Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

[Guest guest]

" he looks so sweet, too bad we know better. "

That is just HORRIBLE!!!! Know better than what? Even though I know better it

still amazes me when I read things like that. Its just outer limits weird.

Anyway...Sorry you have to deal with this...especially if this is the lesser of

two evils.

Jen

>

> False,

> this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost 7

years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that *I*

was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to realize

that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering his

past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood whenever

she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP!!!!! " squealsssssss.) I

would have NO contact with her if not for the useless BPexhubby.

>

> charlene~

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

> I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very

much like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my

mother will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you

doubt yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

>

> I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

>

> I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

>

> Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

>

> Malinda

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Malinda,

Im not sure running from one abusive environment to another is self-sabotage. I

think many of us have done that. We know what we know and what's familiar is

comfortable. No shame in that...and good that you recognize it. Its possible

that you recognize the tweaky behavior of your husband more in the absence of

tweaky nada behavior simply because you can.

Also...In terms of the " going so far and then retreating " , its like you gotta

take baby steps. And sometimes you take three steps forward only to take two

back...but at the end of the day you are still one whole step forward. Try not

to be too hard on yourself about that. Just do the best that YOU can do (not

what someone else thinks is the best that you can do) every day and eventually

you'll find your way out of the dark.

Best to you,

Jen

>

> I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

>

> I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

>

> Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

>

> Malinda

>

[Guest guest]

she said the same about me as a kid. She would say that she was " just joking " if

you called her on the comment. She called me the devil child, etc. She would

either have everyone thinking I was the perfect princess or the devil incarnate,

depending on her level of displeasure with me. She would tell me what a HORRIBLE

person my father was, I never got to know him so I don't know the truth, and

when I did not do as she wanted she would SCRREECH " You are JUST LIKE YOUR

FATHER!!!! " My mom is a verbal abuser, she was also an alcoholic when I was a

kid and in abusive relationship after abusive relationship. She worked nights

and slept days so I raised myself and my younger (adopted, who she had NO

BUSINESS adopting) brother. Nada is on meds now, not drinking, and not in a

relationship for years so this is the TAME version of her. BPexhubby was

physically violent (mostly destroying property and himself but I was injured

" indirectly " sometimes too), would RAGE

at me and self harm in front of our son, and so on and so on. I won't explain

it all because it is horribly traumatic and I am still afraid of him and worry

that he might come after me when I don't do as he wishes.

charlene~

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:57:48 PM

Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

" he looks so sweet, too bad we know better. "

That is just HORRIBLE!!!! Know better than what? Even though I know better it

still amazes me when I read things like that. Its just outer limits weird.

Anyway...Sorry you have to deal with this...especially if this is the lesser of

two evils.

Jen

>

> False,

> this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost 7

years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that *I*

was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to realize

that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering his

past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood whenever

she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP!!!!! " squealsssssss.) I

would have NO contact with her if not for the useless BPexhubby.

>

> charlene~

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

> I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very

much like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my

mother will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you

doubt yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

>

> I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

>

> I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

>

> Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

>

> Malinda

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I totally understand. It is sometimes hard to read here and post/share. Brings

it all to the forefront so to speak. The horrors you describe about your BPex

in regards to your son are like a page torn out of the book of my life with my

BP/sociopath/whatever the heck is wrong with him FADA. So you can imagine how

much I loved hearing from my NADA that I am " just like " my Fada when she would

be displeased with me...or my brother for that matter.

Aaahhh...the things we've all endured. It really does boggle the mind.

Jen

> >

> > False,

> > this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost 7

years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that *I*

was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to realize

that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> > kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering

his past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood

whenever she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP!!!!! "

squealsssssss.) I would have NO contact with her if not for the useless

BPexhubby.

> >

> > charlene~

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: false <cricketsandwildflowers@>

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> >

> > I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very

much like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my

mother will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you

doubt yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: maparise17 <malinda024@>

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> > Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

> >

> >

> > I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

> >

> > I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

> >

> > Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

> >

> > Malinda

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Malinda, I would suggest you want the love you're not getting. My recent thread

about " still wanting it " or some title close to that is really about that for

me. If I didn't still want it on some level I could tell her what I thought,

how it was going to be, hold the line. I can't say for sure if it's the same

for you, but try the idea out for size. What do you get for staying? What do

you get for allowing the abuse? Then there's the other pov which is that being

abused long-term by a mother and then a husband whittles down your reserve

strength and confidence to make a change. Just the simple energy, motivation

and belief to do it may be affected and needs to be rebuilt. And here's an

option 3 - it may be that your marriage makes you feel safer from your nada.

Or your nada makes you feel safer from your husband. I was in a long-term

relationship with someone who is emotionally abusive to me in part because he

helped me feel safe and separate from my FOO - he wasn't good to me either, but

once I got rid of him I became more vulnerable to them. Just a few thoughts to

ponder....but like you guys have said to me take it easy on yourself, this whole

situation is a set-up.

>

> I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

>

> I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

>

> Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

>

> Malinda

>

[Guest guest]

Hi False,

I did the same as you. went from BPD nada to BPD long term boyfriend. I was

telling a psychologist friend of my mom’s latest suicide threat and was in

agony or I wouldn’t have bothered her about it. Forgot she was a psychologist

lol. She told me sounds like she’s BPD and I had no idea what she was talking

about. Nada was only ever diagnosed as having severe depression that never

seemed to explain all the things she does.

I started reading about it and it clicked, finally I can see! And she will flit

from one to the other of those BPD personalities… sometimes in seconds! Then

I thought about it and my ex was/is the same way =(

Out of the frying pan and into the fire eh?

Dawn

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of false

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

I had the opposite happen. I was in therapy and seeking to understand my mother.

My therapist felt my mother was bpd and so I began reading about it. I saw my

husband in the books and realized I had run from an abusive home straight into

my abusive husband's arms.

I try to avoid having my mother watch my kids at all costs. I understand,

though, that sometimes it's difficult. I hate that I my mother is even in my

life. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for her to flip out on me. At some

point it always happens. At least now I know how to set boundaries.

________________________________

From: charlene <chausies@... <mailto:chausies%40yahoo.com> >

To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:31:35 PM

Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

False,

this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost 7

years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that *I*

was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to realize

that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering his

past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood whenever

she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP! !!!! " squealsssssss. ) I

would have NO contact with her if not for the useless BPexhubby.

charlene~

____________ _________ _________ __

From: false <cricketsandwildflow ersyahoo (DOT) com>

To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very much

like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my mother

will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you doubt

yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

____________ _________ _________ __

From: maparise17 <malinda024hotmail (DOT) com>

To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

Malinda

[Guest guest]

My mom says things like that about my son as if it’s a joke… She’s not

funny.

Dawn

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of jennesis11

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:58 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

" he looks so sweet, too bad we know better. "

That is just HORRIBLE!!!! Know better than what? Even though I know better it

still amazes me when I read things like that. Its just outer limits weird.

Anyway...Sorry you have to deal with this...especially if this is the lesser of

two evils.

Jen

>

> False,

> this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost 7

years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that *I*

was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to realize

that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering his

past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood whenever

she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP!!!!! " squealsssssss.) I

would have NO contact with her if not for the useless BPexhubby.

>

> charlene~

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

> I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very much

like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my mother

will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you doubt

yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

>

> I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

>

> I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

>

> Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

>

> Malinda

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My ex would break everything, punch big holes in the walls. One time he made

me fall out of our truck to teach me a lesson. I was getting out and he waited

until I opened the door and unbuckled then gunned the truck and turned hard

left. When I got myself out of the gravel road he told me “That will teach

you a lessonâ€.

I figured out not too long after that I had to get out but that meant going back

to live with nada =(

I was afraid for a long time he’d find me and do something to me. For awhile

I was worried after I had my son that he’d find me and hurt him. Now I

visualize the situation and think about getting someone to stop him, and making

sure he can’t hurt us and it helps.

Dawn

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of charlene

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:07 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

she said the same about me as a kid. She would say that she was " just joking " if

you called her on the comment. She called me the devil child, etc. She would

either have everyone thinking I was the perfect princess or the devil incarnate,

depending on her level of displeasure with me. She would tell me what a HORRIBLE

person my father was, I never got to know him so I don't know the truth, and

when I did not do as she wanted she would SCRREECH " You are JUST LIKE YOUR

FATHER!!!! " My mom is a verbal abuser, she was also an alcoholic when I was a

kid and in abusive relationship after abusive relationship. She worked nights

and slept days so I raised myself and my younger (adopted, who she had NO

BUSINESS adopting) brother. Nada is on meds now, not drinking, and not in a

relationship for years so this is the TAME version of her. BPexhubby was

physically violent (mostly destroying property and himself but I was injured

" indirectly " sometimes too), would RAGE

at me and self harm in front of our son, and so on and so on. I won't explain it

all because it is horribly traumatic and I am still afraid of him and worry that

he might come after me when I don't do as he wishes.

charlene~

________________________________

From: jennesis11 <jennesis11@... <mailto:jennesis11%40yahoo.com> >

To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:57:48 PM

Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

" he looks so sweet, too bad we know better. "

That is just HORRIBLE!!!! Know better than what? Even though I know better it

still amazes me when I read things like that. Its just outer limits weird.

Anyway...Sorry you have to deal with this...especially if this is the lesser of

two evils.

Jen

>

> False,

> this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost 7

years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that *I*

was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to realize

that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering his

past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood whenever

she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP!!!!! " squealsssssss.) I

would have NO contact with her if not for the useless BPexhubby.

>

> charlene~

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

> I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very much

like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my mother

will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you doubt

yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

>

> I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

>

> I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

>

> Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

>

> Malinda

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In my opinion, marrying abusers is yet another legacy of having been raised by a

mentally ill mother.

Infants/young children naturally imprint on their primary caregiver *even if*

the primary caregiver (usually bio-mom) is dysfunctional, toxic and abusive.

We can't help it: as human beings we are hard-wired to equate and internalize

that " familiar " = " safe " , even if mommy (or daddy) really isn't safe at all, so

that when we hit puberty and begin looking for a suitable mate, we are

automatically and unconsciously attracted to the " familiar " behaviors of other

abusers. Its insidious, and it perpetuates the cycle of abuse.

KOs who find mentally healthy individuals attractive and marry them are the rare

lucky ones, truly. From what I can gather, its much more common for the KOs of

abusive, mentally ill parents to wind up marrying another abuser.

Its yet another reason why mentally ill people shouldn't be allowed to keep and

raise their kids: they're imprinting their kids or programming their kids that

being mistreated and abused is " normal " and " OK " , setting their adult kids up

for decades of further abuse, and for the KO's kids to be abused as well.

-Annie

>

> Hi False,

>

>

>

> I did the same as you. went from BPD nada to BPD long term boyfriend. I was

telling a psychologist friend of my mom’s latest suicide threat and was in

agony or I wouldn’t have bothered her about it. Forgot she was a psychologist

lol. She told me sounds like she’s BPD and I had no idea what she was talking

about. Nada was only ever diagnosed as having severe depression that never

seemed to explain all the things she does.

>

>

>

> I started reading about it and it clicked, finally I can see! And she will

flit from one to the other of those BPD personalities… sometimes in seconds!

Then I thought about it and my ex was/is the same way =(

>

>

>

> Out of the frying pan and into the fire eh?

>

>

>

> Dawn

>

>

>

>

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of false

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

>

>

>

>

> I had the opposite happen. I was in therapy and seeking to understand my

mother. My therapist felt my mother was bpd and so I began reading about it. I

saw my husband in the books and realized I had run from an abusive home straight

into my abusive husband's arms.

>

> I try to avoid having my mother watch my kids at all costs. I understand,

though, that sometimes it's difficult. I hate that I my mother is even in my

life. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for her to flip out on me. At some

point it always happens. At least now I know how to set boundaries.

>

> ________________________________

> From: charlene <chausies@... <mailto:chausies%40yahoo.com> >

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:31:35 PM

> Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

> False,

> this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost 7

years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that *I*

was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to realize

that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering his

past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood whenever

she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP! !!!! " squealsssssss. ) I

would have NO contact with her if not for the useless BPexhubby.

>

> charlene~

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> From: false <cricketsandwildflow ersyahoo (DOT) com>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

> I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very much

like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my mother

will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you doubt

yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> From: maparise17 <malinda024hotmail (DOT) com>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

> I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

>

> I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

>

> Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

>

> Malinda

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree Annie.

My only problem is that kids in foster care that are taken away aren’t always

better off. So many cases of abuse and neglect. It’s far from a simple

answer. Plus how invasive will the government have to be in all of our lives to

find this type of insidious abuse? The abuse my nada put me through probably

would have gone unnoticed unless you lived with us. She was great at playing a

part sometimes for months!

Some of the best times of my childhood were when some family or friend was

staying for a long time. She’d have to behave then otherwise her image of a

perfect, unappreciated and put upon mother gets destroyed.

She was also always being nosy and trying to involve herself in the life of my

friends who might have had abusive parents.. as if saving those kids somehow

makes up for what she did to us kids.

I wanted to puke when I went to pick her up at the psych hospital and all those

people she’d charmed over the week were telling me to appreciate my mom, take

good care of her she is a great person blah blah blah. They had no idea.

And nada was all intent on some girl younger than me who was there that has an

abusive mother wanting to cure all her ills and act like a mom to her. More

than she was ever a mom to me. =( I felt jealous and enraged and wanted so

badly to get out of there. I put a face on it but I didn’t manage to look

happy. It was cutting me to the bone.

She also tried to force me to show the nurse the scars on my arm from when I

hurt myself after a particularly bad time (my BPex’s truck that I had been

paying on got stolen, later we found out was his own grandfather and mom).

Instead of anyone helping us do what was needed to file a report I got attacked

by one after another allin the space of a couple of hours. I was getting

verbally abused by first my BPex, then his awful grandfather (who pretended he

didn’t know what happened to the truck), then my nada and my fada, then back

to my BPex who was yelling at me over what the others had just said to me as if

it was all my fault. I couldn’t get the bastards to stop and I just grabbed

the knife off the cabinet and cut myself. They shut up then.

And forever I will see those scars as my ultimate weakness and betrayal of

myself.

How dare she try to force me to show them to some stranger.

Dawn

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of anuria67854

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:12 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

In my opinion, marrying abusers is yet another legacy of having been raised by a

mentally ill mother.

Infants/young children naturally imprint on their primary caregiver *even if*

the primary caregiver (usually bio-mom) is dysfunctional, toxic and abusive.

We can't help it: as human beings we are hard-wired to equate and internalize

that " familiar " = " safe " , even if mommy (or daddy) really isn't safe at all, so

that when we hit puberty and begin looking for a suitable mate, we are

automatically and unconsciously attracted to the " familiar " behaviors of other

abusers. Its insidious, and it perpetuates the cycle of abuse.

KOs who find mentally healthy individuals attractive and marry them are the rare

lucky ones, truly. From what I can gather, its much more common for the KOs of

abusive, mentally ill parents to wind up marrying another abuser.

Its yet another reason why mentally ill people shouldn't be allowed to keep and

raise their kids: they're imprinting their kids or programming their kids that

being mistreated and abused is " normal " and " OK " , setting their adult kids up

for decades of further abuse, and for the KO's kids to be abused as well.

-Annie

>

> Hi False,

>

>

>

> I did the same as you. went from BPD nada to BPD long term boyfriend. I was

telling a psychologist friend of my mom’s latest suicide threat and was

in agony or I wouldn’t have bothered her about it. Forgot she was a

psychologist lol. She told me sounds like she’s BPD and I had no idea

what she was talking about. Nada was only ever diagnosed as having severe

depression that never seemed to explain all the things she does.

>

>

>

> I started reading about it and it clicked, finally I can see! And she will

flit from one to the other of those BPD personalities… sometimes in

seconds! Then I thought about it and my ex was/is the same way =(

>

>

>

> Out of the frying pan and into the fire eh?

>

>

>

> Dawn

>

>

>

>

>

> From: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of false

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

>

>

>

>

> I had the opposite happen. I was in therapy and seeking to understand my

mother. My therapist felt my mother was bpd and so I began reading about it. I

saw my husband in the books and realized I had run from an abusive home straight

into my abusive husband's arms.

>

> I try to avoid having my mother watch my kids at all costs. I understand,

though, that sometimes it's difficult. I hate that I my mother is even in my

life. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for her to flip out on me. At some

point it always happens. At least now I know how to set boundaries.

>

> ________________________________

> From: charlene <chausies@... <mailto:chausies%40yahoo.com> >

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:31:35 PM

> Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

> False,

> this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost 7

years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that *I*

was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to realize

that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering his

past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood whenever

she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP! !!!! " squealsssssss. ) I

would have NO contact with her if not for the useless BPexhubby.

>

> charlene~

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> From: false <cricketsandwildflow ersyahoo (DOT) com>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

> I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very much

like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my mother

will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you doubt

yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> From: maparise17 <malinda024hotmail (DOT) com>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

>

> I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

>

> I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

>

> Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

>

> Malinda

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, in 100% agreement. It is absolutely awful that not only do kids have to

have a disordered parent(s) but are set up to choose a disordered mate. It's a

crazy effed up universe. Here's another spin too - it could be the genes

compelling KO's to want to mate with people with PD's. There've been studies

that show that attraction and gene information is subconsciously picked up by

the smell of sweat...some study where they had women smelling men's shirts and

guessing which man they'd want just based on the shirt showed they were getting

information from this. So imagine a KO has some of the genes from their PD

parent - not enough to have the PD but maybe just recessive genes. Perhaps that

would affect who is attractive on an instinctual level mediated by genes. I had

(thankfully) very little contact with my NPD father yet I've been attracted most

strongly to men who are like him, right down to the narcissism. This is enough

to make me live like a nun.

Here's one article about a study that claims women are sniffing out biologically

relevant information

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090407074945.htm . This isn't the

same study I referred to above, but I'll try to find it.

> >

> > Hi False,

> >

> >

> >

> > I did the same as you. went from BPD nada to BPD long term boyfriend. I

was telling a psychologist friend of my mom’s latest suicide threat and was in

agony or I wouldn’t have bothered her about it. Forgot she was a psychologist

lol. She told me sounds like she’s BPD and I had no idea what she was talking

about. Nada was only ever diagnosed as having severe depression that never

seemed to explain all the things she does.

> >

> >

> >

> > I started reading about it and it clicked, finally I can see! And she will

flit from one to the other of those BPD personalities… sometimes in seconds!

Then I thought about it and my ex was/is the same way =(

> >

> >

> >

> > Out of the frying pan and into the fire eh?

> >

> >

> >

> > Dawn

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of false

> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I had the opposite happen. I was in therapy and seeking to understand my

mother. My therapist felt my mother was bpd and so I began reading about it. I

saw my husband in the books and realized I had run from an abusive home straight

into my abusive husband's arms.

> >

> > I try to avoid having my mother watch my kids at all costs. I understand,

though, that sometimes it's difficult. I hate that I my mother is even in my

life. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for her to flip out on me. At some

point it always happens. At least now I know how to set boundaries.

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: charlene <chausies@ <mailto:chausies%40yahoo.com> >

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:31:35 PM

> > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> >

> > False,

> > this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost 7

years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that *I*

was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to realize

that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> > kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering

his past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood

whenever she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP! !!!! "

squealsssssss. ) I would have NO contact with her if not for the useless

BPexhubby.

> >

> > charlene~

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > From: false <cricketsandwildflow ersyahoo (DOT) com>

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> >

> > I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very

much like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my

mother will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you

doubt yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > From: maparise17 <malinda024hotmail (DOT) com>

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> > Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

> >

> > I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

> >

> > I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

> >

> > Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

> >

> > Malinda

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You're right, the foster care system isn't Disneyland, either. But I know

several women who have become foster-care moms and the kids that get to stay

with them are very well cared-for and very lucky.

And you're right in that nadas like yours and mine can play the part of the

perfect mother in public so detection is extremely difficult. But in the case

of dishrag dads who *watch* and *know* the abuse is being inflicted, it takes

deliberately ignoring it.

Having a bpd/npd/a-spd mother has got to be the worst-case scenario for a child,

very much the same as having a child sexual predator for a father, because these

particular abusers have enough wits and self-control to keep their abuses

private, plus they program the child and/or terrorize the child into accepting

the abuse.

But me personally, I think I'd rather have taken my chances with an unknown paid

caregiver than the known and guaranteed treatment I was getting at home.

-Annie

> >

> > Hi False,

> >

> >

> >

> > I did the same as you. went from BPD nada to BPD long term boyfriend. I was

telling a psychologist friend of my mom’s latest suicide threat and was

in agony or I wouldn’t have bothered her about it. Forgot she was a

psychologist lol. She told me sounds like she’s BPD and I had no idea

what she was talking about. Nada was only ever diagnosed as having severe

depression that never seemed to explain all the things she does.

> >

> >

> >

> > I started reading about it and it clicked, finally I can see! And she will

flit from one to the other of those BPD personalities… sometimes in

seconds! Then I thought about it and my ex was/is the same way =(

> >

> >

> >

> > Out of the frying pan and into the fire eh?

> >

> >

> >

> > Dawn

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of false

> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I had the opposite happen. I was in therapy and seeking to understand my

mother. My therapist felt my mother was bpd and so I began reading about it. I

saw my husband in the books and realized I had run from an abusive home straight

into my abusive husband's arms.

> >

> > I try to avoid having my mother watch my kids at all costs. I understand,

though, that sometimes it's difficult. I hate that I my mother is even in my

life. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for her to flip out on me. At some

point it always happens. At least now I know how to set boundaries.

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: charlene <chausies@ <mailto:chausies%40yahoo.com> >

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:31:35 PM

> > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> >

> > False,

> > this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost 7

years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that *I*

was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to realize

that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> > kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering

his past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood

whenever she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP! !!!! "

squealsssssss. ) I would have NO contact with her if not for the useless

BPexhubby.

> >

> > charlene~

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > From: false <cricketsandwildflow ersyahoo (DOT) com>

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> >

> > I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very

much like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my

mother will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you

doubt yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > From: maparise17 <malinda024hotmail (DOT) com>

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> > Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

> >

> > I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

> >

> > I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

> >

> > Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

> >

> > Malinda

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yep, the whole genetics/biological issue in relation to our behaviors is

fascinating stuff. Its like, we want to think of ourselves as absolutely

rational and in control of our will, but there's a whole undercarriage of

biological processes going on that we are unaware of consciously that can affect

our thoughts, feelings and behaviors. Thanks for posting the article!

-Annie

> > >

> > > Hi False,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I did the same as you. went from BPD nada to BPD long term boyfriend. I

was telling a psychologist friend of my mom’s latest suicide threat and was in

agony or I wouldn’t have bothered her about it. Forgot she was a psychologist

lol. She told me sounds like she’s BPD and I had no idea what she was talking

about. Nada was only ever diagnosed as having severe depression that never

seemed to explain all the things she does.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I started reading about it and it clicked, finally I can see! And she

will flit from one to the other of those BPD personalities… sometimes in

seconds! Then I thought about it and my ex was/is the same way =(

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Out of the frying pan and into the fire eh?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dawn

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of false

> > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I had the opposite happen. I was in therapy and seeking to understand my

mother. My therapist felt my mother was bpd and so I began reading about it. I

saw my husband in the books and realized I had run from an abusive home straight

into my abusive husband's arms.

> > >

> > > I try to avoid having my mother watch my kids at all costs. I understand,

though, that sometimes it's difficult. I hate that I my mother is even in my

life. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for her to flip out on me. At some

point it always happens. At least now I know how to set boundaries.

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > From: charlene <chausies@ <mailto:chausies%40yahoo.com> >

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:31:35 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > >

> > > False,

> > > this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost

7 years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that

*I* was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to

realize that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> > > kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering

his past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood

whenever she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP! !!!! "

squealsssssss. ) I would have NO contact with her if not for the useless

BPexhubby.

> > >

> > > charlene~

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > From: false <cricketsandwildflow ersyahoo (DOT) com>

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > >

> > > I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very

much like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my

mother will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you

doubt yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > From: maparise17 <malinda024hotmail (DOT) com>

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> > > Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > >

> > > I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

> > >

> > > I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

> > >

> > > Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

> > >

> > > Malinda

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Malinda - Wow, this hit home. As I've figured out " all about Nada " and how my

own fleas have led me to behave in self-sabotaging ways, I'm also becoming aware

of just how much I've allowed my husband to control our joint fate all these

years. He's not a bad guy, but I've allowed him (oh, boy, have I) to be sort of

a spoiled brat for decades. We live where he needs to live, go out to places he

wants to go, make major decisions that may involve some discussion, but we've

usually wound up doing what he wanted to do because I wanted him to be happy,

and I could agree to be happy doing whatever it was he wanted. But now, I'm

less inclined to cave in and go along to get along. Maybe it's some new

self-awareness, maybe it's aging, maybe I'm just getting more cranky - but I

find that I don't really want to spend the rest of my life putting up with his

agenda and his little " snit fits " when he doesn't get his way. This can really

lead to a crisis - I'm pondering how I can proceed without destroying the

stability we have created together. It certainly doesn't count as abuse, but it

is sort of a blithe indifference to the things I wanted for myself all those

years ago. -

>

> I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

>

> I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

>

> Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

>

> Malinda

>

[Guest guest]

Charlene,

Just a quick suggestion for you to take or leave. I have great concern for what

your son is being exposed to thru nada (as do you, I know). I wonder if there is

a church around you that has a child care program he could go to after school,

or a local Y or rec center. Sometimes even the schools have after school

programs. If money is a concern, perhaps they have scholarships available.

Alternately, you can try calling 211 (if they have that service in your area),

and see if they can help with availble local community services. Looking ahead,

I can only see more harm and hardship for your son in nada's care. Of course I

do not walk in your shoes and this is your decision. I am also a single mom and

though my kids are older now, I do understand the difficult spot you are in. My

heart is with you.

Take care,

[Guest guest]

Aw, man. So, as KOs, not only were are needs neglected as kids; but whatever we

had left within us was fed off of by our Nadas or Fadas.

No wonder I felt so empty growing up.

Joy

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi False,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I did the same as you. went from BPD nada to BPD long term boyfriend.

I was telling a psychologist friend of my mom’s latest suicide

threat and was in agony or I wouldn’t have bothered her about

it. Forgot she was a psychologist lol. She told me sounds like

she’s BPD and I had no idea what she was talking about. Nada

was only ever diagnosed as having severe depression that never seemed to explain

all the things she does.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I started reading about it and it clicked, finally I can see! And she

will flit from one to the other of those BPD personalities…

sometimes in seconds! Then I thought about it and my ex was/is the same way =(

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Out of the frying pan and into the fire eh?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dawn

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > From: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of false

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I had the opposite happen. I was in therapy and seeking to understand

my mother. My therapist felt my mother was bpd and so I began reading about it.

I saw my husband in the books and realized I had run from an abusive home

straight into my abusive husband's arms.

> > > > >

> > > > > I try to avoid having my mother watch my kids at all costs. I

understand, though, that sometimes it's difficult. I hate that I my mother is

even in my life. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for her to flip out on me.

At some point it always happens. At least now I know how to set boundaries.

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > From: charlene <chausies@ <mailto:chausies%40yahoo.com> >

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:31:35 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > > False,

> > > > > this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for

almost 7 years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist

that *I* was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to

realize that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> > > > > kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted

considering his past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play

sainthood whenever she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP! !!!! "

squealsssssss. ) I would have NO contact with her if not for the useless

BPexhubby.

> > > > >

> > > > > charlene~

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > From: false <cricketsandwildflow ersyahoo (DOT) com>

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > > I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was

very much like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my

mother will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you

doubt yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > From: maparise17 <malinda024hotmail (DOT) com>

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> > > > > Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with

my husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the

other relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a

Bp mother and an abusive husband.

> > > > >

> > > > > I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with

an understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother.

I am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

> > > > >

> > > > > Malinda

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Exactly, I felt like I was born old. I never remember a time when " worrying

about mom " wasn't a huge thing in my life. She always seemed to be just hanging

on in terms of being able to work and to manage financially and she made sure

that I shared in the panic of that. Even back to one of my first memories of

four years old. Her unhappiness, her difficulties dealing with family and

friends all unfiltered, all dumped on me as her little best friend all of the

time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi False,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I did the same as you. went from BPD nada to BPD long term boyfriend.

I was telling a psychologist friend of my mom’s latest suicide

threat and was in agony or I wouldn’t have bothered her about

it. Forgot she was a psychologist lol. She told me sounds like

she’s BPD and I had no idea what she was talking about. Nada

was only ever diagnosed as having severe depression that never seemed to explain

all the things she does.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I started reading about it and it clicked, finally I can see! And she

will flit from one to the other of those BPD personalities…

sometimes in seconds! Then I thought about it and my ex was/is the same way =(

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Out of the frying pan and into the fire eh?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dawn

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > From: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of false

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I had the opposite happen. I was in therapy and seeking to understand

my mother. My therapist felt my mother was bpd and so I began reading about it.

I saw my husband in the books and realized I had run from an abusive home

straight into my abusive husband's arms.

> > > > >

> > > > > I try to avoid having my mother watch my kids at all costs. I

understand, though, that sometimes it's difficult. I hate that I my mother is

even in my life. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for her to flip out on me.

At some point it always happens. At least now I know how to set boundaries.

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > From: charlene <chausies@ <mailto:chausies%40yahoo.com> >

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:31:35 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > > False,

> > > > > this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for

almost 7 years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist

that *I* was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to

realize that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> > > > > kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted

considering his past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play

sainthood whenever she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP! !!!! "

squealsssssss. ) I would have NO contact with her if not for the useless

BPexhubby.

> > > > >

> > > > > charlene~

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > From: false <cricketsandwildflow ersyahoo (DOT) com>

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > > I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was

very much like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my

mother will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you

doubt yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > From: maparise17 <malinda024hotmail (DOT) com>

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> > > > > Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with

my husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the

other relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a

Bp mother and an abusive husband.

> > > > >

> > > > > I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with

an understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother.

I am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

> > > > >

> > > > > Malinda

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Lynette,

That is so awful. =(

I was the mom of the house too. I had to cook, clean and make sure the other

kids did their chores. I would get in trouble if their chores weren’t done.

When I could drive I had to go run tons of errands my nada didn’t do because

she was sleeping and take my younger siblings to practice or whatever they had.

This is partly the ruin of my dreams of being a veterinarian because I

couldn’t get time to study or do homework. I flunked Calculus because no one

would leave me alone to do homework.

I remember getting into a huge fight with my parents because I was in my room

studying for an important bio exam and wouldn’t come get the 100th glass of

tea for my father for the day. Nada was sitting on her ass right next to him on

the couch, and the were both like literally 5 steps from the kitchen??

So when I refused they pulled me out of my room to shout at me about being an

ungrateful daughter and my father took it as some kind of mortal wounding to his

soul that I wouldn’t weight on him hand and foot. This went on for hours and

I got no studying at all done and was exhausted the next day. When I got a bad

grade that was punished as well.

Perhaps my outlook on my father has been too rosy as I remember this.

I got into another big fight with my nada when I was 15 I think. And I don’t

even what started it, hardly matters as it happened all the time whenever I made

her feel unappreciated or irresponsible with a remark like “I have to do

school work, I don’t have to play mother to your kidsâ€. Oh I remember now!!

It was one of her “you’ve been sick to your stomach, who are you f*cking now

you whoreâ€. She wouldn’t believe me that I couldn’t really stand to be

touched by anyone and finally I told her why. That her nephew she thought was

an angel had raped me in the closet while… you guessed it, she was sleeping in

the next room.

I blamed myself for it! After all my father had told me not to go off alone

with him.

She screamed at me for telling lies and doing it just to hurt her and stormed

off.

When I got in a fight at school (ganged up on by 15 other kids) I never told a

soul. When a couple of creeps tried to pick me up in their car I never told

anyone either. What would be the point?

Dawn

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of joy.lynch54

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:50 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

Aw, man. So, as KOs, not only were are needs neglected as kids; but whatever we

had left within us was fed off of by our Nadas or Fadas.

No wonder I felt so empty growing up.

Joy

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi False,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I did the same as you. went from BPD nada to BPD long term boyfriend.

I was telling a psychologist friend of my

mom’s latest suicide threat and was in

agony or I wouldn’t have bothered her about

it. Forgot she was a psychologist lol. She told me sounds like

she’s BPD and I had no idea what she was

talking about. Nada was only ever diagnosed as having severe depression that

never seemed to explain all the things she does.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I started reading about it and it clicked, finally I can see! And she

will flit from one to the other of those BPD

personalities… sometimes in seconds! Then I

thought about it and my ex was/is the same way =(

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Out of the frying pan and into the fire eh?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dawn

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > From: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of false

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I had the opposite happen. I was in therapy and seeking to understand

my mother. My therapist felt my mother was bpd and so I began reading about it.

I saw my husband in the books and realized I had run from an abusive home

straight into my abusive husband's arms.

> > > > >

> > > > > I try to avoid having my mother watch my kids at all costs. I

understand, though, that sometimes it's difficult. I hate that I my mother is

even in my life. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for her to flip out on me.

At some point it always happens. At least now I know how to set boundaries.

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > From: charlene <chausies@ <mailto:chausies%40yahoo.com> >

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:31:35 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > > False,

> > > > > this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for

almost 7 years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist

that *I* was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to

realize that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> > > > > kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted

considering his past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play

sainthood whenever she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP! !!!! "

squealsssssss. ) I would have NO contact with her if not for the useless

BPexhubby.

> > > > >

> > > > > charlene~

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > From: false <cricketsandwildflow ersyahoo (DOT) com>

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> > > > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > > I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was

very much like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my

mother will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you

doubt yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > From: maparise17 <malinda024hotmail (DOT) com>

> > > > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> > > > > Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with

my husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the

other relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a

Bp mother and an abusive husband.

> > > > >

> > > > > I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with

an understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother.

I am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

> > > > >

> > > > > Malinda

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Annie,

That reminds me… i have long referred to my nada as an emotional vampire.

Since I was a teenager.

I do think my dad knew it was bad, and he either suspected how bad it was or was

oblivious. I cannot tell. He may be an NPD but I haven’t even begun to

research him yet. I wouldn’t have with nada, just accepted her as her usual

sick self but she pushed me to a near breaking point with these suicide letters,

twisting siblings against each other and dragging my son into her evil plots.

Dawn

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of anuria67854

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 12:30 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

Same with my dad; he worked a lot of overtime, and when he was at home nada

would turn her attention on him, mostly. She didn't do the most extreme physical

punishments of Sister and me when he was around, but she would rage and tantrum

at him and us kids often enough, so he knew there was a problem. I think there

were several factors going on with my dad regarding why he stayed with nada and

allowed her to abuse all of us. But whatever the reasons, he was willfully

ignoring the damage being done to his kids.

Still, having a nada truly is one of the two worst-case scenarios for kids (the

other being daddy-the-child-rapist, who probably is a malignant narcissist pd or

antisocial pd himself.)

The problem is that the Witch/Queen-type nadas are not so out-of-control that

its obvious to outsiders or the law, plus they have the wits to keep the abuses

just under the radar of the medical community, and the power to terrorize their

children into silent acquiescence.

The nadas who parentify their own children are just as damaging to them but in a

different way; they turn their children into little old people burdened with

adult-level responsibilities and guilt way before their time, virtually feeding

off their children like emotional vampires.

Its insidious; personality disorder is like a cancer in our society.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Hi False,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I did the same as you. went from BPD nada to BPD long term boyfriend. I

was telling a psychologist friend of my

mom’s latest suicide threat and was in

agony or I wouldn’t have bothered her about

it. Forgot she was a psychologist lol. She told me sounds like

she’s BPD and I had no idea what she was

talking about. Nada was only ever diagnosed as having severe depression that

never seemed to explain all the things she does.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I started reading about it and it clicked, finally I can see! And she will

flit from one to the other of those BPD

personalities… sometimes in seconds! Then I

thought about it and my ex was/is the same way =(

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Out of the frying pan and into the fire eh?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dawn

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of false

> > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I had the opposite happen. I was in therapy and seeking to understand my

mother. My therapist felt my mother was bpd and so I began reading about it. I

saw my husband in the books and realized I had run from an abusive home straight

into my abusive husband's arms.

> > >

> > > I try to avoid having my mother watch my kids at all costs. I understand,

though, that sometimes it's difficult. I hate that I my mother is even in my

life. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for her to flip out on me. At some

point it always happens. At least now I know how to set boundaries.

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > From: charlene <chausies@ <mailto:chausies%40yahoo.com> >

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:31:35 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > >

> > > False,

> > > this is the situation that I am in. I was married to a BPD/APD for almost

7 years and it took his behavior and indirect diagnosis by a psychiatrist that

*I* was seeing to deal with his abuse and finally reading many BPD books to

realize that I had lived with this kind of person growing up. My mom is higher

functioning than BPex but I can barely look her in the eye after all of the

years of trauma that I endured from her. My son now has to deal with her because

I do not have a coparent (his dad is SEVERE and is on supervised-only visits so

my mom is the ONLY support system I have to care for him while I work outside of

school hours.) My son turned 7 today and my mom said " he looks so sweet, too bad

we know better. " This was one of her milder comments. My son used to love

grandma but he is becoming less tolerant of her veiled abusive comments lately

and he has been acting out under her care (to her obvious dismay.) She blaims my

son but he is such a great

> > > kid with me and even his counselor thinks he is well adjusted considering

his past. Kids react to toxic people. But my mom likes to play sainthood

whenever she can ( " I was ONNNLLLLYYYYYY trying to HELLPPPPPPPP! !!!! "

squealsssssss. ) I would have NO contact with her if not for the useless

BPexhubby.

> > >

> > > charlene~

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > From: false <cricketsandwildflow ersyahoo (DOT) com>

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:15:55 PM

> > > Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > >

> > > I am just now breaking free from an abusive marriage. My husband was very

much like my mother. I have found in times when I am the most down, that my

mother will swoop in and take advantage when I'm at my lowest. They make you

doubt yourself. Perhaps this is the case with you too?

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > From: maparise17 <malinda024hotmail (DOT) com>

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1@ yahoogroups. com

> > > Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:48:53 PM

> > > Subject: Why do we self- sabotage???

> > >

> > > I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues with my

husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and the other

relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot having a Bp

mother and an abusive husband.

> > >

> > > I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman with an

understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive mother. I

am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the uncertainty. I want

to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so far and then I want to

say I self sabotage me and retreat.

> > >

> > > Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

> > >

> > > Malinda

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

my son is in the after school care program during the school year but there is a

gap between the end of summer school and the beginning of the new school year

(about 7 weeks) and there is no after school care on weekends. I use the school

system as much as I can even when I was giving almost my entire pay check each

week to keep him in summer school (they cut funding and almost canceled it

entirely.) Fortunately, school starts back up soon but that still leaves me

desperate for weekend care and I don't have any money to pay for more than I am.

I am concerned that my son's dad is going to wind up in jail (he is getting even

more hostile than usual and might come after me) or fighting child support soon

because I won't let his abusive family have access to my son (they are MUCH MUCH

MUCH worse than my mom.) So I will be in a bigger bind then.

charlene~

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 12:37:20 PM

Subject: Re: Why do we self- sabotage???

Charlene,

Just a quick suggestion for you to take or leave. I have great concern for what

your son is being exposed to thru nada (as do you, I know). I wonder if there is

a church around you that has a child care program he could go to after school,

or a local Y or rec center. Sometimes even the schools have after school

programs. If money is a concern, perhaps they have scholarships available.

Alternately, you can try calling 211 (if they have that service in your area),

and see if they can help with availble local community services. Looking ahead,

I can only see more harm and hardship for your son in nada's care. Of course I

do not walk in your shoes and this is your decision. I am also a single mom and

though my kids are older now, I do understand the difficult spot you are in. My

heart is with you.

Take care,

------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I completely understand. And...as far as being on a paving stone...I think

that's how its actually supposed to be. I don't think two people can get along

ALL the time...especially after years of marriage. Especially when there are

differing interests and needs. Its gotta be a give take, and its not always

pretty. I think its normal to argue, put all the cards on the table, come to a

mutually agreed upon resolution (ie. We'll go to your mothers for Christmas but

that means we'll be spending vacation with my Aunt or something like that), and

then make up and move on. This is NOT how it works with a nada or a fada or a

PD friend so as KO's we tend to just not voice ourselves. Im glad to hear that

you're speaking up and it sounds like while it upsets your hubby its just

bristlin'.

So...enjoy that paving stone. Pedestals are kinda scary anyway.

> > > >

> > > > I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues

with my husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and

the other relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot

having a Bp mother and an abusive husband.

> > > >

> > > > I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman

with an understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive

mother. I am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the

uncertainty. I want to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so

far and then I want to say I self sabotage me and retreat.

> > > >

> > > > Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

> > > >

> > > > Malinda

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

I do so hear what you wrote. I have empathy for what you are saying. I will

say I think age does effect us too- either way our voices- need to be heard and

honored too. Never too late to change.

:-)

malinda

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " shirleyspawn " wrote:

>

> Jen - Thanks for the input (really - thanks). I'm glad you went ahead and

attended grad school (that was on my list, as well). Even if the price was

high, it sounds like you got the best result possible in that scenario. I've

got sort of a different situation in that we're more " traditionally settled " and

I've been counting on the whole trad. family thing for some security in my

golden years. However, " feeling like a ghost in my own life " - is very apt. I

haven't so much fallen off the pedestal - it's more like whatever pedestal there

was to begin with has gotten shorter and shorter over the years - now it's more

like a paving stone, LOL! But in view of everybody else's worries, this is just

whining. -

>

>

> >

> > ,

> >

> > I think Blithe indifference is a form of abuse. Not to say that your

husband is a bad man, but this all sounds like my last LTR (5 years ago) and

quite frankly I started feeling like a ghost in my own life. And I also wanted

my SO to be happy...I just didnt realize that making him happy was at the

expense of myself. Come the day I realized that he was NEVER going to make any

kind of real commitment and was NEVER really going to offer me any kind of real

security (in fact he had started offering the EXACT opposite) I started doing

the things I wanted to do for myself. It all ended quite badly...similar to

falling off the pedestal. I went from being the wonderful woman he so admired

to being a selfish, self-centered, abandoning, worthless person that he couldnt

believe he was wasting his time on, and he had no problem letting me know how he

felt about me. ALL because I decided to attend a graduate school 3 hours from

where we lived (nm that when I was making the plans and trying to get his input

he had no comment). While I was studying he found a new woman that would simply

go along and not ask too many questions and then kicked me to the curb.

LITERALLY kicked me to the curb.

> >

> > It was all for the best...Im MUCH happier now, and we didnt have any

children so there weren't any innocent victims but...

> >

> > I guess what Im trying to say is that you should try to make sure you're

husband is on board with your new self-awareness. If you are no longer

comfortable " going along " he's going to notice the change and he may or may not

like it/accept it. But I think the only way to go without it coming to a

destructive head is to communicate with him about your feelings. If your

relationship is strong it may be a bit of a rocky road as you re-define your

respective roles, but in the end it will probably bring you closer. I suppose

you just need to decide if you are comfortable with the other alternative which

would be some kind of seperation.

> >

> > Best to you,

> > Jen

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > I have a separate group I go to deal with the verbal abuse issues

with my husband. It seems as those I get healthier with one relationship, and

the other relationship has moments that make me struggle. I know it is alot

having a Bp mother and an abusive husband.

> > > >

> > > > I still do not understand why I a rational and intelligent woman

with an understanding of abuse and its effect- remain with a verbally abusive

mother. I am so tired of being afraid to leave and worried about the

uncertainty. I want to fall back on me and be strong for me, and I will go so

far and then I want to say I self sabotage me and retreat.

> > > >

> > > > Anyone else know or understand why we can self-sabotage? Any insights?

> > > >

> > > > Malinda

> > > >

> > >

> >

>