very

confused reading the posts.

> >

> > Whitney

> >

>

December 7, 2009

Some input from a parent of an actual, live 16 year old boy... as his mom, my

" prime directive " is to get him to adulthood as a fine young man with many

options for his future. That means that while he is a minor in my care, I have

to stand between him and life-threatening dangers to his well-being - including

those he would face if he were involved in drugs, crime, or a teenage pregnancy.

He gets exactly as much freedom as he is ready to handle. As he matures and

proves himself to be a responsible, ethical young man, I loosen the reins.

Doug's got it right about the " proper parenting approach " - OF COURSE you don't

let a 16 year old couple be alone in a bedroom - with the door open OR closed.

Their relationship is such that they are limited to the " public rooms " of the

home, with LOTS of parental travel back and forth, and the certain knowledge

that Mom or Dad could be overhearing what is said at any time.

And if the parents are going to bed, it is long past time for the girlfriend to

go home. Providing her a safe ride, calling her parents to let them know she's

on her way, and then scheduling a long-overdue phone call to her folks (to 'get

acquainted' and be sure you're all on the same page as to expectations for

teenage behavior) is all proactive, preventative parenting.

The scenario is quite serious, because the stakes are extremely high - anything

dealing with sex, drugs, or crime has to be taken seriously, because the

repercussions would be life-altering for everybody involved, including the

parents. Mom and Dad would be idiots to turn a blind eye to their son's

misbehavior in the name of " giving him privacy. " He has no RIGHT to privacy as

long as he's a minor in their home. However, they may GIVE him privacy as long

as he demonstrates that he will not abuse that privilege.

And as to sneaking off and having sex elsewhere - yes, that's a possibility.

That's why you don't give a kid that age a permanent set of car keys, and you

insist on knowing where he's going, and who'll be there, and whether there will

be responsible adults around. If you don't trust his actions, you get phone

numbers, you call other parents, you do whatever you have to so that he will be

able to graduate from high school unencumbered by a criminal record, a drug

habit, or a baby. Again - his behavior dictates how loose the reins are.

So the parents are absolutely right to keep the kids on the straight and narrow

by any means necessary - BUT - the means used should be on a graduated scale.

The first time they do something sneaky or dangerous, you react accordingly. If

they prove again that they can't be trusted, you escalate the consequences.

Removing the door to his room is somewhere toward the " middle to more extreme "

end of the scale. I'd start by prohibiting any coed activity in his room at all

- they can study or watch TV or play video games in the den. At their age, they

don't need privacy when they're together. However, he does need some privacy

when he's alone. For that reason, I think a " knock, then enter " policy is

appropriate, unless and until the boy proves that he's up to no good when he's

alone in his room. If drug use is suspected, or he's hiding shoplifted

contraband in there, then his privilege of privacy disappears until he regains

his parents' trust. As with all consequences, the punishment should be directly

related to, and in direct ratio to, the offense.

> > > >

> > > > I am pretty sure I have grown up with a Mom who has BPD- we had an

> " incident " recently that totally convinced me I was in an emotionally

> abusive relationship with her and it was time to say no more.

> > > >

> > > > I have a few quick questions- Waht does NADA and FADA stand for? I

> am very confused reading the posts.

> > > >

> > > > Whitney

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

December 7, 2009

Big virtual high-five to you, )))))))))SMAK!((((((((( You are the kind of

parent every child should have. A big " ditto " from me for both your post and

Doug's regarding what responsible, mentally healthy, rational, adult, wise and

compassionate parenting should look like.

-Annie

>

> Some input from a parent of an actual, live 16 year old boy... as his mom, my

" prime directive " is to get him to adulthood as a fine young man with many

options for his future. That means that while he is a minor in my care, I have

to stand between him and life-threatening dangers to his well-being - including

those he would face if he were involved in drugs, crime, or a teenage pregnancy.

He gets exactly as much freedom as he is ready to handle. As he matures and

proves himself to be a responsible, ethical young man, I loosen the reins.

>

> Doug's got it right about the " proper parenting approach " - OF COURSE you

don't let a 16 year old couple be alone in a bedroom - with the door open OR

closed. Their relationship is such that they are limited to the " public rooms "

of the home, with LOTS of parental travel back and forth, and the certain

knowledge that Mom or Dad could be overhearing what is said at any time.

>

> And if the parents are going to bed, it is long past time for the girlfriend

to go home. Providing her a safe ride, calling her parents to let them know

she's on her way, and then scheduling a long-overdue phone call to her folks (to

'get acquainted' and be sure you're all on the same page as to expectations for

teenage behavior) is all proactive, preventative parenting.

>

> The scenario is quite serious, because the stakes are extremely high -

anything dealing with sex, drugs, or crime has to be taken seriously, because

the repercussions would be life-altering for everybody involved, including the

parents. Mom and Dad would be idiots to turn a blind eye to their son's

misbehavior in the name of " giving him privacy. " He has no RIGHT to privacy as

long as he's a minor in their home. However, they may GIVE him privacy as long

as he demonstrates that he will not abuse that privilege.

>

> And as to sneaking off and having sex elsewhere - yes, that's a possibility.

That's why you don't give a kid that age a permanent set of car keys, and you

insist on knowing where he's going, and who'll be there, and whether there will

be responsible adults around. If you don't trust his actions, you get phone

numbers, you call other parents, you do whatever you have to so that he will be

able to graduate from high school unencumbered by a criminal record, a drug

habit, or a baby. Again - his behavior dictates how loose the reins are.

>

> So the parents are absolutely right to keep the kids on the straight and

narrow by any means necessary - BUT - the means used should be on a graduated

scale. The first time they do something sneaky or dangerous, you react

accordingly. If they prove again that they can't be trusted, you escalate the

consequences. Removing the door to his room is somewhere toward the " middle to

more extreme " end of the scale. I'd start by prohibiting any coed activity in

his room at all - they can study or watch TV or play video games in the den. At

their age, they don't need privacy when they're together. However, he does need

some privacy when he's alone. For that reason, I think a " knock, then enter "

policy is appropriate, unless and until the boy proves that he's up to no good

when he's alone in his room. If drug use is suspected, or he's hiding

shoplifted contraband in there, then his privilege of privacy disappears until

he regains his parents' trust. As with all consequences, the punishment should

be directly related to, and in direct ratio to, the offense.

>

December 7, 2009

Annie - Thanks! Parenting is not for the faint of heart. I assure you, my

parenting approach is colored by seeing the " results " of lame-brained,

weak-willed parenting in the FOO. Every time one of the " cousins " went to jail,

ran off with a boyfriend and came home pregnant, climbed out the window in the

middle of the night and stole the car - it made my resolve even stronger. My

son, poor kid, has to live with the fallout of having a full set of living

cautionary tales in the family. (But he doesn't seem to be suffering too much.)

> >

> > Some input from a parent of an actual, live 16 year old boy... as his mom,

my " prime directive " is to get him to adulthood as a fine young man with many

options for his future. That means that while he is a minor in my care, I have

to stand between him and life-threatening dangers to his well-being - including

those he would face if he were involved in drugs, crime, or a teenage pregnancy.

He gets exactly as much freedom as he is ready to handle. As he matures and

proves himself to be a responsible, ethical young man, I loosen the reins.

> >

> > Doug's got it right about the " proper parenting approach " - OF COURSE you

don't let a 16 year old couple be alone in a bedroom - with the door open OR

closed. Their relationship is such that they are limited to the " public rooms "

of the home, with LOTS of parental travel back and forth, and the certain

knowledge that Mom or Dad could be overhearing what is said at any time.

> >

> > And if the parents are going to bed, it is long past time for the girlfriend

to go home. Providing her a safe ride, calling her parents to let them know

she's on her way, and then scheduling a long-overdue phone call to her folks (to

'get acquainted' and be sure you're all on the same page as to expectations for

teenage behavior) is all proactive, preventative parenting.

> >

> > The scenario is quite serious, because the stakes are extremely high -

anything dealing with sex, drugs, or crime has to be taken seriously, because

the repercussions would be life-altering for everybody involved, including the

parents. Mom and Dad would be idiots to turn a blind eye to their son's

misbehavior in the name of " giving him privacy. " He has no RIGHT to privacy as

long as he's a minor in their home. However, they may GIVE him privacy as long

as he demonstrates that he will not abuse that privilege.

> >

> > And as to sneaking off and having sex elsewhere - yes, that's a possibility.

That's why you don't give a kid that age a permanent set of car keys, and you

insist on knowing where he's going, and who'll be there, and whether there will

be responsible adults around. If you don't trust his actions, you get phone

numbers, you call other parents, you do whatever you have to so that he will be

able to graduate from high school unencumbered by a criminal record, a drug

habit, or a baby. Again - his behavior dictates how loose the reins are.

> >

> > So the parents are absolutely right to keep the kids on the straight and