Re: Found an old book on Assertiveness skills

[Guest guest]

(Regarding Hiding Injury/Illness due to rants):

Wow, I just had another memory. They keep coming with this thread. But I'd say

this one was about one of the worst ones I'd experienced.

I was at Nada's friend's house when I was around 12 years old. My Nada, and my

sisters, and I were swimming in Nada's friend's pool. My sister was sitting on

one of those lawn chairs in the pool. I don't think it was 'meant' for the pool,

but it stayed afloat well enough.

I thought it would be fun to swim underneath it, so I did. Unfortunately for me,

a big portion of my hair got stuck on the underneath side of the chair to one of

the metal hinges. I was pretty small for my age, so I didn't have the strength

to push this lawn chair out of the way.

I struggled quite a bit to get my hair unstuck so I could get to the surface to

breath, but I couldn't. I kept struggling for almost a minute, and my lungs

started to hurt. And my sister was still sitting on the lawn chair I could tell

from looking up! I wanted to scream, but couldn't. Finally, Nada came and lifted

the chair up (I guess my sister had gotten up), and a big chunk of my hair came

with it, as I gasped for air.

I was so scared and stunned, and my head hurt. I started to cry, and Nada

started screaming at me! Which in turn made me cry more because of the added

stress. Nada yelled at how embarrassed she was by my behavior, and how I needed

to control myself in front of company. I couldn't stop right away, so she

started saying, " shut up, shut up!... "

Nada's friend heard this, and she said, " Whoa, whoa. No worries. She did

good...she's fine. She did good. " This stopped Nada from continuing and I was

able to calm down as well.

-Joy

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I found an interesting book the other day at a friend's house. I

was surprised to find it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is about assertiveness training. It looked older, so I'm not

sure if it's still out. It was pretty extensive though; and I enjoyed reading

the first page:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " When I Say No, I Feel Guilty " by Manual J. , Ph.D.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Good question. I meant it as me but when you think about it it’s probably

the same for her.

My Nada was/is a product of her own childhood and she refuses to ever move

past it. I can only hope through this therapy, books and whatnot that I

don’t let this cycle continue.

Imagine the twisting you and I and the rest of us have experienced. But

instead of trying to solve our problems, and work our way through it we just

react and follow that downward spiral until one day we are the nadas as

well. We have the opportunity to break that cycle.

Though I know there are some BPD that don’t have this same cycle that’s

clearly evident as I see in my nada, her nada and grand-nada and so on.

I have long wondered how my nada could hang on with such strength to these

hurts and pain, as if to punish herself for life for what happened when she

was a child. She disassociates as we all do but I really believe she’s

still reliving that same cycle of pain as when she was a child and cannot

move past it. Is it lack of will? Is it that she’s just too far gone to be

able to move past it? I really don’t know.

She goes to therapy but she takes all these drugs (most are unhelpful and

she is addicted), she’s diabetic and eats mostly sugar/pastries and other

refined carbs in a very limited diet thanks to her gastric bypass that

didn’t help her lose weight because she trained her stomach to tolerate

sugar again… She will go through all that effort of therapy, at least going

through the motions but 99% of her behavior is self destructive. Well maybe

less because the other part of her behavior is destroying those around her.

Misery loves company, that’s the slogan I figured fits her best.

When I think about the horror of her childhood really, I am surprised she’s

not worse than she is… but maybe I’ve disassociated so much in this

childhood I can barely remember that it’s all a misperception.

When she was going through the divorce suddenly it was like she gave a damn

again about her husband. She spent so much time ignoring him. And she

talked about how much he mistreats her, how cruel and cold he is… yeah he

can be but she’s also the kind that hears a sentence that’s totally benign

and turns it into a mortal insult. “How did you like meeting my co-workers”

becomes “I wish you weren’t such a fat slob and embarrassing me around my

co-workers” or something like that. I’ve seen her do it first hand, not

just with me but seen her talking to my father and he will say something

like that to make conversation and she will turn it into the most awful

thing. It just leaves you breathless. Like, did that just really happen??

So, if she hated him so much that for 5 years she’d complain to me about how

awful he was and she’d get a divorce if she could… why suddenly act like

your life is at an end and your soul mate is leaving you?!?! And the

suicide threats, gah. Makes me so mad because I gave her the benefit of the

doubt, and I was scared what she might do… all for a drama. To see who

would jump and who would rush to her side to save her.

Just baffles my mind. And she knew too that I was near the breaking point,

I told her if she didn’t go to the hospital, no fuss the next time she felt

suicidal that I was done. She almost enjoyed telling me that I told her I

wasn’t going to bother with her anymore.

She made her bed, now she can lay in it! Maybe I’m being a little

“nada-esk” and heartless towards her but I just don’t have the energy or the

strength to play the dutiful daughter who lets her tear me up to make

herself feel better.

So maybe it isn’t right for her at all… it’s not that she won’t invest in

relationships. She tries so hard to keep people to her, shackles them in so

tight that it’s either run away or stay and strangle. That’s the opposite

of me pushing everyone away for as long as I did. The death knell for

friendships for me was people trying to come over too often or wanting to

hang out too much… or a guy I might even like telling me he loved me. I

would be gone in a flash! That changed when I met my husband, changed more

when I got pregnant but it’s like I let them in and still keep most of the

world at arm’s length.

It’s exhausting!

I’m sure I’m not making much sense. I think I got someone’s stomach flu and

my son had a nightmare so we’re up late waiting for him to be happy enough

to sleep. He cuddled on mommy a bit but wanted to lie down and play with

his trucks. =)

Dawn

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of joy.lynch54

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:25 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Found an old book on Assertiveness skills

Hi Dawn,

You wrote: " Better not to get a vested emotional interest in

anything or anyone, it would just be taken away or twisted, or used against

me. "

Is this sentence from your perspective looking in at the " FOO " and seeing

how Nada is taking them away from you by pitting them against you? This is

how I feel.

Or, do you mean this is from a Nada's perspective of the world?

-Joy

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I found an interesting book the other day at a friend's

> > house.

> > > I was surprised to find it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is about assertiveness training. It looked older, so

> I'm

> > > not sure if it's still out. It was pretty extensive though; and I

> enjoyed

> > > reading the first page:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " When I Say No, I Feel Guilty " by Manual J. , Ph.D.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I read this post. It makes sense to me. I know what you mean about feeling

nada-esque when you feel like Nada made her bed and now must lie in it. I feel

the same way, but I don't think we are vengeful people. I know I'm not, and you

don't sound like it from your posts. I agree with you about how after a certain

point, you just have to 'give up'. Although, its more like coming to a painful

acceptance of reality: Nada does not and will not change.

I hope your son feels better soon.

-Joy

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I found an interesting book the other day at a friend's

> > > house.

> > > > I was surprised to find it.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It is about assertiveness training. It looked older, so

> > I'm

> > > > not sure if it's still out. It was pretty extensive though; and I

> > enjoyed

> > > > reading the first page:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > " When I Say No, I Feel Guilty " by Manual J. , Ph.D.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Joy,almost drowning is terrifying,you must have been terrified.I almost drowned

twice as a kid,I know that feeling.You needed comforting and instead you were

screamed at by your nada to shut up,that's sickening.Your nada's lack of

awareness here is shocking,too--was she so out of it she thought her friend

would just go along with you being told to shut up,that you were an

embarassment? Thank goodness she didn't.

My nada had friendships that would suddenly end and I'd never see that

person again.Most of the time they were normalish,nice women and I wonder now if

their friendships ended when the friend got a glimpse of or simply saw nada for

what she really was.Did your nada tend to have brief,shallow " friendships " that

were intense for a time before they seemed to just evaporate? Anyone else?

The one friendship nada had that lasted for years was with another mother

who also had a scapegoated daughter (like me) who did nothing right.We were

several years apart,she was older,so we didn't have much of a relationship

ourselves but I felt sorry for her.This friend of nada's joined in with her in

constantly making me the problem.In turn nada constantly blamed this friend's

daughter for wrong doings even I could see she hadn't done.Talk about a toxic

alliance!

The second time I almost drowned was at the summer house of this friend

of nada's that was on a lagoon near the ocean.I was eleven.I swam down too

far,curious to see how deep it was.When I looked up I could no longer see the

light from the surface and had to reign in my panic as I drifted up then not

gasp greedily for air when I finally made it up so I wouldn't get the bends even

though my lungs were almost bursting.It seemed to take forever to get up to

where the light was and in the meantime I was thinking that this was it,I was

not going to make it.

Afterward I sat on their dock and calmed myself down,amazed mostly that I

was even alive.There was no point in running to nada for comfort: she would have

screamed at me or laughed at me.And at any rate me nearly dying would have meant

nothing to her.I was alone.

Of course if it had been her everyone in the house would have been

called upon to soothe her out what would surely have been hysterics.I had no

right to cry or to be scared or even to expect anyone to care that I had almost

drowned.I spent the rest of that day--indeed of that vacation---in a solitary

amazement that it's possible to do something that stupid and live,even me.Why

had I done that,when I knew better? Why was it that I just didn't much care

about myself at times,like my existence was a matter of indifference? It felt

like a kind of grace that I survived,that maybe after all something or someone

out there was watching over me or at least didn't think my mistakes should be

fatal,like nada seemed to.I noticed that I really did care whether I lived or

died,for the first time consciously deciding that I WANTED to survive.That was

my comfort.

--

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " joy.lynch54 "

wrote:

>

> (Regarding Hiding Injury/Illness due to rants):

> Wow, I just had another memory. They keep coming with this thread. But I'd say

this one was about one of the worst ones I'd experienced.

> I was at Nada's friend's house when I was around 12 years old. My Nada, and my

sisters, and I were swimming in Nada's friend's pool. My sister was sitting on

one of those lawn chairs in the pool. I don't think it was 'meant' for the pool,

but it stayed afloat well enough.

>

> I thought it would be fun to swim underneath it, so I did. Unfortunately for

me, a big portion of my hair got stuck on the underneath side of the chair to

one of the metal hinges. I was pretty small for my age, so I didn't have the

strength to push this lawn chair out of the way.

>

> I struggled quite a bit to get my hair unstuck so I could get to the surface

to breath, but I couldn't. I kept struggling for almost a minute, and my lungs

started to hurt. And my sister was still sitting on the lawn chair I could tell

from looking up! I wanted to scream, but couldn't. Finally, Nada came and lifted

the chair up (I guess my sister had gotten up), and a big chunk of my hair came

with it, as I gasped for air.

>

> I was so scared and stunned, and my head hurt. I started to cry, and Nada

started screaming at me! Which in turn made me cry more because of the added

stress. Nada yelled at how embarrassed she was by my behavior, and how I needed

to control myself in front of company. I couldn't stop right away, so she

started saying, " shut up, shut up!... "

>

> Nada's friend heard this, and she said, " Whoa, whoa. No worries. She did

good...she's fine. She did good. " This stopped Nada from continuing and I was

able to calm down as well.

>

> -Joy

>

>

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I found an interesting book the other day at a friend's house. I

was surprised to find it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is about assertiveness training. It looked older, so I'm not

sure if it's still out. It was pretty extensive though; and I enjoyed reading

the first page:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " When I Say No, I Feel Guilty " by Manual J. , Ph.D.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jackie,my nada sent me to school with a temperature,too.Once when I was a

teenager the school secretary called her in the morning to tell her if was an

emergency because I had a fever of 108 degrees and she didn't show up to get me

until after school closed,for no reason.She could have been there ten minutes

ater that call.I have always wondered what that seceretary thought...she seemed

shocked but she didn't " do " anything except remind nada that the school had

actually closed a half an hour earlier...she had had to stay there and wait with

me...and nobody did anything,either,although I was practically passing out in

the office...weird...what is that? Bystander apathy? That whole day was very

surreal.

Have you wondered what your school nurse thought?

I had meningitis that time,it turned out.Not the fatal strain obviously

or I wouldn't be here.

>

> same here...she'd send me to school even when I had a tempature...and the

> school nurse would call and want to send me home...someones nada wouldn't

> answer the phone, other tiimes she'd tell the nurse she had to go shopping

> and would pick me up later. Then I'd get yelled at

>

> Jackie

>

>

> Yes. I never said anything when I was sick because of her reaction which was

> either rage or anger at having to take me to the doctor and being

> inconvenienced or raging at me because I had difficulty taking the

> medication. She was and is a coldhearted selfish b*tch. When I was 18 I had

> an e-coli infection and strep throat at the same time. I was home sick for

> days and couldn't go to class. I couldn't get out of bed because I was so

> weak. I had a fever and was slipping in and out of consciousness for several

> days because of it. She used to come in every morning wake me up and tell me

> to go to class. I'd tell her I was too sick. She never said anything, she'd

> just leave and go to work. I got myself to the doctor and the pharmacy.

> Years later when I told her about the infection and how it led to another

> health problem she had no recollection that I was even sick. My dad

> remembered because he was the one who checked on me everyday. There are many

> examples of this throughout the years.

>

[Guest guest]

The " Ya-Yas " is a good book. I laughed and cried. It was very cathartic reading

it. You should read it. There is nothing to be afraid of. The book is a little

different from the movie and I liked it better. When I was a teenager I read the

" Prince of Tides " . It had a profound affect on me at the time. It was around the

time I was starting to see nada as a crazy woman and at the time I hated her. I

remember that nada saw I had the book and wanted to read it. I foolishly made

the comment that I could relate to the book. She demaned that I give it to her

to read. I was scared to death to give it to her so I hid it. I remember she

tore the house up looking for it and cried to my father that I wouldn't give her

the book. He got mad at me and told me to give her the book. I never did. Now

when I look back on the situation, it was just a good example of the insanity in

which I grew up it. A lot of fuss over a stupid book. Rages that went on for

days because she couldn't get what she wanted. In retrospect I think I was

afraid to give her the book because I didn't want her to know that I saw her in

the book. Now that I know more about BPD, I realize that she never would have

gotten it or seen herself.

Abby

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I found an interesting book the other day at a friend's

> > house.

> > > I was surprised to find it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is about assertiveness training. It looked older, so

> I'm

> > > not sure if it's still out. It was pretty extensive though; and I

> enjoyed

> > > reading the first page:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " When I Say No, I Feel Guilty " by Manual J. , Ph.D.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

my nada has been complaining the past several years that she raised us too

good and too independent because now we done need her...WTF ??? I'm the

youngest and I'm 50...we shouldn't need her once we're adults and out of the

house !! the truth is we had to raise ourselves and she was never there

anyway, so we never turned to her for help

Jackie

Nada always tell me that she is so proud that she raised me to be

independent and to have my own opinions..WTF?!?

[Guest guest]

Oh Joy that's so terrible. =( I would have been in a panic for my child and

holding and comforting her when she cried.

I wish I could hug you now!

This sounds so typical of my nada as well.

Dawn

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of joy.lynch54

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 2:46 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Found an old book on Assertiveness skills

(Regarding Hiding Injury/Illness due to rants):

Wow, I just had another memory. They keep coming with this thread. But I'd

say this one was about one of the worst ones I'd experienced.

I was at Nada's friend's house when I was around 12 years old. My Nada, and

my sisters, and I were swimming in Nada's friend's pool. My sister was

sitting on one of those lawn chairs in the pool. I don't think it was

'meant' for the pool, but it stayed afloat well enough.

I thought it would be fun to swim underneath it, so I did. Unfortunately for

me, a big portion of my hair got stuck on the underneath side of the chair

to one of the metal hinges. I was pretty small for my age, so I didn't have

the strength to push this lawn chair out of the way.

I struggled quite a bit to get my hair unstuck so I could get to the surface

to breath, but I couldn't. I kept struggling for almost a minute, and my

lungs started to hurt. And my sister was still sitting on the lawn chair I

could tell from looking up! I wanted to scream, but couldn't. Finally, Nada

came and lifted the chair up (I guess my sister had gotten up), and a big

chunk of my hair came with it, as I gasped for air.

I was so scared and stunned, and my head hurt. I started to cry, and Nada

started screaming at me! Which in turn made me cry more because of the added

stress. Nada yelled at how embarrassed she was by my behavior, and how I

needed to control myself in front of company. I couldn't stop right away, so

she started saying, " shut up, shut up!... "

Nada's friend heard this, and she said, " Whoa, whoa. No worries. She did

good...she's fine. She did good. " This stopped Nada from continuing and I

was able to calm down as well.

-Joy

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I found an interesting book the other day at a friend's house.

I was surprised to find it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is about assertiveness training. It looked older, so I'm

not sure if it's still out. It was pretty extensive though; and I enjoyed

reading the first page:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " When I Say No, I Feel Guilty " by Manual J. , Ph.D.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

OH yes, my mom did have friendships like this. but one of the ladies I

remember most was just like her in a lot of ways and treated me just

awfully. I hated going over there.

Dawn

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of christine.depizan

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:42 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Found an old book on Assertiveness skills

Joy,almost drowning is terrifying,you must have been terrified.I almost

drowned twice as a kid,I know that feeling.You needed comforting and instead

you were screamed at by your nada to shut up,that's sickening.Your nada's

lack of awareness here is shocking,too--was she so out of it she thought her

friend would just go along with you being told to shut up,that you were an

embarassment? Thank goodness she didn't.

My nada had friendships that would suddenly end and I'd never see that

person again.Most of the time they were normalish,nice women and I wonder

now if their friendships ended when the friend got a glimpse of or simply

saw nada for what she really was.Did your nada tend to have brief,shallow

" friendships " that were intense for a time before they seemed to just

evaporate? Anyone else?

The one friendship nada had that lasted for years was with another mother

who also had a scapegoated daughter (like me) who did nothing right.We were

several years apart,she was older,so we didn't have much of a relationship

ourselves but I felt sorry for her.This friend of nada's joined in with her

in constantly making me the problem.In turn nada constantly blamed this

friend's daughter for wrong doings even I could see she hadn't done.Talk

about a toxic alliance!

The second time I almost drowned was at the summer house of this friend of

nada's that was on a lagoon near the ocean.I was eleven.I swam down too

far,curious to see how deep it was.When I looked up I could no longer see

the light from the surface and had to reign in my panic as I drifted up then

not gasp greedily for air when I finally made it up so I wouldn't get the

bends even though my lungs were almost bursting.It seemed to take forever to

get up to where the light was and in the meantime I was thinking that this

was it,I was not going to make it.

Afterward I sat on their dock and calmed myself down,amazed mostly that I

was even alive.There was no point in running to nada for comfort: she would

have screamed at me or laughed at me.And at any rate me nearly dying would

have meant nothing to her.I was alone.

Of course if it had been her everyone in the house would have been called

upon to soothe her out what would surely have been hysterics.I had no right

to cry or to be scared or even to expect anyone to care that I had almost

drowned.I spent the rest of that day--indeed of that vacation---in a

solitary amazement that it's possible to do something that stupid and

live,even me.Why had I done that,when I knew better? Why was it that I just

didn't much care about myself at times,like my existence was a matter of

indifference? It felt like a kind of grace that I survived,that maybe after

all something or someone out there was watching over me or at least didn't

think my mistakes should be fatal,like nada seemed to.I noticed that I

really did care whether I lived or died,for the first time consciously

deciding that I WANTED to survive.That was my comfort.

--

-- In WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> , " joy.lynch54 "

wrote:

>

> (Regarding Hiding Injury/Illness due to rants):

> Wow, I just had another memory. They keep coming with this thread. But I'd

say this one was about one of the worst ones I'd experienced.

> I was at Nada's friend's house when I was around 12 years old. My Nada,

and my sisters, and I were swimming in Nada's friend's pool. My sister was

sitting on one of those lawn chairs in the pool. I don't think it was

'meant' for the pool, but it stayed afloat well enough.

>

> I thought it would be fun to swim underneath it, so I did. Unfortunately

for me, a big portion of my hair got stuck on the underneath side of the

chair to one of the metal hinges. I was pretty small for my age, so I didn't

have the strength to push this lawn chair out of the way.

>

> I struggled quite a bit to get my hair unstuck so I could get to the

surface to breath, but I couldn't. I kept struggling for almost a minute,

and my lungs started to hurt. And my sister was still sitting on the lawn

chair I could tell from looking up! I wanted to scream, but couldn't.

Finally, Nada came and lifted the chair up (I guess my sister had gotten

up), and a big chunk of my hair came with it, as I gasped for air.

>

> I was so scared and stunned, and my head hurt. I started to cry, and Nada

started screaming at me! Which in turn made me cry more because of the added

stress. Nada yelled at how embarrassed she was by my behavior, and how I

needed to control myself in front of company. I couldn't stop right away, so

she started saying, " shut up, shut up!... "

>

> Nada's friend heard this, and she said, " Whoa, whoa. No worries. She did

good...she's fine. She did good. " This stopped Nada from continuing and I

was able to calm down as well.

>

> -Joy

>

>

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I found an interesting book the other day at a friend's

house. I was surprised to find it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is about assertiveness training. It looked older, so I'm

not sure if it's still out. It was pretty extensive though; and I enjoyed

reading the first page:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > " When I Say No, I Feel Guilty " by Manual J. , Ph.D.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hah, mine says that too.

Dawn

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of abby_doo

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:04 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Found an old book on Assertiveness skills

Nada always tell me that she is so proud that she raised me to be

independent and to have my own opinions..WTF?!?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I found an interesting book the other day at a friend's

> > house.

> > > I was surprised to find it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is about assertiveness training. It looked older, so

I'm

> > > not sure if it's still out. It was pretty extensive though; and I

enjoyed

> > > reading the first page:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > " When I Say No, I Feel Guilty " by Manual J. , Ph.D.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

Your statement: " Nada was/is a product of her own childhood and she refuses to

ever move

> past it " , really hit home for me. This is the exact phrase that I have been

looking for when people would admonish me " to forgive and forget " nada's

behavior because she allegedly suffered a lot during her childhood (never

proved) and went through WW2. This is so true. Millions of other people

suffered unhappy childhoods and went through WW2 and DIDN'T turn out like my

Nada. She never grew up emotionally. And she never made any attempt to grow up

emotionally either.

Thank you for this insight.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

Wow, she handed you this unhealthy logic and put it in your lap, Jackie? So odd.

Then I'm assuming it is normal to her to withold support and try to handicap her

children emotionally and developmentally? Sounds like my grandnada and Nada.

Nobody else sees what they are doing. So bazarre.

Joy

>

> my nada has been complaining the past several years that she raised us too

> good and too independent because now we done need her...WTF ??? I'm the

> youngest and I'm 50...we shouldn't need her once we're adults and out of the

> house !! the truth is we had to raise ourselves and she was never there

> anyway, so we never turned to her for help

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Nada always tell me that she is so proud that she raised me to be

> independent and to have my own opinions..WTF?!?

>

[Guest guest]

The sick bowl. yes...I remember that too. My nada told me it was " just in

case " I didnt make it to the bathroom in time. Truth be told...I prefer the

bowl to actually sleeping in a pukey bed.

And...I agree, just because they are sick doesnt mean its OK. None of what we

read here is OK. The thing is...how do you fix it? People turn a blind eye,

kids are afraid to talk...I mean...people knew there were problems in my

household but noone called social services. Even if they had what then? And,

how do you prevent a PD from procreating? Seriously...how do you do that in a

relatively free society?

There really are no easy answers...

>

> I agree...just because they're " sick " doesn't give them a free pass to abuse

> their own kids !! I remember that post from last year...it was so sad, and

> horrific to think of the terrible abuse these people are allowed to get away

> with

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Every one of these incidents in this thread are describing criminal child

> abuse and neglect. The injustice literally makes me want to vomit.

>

> There was one post from about year ago where the member described a

> childhood incident in which her nada was beating her and *broke her arm*

> (the member's arm) but then when the fada came home, the nada denied it and

> had a " nervous breakdown. " Neither " parent " could be bothered to take their

> suffering child to the hospital. I think the member posted that her aunt

> finally took the child to get the arm set, but not right away, so the child

> had to endure severe pain for *days* until someone finally took pity on her

> and got her medical attention.

>

> And of course the child was terrorized into lying about the incident so the

> parents would not be prosecuted.

>

> And of course it goes without saying that the pd sexual predators who rape

> their own children/other kids are in the same category; they are all

> diseased vermin passing as " mothers " and " fathers " , and know very well that

> they have committed criminal acts and they just don't want to get caught and

> punished themselves.

>

> So what if they have a personality disorder? I don't care, I really don't.

> They don't deserve any more pity or mercy or compassion than they have shown

> to their helpless children. They should all die in prison from untreated

> beating injuries and nasty diseases.

>

> -Annie

>