Re: Nada asks me to hold her

[Guest guest]

Makes sense to me. Seems like by age 3 or so I already knew that I could not

trust my nada, that even if she *looked* and *sounded* OK at the moment she

would suddenly erupt again and hurt me again.

I suspect (based on a fragment of memory from early childhood) that possibly

nada even went so far as to pretend to be sad, pitifully begging for a hug only

so I would come close enough for her to grab and thrash again, but I had to

repress that knowledge so that I could live in the same house with her on a

day-to-day basis.

I also remember that around that time, maybe a little older, I had to strive to

suppress my automatic startle reflex if nada made a sudden, unexpected move near

me because when she saw me do that, it enraged her. It was an obvious sign that

I was terrified of her and it must have alarmed her: if anyone else should

notice it she would look bad, so she screamed at me that there was something

wrong with me and why was I doing that and I'd better stop it.

-Annie

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to

" hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug

her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes

me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want

to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, and sometimes they even deny that they ever did anything bad to you at

all, basically calling you a liar, and still you're supposed to just suck it up

and be nice and have a parent-child relationship with them.

It isn't fair.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

yup, that's what happened to me last week ! When I was talking to nada and

fada about my brother death, she decided to " discuss " our last conversation

we had in feb, when they called me a terrible daughter, a big disappointment

to them etc...and nada had the nerve to tell ME I verbally abused HER !!

When I reminded them that they were the ones who told me I was a terrible

daughter, a big disappointment et al, fad yelled " oh, you're making this all

up!! " like they never said those things !! hubby was on the phone and

heard it !! so I just said good bye and hung up, no sense getting into

another argument about " my attitude " and how " bad " I am...

Jackie

I agree, and sometimes they even deny that they ever did anything bad to you

at all, basically calling you a liar, and still you're supposed to just suck

it up and be nice and have a parent-child relationship with them.

It isn't fair.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

" ....still you're supposed to just suck it up and be nice and have a

parent-child relationship with them... "

You just described my whole #$%@#$^@%$% life!

Lynnette

>

> yup, that's what happened to me last week ! When I was talking to nada and

> fada about my brother death, she decided to " discuss " our last conversation

> we had in feb, when they called me a terrible daughter, a big disappointment

> to them etc...and nada had the nerve to tell ME I verbally abused HER !!

> When I reminded them that they were the ones who told me I was a terrible

> daughter, a big disappointment et al, fad yelled " oh, you're making this all

> up!! " like they never said those things !! hubby was on the phone and

> heard it !! so I just said good bye and hung up, no sense getting into

> another argument about " my attitude " and how " bad " I am...

>

>

> Jackie

>

> I agree, and sometimes they even deny that they ever did anything bad to you

> at all, basically calling you a liar, and still you're supposed to just suck

> it up and be nice and have a parent-child relationship with them.

> It isn't fair.

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, in my opinion it goes way beyond trying to have a logical conversation with

a child, its more like trying to have a logical conversation with the White

Rabbit or the Mad Hatter, or with someone from a parallel universe who believes

that " up " means " down " and " down " means " sideways, but only on Tuesdays when its

purple. "

It makes no sense.

Its crazy-making to attempt to make sense out of nonsense.

Its insane to try to have a relationship with an insane person.

-Annie

>

> yup, that's what happened to me last week ! When I was talking to nada and

> fada about my brother death, she decided to " discuss " our last conversation

> we had in feb, when they called me a terrible daughter, a big disappointment

> to them etc...and nada had the nerve to tell ME I verbally abused HER !!

> When I reminded them that they were the ones who told me I was a terrible

> daughter, a big disappointment et al, fad yelled " oh, you're making this all

> up!! " like they never said those things !! hubby was on the phone and

> heard it !! so I just said good bye and hung up, no sense getting into

> another argument about " my attitude " and how " bad " I am...

>

>

> Jackie

>

> I agree, and sometimes they even deny that they ever did anything bad to you

> at all, basically calling you a liar, and still you're supposed to just suck

> it up and be nice and have a parent-child relationship with them.

> It isn't fair.

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi we're back- basically baby has a fever of unknown origin- they can't find out

where's its coming from which really freaks me out. But for now she is acting OK

so they sent us home and we are just waiting for blood and urine results and

will follow up tomorrow unless she gets worse.

> > >

> > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Is the swine flu a possibility. We've gone through that here with similar

symptoms. The fever comes and goes. It has been more than 2 weeks. *sigh*

Thinking of your sweet baby...

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thu, November 26, 2009 4:29:48 PM

Subject: Re: Nada asks me to hold her

Hi we're back- basically baby has a fever of unknown origin- they can't find out

where's its coming from which really freaks me out. But for now she is acting OK

so they sent us home and we are just waiting for blood and urine results and

will follow up tomorrow unless she gets worse.

> > >

> > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Your baby is so lucky to have such an attentive mommy looking out for her, and I

bet she is just adorable. Now its time to relax a bit, take a breather, give

yourselves a good foot rub, hot bubble bath, glass of wine, etc. while you wait

for the test results. Stay strong, I'm betting that everything will turn out

well.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well maybe but she has been fully vaccinated for that and no one has mentioned

it. Plus she has no other symptoms- no runny or stuffed up nose, no vomiting or

diarrhea, no ear pain- nothing. It's really bizarre. Did you guys have other

symptoms or only fever?

> > > >

> > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much Annie. I really appreciate your support. I was literally just

thinking about opening that bottle of red I have on top of the fridge. I'm on my

way now...

> > > > >

> > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sore throat, dry cough, body aches along with the fever. The kids eventually

developed walking pneumonia. My son finished his antibiotics a few days ago. I

noticed a bit ago that he didn't look quite right. 104.2 fever. *sigh* Feels

like it never ends.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thu, November 26, 2009 5:20:38 PM

Subject: Re: Nada asks me to hold her

Well maybe but she has been fully vaccinated for that and no one has mentioned

it. Plus she has no other symptoms- no runny or stuffed up nose, no vomiting or

diarrhea, no ear pain- nothing. It's really bizarre. Did you guys have other

symptoms or only fever?

> > > >

> > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't post much, but I have kids and I know how scary that can be. I hope

everything works out. I'm so sorry.

> > >

> > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, deja vu all over again!

Nada had a thing about " hold me " . Now, a normal person, who has a

relationship with you and wants a hug, would just hug you, and you would

reciprocate, and they would read the signals when you pull back and

release you. Right?

Never nada.

First , she would make the big deal point of saying I need a hug, or

hug me, or whatever. And, as I found out, not just to me. She went by a

funeral home after a guy she had one date with 20 years ago died, and

asked a casual acquaintence who was a funeral director " I need to be

held. Will you just hold me? " As she tells it she sat and stretched

that awkwardness out to hours. ( is that creepy, or is that just me?)

Second, with me, she would never release a hug. She would wrap her arms

around me in a death grip, usually around my neck, and lay her head on

my chest and hold on and hold on. I would release her and try to step

back and she would still be holding me. I d try telling her, like a

child, now when you are hugging someone and they pull away, that is the

signal that they are done and want to end the hug. No luck. I would have

to reach back and pry her hands away from my neck and force her to let

me go. It got to the point that I didnt want her to hug me, ever. I felt

like getting around a psycho ex girl friend who just wouldnt let go. ( I

had one of those too, but that is another story. ) And , in reflection,

it is just like everything else with nada, nothing we give is enough.

They always want more, and demand more, till the point that we dont want

to give anything, because we realize that with nada, to give anything,

is to give everything.

A hug is an expression of affection. Affection, like love, is given, not

demanded. But with nadas, they demand both, and then criticize it

because it is never enough. Yes, it is creepy.

My nada, when I was about to leave home to join the Navy, managed to

manipulate my recruiter into letting her go along for the 2 hour ride to

the AFEES station where I was to join and fly out to boot camp. FOOL!

Then the tearful hug, and prying the fingers off so I could go be abused

for 9 weeks. It was a friggin relief. They yelled at me and ran me and I

fought fire, I was exposed to tear gas, and it was a relief. My

consolation there is that dumbass recruiter got to ride back with her

crying hysterically for 2 hours, while I was on an airplane heading for

boot camp.

Yes, boys and girls, it seems to be common to us all, we were not

hugged, we were taken prisoner.

Bounderies! We can tell nada how her hugs make us feel, explain to her

as if she were a child, since she is, the proper protocols for hugging,

and the consequences, ie, if you wont let a hug be brief, and leg go

when I signal by pulling back, then I will no longer permit you to hug

me. Period.

Doug

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot

to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well

has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The

thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate

person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I

get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite the

bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate as

I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do

this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when

we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I push

away.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm laughing over here: Funeral Director and Recruiter!!!! Lolol - it's the

classic case of " Here Kitty Kitty! "

Someone will always buy " it "

Lynnette

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Re: Nada asks me to hold her

Wow, deja vu all over again!

Nada had a thing about " hold me " . Now, a normal person, who has a

relationship with you and wants a hug, would just hug you, and you would

reciprocate, and they would read the signals when you pull back and

release you. Right?

Never nada.

First , she would make the big deal point of saying I need a hug, or

hug me, or whatever. And, as I found out, not just to me. She went by a

funeral home after a guy she had one date with 20 years ago died, and

asked a casual acquaintence who was a funeral director " I need to be

held. Will you just hold me? " As she tells it she sat and stretched

that awkwardness out to hours. ( is that creepy, or is that just me?)

Second, with me, she would never release a hug. She would wrap her arms

around me in a death grip, usually around my neck, and lay her head on

my chest and hold on and hold on. I would release her and try to step

back and she would still be holding me. I d try telling her, like a

child, now when you are hugging someone and they pull away, that is the

signal that they are done and want to end the hug. No luck. I would have

to reach back and pry her hands away from my neck and force her to let

me go. It got to the point that I didnt want her to hug me, ever. I felt

like getting around a psycho ex girl friend who just wouldnt let go. ( I

had one of those too, but that is another story. ) And , in reflection,

it is just like everything else with nada, nothing we give is enough.

They always want more, and demand more, till the point that we dont want

to give anything, because we realize that with nada, to give anything,

is to give everything.

A hug is an expression of affection. Affection, like love, is given, not

demanded. But with nadas, they demand both, and then criticize it

because it is never enough. Yes, it is creepy.

My nada, when I was about to leave home to join the Navy, managed to

manipulate my recruiter into letting her go along for the 2 hour ride to

the AFEES station where I was to join and fly out to boot camp. FOOL!

Then the tearful hug, and prying the fingers off so I could go be abused

for 9 weeks. It was a friggin relief. They yelled at me and ran me and I

fought fire, I was exposed to tear gas, and it was a relief. My

consolation there is that dumbass recruiter got to ride back with her

crying hysterically for 2 hours, while I was on an airplane heading for

boot camp.

Yes, boys and girls, it seems to be common to us all, we were not

hugged, we were taken prisoner.

Bounderies! We can tell nada how her hugs make us feel, explain to her

as if she were a child, since she is, the proper protocols for hugging,

and the consequences, ie, if you wont let a hug be brief, and leg go

when I signal by pulling back, then I will no longer permit you to hug

me. Period.

Doug

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot

to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well

has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The

thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate

person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I

get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite the

bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate as

I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do

this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when

we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I push

away.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Excellent insights as usual, Doug.

So very right-on-target:

" ...We were not hugged, we were taken prisoner. "

and the piece de resistance (paraphrased) observation:

" ...In reflection it is just like everything else with nada: nothing we give is

enough. Nada always wants more, and demands more, 'till the point that we don't

want to give *anything* because we realize that with nada, to give anything is

to give everything... "

That's what it is all about, for sure: no matter what you give nada, its never

enough.

-Annie

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot

> to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well

> has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The

> thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate

> person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I

> get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite the

> bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate as

> I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

> whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do

> this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

> really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when

> we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I push

> away.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, Doug. Incredible!

You found relief through being drilled...I can relate except on a much smaller

scale.

Where I work is in a very fast-paced neighborhood...kind of a rough

neighborhood, so to speak on a sales floor. Customers come in and many of them

have attitudes and are ready to dump them onto anyone who is nearby. It is often

tough to make sales (esp. in this economy), and management keeps careful tabs of

all inventory and sales made by each employee.

However, I am GRATEFUl...yes, grateful for this job that I have especially now

because when I get mired in the work, my roommate situation (my roommate has

some sort of BPD or PD)disappears and its like she doesn't exist.

I'm moving soon anyway, but this job is nothing compared to the passive

aggressive behavior, the obsessive controlling behavior, and guilt &

manipulation or FOG (fear obligation guilt). To top it off, there is spiritual

abuse involved as well. Now that I am getting my butt out of here, and

disconnecting from her, she wrote me an email saying she will pray for me for

shutting everyone out (everyone = her). Therefore, she likens discontinuing an

*abusive* relationship with her to be a sin. Weird, huh?

So, yeah...this job is a cake walk compared to this junk.

Best to you.

-Joy

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot

> to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well

> has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The

> thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate

> person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I

> get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite the

> bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate as

> I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

> whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do

> this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

> really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when

> we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I push

> away.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dang it , Lynette, now you ve got me laughing at it.

Like the cartoon, where the big dog Spike is asleep in the doghouse, and

Tweety says here Kitty Kitty to Syvlester, then when he grabs for Tweety

he gets the big dog instead. Just put nadas face on spike the dog, and

.....oh my, in tears here.

Guess we gotta laugh at it when we can, we get plenty chance to cry.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a

lot

> to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as

well

> has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her.

The

> thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate

> person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I

> get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite the

> bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate

as

> I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

> whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do

> this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

> really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when

> we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I push

> away.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

LOL! Wow, your soon-to-be-ex-roommate thinks she's GOD! Well, then the phrase I

use sometimes to express astonishment is very appropriate: Holy Cow!!

It doesn't surprise me, though, because I got a similar letter from an npd

ex-friend who claimed that I had committed " transgressions " against her (!?) and

when I looked that up, the word usually connotes offenses of a religious nature,

aka " sins. " Whoo-ee, these narcissists really do think they're God. Amazing.

-Annie

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot

> > to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well

> > has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The

> > thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate

> > person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I

> > get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite the

> > bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate as

> > I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

> > whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to do

> > this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

> > really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when

> > we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I push

> > away.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yea, Annie,

And the tragically sad thing is, we were, or are, their children. We

were born and wired to seek from them, to depend on them for everything,

then gradually grow and strengthen and gain confidence and be able to

stand on our own, and to give to others, parents, friends, our own

children.

Yet we never got that. We were hatched for them to feed on.

I saw a movie earlier this year with my wife. Total chick flick, ok, but

it was her turn. The movie was My Sisters Keeper. Mom had a daughter

with leukemia, and had a " designer baby " for the sole purpose of

providing body parts and plasma for her older sister. Designer sis

finally sued Mom for the right to make her own choices about whether to

give a kidney to older sis. Mom s responce was, Dont you know your

sister will DIE if she doesnt get your kidney? To which , of course the

answer is MY KIDNEY, mom! MY KIDNEY. How is it YOUR decision for me to

give up my kidney to her? and Mom...because she needs it.

And I thought, although she is doing this for the older sis, golden

child, how very like a nada. She doesnt get it at all, the fact that

younger sis is giving up so much doesnt play, the only thing is what I

need ( for my other daughter.)

And that s it, isnt it? What we need never mattered, not for a moment ,

not ever.

Sad, so very, very sad.

Doug

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a

lot

> > to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as

well

> > has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her.

The

> > thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically

affectionate

> > person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do

I

> > get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite

the

> > bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate

as

> > I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

> > whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do

> > this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

> > really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe

when

> > we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I

push

> > away.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Joy, I had to read that twice, releif thru being drilled, and I was still

giggling from Lynettes comments. Drilled could be taken many ways, and our Nada

s " drilled " us good, didnt they.

But yea, your psycho roomies comment about her praying for you for cutting

everyone off, in short, I ll ask God to deal with you for setting bounderies, is

spiritual or religous abuse.

The temptation would be to resond to her, I m not cutting everyone off, just

those who are toxic to me. And honey, you top the list.

But we are too wise for that, arent we? The only winning move is not to play!

Let her pray for you, a little prayer never hurt anyone.

And re getting your butt out of it..YOU GO GIRL!

Best...Doug

>

> Wow, Doug. Incredible!

>

> You found relief through being drilled...I can relate except on a much smaller

scale.

>

> Where I work is in a very fast-paced neighborhood...kind of a rough

neighborhood, so to speak on a sales floor. Customers come in and many of them

have attitudes and are ready to dump them onto anyone who is nearby. It is often

tough to make sales (esp. in this economy), and management keeps careful tabs of

all inventory and sales made by each employee.

>

> However, I am GRATEFUl...yes, grateful for this job that I have especially now

because when I get mired in the work, my roommate situation (my roommate has

some sort of BPD or PD)disappears and its like she doesn't exist.

>

> I'm moving soon anyway, but this job is nothing compared to the passive

aggressive behavior, the obsessive controlling behavior, and guilt &

manipulation or FOG (fear obligation guilt). To top it off, there is spiritual

abuse involved as well. Now that I am getting my butt out of here, and

disconnecting from her, she wrote me an email saying she will pray for me for

shutting everyone out (everyone = her). Therefore, she likens discontinuing an

*abusive* relationship with her to be a sin. Weird, huh?

>

> So, yeah...this job is a cake walk compared to this junk.

>

> Best to you.

>

> -Joy

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for describing that film, I'd never heard of it, and what a brilliant

example of borderline pd thinking!

Yes, the older daughter with leukemia is the " golden child " that nada identifies

with and is enmeshed with, and the younger " designer " kid is the scapegoat who

is, as far as nada is concerned, merely an object specifically created for

nadas/daughter #1's use.

Daughter #2 is supposed to have no needs or feelings of her own. Good for #2 for

standing up for herself!

That sounds like a must-see film for me.

-Annie

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a

> lot

> > > to " hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as

> well

> > > has hug her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her.

> The

> > > thought makes me cringe. I am normally a very physically

> affectionate

> > > person, but I don't want to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do

> I

> > > get around this w/out hurting her feelings, or should I just bite

> the

> > > bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as physically affectionate

> as

> > > I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also realized how

> > > whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

> do

> > > this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really

> > > really bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe

> when

> > > we hug and it's even worse because she will never let go until I

> push

> > > away.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hang in there Mozzerrella. For what it is worth, there is a bad virus going

around. My DS (older than your baby, so I know less scary) has had it since

Thanksgiving. I took him to the doctor yesterday and they ruled out strept and

swine/reg flu. The doctor said it seemed to be just a virus that should run its

course 3-4 days.

Last night he spiked to 104 while maxed out on Motrin and Tylenol. It was a

little scary but the fever is finally down today. I'm hoping it stays down.

Hang in there. Make sure she is hydrated. I hope she gets better soon. This

stuff is hard. The only way I get through it is think " what would nada do? " and

then, do what most of us KOs have to do, DO THE OPPOSITE! LOL but sadly, true.

I just keep calm and make sure not to act overly concerned in front of my DS,

just keep rolling with those punches.

Hang in there and post an update when you can.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to

" hold her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug

her a lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes

me cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want

to " hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Gosh, it sounds awful to be asked to hug someone that you are so strongly

uncomfortable hugging. My 13 yr old does not like to be hugged anymore and

sometimes I forget and she very vocally will push me away. It hurts and

embarrasses me, but I don't get mad at her, I just ask her to be more respectful

in expressing boundaries.  I feel really awful that I made her uncomfortable.

After reading your comments, I will not be hugging her spontaneously anymore.

Thanks for sharing.

Can you offer to hold her hand? Would that make you uncomfortable?

Leanne

Subject: Re: Re: Nada asks me to hold her

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 6:37 PM

 

Wow, hearing all this is like hearing my own story. So freaking weird and

relieving. My mother also told me I was unaffectionate. She was always

invasive in her affection and physical needs. And so it is hard to hug her,

hold her hand etc. My sister could deal with her that way (as in rubbing her

feet, holding her hand) but I felt so ..cringing.. ..

When I left her home after my sister died, I was so brittle, I said to her, with

compassion in my heart, that I just did not want a long goodbye. And she hugged

me like a normal person, even less so than one would expect a mom to. And I was

grateful.

My first husband was very unaffectionate and when he would try to get close it

would also make me cringe. However, my boyfriend is very tactile (similar to

me) and he is very affectionate and touching, our relationship is very physical

that way, and it is like a healing balm to me. I feel it heals me from all

those years of never being touched at all unless it was one of those

cringe-worthy experiences. I think it's because he is not invasive at all.

~patricia

Re: Nada asks me to hold her

I have experienced this also, and it makes me wonder if not wanting to be

touched/kissed/ hugged is common for those who have experienced extreme punitive

behaviors plus extreme lovey/touchy/ feely behaviors from their personality-

disordered mother and/or father.

I and my Sister experienced frequent verbal/emotional abuse from our nada that

would often escalate into physical attacks: face-slapping, pushing, spanking,

being jerked around, and sometimes being beaten with a belt. Then nada would

either be all perky and cheerful after battering us (as though she'd just had a

stimulating and interesting game of tennis) or she would be sobbing hysterically

and contrite and wanting reassurance that we still loved her, and promising to

never do that again. (Both reactions are absolutely bizarre and creepy, in my

opinion.)

The *last* thing I wanted was to be handled by my nada after she'd screamed at

me and slapped/spanked/ beaten me.

I did not trust her, and on top of that I was still terrified, shaking and in

shock from having just been treated so harshly, and outraged. I was so angry at

her for scaring me and hurting me, sometimes for no reason that I even

understood. Part of the trauma was never knowing just how far she would go. I

was genuinely afraid of her, she seemed like she could kill me or *wanted* to

kill me when she was in a rage.

Afterward, I did not want her hands on me, I did not want to hug her or kiss

her, but I was forced to because if I didn't, she might just erupt *again.*

Talk about coercion!

But perhaps the bizarre combination of verbal abuse: a nada inflicting

vitriolic, hateful, emotional attacks, then afterward nada wanting to cuddle in

a loving and semi-intimate way, is just as jarring and dysfunctional and

damaging to a child.

And effing creepy.

I've mentioned it here before, but one of my very earliest childhood memories is

me hiding from " the woman " who is laying across my bed and sobbing piteously for

me to please come to her, and I'm holding my ears shut and saying to myself,

" No! She's just trying to trick me! "

My guess is that when my mother would rage at me I split her into " the woman "

instead of " my mommy " because the idea that my own mother would hurt and

frighten me so badly was too much for me to take at 3 to 4 years old.

It still is too much for me to take, in a way.

-Annie

> >

> > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

> >

>

------------ --------- --------- ------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at BPDCentral (DOT) . com.

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Maybe with your daughter, try just asking first " Can I give you a little hug? "

and then respect her wishes if she says " no " . If she says " no " , you could say,

" Well, I just want you to know I love you, so I'll say it instead, " I love

you! " "

If she learns that she can trust you to not invade her personal space and latch

on when she doesn't want to hug, she may eventually say " yes " when you ask

first.

Or you could try asking her, " I was wondering if you are angry at me, if that's

why you don't like me hugging you lately? Or if maybe when I hug you, do I hug

you too hard or too long? You can tell me, its OK. " YOu can reassure her that

you still love her and are open to hugging, but that you'll just stick to saying

the words and let her initiate hugging if that makes her feel more comfortable.

Its a great way to make her feel empowered that she doesn't have to accept

physical contact from other people (like boys) if it makes her feel overpowered

and uncomfortable.

When we were growing up with our pd nada, Sister and I weren't allowed to have

physical boundaries and were forced to hug and kiss people when we didn't want

to. I think that respecting a person's boundaries, even a child's, is

healthier.

-Annie

>

> > >

>

> > > Going to nada's for TG weekend. She has been asking me a lot to " hold

her " . She wants me to lie down with her and read to her as well has hug her a

lot and put my arms around her when I sit next to her. The thought makes me

cringe. I am normally a very physically affectionate person, but I don't want to

" hold " nada like she is my child. How do I get around this w/out hurting her

feelings, or should I just bite the bullet? She mourns over the fact I am not as

physically affectionate as I was when I was little. Hello? I grew up! And I also

realized how whacked out she is. I feel sorry for her b/c I know she wants me to

do this because she feels unloved. But I am NOT her mother! It really really

bothers me to touch her. It takes all I have not to cringe when we hug and it's

even worse because she will never let go until I push away.

>

> > >

>

> >

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at BPDCentral (DOT) .

com. SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

>

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

>

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.