Guest guest Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 Hi Patti Do you think doing the test at the end of the round was why they were showing low? I ask becasue we did Sam's bloods 2 weeks ago, waiting on results, they were taken on day 3 of round. I managed to talk the Consultant Ped into doing blood level also - just interested. Thanks Mandi in UK > we are chelating my son for lead and mercury with DMSA/ALA and we did > testing for his neutrophils the day after our round stopped and he was > below reference range for his neutrophils as well. We waited 2 weeks > after the round and they came up on their own into the lowest end of > the reference range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 -, we are chelating my son for lead and mercury with DMSA/ALA and we did testing for his neutrophils the day after our round stopped and he was below reference range for his neutrophils as well. We waited 2 weeks after the round and they came up on their own into the lowest end of the reference range. We then decided to only chelate once a month and we give zinc 3 times a day. I use pure coconut butter in his foods preperation as I believe the coconut butter helps raise neutrophil levels. Since adopting this protocal his neutrophils have been fine every time we test. Read in the files section under neutropenia for more info. Patti -- In , " Griffiths " <rp46285@o...> wrote: > Lab tests just back. > > Both my daughter and I who have been doing chelation... DMSA/ALA have below reference range for Neutrophils. > > I really want to continue as I want to get the lead out. > > Anybody have personal similar experience and what did you do to raise the neutrophil count? > > Many thanks, > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 -Mandi, Yes we thought his neutrophils showed up so low because it was right after his round was finished that is why we re-tested 2 weeks later and they were much better. I would suggest testing again 2 weeks after the round to determine how they are rising. Patti -- In , Mum231ASD@a... wrote: > Hi Patti > Do you think doing the test at the end of the round was why they were showing > low? I ask becasue we did Sam's bloods 2 weeks ago, waiting on results, they > were taken on day 3 of round. I managed to talk the Consultant Ped into doing > blood level also - just interested. Thanks > Mandi in UK > > > we are chelating my son for lead and mercury with DMSA/ALA and we did > > testing for his neutrophils the day after our round stopped and he was > > below reference range for his neutrophils as well. We waited 2 weeks > > after the round and they came up on their own into the lowest end of > > the reference range. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 > > > > Just looking back through some old lab work and reviewed our Natural > > Killer cells lab. Our Neutrophils were markedly low, at 18% (ref > > range 25 - 42%). > > I'm not sure what you are looking at. You want the absolute > neutrophil count. A low percentage just means one of the other > types of white cells is high. Ah, didn't know that. It's just listed as " Neutrophils " on the lab report, with the above percentage and range, and flagged as low. I figured " low " and " neutrophils " was a bad combination! Further down the page it does list absolute Neutrophils: 1.7 (ref range 1.5 - 7.1). > We tried the Neutrophil Plus product last month but > > my son reacted badly to it, and yeast actually got decidedly worse. > > This might just mean he was getting die-off effects (which can look > like worsened yeast symptoms). Are you using probiotics? What > about antifungals? We have experienced tons of die-off, never anything like this. It seemed to bring back old stims he hadn't done in many months, while all of his usual yeasty behaviors remained or worsened. We have also never had die-off last 4 days, nor did it respond to charcoal. We are using 200 billion Custom Probiotics daily, Diflucan, Yeast-Aid and tons of GSE (at the time). We are now using Oil of Oregano along with Diflucan and finally getting control of the yeast. > If you post the dose, frequency, and the nature of the reaction, > folks may have suggestions about what the problem is. I posted about this in Message #'s 190184 & 192397. Here's the short overview version: 6 mg DMSA every 4 hours around the clock for 3 days on, 4 days off. Did this for 2 weeks (2 rounds) & then quit because behavior & gut had completely regressed; lots of details in those 2 posts. It has taken 2 months to return him mostly to his previous condition, though his gut has still not fully recovered. For example, we still aren't back to the semi-formed poops we had finally achieved before trying DMSA. I got many good responses to my posts; I now know I should have started at a lower dose, and I probably should have waited 11 days in between rounds. I can't say for sure, but my guess is that he still would have reacted. My intuition is bugging me on this. I am pretty certain my son's awful reaction and the months of resulting cleanup and repair are not just because of yeast. In some way that I can't pinpoint yet, my son did not " tolerate " DMSA. I am digging and learning more to determine why, and so far the likely candidates appear to be sulphur and/or neutrophils. His high plasma cystine worries me too and I'm trying to determine if that points to a sulphur problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 > > > > > > Just looking back through some old lab work and reviewed our Natural > > > Killer cells lab. Our Neutrophils were markedly low, at 18% (ref > > > range 25 - 42%). > > > > I'm not sure what you are looking at. You want the absolute > > neutrophil count. A low percentage just means one of the other > > types of white cells is high. > > Ah, didn't know that. It's just listed as " Neutrophils " on the lab > report, with the above percentage and range, and flagged as low. I > figured " low " and " neutrophils " was a bad combination! Further down > the page it does list absolute Neutrophils: 1.7 (ref range 1.5 - 7.1). 1.7 absolute neutrophils is okay. If the absolute count goes below 1.0, that is a big concern and potentially dangerous. 1.0-1.5 is questionable - you think about what might be going on and possibly repeat the test in a couple of weeks. I think the danger threshold of 1.0 is the same for children and adults, but I'm not positive. I'm sure you can check this with a google search. The percentage may have been low because another type, such as lymphs, was elevated. Maybe something viral was going on at the time of the blood test. > > We tried the Neutrophil Plus product last month but > > > my son reacted badly to it, and yeast actually got decidedly worse. > > > > This might just mean he was getting die-off effects (which can look > > like worsened yeast symptoms). Are you using probiotics? What > > about antifungals? > > We have experienced tons of die-off, never anything like this. It > seemed to bring back old stims he hadn't done in many months, while > all of his usual yeasty behaviors remained or worsened. We have also > never had die-off last 4 days, nor did it respond to charcoal. > > We are using 200 billion Custom Probiotics daily, Diflucan, Yeast-Aid > and tons of GSE (at the time). We are now using Oil of Oregano along > with Diflucan and finally getting control of the yeast. Sounds like the Neutrophil Plus product just isn't for you - maybe he is sensitive to an ingredient. I checked and it contains vitamin A, copper, and various other things that could possibly cause problems. He sounds like a sensitive kid and you probably want to stick to single ingredients so you know what is causing problems. If he needs neutrophil support (the 1.7 value is not bad, but maybe it gets lower on rounds), check the neutrophils file in the Files section and maybe you can find something that is tolerated. > > If you post the dose, frequency, and the nature of the reaction, > > folks may have suggestions about what the problem is. > > I posted about this in Message #'s 190184 & 192397. Here's the short > overview version: 6 mg DMSA every 4 hours around the clock for 3 days > on, 4 days off. Did this for 2 weeks (2 rounds) & then quit because > behavior & gut had completely regressed; lots of details in those 2 > posts. I read through some of the previous postings. I really agree with the idea of using a lower dose of DMSA. I am a 135 lb adult and I had to start at 10 mg. I have heard of adults starting even lower than that. Once you find a tolerated dose, stick to it for at least several rounds before you even think about increasing. Does he still have yellow poop? That could mean not enough bile and you might want to try taurine or other things to support bile flow. > It has taken 2 months to return him mostly to his previous condition, > though his gut has still not fully recovered. For example, we still > aren't back to the semi-formed poops we had finally achieved before > trying DMSA. > > I got many good responses to my posts; I now know I should have > started at a lower dose, and I probably should have waited 11 days in > between rounds. I can't say for sure, but my guess is that he still > would have reacted. My intuition is bugging me on this. I am pretty > certain my son's awful reaction and the months of resulting cleanup > and repair are not just because of yeast. In some way that I can't > pinpoint yet, my son did not " tolerate " DMSA. I am digging and > learning more to determine why, and so far the likely candidates > appear to be sulphur and/or neutrophils. His high plasma cystine > worries me too and I'm trying to determine if that points to a sulphur > problem. I think the best way to decide if he does not tolerate sulfur is to eliminate it from diet/supps for about 2 weeks, then eat a lot of it for a day. If he initially seems better ( " emotionally bouncy " is Andy's term) and then gets a lot worse a few hours later, I believe that is the classic sulfur food reaction. Sulfury things are dairy, eggs, broccoli, cauliflower, turnips, garlic, beans, whey, cabbage, kale, onions. Check the archives to make sure I haven't missed anything, but I think that's a fairly good list. MSM, NAC, cysteine should be excluded from supplements. -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 > > 1.7 absolute neutrophils is okay. If the absolute count goes below > 1.0, that is a big concern and potentially dangerous. 1.0-1.5 is > questionable - you think about what might be going on and possibly > repeat the test in a couple of weeks. I think the danger threshold > of 1.0 is the same for children and adults, but I'm not positive. > I'm sure you can check this with a google search. > > The percentage may have been low because another type, such as > lymphs, was elevated. Maybe something viral was going on at > the time of the blood test. Could be. His lymphs were average (6.3, ref rng 2.9 - 13.3). His platelets were high, as was Eos (0.8, ref rng 0.0 - 0.9). No clue what that means. > Sounds like the Neutrophil Plus product just isn't for you - maybe > he is sensitive to an ingredient. I checked and it contains > vitamin A, copper, and various other things that could possibly > cause problems. He sounds like a sensitive kid and you probably > want to stick to single ingredients so you know what is causing > problems. > > If he needs neutrophil support (the 1.7 value is not bad, but > maybe it gets lower on rounds), check the neutrophils file in the > Files section and maybe you can find something that is tolerated. Thanks, will do. > I read through some of the previous postings. I really agree with > the idea of using a lower dose of DMSA. I am a 135 lb adult and > I had to start at 10 mg. I have heard of adults starting even > lower than that. Once you find a tolerated dose, stick to it for > at least several rounds before you even think about increasing. > > Does he still have yellow poop? That could mean not enough bile > and you might want to try taurine or other things to support bile > flow. The yellow poop was worst on rounds. It would usually improve to at least a caramel color after that. The poop finally " browned " a bit when I started OLE a few weeks ago. (Sorry so gross!!) We've supplemented with taurine for months but never saw anything. Went off it for a few weeks, saw no difference. His taurine levels were right in the middle of the ref range when we tested plasma amino acids a few months ago. So taurine might not be necessary for him. I supplemented anyway because he has never shown any response to mB12 shots, and I read in the Pangborn/Baker book to try taurine. But we still saw nothing (and folinic didn't help either). My kiddo just doesn't seem to be a responder to much! > I think the best way to decide if he does not tolerate sulfur > is to eliminate it from diet/supps for about 2 weeks, then eat > a lot of it for a day. If he initially seems better ( " emotionally > bouncy " is Andy's term) and then gets a lot worse a few hours > later, I believe that is the classic sulfur food reaction. > > Sulfury things are dairy, eggs, broccoli, cauliflower, turnips, > garlic, beans, whey, cabbage, kale, onions. Check the archives > to make sure I haven't missed anything, but I think that's a fairly > good list. MSM, NAC, cysteine should be excluded from supplements. Thanks , this sounds like a great plan. He does not currently eat any " sulfur foods " , so I will try adding in some broccoli or cauliflower. He unfortunately has a mild IgG reaction (+1) to almost all of the sulfur foods you mentioned, so this will definitely increase his diarrhea, but I think it's a worthwhile sacrifice for one day if it solves the sulfur mystery once and for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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