Re: Nada asks me to hold her

[Guest guest]

Can you tell your nada that you are just 'touched out'? This used to really

happen to me when my kids were little and it felt like one more hug or someone

clambering on me would send me over the edge. Of course then there is the

possibility that nada will go into full drama mode: " Oh taking care of that baby

is just too much for you! You can't even touch your mother becs you are so

exhausted from caring for an infant! Give me that baby; it's too much for you. "

Wish there was an easier answer. The simple answer is " No, I'm not really

comfortable with that mom. " But that doesnt' necessarily make it an easy answer.

There are so many dynamics at play here, I know...

Take care,

>

> Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold her " .

She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a lot and

put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me cringe. I am

normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to " hold " nada

like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or

should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically

affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized

how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do this

because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really bothers me

to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's even worse

because she will never let go until I push away.

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, hearing all this is like hearing my own story. So freaking weird and

relieving. My mother also told me I was unaffectionate. She was always

invasive in her affection and physical needs. And so it is hard to hug her,

hold her hand etc. My sister could deal with her that way (as in rubbing her

feet, holding her hand) but I felt so ..cringing....

When I left her home after my sister died, I was so brittle, I said to her, with

compassion in my heart, that I just did not want a long goodbye. And she hugged

me like a normal person, even less so than one would expect a mom to. And I was

grateful.

My first husband was very unaffectionate and when he would try to get close it

would also make me cringe. However, my boyfriend is very tactile (similar to

me) and he is very affectionate and touching, our relationship is very physical

that way, and it is like a healing balm to me. I feel it heals me from all

those years of never being touched at all unless it was one of those

cringe-worthy experiences. I think it's because he is not invasive at all.

~patricia

Re: Nada asks me to hold her

I have experienced this also, and it makes me wonder if not wanting to be

touched/kissed/hugged is common for those who have experienced extreme punitive

behaviors plus extreme lovey/touchy/feely behaviors from their

personality-disordered mother and/or father.

I and my Sister experienced frequent verbal/emotional abuse from our nada that

would often escalate into physical attacks: face-slapping, pushing, spanking,

being jerked around, and sometimes being beaten with a belt. Then nada would

either be all perky and cheerful after battering us (as though she'd just had a

stimulating and interesting game of tennis) or she would be sobbing hysterically

and contrite and wanting reassurance that we still loved her, and promising to

never do that again. (Both reactions are absolutely bizarre and creepy, in my

opinion.)

The *last* thing I wanted was to be handled by my nada after she'd screamed at

me and slapped/spanked/beaten me.

I did not trust her, and on top of that I was still terrified, shaking and in

shock from having just been treated so harshly, and outraged. I was so angry at

her for scaring me and hurting me, sometimes for no reason that I even

understood. Part of the trauma was never knowing just how far she would go. I

was genuinely afraid of her, she seemed like she could kill me or *wanted* to

kill me when she was in a rage.

Afterward, I did not want her hands on me, I did not want to hug her or kiss

her, but I was forced to because if I didn't, she might just erupt *again.*

Talk about coercion!

But perhaps the bizarre combination of verbal abuse: a nada inflicting

vitriolic, hateful, emotional attacks, then afterward nada wanting to cuddle in

a loving and semi-intimate way, is just as jarring and dysfunctional and

damaging to a child.

And effing creepy.

I've mentioned it here before, but one of my very earliest childhood memories

is me hiding from " the woman " who is laying across my bed and sobbing piteously

for me to please come to her, and I'm holding my ears shut and saying to myself,

" No! She's just trying to trick me! "

My guess is that when my mother would rage at me I split her into " the woman "

instead of " my mommy " because the idea that my own mother would hurt and

frighten me so badly was too much for me to take at 3 to 4 years old.

It still is too much for me to take, in a way.

-Annie

> >

> > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> >

>

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi .

Yes! I feel my chemistry is off with my mother. Like, with my son, I can tell

that he likes how I smell and the way we physically are affectionate. I like

the way he smells too. He is 14 and will still lay with me in bed to watch tv

or smell my pillow...or want to have my pillow in his room for comfort. I

remember not liking how my mom smelled. Isn't that strange....

~patricia

Re: Nada asks me to hold her

My nada said that I wasn't affectionate as a baby either--that I stiffened

when she held me,pushed her away and tried to get away from her.And,yeah gee,I

wonder why too...I remember from very young feeling physically repulsed by

her,as if even our basic physical chemistry was " off " .Besides being on guard

with her physically,I didn't even like her scent.I remember that,like she didn't

even seem to be " flesh of my flesh " but some stranger unrelated to me.Her body

chemistry turned me off.I've always felt that way,into adulthood.

Does anyone else have this with their nada?

> > > >

> > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Yes for everything except the scent issue - I've never had a strong

sense in that. I was told I was a " wiggly baby " didn't like to cuddle. My

guess is that I didn't *want* to with her given even in my earliest memories I

don't remember being held by her or wanting to be held and finding hugs

smothering. It's sobering to see the evidence of how far back it all goes.

> > > > >

> > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That is so wonderful that you have an affectionate boyfriend whom you enjoy

sharing physical touch with, that is just so lovely.

There is hope for healing!

-Annie

> > >

> > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi Annie,

Yes, it is very healing. When my dad died a year and a half ago, my bf and i

had not been seeing each other that long, but I would go to his apartment and

just lay with him and he'd hold me~I didn't talk about anything, it was just

soothing to me (I was never held or touched as a child, or in my marriage). He

tells me that my presence is healing for him as well (unfortunately he lives

across the country from me...I am going there tomorrow...but it is such a

hardship )

~patricia

ps...yes, hope for healing, I feel that is what this is.

Re: Nada asks me to hold her

That is so wonderful that you have an affectionate boyfriend whom you enjoy

sharing physical touch with, that is just so lovely.

There is hope for healing!

-Annie

> > >

> > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

I am getting out of it after all, but not in the way I wanted. I am so

angry/annoyed right. So my daughter has had this really weird fever with no

other symptoms that has been coming and going and we thought it was finally gone

but today it was back. I had taken her to the MD on Monday and he said it was

probably a virus but if it came back to take her in again. So I took her in and

he ordered all these blood and urine tests. Well this was hard for me and baby

b/c she is only 9 months old and having to get urine via a catheter and draw

blood on a baby is so heart wrenching. She was crying and reaching out to me and

I couldn't save her. Anyway, my husband and I decided that we would not leave

town until the fever is gone for good and we get all the results back. So I

called nada and described my day and told her we aren't coming and the first

words out of her mouth are, " What are we going to do about the turkey and pies? "

Really??? Who CARES about the turkey and pies? I mean come on. She doesn't ask

any questions about how baby is doing or how I am doing. My cousin (who is a

total enabler) is there and she was kind of cold on the phone. Then I hang up

and my cousin calls back and apparently nada is beside herself just bawling her

eyes out with worry even though I told her the MD still thinks its most likely

nothing but he's playing it safe. It's just like nada to act inappropriately

twice within 10 minutes. First she under reacts and only cares about food, then

she's completely overreacting and getting all crazy. I am most certainly worried

about my dear baby, but I also know that there is no need to freak out at this

point. I am stressed enough with my own worry to have to calm her down. Now I

can't relax at all. I am just so p.o.'d at her. Why can't she have one normal

reaction to anything? Why can't she be supportive? There were no words of

comfort for me over this. I am not surprised but it still really gets to me.

Anyway, thank you all so much for listening and all your support. Once again,

it's so nice to know I am not alone. I hope you all have a wonderful

Thanksgiving.

>

> Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold her " .

She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a lot and

put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me cringe. I am

normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to " hold " nada

like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or

should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically

affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized

how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do this

because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really bothers me

to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's even worse

because she will never let go until I push away.

>

[Guest guest]

Oh Annie this post made my heart ache for you now and you as a child. No one,

especially a child, deserves that. It's so incredibly screwed up. I have been

sitting here trying to come up with words to describe how screwed up and there

just are no words that do it justice. You are an AMAZING person to have

survived.

> > >

> > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I work in health care and have to touch people all day and it doesn't bother me

(unless they are obviously dirty) but in the past when I have had to take care

of nada I could barely stomach it. She had a foot surgery and I had to wash her

feet and cut her toenails and it was so traumatic for me I started crying. But

if it had been someone else I think I would have been fine. Eww I am grossed out

just thinking about it. I was even grossed out when she asked me to do her eye

makeup for her once. I just didn't want to touch her face.

> > > > >

> > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Makes sense to me. Seems like by age 3 or so I already knew that I could not

trust my nada, that even if she *looked* and *sounded* OK at the moment she

would suddenly erupt again and hurt me again.

I suspect (based on a fragment of memory from early childhood) that possibly

nada even went so far as to pretend to be sad, pitifully begging for a hug only

so I would come close enough for her to grab and thrash again, but I had to

repress that knowledge so that I could live in the same house with her on a

day-to-day basis.

I also remember that around that time, maybe a little older, I had to strive to

suppress my automatic startle reflex if nada made a sudden, unexpected move near

me because when she saw me do that, it enraged her. It was an obvious sign that

I was terrified of her and it must have alarmed her: if anyone else should

notice it she would look bad, so she screamed at me that there was something

wrong with me and why was I doing that and I'd better stop it.

-Annie

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to

" hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug

her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes

me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want

to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, and sometimes they even deny that they ever did anything bad to you at

all, basically calling you a liar, and still you're supposed to just suck it up

and be nice and have a parent-child relationship with them.

It isn't fair.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

yup, that's what happened to me last week ! When I was talking to nada and

fada about my brother death, she decided to " discuss " our last conversation

we had in feb, when they called me a terrible daughter, a big disappointment

to them etc...and nada had the nerve to tell ME I verbally abused HER !!

When I reminded them that they were the ones who told me I was a terrible

daughter, a big disappointment et al, fad yelled " oh, you're making this all

up!! " like they never said those things !! hubby was on the phone and

heard it !! so I just said good bye and hung up, no sense getting into

another argument about " my attitude " and how " bad " I am...

Jackie

I agree, and sometimes they even deny that they ever did anything bad to you

at all, basically calling you a liar, and still you're supposed to just suck

it up and be nice and have a parent-child relationship with them.

It isn't fair.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

" ....still you're supposed to just suck it up and be nice and have a

parent-child relationship with them... "

You just described my whole #$%@#$^@%$% life!

Lynnette

>

> yup, that's what happened to me last week ! When I was talking to nada and

> fada about my brother death, she decided to " discuss " our last conversation

> we had in feb, when they called me a terrible daughter, a big disappointment

> to them etc...and nada had the nerve to tell ME I verbally abused HER !!

> When I reminded them that they were the ones who told me I was a terrible

> daughter, a big disappointment et al, fad yelled " oh, you're making this all

> up!! " like they never said those things !! hubby was on the phone and

> heard it !! so I just said good bye and hung up, no sense getting into

> another argument about " my attitude " and how " bad " I am...

>

>

> Jackie

>

> I agree, and sometimes they even deny that they ever did anything bad to you

> at all, basically calling you a liar, and still you're supposed to just suck

> it up and be nice and have a parent-child relationship with them.

> It isn't fair.

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi we're back- basically baby has a fever of unknown origin- they can't find out

where's its coming from which really freaks me out. But for now she is acting OK

so they sent us home and we are just waiting for blood and urine results and

will follow up tomorrow unless she gets worse.

> > >

> > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Is the swine flu a possibility. We've gone through that here with similar

symptoms. The fever comes and goes. It has been more than 2 weeks. *sigh*

Thinking of your sweet baby...

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thu, November 26, 2009 4:29:48 PM

Subject: Re: Nada asks me to hold her

Hi we're back- basically baby has a fever of unknown origin- they can't find out

where's its coming from which really freaks me out. But for now she is acting OK

so they sent us home and we are just waiting for blood and urine results and

will follow up tomorrow unless she gets worse.

> > >

> > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Your baby is so lucky to have such an attentive mommy looking out for her, and I

bet she is just adorable. Now its time to relax a bit, take a breather, give

yourselves a good foot rub, hot bubble bath, glass of wine, etc. while you wait

for the test results. Stay strong, I'm betting that everything will turn out

well.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well maybe but she has been fully vaccinated for that and no one has mentioned

it. Plus she has no other symptoms- no runny or stuffed up nose, no vomiting or

diarrhea, no ear pain- nothing. It's really bizarre. Did you guys have other

symptoms or only fever?

> > > >

> > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm laughing over here: Funeral Director and Recruiter!!!! Lolol - it's the

classic case of " Here Kitty Kitty! "

Someone will always buy " it "

Lynnette

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Re: Nada asks me to hold her

Wow, deja vu all over again!

Nada had a thing about " hold me " . Now, a normal person, who has a

relationship with you and wants a hug, would just hug you, and you would

reciprocate, and they would read the signals when you pull back and

release you. Right?

Never nada.

First , she would make the big deal point of saying I need a hug, or

hug me, or whatever. And, as I found out, not just to me. She went by a

funeral home after a guy she had one date with 20 years ago died, and

asked a casual acquaintence who was a funeral director " I need to be

held. Will you just hold me? " As she tells it she sat and stretched

that awkwardness out to hours. ( is that creepy, or is that just me?)

Second, with me, she would never release a hug. She would wrap her arms

around me in a death grip, usually around my neck, and lay her head on

my chest and hold on and hold on. I would release her and try to step

back and she would still be holding me. I d try telling her, like a

child, now when you are hugging someone and they pull away, that is the

signal that they are done and want to end the hug. No luck. I would have

to reach back and pry her hands away from my neck and force her to let

me go. It got to the point that I didnt want her to hug me, ever. I felt

like getting around a psycho ex girl friend who just wouldnt let go. ( I

had one of those too, but that is another story. ) And , in reflection,

it is just like everything else with nada, nothing we give is enough.

They always want more, and demand more, till the point that we dont want

to give anything, because we realize that with nada, to give anything,

is to give everything.

A hug is an expression of affection. Affection, like love, is given, not

demanded. But with nadas, they demand both, and then criticize it

because it is never enough. Yes, it is creepy.

My nada, when I was about to leave home to join the Navy, managed to

manipulate my recruiter into letting her go along for the 2 hour ride to

the AFEES station where I was to join and fly out to boot camp. FOOL!

Then the tearful hug, and prying the fingers off so I could go be abused

for 9 weeks. It was a friggin relief. They yelled at me and ran me and I

fought fire, I was exposed to tear gas, and it was a relief. My

consolation there is that dumbass recruiter got to ride back with her

crying hysterically for 2 hours, while I was on an airplane heading for

boot camp.

Yes, boys and girls, it seems to be common to us all, we were not

hugged, we were taken prisoner.

Bounderies! We can tell nada how her hugs make us feel, explain to her

as if she were a child, since she is, the proper protocols for hugging,

and the consequences, ie, if you wont let a hug be brief, and leg go

when I signal by pulling back, then I will no longer permit you to hug

me. Period.

Doug

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot

to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well

has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The

thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate

person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I

get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite the

bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate as

I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do

this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when

we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I push

away.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dang it , Lynette, now you ve got me laughing at it.

Like the cartoon, where the big dog Spike is asleep in the doghouse, and

Tweety says here Kitty Kitty to Syvlester, then when he grabs for Tweety

he gets the big dog instead. Just put nadas face on spike the dog, and

.....oh my, in tears here.

Guess we gotta laugh at it when we can, we get plenty chance to cry.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a

lot

> to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as

well

> has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her.

The

> thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate

> person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I

> get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite the

> bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate

as

> I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

> whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do

> this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

> really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when

> we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I push

> away.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

LOL! Wow, your soon-to-be-ex-roommate thinks she's GOD! Well, then the phrase I

use sometimes to express astonishment is very appropriate: Holy Cow!!

It doesn't surprise me, though, because I got a similar letter from an npd

ex-friend who claimed that I had committed " transgressions " against her (!?) and

when I looked that up, the word usually connotes offenses of a religious nature,

aka " sins. " Whoo-ee, these narcissists really do think they're God. Amazing.

-Annie

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot

> > to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well

> > has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The

> > thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate

> > person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I

> > get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite the

> > bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate as

> > I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

> > whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do

> > this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

> > really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when

> > we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I push

> > away.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Your comment about how being in the Navy equivalent of " boot camp " was a relief

and a joy compared to living with your nada, made me smile.

That is such an obvious indicator that your home life growing up with your

mentally ill mother was so hellish that it made something that other people

consider hellish feel like a vacation to you. Physically demanding but not

emotionally abusive.

It reminds me of something similar my dad used to mention; when he went into the

Navy he couldn't get over how great the food was, he loved it, and dad said his

fellow recruits just stared at him like he had two heads when he'd chow down at

mess with obvious relish! It was a family joke RE how bad my grandmother's

cooking was (I remember how bad it was) but it must have been even worse when

dad was a kid for Navy food to seem so delicious in comparison! Lol!

I'm guessing that's why some of us KOs wind up marrying people who are abusive

pds: possibly because the SO is simply a little *less* abusive than the pd

parent? Perhaps it just *seems* better to the KO because the KO has endured

monstrous abuse from birth, so a lower intensity of abuse (plus sexual intimacy)

seems vacation-like in comparison.

A crust of bread is a feast to a starving man.

-Annie

>

>

> Wow, deja vu all over again!

>

> Nada had a thing about " hold me " . Now, a normal person, who has a

> relationship with you and wants a hug, would just hug you, and you would

> reciprocate, and they would read the signals when you pull back and

> release you. Right?

>

> Never nada.

>

> First , she would make the big deal point of saying I need a hug, or

> hug me, or whatever. And, as I found out, not just to me. She went by a

> funeral home after a guy she had one date with 20 years ago died, and

> asked a casual acquaintence who was a funeral director " I need to be

> held. Will you just hold me? " As she tells it she sat and stretched

> that awkwardness out to hours. ( is that creepy, or is that just me?)

>

> Second, with me, she would never release a hug. She would wrap her arms

> around me in a death grip, usually around my neck, and lay her head on

> my chest and hold on and hold on. I would release her and try to step

> back and she would still be holding me. I d try telling her, like a

> child, now when you are hugging someone and they pull away, that is the

> signal that they are done and want to end the hug. No luck. I would have

> to reach back and pry her hands away from my neck and force her to let

> me go. It got to the point that I didnt want her to hug me, ever. I felt

> like getting around a psycho ex girl friend who just wouldnt let go. ( I

> had one of those too, but that is another story. ) And , in reflection,

> it is just like everything else with nada, nothing we give is enough.

> They always want more, and demand more, till the point that we dont want

> to give anything, because we realize that with nada, to give anything,

> is to give everything.

>

> A hug is an expression of affection. Affection, like love, is given, not

> demanded. But with nadas, they demand both, and then criticize it

> because it is never enough. Yes, it is creepy.

>

> My nada, when I was about to leave home to join the Navy, managed to

> manipulate my recruiter into letting her go along for the 2 hour ride to

> the AFEES station where I was to join and fly out to boot camp. FOOL!

> Then the tearful hug, and prying the fingers off so I could go be abused

> for 9 weeks. It was a friggin relief. They yelled at me and ran me and I

> fought fire, I was exposed to tear gas, and it was a relief. My

> consolation there is that dumbass recruiter got to ride back with her

> crying hysterically for 2 hours, while I was on an airplane heading for

> boot camp.

>

> Yes, boys and girls, it seems to be common to us all, we were not

> hugged, we were taken prisoner.

>

> Bounderies! We can tell nada how her hugs make us feel, explain to her

> as if she were a child, since she is, the proper protocols for hugging,

> and the consequences, ie, if you wont let a hug be brief, and leg go

> when I signal by pulling back, then I will no longer permit you to hug

> me. Period.

>

> Doug

[Guest guest]

She still has the fever with no other symptoms. They had us come back in for a

chest x-ray, which was normal and all of her blood and urine tests were normal.

She's getting worse but not bad enough to admit to the hospital or order any

other tests. They consulted an infectious disease specialist and he said he

feels it's a virus and to wait it out over the weekend. We're supposed to go

back Monday is she still has a fever. I really hope this ends soon.

I hope your family gets better soon too.

> > > > >

> > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm sure the pediatrician mentioned keeping her well hydrated, and just

letting her rest as much as possible. You have a relaxing, quiet weekend and

we'll send healing thoughts and prayers your way.

-Annie

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to

" hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug

her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes

me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want

to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annie, for your suggestions on hugging. My daughter is pretty angry that

we had to leave her friends when I left my husband. So I know this also

contributes to her new boundaries. I do respect that. I am trying to teach her

to identify her anger and express it more appropriately. Also I am learning to

respect her age appropriate need for more privacy. I am happy I don't hold on to

the rejection I felt so many times, and finally " got it " . She and I have talked

about it and I feel better. Part of my anxiety comes from the fact that she has

a learning disability that affects her understanding of non-verbal

communication. It is all trial and error like with any child, but a little more

complicated when someone is obviously not neurotypical.

...

>

> Subject: Re: Nada asks me to hold her

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Sunday, November 29, 2009, 11:55 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Maybe with your daughter, try just asking first

> " Can I give you a little hug? " and then respect

> her wishes if she says " no " . If she says

> " no " , you could say, " Well, I just want you

> to know I love you, so I'll say it instead, " I love

> you! " "

>

>

>

> If she learns that she can trust you to not invade her

> personal space and latch on when she doesn't want to

> hug, she may eventually say " yes " when you ask

> first.

>

>

>

> Or you could try asking her, " I was wondering if you

> are angry at me, if that's why you don't like me

> hugging you lately? Or if maybe when I hug you, do I hug

> you too hard or too long? You can tell me, its OK. "

> YOu can reassure her that you still love her and are open to

> hugging, but that you'll just stick to saying the words

> and let her initiate hugging if that makes her feel more

> comfortable.

>

>

>

> Its a great way to make her feel empowered that she

> doesn't have to accept physical contact from other

> people (like boys) if it makes her feel overpowered and

> uncomfortable.

>

>

>

> When we were growing up with our pd nada, Sister and I

> weren't allowed to have physical boundaries and were

> forced to hug and kiss people when we didn't want to. I

> think that respecting a person's boundaries, even a

> child's, is healthier.

>

>

>

> -Annie

>

>

>

>

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She

> has been asking me a lot to " hold her " . She wants

> me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her

> a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The

> thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically

> affectionate person, but I don't want to

> " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get

> around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just

> bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

> physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I

> grew up! And I also realized how whacked out she is. I feel

> sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do this because she

> feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

> bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe

> when we hug and it's even worse because she will never

> let go until I push away.

>

> >

>

> > > >

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ------------ --------- --------- ------

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> Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your

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> Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline

> Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore.

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