if only they could admit it

[Guest guest]

Today I just watched an episode of Fringe and there's a character on there

Walter Bishop who was institutionalized for some schizophrenic type problems.

He has been taken out of the institution to do " mad scientist " stuff and

" managed " by his son . Tonight he tried to push to be more independent, go

places by himself, but he got lost and couldn't remember his son's phone number.

His response to this was to admit he had a ways to go to be independent, that

his son shouldn't have to be responsible for him, and to give himself a tracking

device so his son could find him if he gets lost again.

This scene brought me to tears. To see a parent who is mentally compromised

admit it, acknowledge the sacrifice they ask of their adult child, and change

their behavior because of it. Wow, well I guess it is fiction. I can't say

what it would mean if my nada could just admit it, that she has issues, has done

damage, has bad judgment that hurts others and so be open to input. The

tragedy of BPD and NPD is that unless they are very low functioning their

craziness is hidden from the world, but inflicted on those closest to them. And

it is craziness, a distortion of reality, but they'll never admit it. It's a

craziness that drags others into it and makes sure to make them pay if they

don't play along.

[Guest guest]

You're right; bpd is nothing less than a tragedy. Its tragic both for the

person who has it but more so for the children of bpds. Their children suffer

potentially *life-altering* damage (if not death) from incompetent,

empathy-less, negligent or punitive bpd parenting.

In my opinion, if that TV character Walter Bishop had bpd he would in the next

episode (after having displayed that poignant personal insight and owning

responsibility for his own behaviors) deny having said *any* of those things,

blame his son for causing all his problems, and accuse his son of being crazy

and hateful for even suggesting that he had bpd. *That* would be more

realistic.

That is what happened with my nada. After 6 months of weekly therapy, my nada

wrote a letter to Sister and me in which she expressed remorse for having caused

us pain. In this letter nada took responsibility for her dysfunctional behaviors

and said that she would make every effort to use the techniques she was learning

to control her emotional extremes and responses, etc. It was like a miracle had

happened! Our nada seemed cured!

Well, it was not for real. After Sister resumed contact with nada, it only took

a few weeks for nada to revert to her old behaviors and attack Sister viciously

for a perceived offense. (The offense: Sister was a few minutes late arriving

to pick up nada to drive her to an appointment.)

When Sister arrived nada went ballistic on her; nada claimed that Sister and I

are the crazy ones and that we are hateful, ungrateful, horrible children. Nada

screamed that we are liars to claim that she inflicted emotional and physical

abuse on us. She insisted that she was always the perfect mother, that there is

nothing wrong with her, and she only went into therapy because we forced her to.

So, the letter full of remorse that nada read to Sister, awash in tearful

entreaties for forgiveness, the letter in which she accepting responsibility for

her own behaviors... was just a sham: it was just a tactic to get us to resume

contact. She didn't really mean it at all.

TV is often very different from reality.

-Annie

PS: I like " Fringe " too!

>

> Today I just watched an episode of Fringe and there's a character on there

Walter Bishop who was institutionalized for some schizophrenic type problems.

He has been taken out of the institution to do " mad scientist " stuff and

" managed " by his son . Tonight he tried to push to be more independent, go

places by himself, but he got lost and couldn't remember his son's phone number.

His response to this was to admit he had a ways to go to be independent, that

his son shouldn't have to be responsible for him, and to give himself a tracking

device so his son could find him if he gets lost again.

>

> This scene brought me to tears. To see a parent who is mentally compromised

admit it, acknowledge the sacrifice they ask of their adult child, and change

their behavior because of it. Wow, well I guess it is fiction. I can't say

what it would mean if my nada could just admit it, that she has issues, has done

damage, has bad judgment that hurts others and so be open to input. The

tragedy of BPD and NPD is that unless they are very low functioning their

craziness is hidden from the world, but inflicted on those closest to them. And

it is craziness, a distortion of reality, but they'll never admit it. It's a

craziness that drags others into it and makes sure to make them pay if they

don't play along.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, I really feel for you pain in what your nada's reversal must have been

like. For her to seem to admit to everything and commit to cure and then to

reverse like that is just horrible. I wonder how your sister deals with still

being in contact after that? Mine did something very similar. She never

admitted mental problems, but she did briefly take some responsibility when I

threatened a continued NC. Much later I found out that she'd completely

rewritten the story that the problem was that I was becoming unglued and she

basically remembered nothing of what she owned. So you said it best - it's a

tragedy, that's the word.

About TV/reality, I do wonder if real people like Walter Bishop who have been

institutionalized, who have had official mental illnesses like schizophrenia are

more likely to admit they have it and have regrets about the impact they have on

others. It seems the interpersonal cruelty and denial is a Cluster B thing.

Having a mother with a severe illness like schizophrenia would be a harrowing

experience, but I bet it's a lot more clear to see who is the crazy one or to

get resources from the outside for help. Not meaning to make light of their

situation just frustrated with the admissions and validations that never come.

> >

> > Today I just watched an episode of Fringe and there's a character on there

Walter Bishop who was institutionalized for some schizophrenic type problems.

He has been taken out of the institution to do " mad scientist " stuff and

" managed " by his son . Tonight he tried to push to be more independent, go

places by himself, but he got lost and couldn't remember his son's phone number.

His response to this was to admit he had a ways to go to be independent, that

his son shouldn't have to be responsible for him, and to give himself a tracking

device so his son could find him if he gets lost again.

> >

> > This scene brought me to tears. To see a parent who is mentally compromised

admit it, acknowledge the sacrifice they ask of their adult child, and change

their behavior because of it. Wow, well I guess it is fiction. I can't say

what it would mean if my nada could just admit it, that she has issues, has done

damage, has bad judgment that hurts others and so be open to input. The

tragedy of BPD and NPD is that unless they are very low functioning their

craziness is hidden from the world, but inflicted on those closest to them. And

it is craziness, a distortion of reality, but they'll never admit it. It's a

craziness that drags others into it and makes sure to make them pay if they

don't play along.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I watch that too. It was touching to hear someone admit they have a

problem and need help, something we, in reality, will never hear our BPD/NP

parents say. You are absolutely right in you last few sentences about the

BPD/NP parent :-(

Jackie

Today I just watched an episode of Fringe and there's a character on there

Walter Bishop who was institutionalized for some schizophrenic type

problems. He has been taken out of the institution to do " mad scientist "

stuff and " managed " by his son . Tonight he tried to push to be more

independent, go places by himself, but he got lost and couldn't remember his

son's phone number. His response to this was to admit he had a ways to go

to be independent, that his son shouldn't have to be responsible for him,

and to give himself a tracking device so his son could find him if he gets

lost again.

This scene brought me to tears. To see a parent who is mentally compromised

admit it, acknowledge the sacrifice they ask of their adult child, and

change their behavior because of it. Wow, well I guess it is fiction. I

can't say what it would mean if my nada could just admit it, that she has

issues, has done damage, has bad judgment that hurts others and so be open

to input. The tragedy of BPD and NPD is that unless they are very low

functioning their craziness is hidden from the world, but inflicted on those

closest to them. And it is craziness, a distortion of reality, but they'll

never admit it. It's a craziness that drags others into it and makes sure

to make them pay if they don't play along.

[Guest guest]

Ditto... bought those feelings up in me too!

I just kept thinking, how to " tranq dart with a tage " her so I'd know where she

is when she, ultimately, goes off to kill herself...

The more I " see it " in her, the more I realize how abnormal my life could be

again if I don't live it for me and mine.

Lynnette

>

> Today I just watched an episode of Fringe and there's a character on there

Walter Bishop who was institutionalized for some schizophrenic type problems.

He has been taken out of the institution to do " mad scientist " stuff and

" managed " by his son . Tonight he tried to push to be more independent, go

places by himself, but he got lost and couldn't remember his son's phone number.

His response to this was to admit he had a ways to go to be independent, that

his son shouldn't have to be responsible for him, and to give himself a tracking

device so his son could find him if he gets lost again.

>

> This scene brought me to tears. To see a parent who is mentally compromised

admit it, acknowledge the sacrifice they ask of their adult child, and change

their behavior because of it. Wow, well I guess it is fiction. I can't say

what it would mean if my nada could just admit it, that she has issues, has done

damage, has bad judgment that hurts others and so be open to input. The

tragedy of BPD and NPD is that unless they are very low functioning their

craziness is hidden from the world, but inflicted on those closest to them. And

it is craziness, a distortion of reality, but they'll never admit it. It's a

craziness that drags others into it and makes sure to make them pay if they

don't play along.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I personally have known two schizophrenics, and they both knew and admitted that

they had that problem, and that they could not always tell what was real.

Definitely a whole different animal than the Cluster B, like you said!

> > >

> > > Today I just watched an episode of Fringe and there's a character on there

Walter Bishop who was institutionalized for some schizophrenic type problems.

He has been taken out of the institution to do " mad scientist " stuff and

" managed " by his son . Tonight he tried to push to be more independent, go

places by himself, but he got lost and couldn't remember his son's phone number.

His response to this was to admit he had a ways to go to be independent, that

his son shouldn't have to be responsible for him, and to give himself a tracking

device so his son could find him if he gets lost again.

> > >

> > > This scene brought me to tears. To see a parent who is mentally

compromised admit it, acknowledge the sacrifice they ask of their adult child,

and change their behavior because of it. Wow, well I guess it is fiction. I

can't say what it would mean if my nada could just admit it, that she has

issues, has done damage, has bad judgment that hurts others and so be open to

input. The tragedy of BPD and NPD is that unless they are very low functioning

their craziness is hidden from the world, but inflicted on those closest to

them. And it is craziness, a distortion of reality, but they'll never admit it.

It's a craziness that drags others into it and makes sure to make them pay if

they don't play along.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Makes me wonder too. I haven't read much about schizophrenia; all I know is that

it features frequent (if not constant) psychosis: breaks with reality. The

psychotic person hears a voice or sees someone/something but can't tell if that

voice or that person exists only in their own mind or if its real. They truly

can't tell the difference.

I find it interesting that many years ago, when psychiatrists were working on

the DSM and debating how to classify and diagnose the various mental illnesses,

they considered " borderline " pd to be on the " border " between psychosis and

neurosis.

The more I consider the concept that my nada is actually living in her own

version of reality, the more I think that that earlier way of defining bpd is

more accurate. Perhaps the " Cluster B " personality disorders are different

subsets of " schizophrenia lite " .

The DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) is constantly being revised &

updated as new scientific data becomes available and as our culture evolves

(homosexuality is no longer considered to be a mental illness, as it once was)

so, who knows?

-Annie

> > >

> > > Today I just watched an episode of Fringe and there's a character on there

Walter Bishop who was institutionalized for some schizophrenic type problems.

He has been taken out of the institution to do " mad scientist " stuff and

" managed " by his son . Tonight he tried to push to be more independent, go

places by himself, but he got lost and couldn't remember his son's phone number.

His response to this was to admit he had a ways to go to be independent, that

his son shouldn't have to be responsible for him, and to give himself a tracking

device so his son could find him if he gets lost again.

> > >

> > > This scene brought me to tears. To see a parent who is mentally

compromised admit it, acknowledge the sacrifice they ask of their adult child,

and change their behavior because of it. Wow, well I guess it is fiction. I

can't say what it would mean if my nada could just admit it, that she has

issues, has done damage, has bad judgment that hurts others and so be open to

input. The tragedy of BPD and NPD is that unless they are very low functioning

their craziness is hidden from the world, but inflicted on those closest to

them. And it is craziness, a distortion of reality, but they'll never admit it.

It's a craziness that drags others into it and makes sure to make them pay if

they don't play along.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oh Annie...

ONLY IN THIS GROUP would we all go, yeah, uhuh, ok, with your phrase,

" schizophrenia lite. " OMG! LOLOLOL

Supposedly Nada leaves for her home today... after a week of fun filled

activities....

I hope tomorrow the ptsd shaking stops....

Lynnette

> > > >

> > > > Today I just watched an episode of Fringe and there's a character on

there Walter Bishop who was institutionalized for some schizophrenic type

problems. He has been taken out of the institution to do " mad scientist " stuff

and " managed " by his son . Tonight he tried to push to be more

independent, go places by himself, but he got lost and couldn't remember his

son's phone number. His response to this was to admit he had a ways to go to

be independent, that his son shouldn't have to be responsible for him, and to

give himself a tracking device so his son could find him if he gets lost again.

> > > >

> > > > This scene brought me to tears. To see a parent who is mentally

compromised admit it, acknowledge the sacrifice they ask of their adult child,

and change their behavior because of it. Wow, well I guess it is fiction. I

can't say what it would mean if my nada could just admit it, that she has

issues, has done damage, has bad judgment that hurts others and so be open to

input. The tragedy of BPD and NPD is that unless they are very low functioning

their craziness is hidden from the world, but inflicted on those closest to

them. And it is craziness, a distortion of reality, but they'll never admit it.

It's a craziness that drags others into it and makes sure to make them pay if

they don't play along.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I know what you mean about the political motives indeed. My daughter was in a

small private school and had an undiagnosed learning disability. She and I were

both treated with such disrespect, with cruelty by some, but indifference of

others who I went to for help.

We changed schools and after three years, we had problems again, stemming from

her mild, but significant weaknesses. She was the target of a PD teacher at the

first school, the target of a serious bully of the second...I found out her

learning disability made her vulnerable to bullying after getting her tested

toward the end of our 3 years at the 2nd school. Anyway, their cruelty was

politically motivated and it hurt me and my daughter terribly. It has been 2 and

1/2 years and I recently drove past the old school which is now far from me. It

did not hurt! it was such a joy. It did not hurt at all.

Hang in there . You are well on your way, I'm sure. I'm giving another

plug for domestic violence counseling which is free, if you did not read my post

on it. It is offered most places, I believe, for men too, just in a separate

location. It is very helpful for emotional abuse victims too.

Leanne

Leanne

Subject: Re: if only they could admit it

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 12:14 PM

 

Thanks, Leanne.

Once I was fired by a psycho-bitch- from-hell BP boss, when I worked in the

private sector for a year.

Ironically the other time I was canned it was by the administration of a school

district that were psycho-bitch- from-hell BP bosses, so the business motive was

not as significant as their political motives. And schools are supposed to be

all about people, but this one district was not. The trauma of what they did led

me to take two years off from teaching school (I started collecting my

retirement). I may go back next year, as I am recovering from the PTSD that

stemmed from working for them.

The therapy suggestion is a good one. Right now I don't have the spare cash to

afford therapy, though. Even sliding scale is not feasible, as I am barely

holding my own what with the bills and all.

Thanks again, Leanne.

>

> From: Panda <guojian53@. ..>

> Subject: Re: if only they could admit it

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> Date: Saturday, December 5, 2009, 1:01 PM

>

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> Hmm. If my fada, BP brother, my former psycho-bitch- from-hell BP bosses

could admit they actually were BP . . .

>

>

>

> If then, I don't know what. Most likely it will never happen. Why do I need to

worry if it would happen? Oh well.

>

>

>

> Here is an interesting issue: how does one deal well with a psycho-bitch-

from-hell BP boss? You can't simply go NC with them, because they control your

income. What do you do?

>

>

>

> One time I left a job that I loved and co-workers I loved because of a

psycho-bitch- from-hell BP boss. Couple of other times I got fired by a

psycho-bitch- from-hell BP boss. Is there an answer to how to interact with

them?

>

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