Re: A&E Program

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/13/00 1:48:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

birchbarkmousepad@... writes:

> After all I am not dead.

Is this due to AA or AA deprogramming. I feel that one should either break

with it or not. I mean no disrespect, but it seems that you are biting the

hand that feed you.

LJ

[Guest guest]

Somebody mentioned cults back there -- this page,

http://totl.net/Cult/

,is an excellent take on real-life unbelievables, some of a dangerous

tendency. I have reported our interest in XA to the admirable Temple of

Thee Lemur.

Yrs

.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: <12-step-freeegroups>

>Subject: Re: A & E Program

>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:50:29 -0400

>

>And where were the cigarettes? Somebody with a better memory than mine can

>correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that the AA of AE contains zero

>percent cigarette smokers!

>

>Whereas, in the AA of 2020 they were always zooming in on smoldering ciggys

>held in grubby, slightly shaky hands.

>

>My girlfriend (still in AA) and I watched the 2020 show together, and this

>is one of the things she picked up on as an element of negativity in the

>2020 portrayal of AA.

>

>--wally

>

> Re: A & E Program

>

>

> >And the dude from the NIH?? Please he looks embalmed himself. I can't.

>Thats

> >all that I can say. I just can't. Its like someone let AA into my

>livingroom.

> >Hearing those chants and steps being read with the english accent will

>surley

> >give me nightmares. And where were the dirtbags??? even in shadow you

>could

> >see only well dressed fine upstanding citizens, They flashed once to some

> >scruffy person on the street that could have been me for godssake, or

>anyone

> >else for that matter. Where was the busloads of mental patients that they

>bus

> >in against there will from the halfway houses? Where were the jailhouse

> >meetings being forced on inmates? Where was the lady who would bring her

>5

> >screaming kids who would eat all the cookies and take all the milk for

>the

> >coffee to fill there sippy cups? Where was the real meeting???

> >

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Charlene,

Bon courage, as the French have it. The USA is one hell of a free country,

so I hope you won't get bothered by stepNazi fear-reflexes (which can result

in extrmely abusive language, though so far for me nothing " physical " ). God

bless and mind how you go,

.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: A & E Program

>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:57:24 -0400 (EDT)

>

>I got up this morning and started reading all the posts on the A & E program.

>Glad I didn't watch it! The 20/20 was on so late I could hardly stay awake

>through it, so I taped this one. I'll just tape over it I guess.

>

>I'm so glad I found this list too. Just in time to save my life. If I

>hadn't found this list, I might have thought I was the only one who wasn't

>running another alcohol program who thought AA was harmful (and might have

>followed Dennis to the life after). If only I could have gotten him to

>read

>this site. In 25 years, I was the only person he had ever heard criticize

>AA who was not " an alcoholic in denial " . He thought that he and I were the

>only people in the world who thought it was depressing bullshit. (He

>couldn't understand why I thought so, and he had been told by AA the he was

> " defective " . etc.)

>

>I have been thinking about going to AA meetings in my spare time and

>telling

>people about the court decisions which state they can't be forced to

>attend,

>publicizing the books which criticize, AA, etc. Does anybody have an idea

>what could happen to me? Bob Warner wrote me that he didn't even think it

>was a good idea that I put my phone number in one of my posts a while back.

>I don't have a regular job, so no one can fire me. I have many diverse

>clients, so losing a few won't hurt me either. So tell me what could

>happen? Will I be physically attacked? Will they kill me? Poison my

>coffee, maybe? Cause me to go out and get drunk--highly unlikely. Maybe

>they'll get an injunction against me going to meetings? Maybe that'll get

>some front page publicity, which is just what this issue needs.

>

>I'm starting to feel a little better since Dennis died, and now I am ready

>to do something significant to insure that he did not live and die for

>nothing.

>

>If just one person gets out before they ruin their life it's worth it.

>

>Any ideas?

>

>Charlene

>

>

>

>

>- Re: A & E Program

>

>

> >And the dude from the NIH?? Please he looks embalmed himself. I can't.

>Thats

> >all that I can say. I just can't. Its like someone let AA into my

>livingroom.

> >Hearing those chants and steps being read with the english accent will

>surley

> >give me nightmares. And where were the dirtbags??? even in shadow you

>could

> >see only well dressed fine upstanding citizens, They flashed once to some

> >scruffy person on the street that could have been me for godssake, or

>anyone

> >else for that matter. Where was the busloads of mental patients that they

>bus

> >in against there will from the halfway houses? Where were the jailhouse

> >meetings being forced on inmates? Where was the lady who would bring her

>5

> >screaming kids who would eat all the cookies and take all the milk for

>the

> >coffee to fill there sippy cups? Where was the real meeting???

> >

>

>______________________________________________

>FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com

>Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

>

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[Guest guest]

Charlene

I am asking myself the same questions. I have spoken

up some in AA about www.aadeprogramming.com. i only

bring it up in high trust situations. I know those

big meetings will be full of people who will put me on

their blacklist. But maybe I need to do it anyway. I

will be chairing a huge speaker meeting in a few weeks

for my 5th anniversary and I will have the mic and

options to say whatever to about 200 people. I just

don't want to make life difficult for myself. The

flip side is, it has been pretty difficult pretending

to worship at the altar of the blue banner. I can't

blanket condemn aa any more than I could praise it.

After all I am not dead. And I am pretty much in

control of life more than I ever have been. A lot of

that is thanks to aadeprogramming.com. I think a lot

of it is thanks to me. Boy I am scared to say that in

a meeting. I know I can say these things but again I

don't want to come across as hostile. I just feel

that I ought to give it away. That's what I've got.

Dina

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

AA is absolutely dangerous and damaging. I wouldn't be here on this

list if I hadn't been damaged by AA and felt a need to expunge my

soul of the trash that AA put there. You should never apologize for

saying AA traumatized you. But I repeat - WHY do you still go?!? I

hope you'll leave soon before this confusion and the continued

exposure to AA bullshit and the sickies who spout it kill your desire

to resist.

Nic

> None taken. I don't think AA or AADeprogramming can

> claim the credit for my not being dead. After all I

> was alive before I ran into either one of them. I am

> upset with AA because when I first started I was 22

> years old, a debutante pothead whose love of the herb

> led me to some very dangerous places. Once in AA I

> was introduced to some very pathological people, who

> were " healthy " because they were " sober alcoholics "

> " went to a lot of meetings and didn't drink " . I was

> told over and over that my best thinking got me there

> and just keep it simple stupid etc. I learned new

> christian prayers, which is cool, but i felt some

> abivilance about saying them, I am not christian. I

> thought AA was not religious. But i was too weak and

> self hating to assert my individuality. Now, I am

> not. So it may be that I am going overboard in the

> other direction. i don't want to apologize for daring

> to say thay my experience in AA has been traumatizing.

> I don't think I am saying that only because it sounds

> neat o to me. I wouldnt claim to be something I'm

> not. Unlike how I used to be. AA isn't all bad or all

> good. What irks me is being told that unless I think

> it is 100% wonderful I am sick.

> I would love to be in a room full of the people in

> this email group. We can be real here without fear of

> condemnation.

> Who gets the credit?

> I don't know.

> Dina

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

" After all I am not dead " -- are you sure 'bout this?

DH.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: A & E Program

>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:43:52 -0700 (PDT)

>

>Charlene

>I am asking myself the same questions. I have spoken

>up some in AA about www.aadeprogramming.com. i only

>bring it up in high trust situations. I know those

>big meetings will be full of people who will put me on

>their blacklist. But maybe I need to do it anyway. I

>will be chairing a huge speaker meeting in a few weeks

>for my 5th anniversary and I will have the mic and

>options to say whatever to about 200 people. I just

>don't want to make life difficult for myself. The

>flip side is, it has been pretty difficult pretending

>to worship at the altar of the blue banner. I can't

>blanket condemn aa any more than I could praise it.

>After all I am not dead. And I am pretty much in

>control of life more than I ever have been. A lot of

>that is thanks to aadeprogramming.com. I think a lot

>of it is thanks to me. Boy I am scared to say that in

>a meeting. I know I can say these things but again I

>don't want to come across as hostile. I just feel

>that I ought to give it away. That's what I've got.

>Dina

>

>__________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dina,

I'd like to be in a room with you, too. Instead, I'm in a room with an old

friend sleeping on the floor while I type this. Ain't life fun? No doubt

about it. So long as you feel good, thank God,

.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: A & E Program

>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:20:43 -0700 (PDT)

>

>None taken. I don't think AA or AADeprogramming can

>claim the credit for my not being dead. After all I

>was alive before I ran into either one of them. I am

>upset with AA because when I first started I was 22

>years old, a debutante pothead whose love of the herb

>led me to some very dangerous places. Once in AA I

>was introduced to some very pathological people, who

>were " healthy " because they were " sober alcoholics "

> " went to a lot of meetings and didn't drink " . I was

>told over and over that my best thinking got me there

>and just keep it simple stupid etc. I learned new

>christian prayers, which is cool, but i felt some

>abivilance about saying them, I am not christian. I

>thought AA was not religious. But i was too weak and

>self hating to assert my individuality. Now, I am

>not. So it may be that I am going overboard in the

>other direction. i don't want to apologize for daring

>to say thay my experience in AA has been traumatizing.

> I don't think I am saying that only because it sounds

>neat o to me. I wouldnt claim to be something I'm

>not. Unlike how I used to be. AA isn't all bad or all

>good. What irks me is being told that unless I think

>it is 100% wonderful I am sick.

>I would love to be in a room full of the people in

>this email group. We can be real here without fear of

>condemnation.

>Who gets the credit?

>I don't know.

>Dina

>

>__________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

-- I've never heard of this person, but will check her out if I get a

chance. She might make a dam' good bombpic. Have you seen my latest?

http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/elegybomb.html

-- it features my son, Lloyd (slight interference in being a father here,

thanks to stepNazis Inc.),

Yours (seriously smiling),

.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: <12-step-freeegroups>

>Subject: RE: A & E Program

>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:06:11 -0500

>

>LOL. Cut it out you two are cracking me up.

>

>Are we going to see a Newmar (Cat Lady) bomb page ?

>

> " The To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything! Newmar Bomb Page "

>

>

>

> A & E Program

> >Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:13:10 -0700

> >

> >What an awful program. If I weren't a lady (hi, ) I would

>swear.

> >Didn't live up to its ads -- apparently used Gilliam and Peele

>(especially

> >Peele!) to make points that Gilliam and Peele wouldn't have agreed

>with.

> >

> >I agree with those who want to barf, take a shower. Plus I want to

>change

> >my sheets, paint my house, and more.

> >

> >There is no word strong enough to express how bad I feel about this.

>

________________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Hi folks

It appears the " myths " they wanted to debunk are actually the truths

and the myths they wanted to reinforce. btw, for a sec I thought you

said " I want to change my sheets, my pantyhose.... "

I must say that it really looks like AA is going stratospheric ....

its out and out promotion now.

Must also say folks you really are putting me in quandary abt whether

I should associate with OA or not. ly Im not doing too well

right now - I'm in the shit financially, very depressed, fat as a

tank

and the only bright spot is I have a possibility of a some work

coming

my way, but I havent had a job interview, let a lone a job, for

years

and I'm very scared abt nmy future. Hence my possible re-assimilation.

P.

> What an awful program. If I weren't a lady (hi, ) I would

swear. Didn't live up to its ads -- apparently used Gilliam and

Peele

(especially Peele!) to make points that Gilliam and Peele wouldn't

have agreed with.

>

> I agree with those who want to barf, take a shower. Plus I want to

change my sheets, paint my house, and more.

>

> There is no word strong enough to express how bad I feel about this.

> ---

> Kayleigh

>

> Zz

> zZ

> |\ z _,,,---,,_

> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

> '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> Before you buy.

[Guest guest]

that sounds so cozy. i alienated my old friends with

aa cult behavior. i know that i have it in me to be a

good friend tho.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Me too - a friend of mine lost 115 lbs. in WW & they don't make you

pray or anything!

Nic

> >> What an awful program. If I weren't a lady (hi, ) I

would

> >swear. Didn't live up to its ads -- apparently used Gilliam and

> >Peele

> >(especially Peele!) to make points that Gilliam and Peele wouldn't

> >have agreed with.

> >>

> >> I agree with those who want to barf, take a shower. Plus I want

to

> >change my sheets, paint my house, and more.

> >>

> >> There is no word strong enough to express how bad I feel about

this.

> >> ---

> >> Kayleigh

> >>

> >> Zz

> >> zZ

> >> |\ z _,,,---,,_

> >> /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_

> >> |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'

> >> '---''(_/--' `-'\_)

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> >> Before you buy.

> >

> >

> >-------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

> >How about a flat, no-fee long distance rate of 6.7 " per min. -

> >or less? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you rates which

> >fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!

> >http://click./1/3820/2/_/4324/_/960945690/

> >-------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

> Before you buy.