Re: Second-guessing myself

[Guest guest]

I know my nada would not like a charitable contribution in her name in lieu

of a gift...it was tried one year...and she was livid ( she's always told us

it's not the gift, but the thought, but she never practiced what she

preached) and my brother ( her favorite at that! Imagine what she'd be

like if one of the rest of us did it!!) did this, and she complained for

years...he gave to the " wrong " charity, one she did not support or agree

with ( nada is very opinionated) and had told me many times what a lousy and

" cheap " gift it was...because he didn't have to put any thought into it

Jackie

I will send my nada a Christmas card, but I'm debating whether to let her

know that in lieu of a gift (which she never likes, there's usually

something wrong with any gift I give her. She never used some gift cards

(for a spa treatment) I've given her, even) I will make a charitable

contribution in her name.

I was about to do that when it struck me that she might take that as me

wishing she were dead? Sometimes people do that when they send condolence

cards: they indicate that they've made a contribution to the deceased's

favorite charity in lieu of flowers.

Maybe its just safer to send the card, period, and skip any attempt at a

gift.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

Annie,

You're overthinking this... as KO's tend to do... when we're trying to figure

out how to make THEM not be THEM... even temporarily.

STOP!

Send her a card... period. Any gift will be disliked and any contribution will

be " loaded. "

It's not hard or complicated... you're just pre-feeling her

angst/anger/dislike/etc.

You're above that... let yourself breathe!

Lynnette

>

> I will send my nada a Christmas card, but I'm debating whether to let her know

that in lieu of a gift (which she never likes, there's usually something wrong

with any gift I give her. She never used some gift cards (for a spa treatment)

I've given her, even) I will make a charitable contribution in her name.

>

> I was about to do that when it struck me that she might take that as me

wishing she were dead? Sometimes people do that when they send condolence cards:

they indicate that they've made a contribution to the deceased's favorite

charity in lieu of flowers.

>

> Maybe its just safer to send the card, period, and skip any attempt at a gift.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

I think you should ask what the reason for making an attempt at

a gift would be. Generally, the idea is to make the person

you're giving the gift to happy. Since doing that is often

impossible with a nada, skipping any attempt at gift-giving

might be best. Then again, skipping the gift-giving might cause

an explosion from her too. If you go with the gift-giving, I

wouldn't devote a lot of time to thinking about how she's going

to react. If she wants to react badly, she's going to react

badly with one excuse or another.

I usually get something relatively inexpensive for my nada. When

I'm lucky, I can get her to ask for something specific so that I

can point out to her that I got her what she asked for if she

acts unappreciative. Sometimes I can manipulate her into asking

for what I intend to give her, making her think that it was her

idea to ask for it. She is a lot less likely to find fault with

a gift if she thinks the it was her own idea.

At 01:39 PM 12/08/2009 anuria67854 wrote:

>I will send my nada a Christmas card, but I'm debating whether

>to let her know that in lieu of a gift (which she never likes,

>there's usually something wrong with any gift I give her. She

>never used some gift cards (for a spa treatment) I've given

>her, even) I will make a charitable contribution in her name.

>

>I was about to do that when it struck me that she might take

>that as me wishing she were dead? Sometimes people do that when

>they send condolence cards: they indicate that they've made a

>contribution to the deceased's favorite charity in lieu of

>flowers.

>

>Maybe its just safer to send the card, period, and skip any

>attempt at a gift.

>

>-Annie

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

You're right; I was over-thinking it. Card, it is. Period.

Thanks!

-Annie

> >

> > I will send my nada a Christmas card, but I'm debating whether to let her

know that in lieu of a gift (which she never likes, there's usually something

wrong with any gift I give her. She never used some gift cards (for a spa

treatment) I've given her, even) I will make a charitable contribution in her

name.

> >

> > I was about to do that when it struck me that she might take that as me

wishing she were dead? Sometimes people do that when they send condolence cards:

they indicate that they've made a contribution to the deceased's favorite

charity in lieu of flowers.

> >

> > Maybe its just safer to send the card, period, and skip any attempt at a

gift.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie - I've been doing the " what to get Nada this year " thing myself, the last

few days. Since my mom has blown all her money, I send her a Walmart card. She

can always use it for groceries. Everybody needs milk or toilet paper

eventually. If she doesn't need it for basic necessities, she can buy herself

some perfume or lotion. I know she'll complain. But I don't care - she'd

complain about whatever I chose for her. She has a store near her, I have a

store near me, and rather than worry about it I can just pick up a card next

time I'm buying scouring powder or shampoo. Problem solved.

So rather than feel guilty about a " living memorial " (oh, I can just see her

face...) maybe you can get her a truly basic gift card from a local grocery or

chain store - and be done with it.

>

> I will send my nada a Christmas card, but I'm debating whether to let her know

that in lieu of a gift (which she never likes, there's usually something wrong

with any gift I give her. She never used some gift cards (for a spa treatment)

I've given her, even) I will make a charitable contribution in her name.

>

> I was about to do that when it struck me that she might take that as me

wishing she were dead? Sometimes people do that when they send condolence cards:

they indicate that they've made a contribution to the deceased's favorite

charity in lieu of flowers.

>

> Maybe its just safer to send the card, period, and skip any attempt at a gift.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

My nada would have a fit if I did that. She's morally opposed to

WalMart. I have a hard time keeping track of what she's morally

opposed to at any given time. I think that's another area where

I'm expected to be a mind-reader. She's quite capable of being

morally opposed to one company for something someone has told

her they do wrong while happily patronizing other companies that

do the same thing if no one has pointed out that they do it too.

She doesn't even bother checking to find out if whatever she's

been told is the truth either. I think she enjoys the good

feeling that she gets from thinking she's morally superior to

the people who patronize the places she's opposed to.

At 07:51 PM 12/08/2009 shirleyspawn wrote:

>Annie - I've been doing the " what to get Nada this year " thing

>myself, the last few days. Since my mom has blown all her

>money, I send her a Walmart card. She can always use it for

>groceries. Everybody needs milk or toilet paper

>eventually. If she doesn't need it for basic necessities, she

>can buy herself some perfume or lotion. I know she'll

>complain. But I don't care - she'd complain about whatever I

>chose for her. She has a store near her, I have a store near

>me, and rather than worry about it I can just pick up a card

>next time I'm buying scouring powder or shampoo. Problem

>solved.

>

>So rather than feel guilty about a " living memorial " (oh, I can

>just see her face...) maybe you can get her a truly basic gift

>card from a local grocery or chain store - and be done with it.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Why not just instead give the giftcard to someone who really needs it who would

be appreciative?

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tue, December 8, 2009 8:00:15 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Second-guessing myself

My nada would have a fit if I did that. She's morally opposed to

WalMart. I have a hard time keeping track of what she's morally

opposed to at any given time. I think that's another area where

I'm expected to be a mind-reader. She's quite capable of being

morally opposed to one company for something someone has told

her they do wrong while happily patronizing other companies that

do the same thing if no one has pointed out that they do it too.

She doesn't even bother checking to find out if whatever she's

been told is the truth either. I think she enjoys the good

feeling that she gets from thinking she's morally superior to

the people who patronize the places she's opposed to.

At 07:51 PM 12/08/2009 shirleyspawn wrote:

>Annie - I've been doing the " what to get Nada this year " thing

>myself, the last few days. Since my mom has blown all her

>money, I send her a Walmart card. She can always use it for

>groceries. Everybody needs milk or toilet paper

>eventually. If she doesn't need it for basic necessities, she

>can buy herself some perfume or lotion. I know she'll

>complain. But I don't care - she'd complain about whatever I

>chose for her. She has a store near her, I have a store near

>me, and rather than worry about it I can just pick up a card

>next time I'm buying scouring powder or shampoo. Problem

>solved.

>

>So rather than feel guilty about a " living memorial " (oh, I can

>just see her face...) maybe you can get her a truly basic gift

>card from a local grocery or chain store - and be done with it.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Okey-dokey, then the " living memorial " it is! (Or how about a subscription to

Psychology Today? Yuk, yuk.)

A " nada-safe " gift card could be from a large grocery chain near Nada's house,

or a coupon for an oil change, or anything else that is basic and inevitable.

If Nada doesn't like it, she can pass it on to a shelter or donate it to someone

who needs it (and then she can feel smug and superior). Whatever. The main

thing is, I'm not going to sit here and stew about finding a " perfect gift " for

somebody who won't appreciate it. I've got other stuff to do.

[Guest guest]

All YOu guys are right; its a no-win situation not worth stewing over. I've

given her department-store gift cards in the past and she complains that those

are so " impersonal. " I can't win.

Just a card conveying holiday greetings will be it, then.

-Annie

>

> Okey-dokey, then the " living memorial " it is! (Or how about a subscription to

Psychology Today? Yuk, yuk.)

>

> A " nada-safe " gift card could be from a large grocery chain near Nada's house,

or a coupon for an oil change, or anything else that is basic and inevitable.

If Nada doesn't like it, she can pass it on to a shelter or donate it to someone

who needs it (and then she can feel smug and superior). Whatever. The main

thing is, I'm not going to sit here and stew about finding a " perfect gift " for

somebody who won't appreciate it. I've got other stuff to do.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If she is feeling hateful that day, she will hate whatever you do.  If she is

having a good day, who knows what might happen?  I'd do whatever feels good to

you and not worry too much about how to prevent her from reacting badly.  Her

misery comes from inside and can't be prevented.

Best of luck,

Ashana 

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tue, 8 December, 2009 10:39:14 AM

Subject: Second-guessing myself

 

I will send my nada a Christmas card, but I'm debating whether to let her know

that in lieu of a gift (which she never likes, there's usually something wrong

with any gift I give her. She never used some gift cards (for a spa treatment)

I've given her, even) I will make a charitable contribution in her name.

I was about to do that when it struck me that she might take that as me wishing

she were dead? Sometimes people do that when they send condolence cards: they

indicate that they've made a contribution to the deceased's favorite charity in

lieu of flowers.

Maybe its just safer to send the card, period, and skip any attempt at a gift.

-Annie

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

http://in.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

Isn t it sad, that something as simple as giving a Christmas gift should

be so full of FOG? Yet, it is.

When I was a kid, it was easy, because she was a hoarder, and would keep

everything. As an adult, I d gave her a microwave, which I had to clean

out of her apartment, unused, after her death, years later. I gave her a

TV, which she gave away and used a used one she got from the alley

somewhere.

There was just no way she would recieve any gift appropriately. But,

perhaps we can give it appropriatly anyway. I found I was able to take

her for a meal from time to time, neutral ground so to speak, and some

time together, as safe as it can get. However, nadas do love the grand

gesture. If you are not able to get where she is, or not able to stand

it, you might consider a gift card to a resturant, Applebees, Olive

Garden, something like that, along with a note, that you ll be having a

meal there on such and such a date, and you hope she can do the same,

even miles apart.

Even if she finds fault with the card , the amount, or the gift, the

narcissistic part of her may love the symbolism.

It just never is easy is it? Sorry.

I m doing my first Christmas after nadas death. You d think all the pain

and FOG died with her, wuoldnt you?

You d be wrong.

Peace

Doug

>

> I will send my nada a Christmas card, but I'm debating whether to let

her know that in lieu of a gift (which she never likes, there's usually

something wrong with any gift I give her. She never used some gift cards

(for a spa treatment) I've given her, even) I will make a charitable

contribution in her name.

>

> I was about to do that when it struck me that she might take that as

me wishing she were dead? Sometimes people do that when they send

condolence cards: they indicate that they've made a contribution to the

deceased's favorite charity in lieu of flowers.

>

> Maybe its just safer to send the card, period, and skip any attempt at

a gift.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Oy, you are just a barrel of yucks! Psychology Today? How about an

autographed copy of SWOE? We could get Randi to scan her signature in and have a

rubber stamp made, then give the books to all our favorite BPs.

We gotta laugh when we can, cuz we ll sure spend a lot of time crying.

Doug

>

> Okey-dokey, then the " living memorial " it is! (Or how about a subscription to

Psychology Today? Yuk, yuk.)

>

> A " nada-safe " gift card could be from a large grocery chain near Nada's house,

or a coupon for an oil change, or anything else that is basic and inevitable.

If Nada doesn't like it, she can pass it on to a shelter or donate it to someone

who needs it (and then she can feel smug and superior). Whatever. The main

thing is, I'm not going to sit here and stew about finding a " perfect gift " for

somebody who won't appreciate it. I've got other stuff to do.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No we can't win with nada's. One year my nada gave me a big bag full of stuff.

The stuff *I* had given *her* for about the last five years worth of Christmas

and birthday gifts! I always gave her exactly what she asked for but apparently

it was not good enough so she handed it right back to me all at once!

[Guest guest]

my nada gives me back what I've given her, too... I would give her what she

wants, so it wasn't something I'd want back( nada has very different tastes

than I have)...but when SHE'D give a gift, it was something SHED wanted, so

I never liked what she gave me...and I ended up with a bunch of things I

didn't want/couldn't use...so I gave them all to the Goodwill...

Jackie

No we can't win with nada's. One year my nada gave me a big bag full of

stuff. The stuff *I* had given *her* for about the last five years worth of

Christmas and birthday gifts! I always gave her exactly what she asked for

but apparently it was not good enough so she handed it right back to me all

at once!

[Guest guest]

Ugh. Gift giving. Although I post here about my nada, we are also NC with my

MIL and I suspect she is a textbook narcissist. I tried everything to please

the inlaws at Christmas. I would find a nice gift and buy it on sale and then

they thought I was a snot because I bought something nice. They liked to buy

abunch of dollar store junk. I didn't know. After we had kids, I decided that

each year I would take the kids to a professional portrait studio and get really

good quality pictures taken and give them as gifts. Then I was " uppity " because

I was too good for the Walmart portrait studio. I couldn't win. I don't think

MIL put many of the professional pictures out, but covered her house with the

ones I had taken at Walmart when it wasn't for Christmas.

I digress a bit here. MIL used to come over to our house and complained that it

looked like a toy store. I was sure to leave out the toys that she had

purchased. I thought that was polite and then she and the kids could play with

them together. Nope, that got me in trouble. So after those complaints, I

started having the house picked up when the inlaws would visit and then they

would complain that i just kept all of the kids' toys in the closet.

This is the same MIL that told me about her abortion after I called to tell her

about my 2nd miscarriage in a year.

And to think my MIL is more functional than nada....

You can't win with these people. I am starting to enjoy my NC more and more. I

have been trying to post more and I've found it be very helpful.

le

>

> No we can't win with nada's. One year my nada gave me a big bag full of stuff.

The stuff *I* had given *her* for about the last five years worth of Christmas

and birthday gifts! I always gave her exactly what she asked for but apparently

it was not good enough so she handed it right back to me all at once!

>

[Guest guest]

SANE PERSON: sends unwanted gifts to goodwill so that they do not offend the

gift giver.

INSANE PERSON: gives the gifts back to the original giver so ensure hurt

feelings. Or perhaps out of sheer obliviousness of social graces, tact, or

emotional sensitivity.

STOP THE CRAZY TRAIN I WANNA GET OFF!

>

> my nada gives me back what I've given her, too... I would give her what she

> wants, so it wasn't something I'd want back( nada has very different tastes

> than I have)...but when SHE'D give a gift, it was something SHED wanted, so

> I never liked what she gave me...and I ended up with a bunch of things I

> didn't want/couldn't use...so I gave them all to the Goodwill...

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> No we can't win with nada's. One year my nada gave me a big bag full of

> stuff. The stuff *I* had given *her* for about the last five years worth of

> Christmas and birthday gifts! I always gave her exactly what she asked for

> but apparently it was not good enough so she handed it right back to me all

> at once!

>

[Guest guest]

At 02:28 PM 12/09/2009 Hellfireblonde wrote:

>SANE PERSON: sends unwanted gifts to goodwill so that they do

>not offend the gift giver.

>

>INSANE PERSON: gives the gifts back to the original giver so

>ensure hurt feelings. Or perhaps out of sheer obliviousness of

>social graces, tact, or emotional sensitivity.

Let me add to this.

SANE PERSON: gives gifts after thinking about what the recipient

might enjoy receiving and/or find useful, feels sorry if the

recipient already has the same item or it is the wrong size and

hands over the necessary paperwork so that it can be exchanged

INSANE PERSON: gives gifts that she wants for herself, takes

them back to keep herself if the recipient doesn't express

enough enthusiam for them after opening the package, takes it as

a personal insult if the recipient doesn't think everything

about the gift is perfect

Yes, my nada once immediately repossessed some jewelry that she

bought my sister for Christmas. The jewelry was pretty obviously

something my sister would never choose to wear and that wouldn't

have looked right for her if she had chosen to wear it. She's

bought me clothing that was her size and not anything I'd ever

wear on more than one occasion although she's never been quite

as quick to take that back.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

oh, yes, same with my nada...she's bought me pantsuits , you know the kind,

old ladies wear them...I mean 70+ I was in my 30's at the time ( although I

still wouldn't wear them no matter how old I get, the just aren't me...)

oh, when I was 45 nada joined the " red hat society " so she was buying me

red hats !! 1) I dont wear that style of hat she got me and 2) I have never

liked the color red !!

Jackie

> She's

> bought me clothing that was her size and not anything I'd ever

> wear on more than one occasion although she's never been quite

> as quick to take that back.

>

> --

> Katrina

>

>

[Guest guest]

More in this vein:

SANE PERSON: Is keenly aware of constant politics between siblings, and makes

at least some effort to keep gift-giving enterprise from conspicuously favoring

one child over another

INSANE PERSON: Purposefully gives the golden child extravagant gifts and tells

the black-sheep child that they have received lesser gifts because they are bad

and not worth it. (Quote: 'Well, she stayed with me, and you abandoned me.')

> >SANE PERSON: sends unwanted gifts to goodwill so that they do

> >not offend the gift giver.

> >

> >INSANE PERSON: gives the gifts back to the original giver so

> >ensure hurt feelings. Or perhaps out of sheer obliviousness of

> >social graces, tact, or emotional sensitivity.

>

> Let me add to this.

>

> SANE PERSON: gives gifts after thinking about what the recipient

> might enjoy receiving and/or find useful, feels sorry if the

> recipient already has the same item or it is the wrong size and

> hands over the necessary paperwork so that it can be exchanged

>

> INSANE PERSON: gives gifts that she wants for herself, takes

> them back to keep herself if the recipient doesn't express

> enough enthusiam for them after opening the package, takes it as

> a personal insult if the recipient doesn't think everything

> about the gift is perfect

>

> Yes, my nada once immediately repossessed some jewelry that she

> bought my sister for Christmas. The jewelry was pretty obviously

> something my sister would never choose to wear and that wouldn't

> have looked right for her if she had chosen to wear it. She's

> bought me clothing that was her size and not anything I'd ever

> wear on more than one occasion although she's never been quite

> as quick to take that back.

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

This is a nada trouble ... never enjoying any gift. No matter what it is

something is always wrong. This past summer, I went to visit my brother and

sister-in-law in Japan. I brought my nada a beautiful kimono that my

sister-in-law help me pick it out. The next time I came home it was crumpled on

the floor. The ironic thing about this is that when SHE gives a present ... I am

supposed to be crazy about it.... hmph... |

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " anuria67854 " wrote:

>

> I will send my nada a Christmas card, but I'm debating whether to let her know

that in lieu of a gift (which she never likes, there's usually something wrong

with any gift I give her. She never used some gift cards (for a spa treatment)

I've given her, even) I will make a charitable contribution in her name.

>

> I was about to do that when it struck me that she might take that as me

wishing she were dead? Sometimes people do that when they send condolence cards:

they indicate that they've made a contribution to the deceased's favorite

charity in lieu of flowers.

>

> Maybe its just safer to send the card, period, and skip any attempt at a gift.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

nada always gave the most expensive gifts to her favorite..not surprising, I

guess..

wow, thats really awful !! to buy her son womens panties !!

yup, my nada is the same way...she thinkwe should all be able to read her

mind and get her exactly what she wants...only it changes by the minute !!

My fada got her a gorgeous pair of diamond earings for their anniversary one

year...they had been window shopping, and nada saw them in the window, with

several other pairs of diamon earings...and, you guessed it, fada bought the

" wrong pair " when she opened the gift, she was SO angry ( she never said " I

like the square earrings in the back " or " I love those round earrings

over on the side " , she just said " oh, isnt that beautiful " and he didnt know

which pair she liked best) she threw the box with the earring at my

fada,and stormed out of the room. She refused to speak to him for 4 days !!

now, a SANE person would have said " oh, they're beautiful !! I did like

the other pair better, would you mind if I exchanged them ? " or would just

not say anything other than thank you they're beautiful !

I agree, if you give someone a gift, it should be what you thank THEY want,

not what YOU want..but i think that goes with the enmeshment part of

BPD..you are part of your nada, therefore you will always love what she

wants !!

Jackie

> I know what you mean about the pantsuit. How much underwear have I thrown

out that was women's, and i'm a guy, or the wrongsize and she has a card

with my sizes on it? I got older, and read a book about ACOA, and it sad you

ought to give gifts for the other person, not yourself. So I realized that

was true-gifts are particular and for the person, not me. I made sure the

family asked first, and if I got one my mother has gotten me that is the

wrong size or some other problem, it gets taken back or thrown out. She

always tries the poor me thing, but I remind her I told her what I wanted

and what I needed, and that was not it.

>

>

> My mother is a person who believes other people ought to guess, and then

> she changes what she wants over and over, always a setup. I won't do

> that-I told kids and everyone ,either they figure out what they want ,and

> ask for it and communicate, or they have nothing to open Xmas morning.

> They speak up, and that has carried over to the rest of their lives-speak

> or lose it.

>

> They always speak now. Good kids. learn quickly. I am glad they are happy.

> Their brother miught be gone, ande might be poor, but they got gifts they

> have wanted for a looooong time, from me. No jealousy anymore, either.

>

> Give people what they want, not what you want, and not to make them into

> someone like you. for them. Oughta be written o nthe inside of every store

> in the USA.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've given up on expecting normal reactions for a good deed from my nada. It

actually feels good. It's like being free from expectations.

>

>

> >

> > This is a nada trouble ... never enjoying any gift. No matter what it is

> > something is always wrong. This past summer, I went to visit my brother and

> > sister-in-law in Japan. I brought my nada a beautiful kimono that my

> > sister-in-law help me pick it out. The next time I came home it was crumpled

on

> > the floor. The ironic thing about this is that when SHE gives a present ...

I am

> > supposed to be crazy about it.... hmph... |

>

> an ex-friend of mine's Parents in law, own a kimono shop outside Tokyo. If I

ever got one, it would be wrapped up inside plastic and put into a cedar chest.

It would NEVER end up on the floor, unless I was having an insulin reaction

while looking at it.

>

> Wow, that is so disrespectful, that is incredible. They take forever to make

well, and are really beautiful. It just goes to show, bpd knows no limits to

disrespecting people's efforts.

>