Re: Bill's Trip

May 1, 2000

In a message dated 5/1/00 1:53:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, monde@...

writes:

> So what of Bill W.'s legendary psychedelic involvement? I'd like to hear

more

> about this.

> Did he himself actually trip, or just watch others do it?

I believe that Bill " tripped " a number of times. This was, in the 50s and

early 60s when LSD and other drugs of this type were not prohibited in the

US.

In fact, Sandoz laboratories was the manufacturer of legal acid. I never had

the opportunity to take this coveted stuff, but I was fortunate that the

acid I did in the mid and late 60s was uncut, produced by the King of Acid,

Owsley, and I had several beautiful and revealing trips, and one trip that

was a horror.

Well, Huxley said it could be either heaven or hell!

I know that Bill would do these LSD " experiments " with

his spiritual adviser. He was always trying to rekindle that " spiritual

awakening with the white light " he had in the hospital. In later years Bill

sometimes talked about his " white light " experience in a sardonic manner.

I've had a problem making up my mind about Bill's white light spiritual

experience. On the one hand, I believe it was probably precipitated by the

belladonna treatments that Bill was getting in Townes hospital. For those not

familiar with Belladonna, I can't think of a worse drug to help someone detox

with.

Belladonna comes from the Deadly Nightshade plant. It is one of the better

known drugs derived from the plant. Others are Scopolamine and atropine.

Belladonna has a history of being used by witches during ceremonies. I've

read a few different things about this but apparently, witches didn't need

brooms to fly when they had Belladonna! If enough was ingested they had

their own means of traveling through the universe. It also was responsible

for the large dilated eyes witches supposedly had.

So, I believe that Belladonna, and whatever other drugs they gave out at

Towne's hospital, precipitated Bill's experience. But..because it was

initiated by a drug, I don't think that that in itself negates the

experience. Drugs have been used by mystics and medicine men for centuries to

reach that next plateau. So whatever happened to Bill, it was enough to

change the course of his life.

Before the government banned LSD, it was used in a few alcoholic treatment

centers. I'm not sure how this worked. I do know that the prison LSD sessions

that Leary conducted were considered successful.

Apparently, once Bill gave Lois some too, but a much lower dose than the 250

micrograms that was considered a full dose. It is reported that she said it

didn't do anything for her because she always appreciated the beauty in life

and already possessed the acute awareness that psychedelics make the user

aware of.

I can understand how taking LSD or a similar drug under controlled

circumstances, with the proper set and setting, and a guide that one trusts

100%, could result in an addict or alcoholic having an experience powerful

enough to make him reevaluate the direction of his life. Whether one wants to

call what happens spiritual or not is not important, but it definitely can be

called an awakening!

The one bad trip I had, occurred when I was living a life that was

unproductive, selfish and self destructive. I was 20 years old and had left

the " fun " drugs behind and was periodically shooting Heroin. When I wasn't

doing Heroin, I was using barbiturates and synthetic opiates like Demerol.

I took this acid trip because a friend of mine was home from the drug rehab

he was forced to attend, I had left this Therapeutic Community a while back.

I really didn't want to do the acid, I had stayed away from it or about a

year, but back then it would have been considered " rude " to refuse to share

in the communal acid trip.

Well, I couldn't handle it! The sick life that I was living was magnified a

hundredfold. For the first time I realized how idiotic, masochistic and self

destructive the act of injecting Heroin was. I realized I could not go on the

way I was going. That was my awakening, (without all the terrifying moments

which I won't go into) that I might not have had so soon without the acid.

Bill eventually stopped taking LSD because it was starting to gain a

reputation as a drug that could be dangerous and needed to be controlled. He

was getting pressure from the conservative members of AA. He also was an

early proponent of megavitamins especially B3, (Niacin) and promoted it at

meetings but eventually was asked to not do this either.

Before it became known as a " hippie " drug, many prominent individuals took

LSD and Peyote. Apparently, at a meeting between Booth Luce and Abbie

Hoffman, (Both experienced psychedelic users) Abbie asked Luce why Time &

LIfe magazine which were owned by her husband, was mounting an anti LSD

campaign in their magazine.

Her answer was an elitist one, something to the effect that " we used it

responsibly " and you people (translated-the unwashed masses) are

irresponsible and running it into the ground.

I believe there is a place for psychedelics in alcohol and drug treatment.

Unfortunately, I do not see the US changing their policies anytime soon. For

a while doctors who used unknown psychedelics in treating patients like MMDA

in the early 80s, got away with it because there was not a specific law

banning it.

Now, I think there is a blanket law that prohibits any type of chemical or

analogue that remotely mimics other banned psychedelics.

May 1, 2000

Dear DMT,

A lot of sense in your letter. I have to say that I didn't drink seriously

until after I'd taken LSD heavily in 1970. I had a job getting back from

where I washed up when I stopped taking it, and was in fact recommended to

drink to help get my feet back on the ground by someone with my welfare at

heart. I also met a very attractive and rather boozy lady about this time

who became mother of two fine sons. Obviously a factor we cannot ignore.

No, I'm certainly not saying LSD makes you booze, and would go along with

the view that it does things which are off the map as far as mere hedonism

goes.

Yes, the poor old CIA found things getting rather out of hand, it seems,

when the Harvard minds started blowing. There's a lot of stuff out there on

the net under " CIA MKULTRA " . I last took LSD in 1972 and have almost

completely abstained from serious hallucinogens since then -- a couple of

mild exposures over the years to the magic mushrooms which abound in Wales

where I live, but no appetite for them. Don't drink either now, but have a

close friend called " Jane " .

Best wishes and keep your space helmet on out there!!!

Doug.

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May 1, 2000

-----Original Message-----

So what of Bill W.'s legendary psychedelic involvement? I'd like to hear

more about this.

Did he himself actually trip, or just watch others do it?

-dmt

The LSD episode is covered pretty well in Chapter 23 of AA's official

biography of Bill W., " Pass It On. " He actually did trip, and he persuaded

other steppers, including " Father Ed " Dowling and his wife Lois to trip

also. Bill's first (and apparently NOT only) trip was on August 29, 1956.

" Pass It On " says that he had " personally withdrawn from the LSD

experiments " by 1959, only because of his " responsibility " as the founder of

AA, and at the urging of some AA associates. His experiences were entirely

positive and he was quite enthusiastic about acid.

was well acquainted with several of the key psychedelic pioneers,

including Aldous Huxley, Gerald Heard, and the Drs. Humphrey Osmond and

Abram Hoffer. Leary had approached in the late 50's, but

put him off for reasons unspecified in the book.

One of the interesting things about the timing of the LSD experiments was

that they coincided with the end of 's clinical depression.

--wally

May 2, 2000

Hi DOug

Is " Jane " slang for a drug or something, or a real person?

P.

Don't drink either now, but

have a

> close friend called " Jane " .

May 2, 2000

Hi Mike

I hope you're pleased when I say I agree with a lot of what you say

here. I too think Bill's " white flash " (I think thats what he termed

it) was probably amplified by the belladonna, just as Melody

Beattie's

was by hash many years later, but nevertheless it does not invalidate

the experience - I have had a much less profound version without drug

use, which is why I am not in fact totally anti 12-step tho I

ususally

sound it.

The War on Drugs has another often forgotten casuality, the

consequent

pracical ban on much psychoactive drug treatment that could assist

ppl with psychological problems, including opiates for depression and

cannabis for a great many things.

P.

> In a message dated 5/1/00 1:53:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

monde@t...

> writes:

>

> > So what of Bill W.'s legendary psychedelic involvement? I'd like

to hear

> more

> > about this.

> > Did he himself actually trip, or just watch others do it?

>

> I believe that Bill " tripped " a number of times. This was, in the

50s and

> early 60s when LSD and other drugs of this type were not prohibited

in the

> US.

>

> In fact, Sandoz laboratories was the manufacturer of legal acid. I

never had

> the opportunity to take this coveted stuff, but I was fortunate

that the

> acid I did in the mid and late 60s was uncut, produced by the King

of Acid,

> Owsley, and I had several beautiful and revealing trips, and one

trip that

> was a horror.

> Well, Huxley said it could be either heaven or hell!

>

> I know that Bill would do these LSD " experiments " with

> his spiritual adviser. He was always trying to rekindle that

" spiritual

> awakening with the white light " he had in the hospital. In later

years Bill

> sometimes talked about his " white light " experience in a sardonic

manner.

>

> I've had a problem making up my mind about Bill's white light

spiritual

> experience. On the one hand, I believe it was probably precipitated

by the

> belladonna treatments that Bill was getting in Townes hospital. For

those not

> familiar with Belladonna, I can't think of a worse drug to help

someone detox

> with.

>

> Belladonna comes from the Deadly Nightshade plant. It is one of the

better

> known drugs derived from the plant. Others are Scopolamine and

atropine.

> Belladonna has a history of being used by witches during

ceremonies.

I've

> read a few different things about this but apparently, witches

didn't need

> brooms to fly when they had Belladonna! If enough was ingested

they

had

> their own means of traveling through the universe. It also was

responsible

> for the large dilated eyes witches supposedly had.

>

> So, I believe that Belladonna, and whatever other drugs they gave

out at

> Towne's hospital, precipitated Bill's experience. But..because it

was

> initiated by a drug, I don't think that that in itself negates the

> experience. Drugs have been used by mystics and medicine men for

centuries to

> reach that next plateau. So whatever happened to Bill, it was

enough

to

> change the course of his life.

>

> Before the government banned LSD, it was used in a few alcoholic

treatment

> centers. I'm not sure how this worked. I do know that the prison

LSD

sessions

> that Leary conducted were considered successful.

>

> Apparently, once Bill gave Lois some too, but a much lower dose

than

the 250

> micrograms that was considered a full dose. It is reported that she

said it

> didn't do anything for her because she always appreciated the

beauty

in life

> and already possessed the acute awareness that psychedelics make

the

user

> aware of.

>

> I can understand how taking LSD or a similar drug under controlled

> circumstances, with the proper set and setting, and a guide that

one

trusts

> 100%, could result in an addict or alcoholic having an experience

powerful

> enough to make him reevaluate the direction of his life. Whether

one

wants to

> call what happens spiritual or not is not important, but it

definitely can be

> called an awakening!

>

> The one bad trip I had, occurred when I was living a life that was

> unproductive, selfish and self destructive. I was 20 years old and

had left

> the " fun " drugs behind and was periodically shooting Heroin. When I

wasn't

> doing Heroin, I was using barbiturates and synthetic opiates like

Demerol.

>

> I took this acid trip because a friend of mine was home from the

drug rehab

> he was forced to attend, I had left this Therapeutic Community a

while back.

> I really didn't want to do the acid, I had stayed away from it or

about a

> year, but back then it would have been considered " rude " to refuse

to share

> in the communal acid trip.

>

> Well, I couldn't handle it! The sick life that I was living was

magnified a

> hundredfold. For the first time I realized how idiotic, masochistic

and self

> destructive the act of injecting Heroin was. I realized I could not

go on the

> way I was going. That was my awakening, (without all the

terrifying

moments

> which I won't go into) that I might not have had so soon without

the acid.

>

> Bill eventually stopped taking LSD because it was starting to

gain a

> reputation as a drug that could be dangerous and needed to be

controlled. He

> was getting pressure from the conservative members of AA. He also

was an

> early proponent of megavitamins especially B3, (Niacin) and

promoted

it at

> meetings but eventually was asked to not do this either.

>

> Before it became known as a " hippie " drug, many prominent

individuals took

> LSD and Peyote. Apparently, at a meeting between Booth Luce

and Abbie

> Hoffman, (Both experienced psychedelic users) Abbie asked Luce why

Time &

> LIfe magazine which were owned by her husband, was mounting an anti

LSD

> campaign in their magazine.

>

> Her answer was an elitist one, something to the effect that " we

used

it

> responsibly " and you people (translated-the unwashed masses) are

> irresponsible and running it into the ground.

>

> I believe there is a place for psychedelics in alcohol and drug

treatment.

> Unfortunately, I do not see the US changing their policies anytime

soon. For

> a while doctors who used unknown psychedelics in treating patients

like MMDA

> in the early 80s, got away with it because there was not a specific

law

> banning it.

>

> Now, I think there is a blanket law that prohibits any type of

chemical or

> analogue that remotely mimics other banned psychedelics.

>

May 2, 2000

Pete --

Interesting cannabis link (as cannabis links go . . .)

http://www.freedomdomain.com/hemppot.htm

I am successfully carrying out my non-smoking proposals (worst of it is

desperate for a fag now and then -- on nicotine inhalator) and have reduced

my dope consumption greatly simply by cutting out the smoking behaviour.

I'm a sucker for the view that the weed is one of more God's more obvious

good gifts, as per the link above (which also has some interesting anti-New

World Order stuff, consistent with the idea that NA thrives with official

support as a function of the phoney " war against drugs " .

Later,

Doug.

http://www.freedomdomain.com/hemppot.htm

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Bill's Trip

>Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 00:30:07 -0000

>

>Hi Mike

>

>I hope you're pleased when I say I agree with a lot of what you say

>here. I too think Bill's " white flash " (I think thats what he termed

>it) was probably amplified by the belladonna, just as Melody

>Beattie's

>was by hash many years later, but nevertheless it does not invalidate

>the experience - I have had a much less profound version without drug

>use, which is why I am not in fact totally anti 12-step tho I

>ususally

>sound it.

>

>The War on Drugs has another often forgotten casuality, the

>consequent

> pracical ban on much psychoactive drug treatment that could assist

>ppl with psychological problems, including opiates for depression and

>cannabis for a great many things.

>

>P.

>

> > In a message dated 5/1/00 1:53:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>monde@t...

> > writes:

> >

> > > So what of Bill W.'s legendary psychedelic involvement? I'd like

>to hear

> > more

> > > about this.

> > > Did he himself actually trip, or just watch others do it?

> >

> > I believe that Bill " tripped " a number of times. This was, in the

>50s and

> > early 60s when LSD and other drugs of this type were not prohibited

>in the

> > US.

> >

> > In fact, Sandoz laboratories was the manufacturer of legal acid. I

>never had

> > the opportunity to take this coveted stuff, but I was fortunate

>that the

> > acid I did in the mid and late 60s was uncut, produced by the King

>of Acid,

> > Owsley, and I had several beautiful and revealing trips, and one

>trip that

> > was a horror.

> > Well, Huxley said it could be either heaven or hell!

> >

> > I know that Bill would do these LSD " experiments " with

> > his spiritual adviser. He was always trying to rekindle that

> " spiritual

> > awakening with the white light " he had in the hospital. In later

>years Bill

> > sometimes talked about his " white light " experience in a sardonic

>manner.

> >

> > I've had a problem making up my mind about Bill's white light

>spiritual

> > experience. On the one hand, I believe it was probably precipitated

>by the

> > belladonna treatments that Bill was getting in Townes hospital. For

>those not

> > familiar with Belladonna, I can't think of a worse drug to help

>someone detox

> > with.

> >

> > Belladonna comes from the Deadly Nightshade plant. It is one of the

>better

> > known drugs derived from the plant. Others are Scopolamine and

>atropine.

> > Belladonna has a history of being used by witches during

>ceremonies.

>I've

> > read a few different things about this but apparently, witches

>didn't need

> > brooms to fly when they had Belladonna! If enough was ingested

>they

>had

> > their own means of traveling through the universe. It also was

>responsible

> > for the large dilated eyes witches supposedly had.

> >

> > So, I believe that Belladonna, and whatever other drugs they gave

>out at

> > Towne's hospital, precipitated Bill's experience. But..because it

>was

> > initiated by a drug, I don't think that that in itself negates the

> > experience. Drugs have been used by mystics and medicine men for

>centuries to

> > reach that next plateau. So whatever happened to Bill, it was

>enough

>to

> > change the course of his life.

> >

> > Before the government banned LSD, it was used in a few alcoholic

>treatment

> > centers. I'm not sure how this worked. I do know that the prison

>LSD

>sessions

> > that Leary conducted were considered successful.

> >

> > Apparently, once Bill gave Lois some too, but a much lower dose

>than

>the 250

> > micrograms that was considered a full dose. It is reported that she

>said it

> > didn't do anything for her because she always appreciated the

>beauty

>in life

> > and already possessed the acute awareness that psychedelics make

>the

>user

> > aware of.

> >

> > I can understand how taking LSD or a similar drug under controlled

> > circumstances, with the proper set and setting, and a guide that

>one

>trusts

> > 100%, could result in an addict or alcoholic having an experience

>powerful

> > enough to make him reevaluate the direction of his life. Whether

>one

>wants to

> > call what happens spiritual or not is not important, but it

>definitely can be

> > called an awakening!

> >

> > The one bad trip I had, occurred when I was living a life that was

> > unproductive, selfish and self destructive. I was 20 years old and

>had left

> > the " fun " drugs behind and was periodically shooting Heroin. When I

>wasn't

> > doing Heroin, I was using barbiturates and synthetic opiates like

>Demerol.

> >

> > I took this acid trip because a friend of mine was home from the

>drug rehab

> > he was forced to attend, I had left this Therapeutic Community a

>while back.

> > I really didn't want to do the acid, I had stayed away from it or

>about a

> > year, but back then it would have been considered " rude " to refuse

>to share

> > in the communal acid trip.

> >

> > Well, I couldn't handle it! The sick life that I was living was

>magnified a

> > hundredfold. For the first time I realized how idiotic, masochistic

>and self

> > destructive the act of injecting Heroin was. I realized I could not

>go on the

> > way I was going. That was my awakening, (without all the

>terrifying

>moments

> > which I won't go into) that I might not have had so soon without

>the acid.

> >

> > Bill eventually stopped taking LSD because it was starting to

>gain a

> > reputation as a drug that could be dangerous and needed to be

>controlled. He

> > was getting pressure from the conservative members of AA. He also

>was an

> > early proponent of megavitamins especially B3, (Niacin) and

>promoted

>it at

> > meetings but eventually was asked to not do this either.

> >

> > Before it became known as a " hippie " drug, many prominent

>individuals took

> > LSD and Peyote. Apparently, at a meeting between Booth Luce

>and Abbie

> > Hoffman, (Both experienced psychedelic users) Abbie asked Luce why

>Time &

> > LIfe magazine which were owned by her husband, was mounting an anti

>LSD

> > campaign in their magazine.

> >

> > Her answer was an elitist one, something to the effect that " we

>used

>it

> > responsibly " and you people (translated-the unwashed masses) are

> > irresponsible and running it into the ground.

> >

> > I believe there is a place for psychedelics in alcohol and drug

>treatment.

> > Unfortunately, I do not see the US changing their policies anytime

>soon. For

> > a while doctors who used unknown psychedelics in treating patients

>like MMDA

> > in the early 80s, got away with it because there was not a specific

>law

> > banning it.

> >

> > Now, I think there is a blanket law that prohibits any type of

>chemical or

> > analogue that remotely mimics other banned psychedelics.

> >

>

________________________________________________________________________

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May 2, 2000

Pete,

Regret is not a real person, but an illegal substance.

Regret total abstinence from real people heterosex is the least satisfactory

part of my scene at the moment.

Woe is me,

D.

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Bill's Trip

>Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 00:18:06 -0000

>

>Hi DOug

>

>Is " Jane " slang for a drug or something, or a real person?

>

>P.

>

> Don't drink either now, but

>have a

> > close friend called " Jane " .

>

________________________________________________________________________

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May 2, 2000

Hi again

>worst of it is desperate for a fag now and then

Are you aware by any chance what our American friends understand by

the word " fag " ? No wonder Jane aint a girl.

On that point, I can understand why you might be reluctant to reveal

MJ's " identity " on a public list, but could you perhaps write me with

it? I'm curious...

P.

May 2, 2000

I thought you were joking the first go around

J and Jane are euphemisms for Marijuana.

Re: Bill's Trip

Hi again

>worst of it is desperate for a fag now and then

Are you aware by any chance what our American friends understand by

the word " fag " ? No wonder Jane aint a girl.

On that point, I can understand why you might be reluctant to reveal

MJ's " identity " on a public list, but could you perhaps write me with

it? I'm curious...

P.

May 3, 2000

> I thought you were joking the first go around

>

> J and Jane are euphemisms for Marijuana.

Just shows my drug near-virginity, doesnt it? Well, since gf dumped

me

the other day, my comfort has been from Five-Fingered Fifi.

P.

May 3, 2000

Dear Pete,

Thanks for your note on translatlantic usage -- I quite forgot what " fag "

conveys to USAs. I of course meant a ciggy, and by the way Jane is

just plain old marijuana, whose names are legion. I'm feeling loads better,

though, in the mornings after not smoking about half ounce of " Drum

halfzware shag " (!) a day.

Had photo from my cyber-girlfriend a mere 20 miles away today. Is there

hope for the 53 year old solitary heterosexual in Cardiff in 2000? . . .

possibly!!!

yrs

Doug.

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Bill's Trip

>Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 01:48:05 -0000

>

>Hi again

>

> >worst of it is desperate for a fag now and then

>

>Are you aware by any chance what our American friends understand by

>the word " fag " ? No wonder Jane aint a girl.

>

>On that point, I can understand why you might be reluctant to reveal

>MJ's " identity " on a public list, but could you perhaps write me with

>it? I'm curious...

>

>P.

>

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

May 3, 2000

Yeh, Pete,

Sex is all right but you can't beat the real thing!!

(only joking)

Doug.

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: RE: Bill's Trip

>Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 06:20:22 -0000

>

> > I thought you were joking the first go around

> >

> > J and Jane are euphemisms for Marijuana.

>

>Just shows my drug near-virginity, doesnt it? Well, since gf dumped

>me

>the other day, my comfort has been from Five-Fingered Fifi.

>

>P.

>

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May 4, 2000

In a message dated 5/3/00 7:37:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

doug_houston@... writes:

> J and Jane are euphemisms for Marijuana.

This nickname for marijuana goes back to the jazz age in the 1920s & 1930s.

When I started smoking pot over 30 years ago, it was the people in their 40s

and up who still sometimes used jane or tea as nicknames. In his novels

Burroughs uses " Tea " and " weed. " Does anyone know when and why it

became known as Pot?

The rock group The Association in 1967 had a hit called which I think was

called

" Along comes . " I don't remember it all but the lyrics definitely

pertained to grass. Some of the words near the end were " She's got the punch,

she's got the punch, " then something about " if I don't see really see

reality...

Well it was 33 years ago. lol

May 4, 2000

Mike,

" Pot " is said to come from the earthenware jar in which Mexicans

traditionally kept their loco-weed. It is popularly known as " draw " in

Cardiff, and to prepare a smoke is to " box a draw " . This is old " Tiger Bay "

slang from the days when Cardiff was the world's leading coal port and

seamen from many nations fetched up here. " Tiger Bay " was, and remains, the

disreputable port and downmarket residential area where the rich ethnic mix

settled. It's a great part of the world, though one is advised to keep

one's middle class wits about one. Sounds like we're of the same generation,

old timer!!!

Doug. (aetat 53)

>From: mikena@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: Bill's Trip

>Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:35:56 EDT

>

>In a message dated 5/3/00 7:37:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

>doug_houston@... writes:

>

> > J and Jane are euphemisms for Marijuana.

>

>This nickname for marijuana goes back to the jazz age in the 1920s & 1930s.

>When I started smoking pot over 30 years ago, it was the people in their

>40s

>and up who still sometimes used jane or tea as nicknames. In his novels

> Burroughs uses " Tea " and " weed. " Does anyone know when and why it

>became known as Pot?

>

>The rock group The Association in 1967 had a hit called which I think was

>called

>

> " Along comes . " I don't remember it all but the lyrics definitely

>pertained to grass. Some of the words near the end were " She's got the

>punch,

>she's got the punch, " then something about " if I don't see really see

>reality...

>Well it was 33 years ago. lol

>

________________________________________________________________________

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May 4, 2000

-----Original Message-----

>

>The rock group The Association in 1967 had a hit called which I think was

>called

>

> " Along comes . " I don't remember it all but the lyrics definitely

>pertained to grass. Some of the words near the end were " She's got the

punch,

>she's got the punch, " then something about " if I don't see really see

>reality...

>Well it was 33 years ago. lol

>

Here it is. Does indeed seem like it could be about ol' J. Rooney.

That's surprising, because it was in the top ten in '66, when drug songs

(e.g. 8 Miles High) were still getting themselves banned. (Or so I

remember.)

-- wally

Every time I think that I'm the only one who's lonely

Someone calls on me

And every now and then I spend my time at rhyme and verse

And curse those faults in me

And then along comes

And does she want to give me kicks and be my steady chick

And give me pick of memories

Or maybe rather gather tales from all the fails and tribulations

No one ever sees

When we met I was sure out to lunch

Now my empty cup tastes as sweet as the punch

When vague desire is the fire in the eyes of chicks

Whose sickness is the games they play

And when the masquerade is played and neighbor folks make jokes

On who is most to blame today

And then along comes

And does she want to set them free and let them see reality

From where she got her name

And will they struggle much when told that such a tender touch of hers

Will make them not the same

When we met I was sure out to lunch

Now my empty cup tastes as sweet as the punch

And when the morning of the warning's passed, the gassed and flaccid kids

Are flung across the stars

The psychodramas and the traumas gone

The songs are left unsung and hung upon the scars

And then along comes

And does she want to see the stains, the dead remains of all the pains

She left the night before

Or will their waking eyes reflect the lies and make them realize

Their urgent cry for sight no more

When we met I was sure out to lunch

Now my empty cup tastes as sweet as the punch

May 4, 2000

Wally --

Encore! Encore! (??with dope you hopewith booze you loose!!)

Best bit of verse I've read in quite some time (and I'm a poetry critic

amongst othert things). Where do you keep the sound link so's we can hear

you sing it? You'd never get away with it at AA unless you claimed the song

was your Higher Power -- you can get away weith anything then. Oh well, as

Jimi said " Not necessarily stoned, just beautiful " (vide

http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/jimi.html

http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/hendrix.html).

Any Dolphy fans in the house? " Out to Lunch " is such a marvellous

album, and he such a wonderful musician.

Hasta la vista,

Doug.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: <12-step-freeegroups>

>Subject: Re: Bill's Trip

>Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 17:49:50 -0400

>

>-----Original Message-----

>

> >

> >The rock group The Association in 1967 had a hit called which I think

>was

> >called

> >

> > " Along comes . " I don't remember it all but the lyrics definitely

> >pertained to grass. Some of the words near the end were " She's got the

>punch,

> >she's got the punch, " then something about " if I don't see really see

> >reality...

> >Well it was 33 years ago. lol

> >

>

>Here it is. Does indeed seem like it could be about ol' J. Rooney.

>That's surprising, because it was in the top ten in '66, when drug songs

>(e.g. 8 Miles High) were still getting themselves banned. (Or so I

>remember.)

>

>-- wally

>

>Every time I think that I'm the only one who's lonely

>Someone calls on me

>And every now and then I spend my time at rhyme and verse

>And curse those faults in me

>

>And then along comes

>And does she want to give me kicks and be my steady chick

>And give me pick of memories

>Or maybe rather gather tales from all the fails and tribulations

>No one ever sees

>

>When we met I was sure out to lunch

>Now my empty cup tastes as sweet as the punch

>

>When vague desire is the fire in the eyes of chicks

>Whose sickness is the games they play

>And when the masquerade is played and neighbor folks make jokes

>On who is most to blame today

>

>And then along comes

>And does she want to set them free and let them see reality

>From where she got her name

>And will they struggle much when told that such a tender touch of hers

>Will make them not the same

>

>When we met I was sure out to lunch

>Now my empty cup tastes as sweet as the punch

>

>And when the morning of the warning's passed, the gassed and flaccid kids

>Are flung across the stars

>The psychodramas and the traumas gone

>The songs are left unsung and hung upon the scars

>

>And then along comes

>And does she want to see the stains, the dead remains of all the pains

>She left the night before

>Or will their waking eyes reflect the lies and make them realize

>Their urgent cry for sight no more

>

>When we met I was sure out to lunch

>Now my empty cup tastes as sweet as the punch

>

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

May 4, 2000

Doug, did you miss the context? I didn't write that. If I could I'd quit my

day job. Those are the actual lyrics to the 1966 Association song " Along

Comes , " written by someone named Tandyn Almer, whoever he was. I just

typed it in because had mentioned the song, I always thought it was

a good one, and I doubt that 1 in 100 listeners ever caught all the words.

If you want to hear it, The Association's Greatest Hits album is probably

still around.

Btw if it's good verse, it's better song. The effect of that barrage of

internal rhyme that comes sometimes with the beat, sometimes off, sometimes

against, is a real rush, as we used to say ;-0

-- wally

Re: Bill's Trip

>Wally --

>Encore! Encore! (??with dope you hopewith booze you loose!!)

>Best bit of verse I've read in quite some time (and I'm a poetry critic

>amongst othert things). Where do you keep the sound link so's we can hear

>you sing it? You'd never get away with it at AA unless you claimed the

song

>was your Higher Power -- you can get away weith anything then. Oh well, as

>Jimi said " Not necessarily stoned, just beautiful " (vide

>http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/jimi.html

>http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/hendrix.html).

>Any Dolphy fans in the house? " Out to Lunch " is such a marvellous

>album, and he such a wonderful musician.

>Hasta la vista,

>Doug.

>

May 4, 2000

Dear Wally,

No, I didn't miss the context, and I clearly remember the song (along with

many another whose like we shall not see again, not in the present climate

anyway -- things like " Psychotic Reaction " , " My White Bicycle " , and the

complete works of Arhtur Brown come to mind). We were lucky, I sometimes

think, getting it all new when we did and were young, free, and mad enough

to make the best we could of it. I'm amazed at the kids now, who seem to

value most highly the sort of music I was listening to (and in some cases

still am) over 30 years ago.

Just thanks for the post and happy trails,

later,

Doug.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: <12-step-freeegroups>

>Subject: Re: Bill's Trip

>Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 20:37:45 -0400

>

>Doug, did you miss the context? I didn't write that. If I could I'd quit my

>day job. Those are the actual lyrics to the 1966 Association song " Along

>Comes , " written by someone named Tandyn Almer, whoever he was. I just

>typed it in because had mentioned the song, I always thought it was

>a good one, and I doubt that 1 in 100 listeners ever caught all the words.

>If you want to hear it, The Association's Greatest Hits album is probably

>still around.

>

>Btw if it's good verse, it's better song. The effect of that barrage of

>internal rhyme that comes sometimes with the beat, sometimes off, sometimes

>against, is a real rush, as we used to say ;-0

>

>-- wally

>

> Re: Bill's Trip

>

> >Wally --

> >Encore! Encore! (??with dope you hopewith booze you loose!!)

> >Best bit of verse I've read in quite some time (and I'm a poetry critic

> >amongst othert things). Where do you keep the sound link so's we can hear

> >you sing it? You'd never get away with it at AA unless you claimed the

>song

> >was your Higher Power -- you can get away weith anything then. Oh well,

>as

> >Jimi said " Not necessarily stoned, just beautiful " (vide

> >http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/jimi.html

> >http://www.geocities.com/bouglaf/hendrix.html).

> >Any Dolphy fans in the house? " Out to Lunch " is such a marvellous

> >album, and he such a wonderful musician.

> >Hasta la vista,

> >Doug.

> >

>

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

May 4, 2000

> Btw if it's good verse, it's better song. The effect of that

barrage

of

> internal rhyme that comes sometimes with the beat, sometimes off,

sometimes

> against, is a real rush, as we used to say ;-0

this is one of my favorite songs--very positive associations (no pun

intended) with memories of hearing it on the car radio, many years

ago...

Judith

May 6, 2000

Hi, Doug.

Just wondering if you were a Captain Beefheart fan, I think I remember seeing

a " collected works " that came out recently.

In a message dated 5/4/00 7:48:13 PM Central Daylight Time,

doug_houston@... writes:

<< Dear Wally,

No, I didn't miss the context, and I clearly remember the song (along with

many another whose like we shall not see again, not in the present climate

anyway -- things like " Psychotic Reaction " , " My White Bicycle " , and the

complete works of Arhtur Brown come to mind). We were lucky, I sometimes

think, getting it all new when we did and were young, free, and mad enough

to make the best we could of it. I'm amazed at the kids now, who seem to

value most highly the sort of music I was listening to (and in some cases

still am) over 30 years ago.

Just thanks for the post and happy trails,

later,

Doug. >>

May 13, 2000

For a good laugh, watch MTV videos with the sound turned all the way

down. When you know how serious the groups take themselves and their

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