Re: welcome to group

November 16, 2009

Thank you, Annie,

I have been reading the posts to this list trying to get a *feel*. I am at a

hard point in life in that my younger sister has just died a couple weeks ago.

She had end stage liver disease caused by hep C and alcoholism. She was living

with my mother (the one I think is BPD) with her two daughters. I wish I could

talk to my sister about all this because I know what she would say. But it

seems like in this subtle way, all this trauma and sadness around my sister's

death has centered on my mom.

My mom is like a child. My father (divorced from her and remarried) died a year

and a half ago; and I felt such rage pouring out of me towards my mom, and I was

not sure why. I held everything in; more for self preservation (I cannot cry or

have feelings in front of her) and this time, even though I felt a very deep

compassion for my mom, I had to keep my distance.

Some of my horrible guilt feelings now are that I could not be more comforting

for her. But to be honest, no one asked how I was doing, and my sister was my

best friend. I did everything alone, sat with my sister when she died, went to

the funeral home to get her cremated; picked up her ashes, made an altar in the

house, constantly checked in with my sister's two daughters (19 and 13). On and

on. I call my mom, and still, she does not ask about me, and how I am doing. I

think she thinks I am so capable after all these years of having to be so. But

meanwhile my body is in terrible muscle pain. My boyfriend of two years moved

across the country, I am stressed financially. And there is no caring or

wondering how I am doing, coming my way.

I think my mom's mental issues have made me into this weird emotional hider, and

half capable and half weak and needy. And if it is true, she has a mental issue

that she can't really *help* ....shouldn't I be more forgiving and

compassionate? (she can be very kind and concerned) Amongst the many messed up

ways I feel she has affected me, there is tremendous guilt on top of it.

Anyway...that is just something I needed to share right now with people who

obviously have an idea of what this involves. It complicates grief

unbelievably.

~patricia

Re: intro to this list

Welcome to the Group, pd. Its a good place to find emotional support from

people who have experienced very similar home environments RE parental abuse

growing up.

-Annie

>

> > I'd like to hear a " Hi " from everyone on this list, I'd like to know

> > 1 - Your sex,

> > 2 - Your age,

> > 3 - If you had a BPD father and/or a BPD mother,

> > 4 - The age of your BPD parent(s),

> > 5 - Whether that parent is still alive, and

> > 6 - How long ago did you first learn about BPD.

>

> Hi,

> I am a woman, 48. I believe my mother has BPD and maybe were touches in my

sister, and my grandfather seems to have had it. My mother is in her mid 70's,

and is alive.

> I learned of BPD years and years ago, maybe 25 years ago. But did not apply

it to my mom, but I wondered always what it was that was *off* about her. I

knew there was something and I could see the same thing in my grandfather. A

little in my brother. Recently I began to read about it and I think it really

is the thing that seems *off* about my mom, and explains how she is and how she

can sometimes be really cruel to me.

> ~patricia

>

November 16, 2009

Thank you Katrina for your clarity.

I always felt my mom was an emotional vampire; that is exactly how I would

describe her.

I know there is a continuum of severity of this disorder; I wish I understood it

better, like

what causes it, and how it seeped into my *self*.

The weird thing is that protecting myself from her makes me feel very guilty;

it's almost like

she cannot help herself and I can. It was so sad to me to see her sitting on

the couch so sad after

my sister died. I have accepted that she is not who I want her to be; that she

will not comfort me

nor would I let her. There are very few people in this world I really trust to

do that.

She thanked me profusely when I left because I did all the stuff she could not

do; and I said, don't

thank me, she was my sister, you are my mom, of course I would do these things.

This is the confusion which I am sure everyone can relate to.....the guilt,

anger, compassion, nothing

clean. Nothing feels clean, like just a real solid feeling.

Now that I have some distance, it is easier for me to deal. But it is sad to

think of her fairly alone,

and old, because of this mental issue.

I'm just tired of feeling sad.............

thanks again,

patricia

Re: Re: welcome to group

,

You ask if your nada having a mental illness that she can't help

shouldn't make you more compassionate and forgiving. In return,

I ask you whether you'd let a rabid dog bite you because it

can't help having rabies? There's nothing wrong with feeling

compassion for someone who is mentally ill, or even with

forgiving them for their terrible behavior, but there's no

reason you should continue to allow yourself to be abused by

that person. You need to do whatever it takes to protect

yourself from the rabid dog, or in this case, your BPD mother.

There's no reason to feel guilty for doing that.

My condolences on the loss of your sister. You deserve to be

able to grieve in whatever way suits you. You shouldn't feel

like it is somehow your responsibility to comfort your nada when

she ignores your well-being and fails to comfort you.

Relationships should be a two-way street. Your relationship with

her sounds like a one-way street where you're expected to give

of yourself to her while she sucks you dry and gives nothing

back. That's wrong, abusive and emotionally destructive to you.

Nadas are frequently emotional vampires.

At 06:36 PM 11/16/2009 pd wrote:

>Thank you, Annie,

>I have been reading the posts to this list trying to get a

>*feel*. I am at a hard point in life in that my younger sister

>has just died a couple weeks ago. She had end stage liver

>disease caused by hep C and alcoholism. She was living with my

>mother (the one I think is BPD) with her two daughters. I wish

>I could talk to my sister about all this because I know

>what she would say. But it seems like in this subtle way, all

>this trauma and sadness around my sister's death has centered

>on my mom.

>My mom is like a child. My father (divorced from her and

>remarried) died a year and a half ago; and I felt such rage

>pouring out of me towards my mom, and I was not sure why. I

>held everything in; more for self preservation (I cannot cry or

>have feelings in front of her) and this time, even though I

>felt a very deep compassion for my mom, I had to keep my

>distance.

>

>Some of my horrible guilt feelings now are that I could not be

>more comforting for her. But to be honest, no one asked how I

>was doing, and my sister was my best friend. I did everything

>alone, sat with my sister when she died, went to the funeral

>home to get her cremated; picked up her ashes, made an altar in

>the house, constantly checked in with my sister's two daughters

>(19 and 13). On and on. I call my mom, and still, she does not

>ask about me, and how I am doing. I think she thinks I am so

>capable after all these years of having to be so. But

>meanwhile my body is in terrible muscle pain. My boyfriend of

>two years moved across the country, I am stressed

>financially. And there is no caring or wondering how I am

>doing, coming my way.

>I think my mom's mental issues have made me into this weird

>emotional hider, and half capable and half weak and needy. And

>if it is true, she has a mental issue that she can't really

>*help* ....shouldn't I be more forgiving and

>compassionate? (she can be very kind and concerned) Amongst

>the many messed up ways I feel she has affected me, there is

>tremendous guilt on top of it.

>

>Anyway...that is just something I needed to share right now

>with people who obviously have an idea of what this

>involves. It complicates grief unbelievably.

>~patricia

--

Katrina

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the SWOE Workbook.

November 16, 2009

Hi , welcome and I too am sorry for the loss of your sister. It sounds

like you had a beautiful relationship and that's quite an accomplishment with

having a nada. I am an only child, but I so often read stories on this list

about siblings torn apart by triangulation games from their nada. You deserve

the space and time to grieve a very real loss even if your mother has no clue.

I too am " this weird emotional hider, and half capable and half weak and needy. "

its an irony to me how many people in my life have thought I was incredibly

strong and others thought I was incredibly needy. Both are true, in a way.

Having a nada requires the ability to shut away part of the self for safety I

think.

While it's true that if one was a truly objective observer, utterly uninvolved,

it would be possible to see a mentally ill mother with great compassion - it

doesn't change that her children are the one's she injures. To have love and

compassion for the one who hurts you - it's a lot to ask, divine if you will,

and aren't we only human? Like the advice before mine you have the right to

protect yourself.

A bit of the most perplexing advice I ever got was from a Buddhist lama. I

return often to it. He claimed that the highest level of love *did* respect the

needs of both people in a relationship. I was arguing with him that to give my

mother what she needed and take care of her would destroy me. But what my

mother defines as what she needs and me giving it to her isn't love...it's

serving her. So just a question to ponder, if you did give your mother all

that you feel guilty for not doing would it be love or would be acting out of

guilt or fear or obligation? Or FOG as they say? The question of what acting

out of real love toward my nada really means has preoccupied me for some time

but helped me to see things a bit differently. Maybe it might for you too.

wishing you comfort,

julie

> >

> > > I'd like to hear a " Hi " from everyone on this list, I'd like to know

> > > 1 - Your sex,

> > > 2 - Your age,

> > > 3 - If you had a BPD father and/or a BPD mother,

> > > 4 - The age of your BPD parent(s),

> > > 5 - Whether that parent is still alive, and

> > > 6 - How long ago did you first learn about BPD.

> >

> > Hi,

> > I am a woman, 48. I believe my mother has BPD and maybe were touches in

my sister, and my grandfather seems to have had it. My mother is in her mid

70's, and is alive.

> > I learned of BPD years and years ago, maybe 25 years ago. But did not

apply it to my mom, but I wondered always what it was that was *off* about her.

I knew there was something and I could see the same thing in my grandfather. A

little in my brother. Recently I began to read about it and I think it really

is the thing that seems *off* about my mom, and explains how she is and how she

can sometimes be really cruel to me.

> > ~patricia

> >

November 17, 2009

" I think my mom's mental issues have made me into this weird emotional hider,

and half capable and half weak and needy. "

NO NO NO,

you have a choice; you can heal, you can become the true person you were put on

this earth to be. You deserve to be happy.

" And if it is true, she has a mental issue that she can't really *help*

.....shouldn't I be more forgiving and compassionate? (she can be very kind and

concerned) Amongst the many messed up ways I feel she has affected me, there is

tremendous guilt on top of it. "

I repeat

YOU DESERVE TO BE HAPPY

November 17, 2009

Thanks for your words and support. It is true that my siblings and I have

had this weird relationship triangulation thing going on at times. Ultimately,

my sister and I were able to sort of help each other be immune to my mother's

behavior. My older brother has always been the 'golden child'.

Many people also think I am so strong; but I put it off, because inside I feel

so weak. Inside, I feel as though *I* am the " waif " . Anymore that is. Before

so much change has happened in my life (starting with divorce five years ago) I

felt kind of like a cowgirl But yeah, felt needy inside which I hide as best

I can because I am afraid that those in my life will think of me the way *I*

think of my mom.

I thought about your comment from the Buddhist lama. I feel that my love for my

mother has been so distorted within me that I really don't know how to separate

out the FOG. But yeah, a lot of my doing for her is based on that. I have

often felt I was destroyed by her. (not to let my dad off the hook, because he

pretty much abandoned us, left us with her).

I don't like to blame her, so to speak, because I feel there must be some reason

she is the way she is. And I also think she is very lonely. Somehow I was able

to learn how to make friends and connect with lots of people. Sadly my sister

was not able to choose the right people to be friends with and suffered from

terrible low self esteem, and some of the tendencies I think towards BPD

(perhaps right on the line). Of course there is no diagnosis. So I am just

guessing.

Anyway..thank you again for your words~

~patricia

Re: welcome to group

Hi , welcome and I too am sorry for the loss of your sister. It

sounds like you had a beautiful relationship and that's quite an accomplishment

with having a nada. I am an only child, but I so often read stories on this

list about siblings torn apart by triangulation games from their nada. You

deserve the space and time to grieve a very real loss even if your mother has no

clue.

I too am " this weird emotional hider, and half capable and half weak and

needy. " its an irony to me how many people in my life have thought I was

incredibly strong and others thought I was incredibly needy. Both are true, in

a way. Having a nada requires the ability to shut away part of the self for

safety I think.

While it's true that if one was a truly objective observer, utterly

uninvolved, it would be possible to see a mentally ill mother with great

compassion - it doesn't change that her children are the one's she injures. To

have love and compassion for the one who hurts you - it's a lot to ask, divine

if you will, and aren't we only human? Like the advice before mine you have

the right to protect yourself.