Re: Oh boy I think I made a mistake---Need your thoughts please!

[Guest guest]

Run in the other direction, . Is there a superior you can talk to

about her behavior? Sounds like she's clearly making things at work

uncomfortable for you.

Heidi

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 4:19:43 AM

Subject: Oh boy I think I made a mistake---Need your

thoughts please!

Thankfully I have the day off from work tomorrow...Ok, so this isn't a post

directly about nada but it's a KO questions post...I have become friendly with a

coworker to the point where we exchanged telephone numbers and were trying to

find the time to go to dinner together outside of work.We have talked about our

families,specifical ly our mothers,and I thought that I had met a fellow KO.Her

mother sounds like a nada and so much like mine.We've had many other

conversations about other things too and she seemed like a bright and curious

person and I was looking forward to getting to know her better outside of work

where we could really talk.

Unfortunately a pattern emerged with her where we'd be having these wide ranging

interesting conversations and everything between us seemed good,then she'd come

in to work later and be distant to me.My first reaction is to blame myself and

to wonder how I blundered usually but this time I couldn't help but notice that

NOTHING had happened between the good time I thought we'd had and her coming

into work being distant.Another thing she did was to alternate between praising

me for things I did at work or things I've done in my life and then criticizing

me by suggesting in subtle ways that I wasn't seeing certain things clearly,but

it was ok because she " understands " me.I am immediately suspicious of general

praise.If it's somethinmg in particular that I've done well,ok.But I know that I

am not in a general sense so " amazing " ... And her criticisms felt more like

attempts at undermining my self confidence,like one of the things she asks me

is, " How do you

really know that? " when I express an opinion.

Anyway,there' s more but to make a long story short I thought I saw some red

flags so I began to politely distance myself from her.I speak to her politely in

a neutral way and don't go out of my way to avoid her but I don't seek out her

company.Before I made the decision to do this I did speak to her about her own

being distant and she admitted that she was doing that and said that it was

because she diagreed with some executive decisions I had made.I believed that I

had made the right decisions given the circumstances I was working with and

since she wasn't in a position to impact or change those decisions I considered

her viewpoint,decided that I had done my best,and decided not to dwell on it.She

is free to do as she sees fit on the job and so I am.I don't tell her what I

think she should do and I also don't need to be told how to do my job.

After I adopted a politely neutral stance with her,she began to come in to work

and bluster past me,ignoring me on purpose.I have enough on my plate and since

we had already talked about it,I wasn't going to ask her again what was

wrong.The last time we had spoken it had been friendly and cheerful and now she

seemed to be angry.I swear,nothing had happened.

It was like nada's old silent treatments and sulking.I continued to speak nicely

to her when necessary but went about my work not seeking her out specifically to

talk.This is when she began to give me these long glares across the room or when

I was speaking to someone else.I'd see her giving me these seething looks and I

ignored them.

The other day we were going to have to stagger our lunch hours to accomodate a

project.I went over to her to ask her when she preferred to go to lunch and she

snapped at me, " Oh,so you're speaking to me now? "

I had been " speaking " to her all morning,but only about business.She did this in

front of another co worker.I calmly said, " When wasn't I speaking to you? "

knowing I had a witness but this was probably a mistake.She seethed, " I'll go

after two " then angrily asked me, " When are you going? "

I said calmly, " I can go at two if you want to go after two,that would work-- "

She started to stalk off,seething, " I'll just go at three,then.. . "

I said, " Look,let' s coordinate this.I asked you when you prefer to go to

lunch-- "

She seethed, " You want to go at two,you go at two-- "

" What's the problem? " I asked her. " I asked you a simple question,giving you the

option of when you prefer to take a break and you're using a sarcastic tone with

me and it seems to me that-- "

" I MEANT it to be sarcastic " ,she said and stalked off.

All I had done was ask her when she wanted to go to lunch! My coworker was

clearly taken aback by this exchange and quietly told me when she was going to

have her lunch break and asked me what was wrong with our coworker.I shrugged

and said I didn't know.

Today I tried (a mistake I think) saying hello to this coworker and she snapped

sarcastically at me, " Oh,you're in a good mood today. "

I haven't been in a bad mood at any rate.I said to her (another mistake), " You

haven't been saying hi to me lately and there's no reason for us to not say

hello,so-- "

She snapped, " That is SO not true. "

She's been blustering past me for days not even looking at me when she comes

in.All day long today I noticed her shooting death ray looks at me,like really

seething.Like she hates me.And that is the thing: she seems to have gone from us

talking to totally hating me when I just went about my work day and didn't seek

out her company.She never asked me why,just started being hateful and glaring at

me.

Whenever I do talk to someone else,she then goes over to them later to talk,the

same person.Not because she needs to,but because I did.When we're having a

conversation in a group now,she stares through me then picks apart my input and

walks away if I try to defend my position.

All of it is giving me a feeling of fear,a sinking nasty feeling in the pit of

my stomach.I don't usually feel afraid of people.I've been through alot and

usually I feel confident that I can take care of myself.But she is staring at me

with such hatred and it's so deliberate.. .she seems not at all interested in

knowing why I am putting some space between us and hasn't tried to talk about it

at all,like I did with her...only seems to despise me for it...I think her

distancing before was a control tactic and really when I spoke to her about it I

didn't feel as if we'd really communicated, only that she was criticizing my

decisions to make me doubt them.

I know you guys aren't in this situation with me.I haven't gone into all the

details,either. But I need some shoring up here because she is pushing all of my

KO buttons...I tell myself that it is NOT ok to shoot death glares at someone

from across the office when you haven't even bothered to ask them what's

wrong..or to blow up at someone who is considerately asking you when you prefer

to go to lunch...

Why is it that I even wonder what I did wrong? It's not like I could say to

her, " You know,on reflection because you continue to behave in a rejecting manner

after we seemed to have had a nice time together,I have decided not to seek out

your company " ...It' s not like I'm going to tell her, " I'm beginning to suspect

you are a controlling, manipulative person " ...

Telling me that I was in a " good mood " when I said hello to her when I have been

in the same mood for days while she has been glaring at me...I have a bad

feeling about this,it feels very very off.

Any input would be appreciated! I am reflexively starting to blame myself.I

don't know if this post explained why,but thanks for listening.

[Guest guest]

Been there. Trust your gut. Avoid her like the plague.

>

> Thankfully I have the day off from work tomorrow...Ok,so this isn't a post

directly about nada but it's a KO questions post...I have become friendly with a

coworker to the point where we exchanged telephone numbers and were trying to

find the time to go to dinner together outside of work.We have talked about our

families,specifically our mothers,and I thought that I had met a fellow KO.Her

mother sounds like a nada and so much like mine.We've had many other

conversations about other things too and she seemed like a bright and curious

person and I was looking forward to getting to know her better outside of work

where we could really talk.

>

> Unfortunately a pattern emerged with her where we'd be having these wide

ranging interesting conversations and everything between us seemed good,then

she'd come in to work later and be distant to me.My first reaction is to blame

myself and to wonder how I blundered usually but this time I couldn't help but

notice that NOTHING had happened between the good time I thought we'd had and

her coming into work being distant.Another thing she did was to alternate

between praising me for things I did at work or things I've done in my life and

then criticizing me by suggesting in subtle ways that I wasn't seeing certain

things clearly,but it was ok because she " understands " me.I am immediately

suspicious of general praise.If it's somethinmg in particular that I've done

well,ok.But I know that I am not in a general sense so " amazing " ...And her

criticisms felt more like attempts at undermining my self confidence,like one of

the things she asks me is, " How do you really know that? " when I express an

opinion.

>

> Anyway,there's more but to make a long story short I thought I saw

some red flags so I began to politely distance myself from her.I speak to her

politely in a neutral way and don't go out of my way to avoid her but I don't

seek out her company.Before I made the decision to do this I did speak to her

about her own being distant and she admitted that she was doing that and said

that it was because she diagreed with some executive decisions I had made.I

believed that I had made the right decisions given the circumstances I was

working with and since she wasn't in a position to impact or change those

decisions I considered her viewpoint,decided that I had done my best,and decided

not to dwell on it.She is free to do as she sees fit on the job and so I am.I

don't tell her what I think she should do and I also don't need to be told how

to do my job.

>

> After I adopted a politely neutral stance with her,she began to come in

to work and bluster past me,ignoring me on purpose.I have enough on my plate and

since we had already talked about it,I wasn't going to ask her again what was

wrong.The last time we had spoken it had been friendly and cheerful and now she

seemed to be angry.I swear,nothing had happened.

>

> It was like nada's old silent treatments and sulking.I continued to

speak nicely to her when necessary but went about my work not seeking her out

specifically to talk.This is when she began to give me these long glares across

the room or when I was speaking to someone else.I'd see her giving me these

seething looks and I ignored them.

>

> The other day we were going to have to stagger our lunch hours to

accomodate a project.I went over to her to ask her when she preferred to go to

lunch and she snapped at me, " Oh,so you're speaking to me now? "

>

> I had been " speaking " to her all morning,but only about business.She

did this in front of another co worker.I calmly said, " When wasn't I speaking to

you? " knowing I had a witness but this was probably a mistake.She seethed, " I'll

go after two " then angrily asked me, " When are you going? "

>

> I said calmly, " I can go at two if you want to go after two,that would

work-- "

>

> She started to stalk off,seething, " I'll just go at three,then... "

>

> I said, " Look,let's coordinate this.I asked you when you prefer to go

to lunch-- "

>

> She seethed, " You want to go at two,you go at two-- "

>

> " What's the problem? " I asked her. " I asked you a simple

question,giving you the option of when you prefer to take a break and you're

using a sarcastic tone with me and it seems to me that-- "

>

> " I MEANT it to be sarcastic " ,she said and stalked off.

>

> All I had done was ask her when she wanted to go to lunch! My

coworker was clearly taken aback by this exchange and quietly told me when she

was going to have her lunch break and asked me what was wrong with our

coworker.I shrugged and said I didn't know.

>

> Today I tried (a mistake I think) saying hello to this coworker and

she snapped sarcastically at me, " Oh,you're in a good mood today. "

>

> I haven't been in a bad mood at any rate.I said to her (another

mistake), " You haven't been saying hi to me lately and there's no reason for us

to not say hello,so-- "

>

> She snapped, " That is SO not true. "

>

> She's been blustering past me for days not even looking at me when

she comes in.All day long today I noticed her shooting death ray looks at

me,like really seething.Like she hates me.And that is the thing: she seems to

have gone from us talking to totally hating me when I just went about my work

day and didn't seek out her company.She never asked me why,just started being

hateful and glaring at me.

>

> Whenever I do talk to someone else,she then goes over to them later to

talk,the same person.Not because she needs to,but because I did.When we're

having a conversation in a group now,she stares through me then picks apart my

input and walks away if I try to defend my position.

>

> All of it is giving me a feeling of fear,a sinking nasty feeling in

the pit of my stomach.I don't usually feel afraid of people.I've been through

alot and usually I feel confident that I can take care of myself.But she is

staring at me with such hatred and it's so deliberate...she seems not at all

interested in knowing why I am putting some space between us and hasn't tried to

talk about it at all,like I did with her...only seems to despise me for it...I

think her distancing before was a control tactic and really when I spoke to her

about it I didn't feel as if we'd really communicated,only that she was

criticizing my decisions to make me doubt them.

>

> I know you guys aren't in this situation with me.I haven't gone into

all the details,either.But I need some shoring up here because she is pushing

all of my KO buttons...I tell myself that it is NOT ok to shoot death glares at

someone from across the office when you haven't even bothered to ask them what's

wrong..or to blow up at someone who is considerately asking you when you prefer

to go to lunch...

>

> Why is it that I even wonder what I did wrong? It's not like I could say

to her, " You know,on reflection because you continue to behave in a rejecting

manner after we seemed to have had a nice time together,I have decided not to

seek out your company " ...It's not like I'm going to tell her, " I'm beginning to

suspect you are a controlling,manipulative person " ...

>

> Telling me that I was in a " good mood " when I said hello to her when I

have been in the same mood for days while she has been glaring at me...I have a

bad feeling about this,it feels very very off.

>

> Any input would be appreciated! I am reflexively starting to blame

myself.I don't know if this post explained why,but thanks for listening.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,Heidi.Thanks for your reply.The absurd part of this is that I am a " superior "

myself and so is she.This isn't a situation where I can request an intermediary

and still appear competent or go running to HR.I work in a high stakes,cut

throat environment and we both know this...oh,does she know it...I'm going to

have to let her hang herself with her own rope but you're right: running in the

other direction is needed here...I have been shambling in the other direction

and that is what has provoked her ire but I might as well break into a trot at

this point...looks like this one is going to be a lesson in learning how to

assert myself/protect myself.

It helps to put this stuff out there because my tendency to take on the

blame is very strong and I thank you very much for backing me up.

>

> Run in the other direction, . Is there a superior you can talk to

about her behavior? Sounds like she's clearly making things at work

uncomfortable for you.

>

> Heidi

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 4:19:43 AM

> Subject: Oh boy I think I made a mistake---Need your

thoughts please!

>

>

> Thankfully I have the day off from work tomorrow...Ok, so this isn't a post

directly about nada but it's a KO questions post...I have become friendly with a

coworker to the point where we exchanged telephone numbers and were trying to

find the time to go to dinner together outside of work.We have talked about our

families,specifical ly our mothers,and I thought that I had met a fellow KO.Her

mother sounds like a nada and so much like mine.We've had many other

conversations about other things too and she seemed like a bright and curious

person and I was looking forward to getting to know her better outside of work

where we could really talk.

>

> Unfortunately a pattern emerged with her where we'd be having these wide

ranging interesting conversations and everything between us seemed good,then

she'd come in to work later and be distant to me.My first reaction is to blame

myself and to wonder how I blundered usually but this time I couldn't help but

notice that NOTHING had happened between the good time I thought we'd had and

her coming into work being distant.Another thing she did was to alternate

between praising me for things I did at work or things I've done in my life and

then criticizing me by suggesting in subtle ways that I wasn't seeing certain

things clearly,but it was ok because she " understands " me.I am immediately

suspicious of general praise.If it's somethinmg in particular that I've done

well,ok.But I know that I am not in a general sense so " amazing " ... And her

criticisms felt more like attempts at undermining my self confidence,like one of

the things she asks me is, " How do you

> really know that? " when I express an opinion.

>

> Anyway,there' s more but to make a long story short I thought I saw some red

flags so I began to politely distance myself from her.I speak to her politely in

a neutral way and don't go out of my way to avoid her but I don't seek out her

company.Before I made the decision to do this I did speak to her about her own

being distant and she admitted that she was doing that and said that it was

because she diagreed with some executive decisions I had made.I believed that I

had made the right decisions given the circumstances I was working with and

since she wasn't in a position to impact or change those decisions I considered

her viewpoint,decided that I had done my best,and decided not to dwell on it.She

is free to do as she sees fit on the job and so I am.I don't tell her what I

think she should do and I also don't need to be told how to do my job.

>

> After I adopted a politely neutral stance with her,she began to come in to

work and bluster past me,ignoring me on purpose.I have enough on my plate and

since we had already talked about it,I wasn't going to ask her again what was

wrong.The last time we had spoken it had been friendly and cheerful and now she

seemed to be angry.I swear,nothing had happened.

>

> It was like nada's old silent treatments and sulking.I continued to speak

nicely to her when necessary but went about my work not seeking her out

specifically to talk.This is when she began to give me these long glares across

the room or when I was speaking to someone else.I'd see her giving me these

seething looks and I ignored them.

>

> The other day we were going to have to stagger our lunch hours to accomodate a

project.I went over to her to ask her when she preferred to go to lunch and she

snapped at me, " Oh,so you're speaking to me now? "

>

> I had been " speaking " to her all morning,but only about business.She did this

in front of another co worker.I calmly said, " When wasn't I speaking to you? "

knowing I had a witness but this was probably a mistake.She seethed, " I'll go

after two " then angrily asked me, " When are you going? "

>

> I said calmly, " I can go at two if you want to go after two,that would work-- "

>

> She started to stalk off,seething, " I'll just go at three,then.. . "

>

> I said, " Look,let' s coordinate this.I asked you when you prefer to go to

lunch-- "

>

> She seethed, " You want to go at two,you go at two-- "

>

> " What's the problem? " I asked her. " I asked you a simple question,giving you

the option of when you prefer to take a break and you're using a sarcastic tone

with me and it seems to me that-- "

>

> " I MEANT it to be sarcastic " ,she said and stalked off.

>

> All I had done was ask her when she wanted to go to lunch! My coworker was

clearly taken aback by this exchange and quietly told me when she was going to

have her lunch break and asked me what was wrong with our coworker.I shrugged

and said I didn't know.

>

> Today I tried (a mistake I think) saying hello to this coworker and she

snapped sarcastically at me, " Oh,you're in a good mood today. "

>

> I haven't been in a bad mood at any rate.I said to her (another mistake), " You

haven't been saying hi to me lately and there's no reason for us to not say

hello,so-- "

>

> She snapped, " That is SO not true. "

>

> She's been blustering past me for days not even looking at me when she comes

in.All day long today I noticed her shooting death ray looks at me,like really

seething.Like she hates me.And that is the thing: she seems to have gone from us

talking to totally hating me when I just went about my work day and didn't seek

out her company.She never asked me why,just started being hateful and glaring at

me.

>

> Whenever I do talk to someone else,she then goes over to them later to

talk,the same person.Not because she needs to,but because I did.When we're

having a conversation in a group now,she stares through me then picks apart my

input and walks away if I try to defend my position.

>

> All of it is giving me a feeling of fear,a sinking nasty feeling in the pit of

my stomach.I don't usually feel afraid of people.I've been through alot and

usually I feel confident that I can take care of myself.But she is staring at me

with such hatred and it's so deliberate.. .she seems not at all interested in

knowing why I am putting some space between us and hasn't tried to talk about it

at all,like I did with her...only seems to despise me for it...I think her

distancing before was a control tactic and really when I spoke to her about it I

didn't feel as if we'd really communicated, only that she was criticizing my

decisions to make me doubt them.

>

> I know you guys aren't in this situation with me.I haven't gone into all the

details,either. But I need some shoring up here because she is pushing all of my

KO buttons...I tell myself that it is NOT ok to shoot death glares at someone

from across the office when you haven't even bothered to ask them what's

wrong..or to blow up at someone who is considerately asking you when you prefer

to go to lunch...

>

> Why is it that I even wonder what I did wrong? It's not like I could say to

her, " You know,on reflection because you continue to behave in a rejecting manner

after we seemed to have had a nice time together,I have decided not to seek out

your company " ...It' s not like I'm going to tell her, " I'm beginning to suspect

you are a controlling, manipulative person " ...

>

> Telling me that I was in a " good mood " when I said hello to her when I have

been in the same mood for days while she has been glaring at me...I have a bad

feeling about this,it feels very very off.

>

> Any input would be appreciated! I am reflexively starting to blame myself.I

don't know if this post explained why,but thanks for listening.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Abby,my gut tells me that I'm dealing with a " psycho " ...those seething looks...I

have to remind myself that my gut reaction means something this time and isn't

" just " coming from my own issues and not to be suckered in by anything she does

that might seem " nice " after she has shown that she couldn't care less about any

distress she has caused me.I'm glad that I didn't get even more involved with

her and was able to see a problem fairly quickly this time.I'm still

learning,apparently and it will be interesting to see what " avoiding her like

the plague " brings about.More lessons to learn no doubt but so be it.The yuck

factor is very high here for me and I suppose it's a step forward to be

proceeding from yuck instead of from " Oh golly gee what did I do wrong again and

how can I fix this " ...I have been so twistedly trained to be someone's whipping

post but not this time.

Thanks,

> >

> > Thankfully I have the day off from work tomorrow...Ok,so this isn't a post

directly about nada but it's a KO questions post...I have become friendly with a

coworker to the point where we exchanged telephone numbers and were trying to

find the time to go to dinner together outside of work.We have talked about our

families,specifically our mothers,and I thought that I had met a fellow KO.Her

mother sounds like a nada and so much like mine.We've had many other

conversations about other things too and she seemed like a bright and curious

person and I was looking forward to getting to know her better outside of work

where we could really talk.

> >

> > Unfortunately a pattern emerged with her where we'd be having these

wide ranging interesting conversations and everything between us seemed

good,then she'd come in to work later and be distant to me.My first reaction is

to blame myself and to wonder how I blundered usually but this time I couldn't

help but notice that NOTHING had happened between the good time I thought we'd

had and her coming into work being distant.Another thing she did was to

alternate between praising me for things I did at work or things I've done in my

life and then criticizing me by suggesting in subtle ways that I wasn't seeing

certain things clearly,but it was ok because she " understands " me.I am

immediately suspicious of general praise.If it's somethinmg in particular that

I've done well,ok.But I know that I am not in a general sense so " amazing " ...And

her criticisms felt more like attempts at undermining my self confidence,like

one of the things she asks me is, " How do you really know that? " when I express

an opinion.

> >

> > Anyway,there's more but to make a long story short I thought I saw

some red flags so I began to politely distance myself from her.I speak to her

politely in a neutral way and don't go out of my way to avoid her but I don't

seek out her company.Before I made the decision to do this I did speak to her

about her own being distant and she admitted that she was doing that and said

that it was because she diagreed with some executive decisions I had made.I

believed that I had made the right decisions given the circumstances I was

working with and since she wasn't in a position to impact or change those

decisions I considered her viewpoint,decided that I had done my best,and decided

not to dwell on it.She is free to do as she sees fit on the job and so I am.I

don't tell her what I think she should do and I also don't need to be told how

to do my job.

> >

> > After I adopted a politely neutral stance with her,she began to come

in to work and bluster past me,ignoring me on purpose.I have enough on my plate

and since we had already talked about it,I wasn't going to ask her again what

was wrong.The last time we had spoken it had been friendly and cheerful and now

she seemed to be angry.I swear,nothing had happened.

> >

> > It was like nada's old silent treatments and sulking.I continued to

speak nicely to her when necessary but went about my work not seeking her out

specifically to talk.This is when she began to give me these long glares across

the room or when I was speaking to someone else.I'd see her giving me these

seething looks and I ignored them.

> >

> > The other day we were going to have to stagger our lunch hours to

accomodate a project.I went over to her to ask her when she preferred to go to

lunch and she snapped at me, " Oh,so you're speaking to me now? "

> >

> > I had been " speaking " to her all morning,but only about business.She

did this in front of another co worker.I calmly said, " When wasn't I speaking to

you? " knowing I had a witness but this was probably a mistake.She seethed, " I'll

go after two " then angrily asked me, " When are you going? "

> >

> > I said calmly, " I can go at two if you want to go after two,that would

work-- "

> >

> > She started to stalk off,seething, " I'll just go at three,then... "

> >

> > I said, " Look,let's coordinate this.I asked you when you prefer to go

to lunch-- "

> >

> > She seethed, " You want to go at two,you go at two-- "

> >

> > " What's the problem? " I asked her. " I asked you a simple

question,giving you the option of when you prefer to take a break and you're

using a sarcastic tone with me and it seems to me that-- "

> >

> > " I MEANT it to be sarcastic " ,she said and stalked off.

> >

> > All I had done was ask her when she wanted to go to lunch! My

coworker was clearly taken aback by this exchange and quietly told me when she

was going to have her lunch break and asked me what was wrong with our

coworker.I shrugged and said I didn't know.

> >

> > Today I tried (a mistake I think) saying hello to this coworker

and she snapped sarcastically at me, " Oh,you're in a good mood today. "

> >

> > I haven't been in a bad mood at any rate.I said to her (another

mistake), " You haven't been saying hi to me lately and there's no reason for us

to not say hello,so-- "

> >

> > She snapped, " That is SO not true. "

> >

> > She's been blustering past me for days not even looking at me when

she comes in.All day long today I noticed her shooting death ray looks at

me,like really seething.Like she hates me.And that is the thing: she seems to

have gone from us talking to totally hating me when I just went about my work

day and didn't seek out her company.She never asked me why,just started being

hateful and glaring at me.

> >

> > Whenever I do talk to someone else,she then goes over to them later

to talk,the same person.Not because she needs to,but because I did.When we're

having a conversation in a group now,she stares through me then picks apart my

input and walks away if I try to defend my position.

> >

> > All of it is giving me a feeling of fear,a sinking nasty feeling in

the pit of my stomach.I don't usually feel afraid of people.I've been through

alot and usually I feel confident that I can take care of myself.But she is

staring at me with such hatred and it's so deliberate...she seems not at all

interested in knowing why I am putting some space between us and hasn't tried to

talk about it at all,like I did with her...only seems to despise me for it...I

think her distancing before was a control tactic and really when I spoke to her

about it I didn't feel as if we'd really communicated,only that she was

criticizing my decisions to make me doubt them.

> >

> > I know you guys aren't in this situation with me.I haven't gone into

all the details,either.But I need some shoring up here because she is pushing

all of my KO buttons...I tell myself that it is NOT ok to shoot death glares at

someone from across the office when you haven't even bothered to ask them what's

wrong..or to blow up at someone who is considerately asking you when you prefer

to go to lunch...

> >

> > Why is it that I even wonder what I did wrong? It's not like I could

say to her, " You know,on reflection because you continue to behave in a rejecting

manner after we seemed to have had a nice time together,I have decided not to

seek out your company " ...It's not like I'm going to tell her, " I'm beginning to

suspect you are a controlling,manipulative person " ...

> >

> > Telling me that I was in a " good mood " when I said hello to her when

I have been in the same mood for days while she has been glaring at me...I have

a bad feeling about this,it feels very very off.

> >

> > Any input would be appreciated! I am reflexively starting to blame

myself.I don't know if this post explained why,but thanks for listening.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,Annie.Thank you for the validation.I was picking up antisocial pd traits

myself from this person but since my nada has these I wondered if I was making a

mountain out of a molehill...I feel like I really have stumbled into a " hornet's

nest " and it just helps,for reasons I can't quite express,to hear someone else

say the same thing.

My partner told me to " put it out of your mind and not let it bother

you " ...but..that is not going to quite work.I keep going back in my mind to when

I might have detected any warning signs but either I have big blinders I am not

yet aware of or there weren't any until it got to the point where I finally saw

some red flags and when I did and drew back,it was the drawing back that made

her really take off her mask and reveal herself for the pugnacious,petty nasty

mongerer that she actually is.

I agree with you that it is prudent not to have affective relationships

with people from your workplace.At my place of work we often socialize on our

own time and I have gone out with other co-workers just for fun and it's been

fine,a light hearted time.I'm friends with a few of my co-workers out of work

and we know to leave our personal relationships at the door when we come in to

work,in the interests of being fair and impartial to others we work with.The

person I am having the problem with was sent to work with us for only a few

months while the company is being streamlined and won't be in the same offices

with me in a few months--it was a mistake but I thought that since we wouldn't

be working together long term that it wouldn't " matter " if we developed a more

involved connection.For me,it was only ever going to be a friendship.She knows I

have a partner and what is disturbing me now is that she is behaving like a

jilted lover,that is very creepy to me because from my side I never suggested to

her that I was interested in her in that way.

Sometimes we are forced to see that we are displaying a neediness we were

disowning.In my case it is a deep need to have someone in my life--and

participating on this board is very helpful but I mean having a flesh and blood

human being IN MY LIFE--who really gets and understands my experience.I censor

myself alot with my partner who was loved by her parents.There is a disconnect

between us from the core of my being to hers that I find very trying at times.I

would love to be able to just be me,with my experience,with someone and to not

have to explain and clarify where I'm coming from.

I have realized from how it has gone so horribly wrong with this person at

work that this need of mine makes me vulnerable and exposes me to people who

would take advantage of my deep need to be understood and accepted as a

victim/survivor of stuff most people never experience.Not all people who have

had a KO type experience are going to have scruples as a result or a

compassionate response to my suffering.I think this person at work has been

damaged to a degree of being dangerous instead of being at the point of honestly

confronting her traumas and honestly dealing with them.I thought we were in the

same place with that because until I put some space between us she was " easy " to

talk to: very intelligent,rational,seemingly insightful.But she fell apart when

I drew back and lashed out rather than trying to communicate with me.I'm getting

negative on top of negative--she rebuffs anything I say or do now with a

pugnacious,negative lashing out type response.And you're right that it's an

extreme response to mild misunderstandings.

As to leaving my department...I own that department and I'm not leaving

it.I was promoted to this position last fall.It was a failing division and I was

entrusted with geting it back into shape.I have worked hard and long hours and

have driven the company's profits up 135% in an ailing economy.I'm not going to

allow a mediocrity with a personal vendetta to trash my achievements.She will

leave that department,sooner than expected if need be,not me.

I am so tired--so tired--of learning my lessons the hard way.It has

helped to post about this problem and your response helped alot because you

didn't sugar coat it.It's really hard to keep all the sh*t I went through in my

FOO in all the details at the forefront of my mind,impossible really.It's too

damned much.I'm not superhuman.I can't always see where I'm screwing up WHEN I

am screwing up and if damage control is where I am right now,that is what it is

and I will learn from it.

If you don't know what you're doing wrong,you can't correct it.It is

better to discover what you didn't know at times.I'm still having to learn how

to care for myself and protect myself.I feel like a mere babe in the woods much

of the time.That has got to end,even if it's hard and even if it hurts.

I intend to view this bitter experience as a point forward.

Thank you for listenining and for being here

> >

> > Thankfully I have the day off from work tomorrow...Ok,so this isn't a post

directly about nada but it's a KO questions post...I have become friendly with a

coworker to the point where we exchanged telephone numbers and were trying to

find the time to go to dinner together outside of work.We have talked about our

families,specifically our mothers,and I thought that I had met a fellow KO.Her

mother sounds like a nada and so much like mine.We've had many other

conversations about other things too and she seemed like a bright and curious

person and I was looking forward to getting to know her better outside of work

where we could really talk.

> >

> > Unfortunately a pattern emerged with her where we'd be having these

wide ranging interesting conversations and everything between us seemed

good,then she'd come in to work later and be distant to me.My first reaction is

to blame myself and to wonder how I blundered usually but this time I couldn't

help but notice that NOTHING had happened between the good time I thought we'd

had and her coming into work being distant.Another thing she did was to

alternate between praising me for things I did at work or things I've done in my

life and then criticizing me by suggesting in subtle ways that I wasn't seeing

certain things clearly,but it was ok because she " understands " me.I am

immediately suspicious of general praise.If it's somethinmg in particular that

I've done well,ok.But I know that I am not in a general sense so " amazing " ...And

her criticisms felt more like attempts at undermining my self confidence,like

one of the things she asks me is, " How do you really know that? " when I express

an opinion.

> >

> > Anyway,there's more but to make a long story short I thought I saw

some red flags so I began to politely distance myself from her.I speak to her

politely in a neutral way and don't go out of my way to avoid her but I don't

seek out her company.Before I made the decision to do this I did speak to her

about her own being distant and she admitted that she was doing that and said

that it was because she diagreed with some executive decisions I had made.I

believed that I had made the right decisions given the circumstances I was

working with and since she wasn't in a position to impact or change those

decisions I considered her viewpoint,decided that I had done my best,and decided

not to dwell on it.She is free to do as she sees fit on the job and so I am.I

don't tell her what I think she should do and I also don't need to be told how

to do my job.

> >

> > After I adopted a politely neutral stance with her,she began to come

in to work and bluster past me,ignoring me on purpose.I have enough on my plate

and since we had already talked about it,I wasn't going to ask her again what

was wrong.The last time we had spoken it had been friendly and cheerful and now

she seemed to be angry.I swear,nothing had happened.

> >

> > It was like nada's old silent treatments and sulking.I continued to

speak nicely to her when necessary but went about my work not seeking her out

specifically to talk.This is when she began to give me these long glares across

the room or when I was speaking to someone else.I'd see her giving me these

seething looks and I ignored them.

> >

> > The other day we were going to have to stagger our lunch hours to

accomodate a project.I went over to her to ask her when she preferred to go to

lunch and she snapped at me, " Oh,so you're speaking to me now? "

> >

> > I had been " speaking " to her all morning,but only about business.She

did this in front of another co worker.I calmly said, " When wasn't I speaking to

you? " knowing I had a witness but this was probably a mistake.She seethed, " I'll

go after two " then angrily asked me, " When are you going? "

> >

> > I said calmly, " I can go at two if you want to go after two,that would

work-- "

> >

> > She started to stalk off,seething, " I'll just go at three,then... "

> >

> > I said, " Look,let's coordinate this.I asked you when you prefer to go

to lunch-- "

> >

> > She seethed, " You want to go at two,you go at two-- "

> >

> > " What's the problem? " I asked her. " I asked you a simple

question,giving you the option of when you prefer to take a break and you're

using a sarcastic tone with me and it seems to me that-- "

> >

> > " I MEANT it to be sarcastic " ,she said and stalked off.

> >

> > All I had done was ask her when she wanted to go to lunch! My

coworker was clearly taken aback by this exchange and quietly told me when she

was going to have her lunch break and asked me what was wrong with our

coworker.I shrugged and said I didn't know.

> >

> > Today I tried (a mistake I think) saying hello to this coworker

and she snapped sarcastically at me, " Oh,you're in a good mood today. "

> >

> > I haven't been in a bad mood at any rate.I said to her (another

mistake), " You haven't been saying hi to me lately and there's no reason for us

to not say hello,so-- "

> >

> > She snapped, " That is SO not true. "

> >

> > She's been blustering past me for days not even looking at me when

she comes in.All day long today I noticed her shooting death ray looks at

me,like really seething.Like she hates me.And that is the thing: she seems to

have gone from us talking to totally hating me when I just went about my work

day and didn't seek out her company.She never asked me why,just started being

hateful and glaring at me.

> >

> > Whenever I do talk to someone else,she then goes over to them later

to talk,the same person.Not because she needs to,but because I did.When we're

having a conversation in a group now,she stares through me then picks apart my

input and walks away if I try to defend my position.

> >

> > All of it is giving me a feeling of fear,a sinking nasty feeling in

the pit of my stomach.I don't usually feel afraid of people.I've been through

alot and usually I feel confident that I can take care of myself.But she is

staring at me with such hatred and it's so deliberate...she seems not at all

interested in knowing why I am putting some space between us and hasn't tried to

talk about it at all,like I did with her...only seems to despise me for it...I

think her distancing before was a control tactic and really when I spoke to her

about it I didn't feel as if we'd really communicated,only that she was

criticizing my decisions to make me doubt them.

> >

> > I know you guys aren't in this situation with me.I haven't gone into

all the details,either.But I need some shoring up here because she is pushing

all of my KO buttons...I tell myself that it is NOT ok to shoot death glares at

someone from across the office when you haven't even bothered to ask them what's

wrong..or to blow up at someone who is considerately asking you when you prefer

to go to lunch...

> >

> > Why is it that I even wonder what I did wrong? It's not like I could

say to her, " You know,on reflection because you continue to behave in a rejecting

manner after we seemed to have had a nice time together,I have decided not to

seek out your company " ...It's not like I'm going to tell her, " I'm beginning to

suspect you are a controlling,manipulative person " ...

> >

> > Telling me that I was in a " good mood " when I said hello to her when

I have been in the same mood for days while she has been glaring at me...I have

a bad feeling about this,it feels very very off.

> >

> > Any input would be appreciated! I am reflexively starting to blame

myself.I don't know if this post explained why,but thanks for listening.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, you're not alone. We're only human. Like you, I have to learn things the

hard way all too frequently. Thank goodness this co-worker's time in your area

was meant to be temporary to begin with. Whew!

A good rule of thumb that I read at another group is that if you meet someone

new and find them very, VERY interesting and appealing right away, then they are

triggering (in an unconscious way) your " this-is

familiar-behavior-and-therefor-this-person-is-safe-and-appropriate " receptors

that your brain was programmed with with by your parents/primary caregiver.

This happened to me at work, too. I was very attracted to a somewhat older man

who was one of my supervisors; I enjoyed having lunches with him several times a

month. We were just friends, co-workers, and he was a charming fellow whom I

also respected on a professional level. In the end he turned out to be not so

charming; he was reporting every word I said to him in confidence (re being

unhappy with upper management) back to his boss, who was looking to get me

fired. My " friend " was a spy!

After I had escaped from that department into the open and welcoming arms of

another, nice department (whew!) I happened to be looking at some old family

photos, and was struck speechless as I gazed at an old picture of my dad. My

" friend " at work looked eerily similar to my dad at that age, from about

20-some-odd years earlier. So, I got a double whammy: my " friend's " charming

behaviors were like my nada's, and he looked like a long-forgotten younger

version of my dad. I didn't have a chance!

Anyway, if you can just avoid this insane co-worker until her time's up that

would probably be the best solution, unless she is actively trying to sabotage

your authority or doing other things that interfere with production, causing

co-workers distress, etc., then, maybe you can fire her crazy ass.

But there is a whole other can of worms to consider when you find you need to

fire a " Cluster B " individual. They are litigious and will fight you, blame

you, wrap themselves in victim-hood, and... they like to get revenge.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Thankfully I have the day off from work tomorrow...Ok,so this isn't a post

directly about nada but it's a KO questions post...I have become friendly with a

coworker to the point where we exchanged telephone numbers and were trying to

find the time to go to dinner together outside of work.We have talked about our

families,specifically our mothers,and I thought that I had met a fellow KO.Her

mother sounds like a nada and so much like mine.We've had many other

conversations about other things too and she seemed like a bright and curious

person and I was looking forward to getting to know her better outside of work

where we could really talk.

> > >

> > > Unfortunately a pattern emerged with her where we'd be having these

wide ranging interesting conversations and everything between us seemed

good,then she'd come in to work later and be distant to me.My first reaction is

to blame myself and to wonder how I blundered usually but this time I couldn't

help but notice that NOTHING had happened between the good time I thought we'd

had and her coming into work being distant.Another thing she did was to

alternate between praising me for things I did at work or things I've done in my

life and then criticizing me by suggesting in subtle ways that I wasn't seeing

certain things clearly,but it was ok because she " understands " me.I am

immediately suspicious of general praise.If it's somethinmg in particular that

I've done well,ok.But I know that I am not in a general sense so " amazing " ...And

her criticisms felt more like attempts at undermining my self confidence,like

one of the things she asks me is, " How do you really know that? " when I express

an opinion.

> > >

> > > Anyway,there's more but to make a long story short I thought I saw

some red flags so I began to politely distance myself from her.I speak to her

politely in a neutral way and don't go out of my way to avoid her but I don't

seek out her company.Before I made the decision to do this I did speak to her

about her own being distant and she admitted that she was doing that and said

that it was because she diagreed with some executive decisions I had made.I

believed that I had made the right decisions given the circumstances I was

working with and since she wasn't in a position to impact or change those

decisions I considered her viewpoint,decided that I had done my best,and decided

not to dwell on it.She is free to do as she sees fit on the job and so I am.I

don't tell her what I think she should do and I also don't need to be told how

to do my job.

> > >

> > > After I adopted a politely neutral stance with her,she began to

come in to work and bluster past me,ignoring me on purpose.I have enough on my

plate and since we had already talked about it,I wasn't going to ask her again

what was wrong.The last time we had spoken it had been friendly and cheerful and

now she seemed to be angry.I swear,nothing had happened.

> > >

> > > It was like nada's old silent treatments and sulking.I continued to

speak nicely to her when necessary but went about my work not seeking her out

specifically to talk.This is when she began to give me these long glares across

the room or when I was speaking to someone else.I'd see her giving me these

seething looks and I ignored them.

> > >

> > > The other day we were going to have to stagger our lunch hours to

accomodate a project.I went over to her to ask her when she preferred to go to

lunch and she snapped at me, " Oh,so you're speaking to me now? "

> > >

> > > I had been " speaking " to her all morning,but only about

business.She did this in front of another co worker.I calmly said, " When wasn't I

speaking to you? " knowing I had a witness but this was probably a mistake.She

seethed, " I'll go after two " then angrily asked me, " When are you going? "

> > >

> > > I said calmly, " I can go at two if you want to go after two,that

would work-- "

> > >

> > > She started to stalk off,seething, " I'll just go at three,then... "

> > >

> > > I said, " Look,let's coordinate this.I asked you when you prefer to

go to lunch-- "

> > >

> > > She seethed, " You want to go at two,you go at two-- "

> > >

> > > " What's the problem? " I asked her. " I asked you a simple

question,giving you the option of when you prefer to take a break and you're

using a sarcastic tone with me and it seems to me that-- "

> > >

> > > " I MEANT it to be sarcastic " ,she said and stalked off.

> > >

> > > All I had done was ask her when she wanted to go to lunch! My

coworker was clearly taken aback by this exchange and quietly told me when she

was going to have her lunch break and asked me what was wrong with our

coworker.I shrugged and said I didn't know.

> > >

> > > Today I tried (a mistake I think) saying hello to this coworker

and she snapped sarcastically at me, " Oh,you're in a good mood today. "

> > >

> > > I haven't been in a bad mood at any rate.I said to her (another

mistake), " You haven't been saying hi to me lately and there's no reason for us

to not say hello,so-- "

> > >

> > > She snapped, " That is SO not true. "

> > >

> > > She's been blustering past me for days not even looking at me

when she comes in.All day long today I noticed her shooting death ray looks at

me,like really seething.Like she hates me.And that is the thing: she seems to

have gone from us talking to totally hating me when I just went about my work

day and didn't seek out her company.She never asked me why,just started being

hateful and glaring at me.

> > >

> > > Whenever I do talk to someone else,she then goes over to them

later to talk,the same person.Not because she needs to,but because I did.When

we're having a conversation in a group now,she stares through me then picks

apart my input and walks away if I try to defend my position.

> > >

> > > All of it is giving me a feeling of fear,a sinking nasty feeling

in the pit of my stomach.I don't usually feel afraid of people.I've been through

alot and usually I feel confident that I can take care of myself.But she is

staring at me with such hatred and it's so deliberate...she seems not at all

interested in knowing why I am putting some space between us and hasn't tried to

talk about it at all,like I did with her...only seems to despise me for it...I

think her distancing before was a control tactic and really when I spoke to her

about it I didn't feel as if we'd really communicated,only that she was

criticizing my decisions to make me doubt them.

> > >

> > > I know you guys aren't in this situation with me.I haven't gone

into all the details,either.But I need some shoring up here because she is

pushing all of my KO buttons...I tell myself that it is NOT ok to shoot death

glares at someone from across the office when you haven't even bothered to ask

them what's wrong..or to blow up at someone who is considerately asking you when

you prefer to go to lunch...

> > >

> > > Why is it that I even wonder what I did wrong? It's not like I could

say to her, " You know,on reflection because you continue to behave in a rejecting

manner after we seemed to have had a nice time together,I have decided not to

seek out your company " ...It's not like I'm going to tell her, " I'm beginning to

suspect you are a controlling,manipulative person " ...

> > >

> > > Telling me that I was in a " good mood " when I said hello to her

when I have been in the same mood for days while she has been glaring at me...I

have a bad feeling about this,it feels very very off.

> > >

> > > Any input would be appreciated! I am reflexively starting to blame

myself.I don't know if this post explained why,but thanks for listening.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My god,Annie,your coworker was frankly a bastard.That must have felt like such a

betrayal.Nasty jerk,sitting there smiling at you over dinner,then stabbing you

in the back.What an utter slime.Zero integrity,if you ask me.

I hear you about certain types triggering our " this is familiar therefore

safe " response.I'm so sorry you didn't meet a guy like dear old dad who could be

trusted--it's not so unusual for anyone to be attracted to people who resemble a

parent,in fact it's pretty damned normal.Tragically,we didn't get " normal " ,we

got being hurt by the associations we quite naturally make.And it's uncanny

isn't it how it all tends to so closely resemble how we were originally betrayed

by a parent who wasn't there for us as they should have been.You should have had

a chance,you know.Seeing how your former co-worker looked like a younger version

of your father shouldn't have been you having to think that you never had a

chance--it shouldn't have been that intense and painful--it's like none of

us,children or spouses,ever have a chance with these pds.I hope this isn't too

much--maybe it is--but that makes me angry for you.And that co-worker was an

effing bastard.

Good thing you went to another,better department after that.

I am noticing something while I've had some time off from work to mull

over this situation.I took a couple of days off,taking care of myself for once

because I felt like this attracting a psycho at this point in my healing is

pretty major and needs some thought.The thing is,I'm having some trouble

accepting that my co-worker is effed up to the marrow.I believe that is what I'm

truly dealing with,someone with a profound,pervasive pd,whether that be BPD or

antisocial pd or Cluster B pea soup or whatever...Something that has continued

to drag me down into can't-let-it-go anger is how the people in my life when I

was a child never intervened or even once suggested to me that I was in a bad

situation that wasn't of my making nor my fault...I felt often ignored or blamed

for the abuse...but I am seeing,thanks perversely to the circumstances at

work,how it FEELS to not want to believe that someone is as deeply disturbed as

I suspect...and to want to make excuses in order to make it all be " not that

bad " and to deny the evil I sense...I am realizing how hard it actually is to

take in the reality of simple evil...and of how the witnesses in my childhood

must have felt and they didn't even know what I know about pds...like an anger I

have held on to is dropping away...yes,they didn't want to know...but I can feel

what that feels like now,because if I'm honest,I don't want to

know,either...that my co-worker might be capable of god knows what

nastiness,because she is rotten to the core...rotten to the core...it's actually

pretty hard to say to yourself that so-and-so has no redeeming qualities...and

if I try to imagine fada being married to nada and being able to admit that to

himself...I can see how enormously difficult that would have been to take in,if

it's hard for me to do with a mere co-worker.It doesn't excuse his neglect and

enabling,but evil truly is hard to wrap your head around.

Coming to terms with the past can occur in some very unexpected ways.I

realize that I am also unable to accept evil as it is; that I am also hard wired

to want to believe that there is some other explanation,it feels so

un-natural,that anyone could be deliberately destructive and to deliberately

wish me--or anyone else--ill.

I'm going to be careful and not openly point the finger at this

co-worker but somehow I'm not going to tolerate being mauled by what I guess is

a human version of a rabid animal.Sad to say,but that seems to be the case

here.See how I said " seems " ! It just makes the blood run cold to say " it IS " .

I thank you for sharing your story,Annie,and for letting me know I'm not

alone in the " hard lessons " learned camp.Your story reminded me of how often we

as KOs really don't deserve the crap our lives dump on us.As an observer to your

story my reaction is that it shouldn't have happened to you like that: that guy

was dastardly and you didn't deserve having your trust violated like that.

> > > >

> > > > Thankfully I have the day off from work tomorrow...Ok,so this isn't a

post directly about nada but it's a KO questions post...I have become friendly

with a coworker to the point where we exchanged telephone numbers and were

trying to find the time to go to dinner together outside of work.We have talked

about our families,specifically our mothers,and I thought that I had met a

fellow KO.Her mother sounds like a nada and so much like mine.We've had many

other conversations about other things too and she seemed like a bright and

curious person and I was looking forward to getting to know her better outside

of work where we could really talk.

> > > >

> > > > Unfortunately a pattern emerged with her where we'd be having

these wide ranging interesting conversations and everything between us seemed

good,then she'd come in to work later and be distant to me.My first reaction is

to blame myself and to wonder how I blundered usually but this time I couldn't

help but notice that NOTHING had happened between the good time I thought we'd

had and her coming into work being distant.Another thing she did was to

alternate between praising me for things I did at work or things I've done in my

life and then criticizing me by suggesting in subtle ways that I wasn't seeing

certain things clearly,but it was ok because she " understands " me.I am

immediately suspicious of general praise.If it's somethinmg in particular that

I've done well,ok.But I know that I am not in a general sense so " amazing " ...And

her criticisms felt more like attempts at undermining my self confidence,like

one of the things she asks me is, " How do you really know that? " when I express

an opinion.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway,there's more but to make a long story short I thought I

saw some red flags so I began to politely distance myself from her.I speak to

her politely in a neutral way and don't go out of my way to avoid her but I

don't seek out her company.Before I made the decision to do this I did speak to

her about her own being distant and she admitted that she was doing that and

said that it was because she diagreed with some executive decisions I had made.I

believed that I had made the right decisions given the circumstances I was

working with and since she wasn't in a position to impact or change those

decisions I considered her viewpoint,decided that I had done my best,and decided

not to dwell on it.She is free to do as she sees fit on the job and so I am.I

don't tell her what I think she should do and I also don't need to be told how

to do my job.

> > > >

> > > > After I adopted a politely neutral stance with her,she began to

come in to work and bluster past me,ignoring me on purpose.I have enough on my

plate and since we had already talked about it,I wasn't going to ask her again

what was wrong.The last time we had spoken it had been friendly and cheerful and

now she seemed to be angry.I swear,nothing had happened.

> > > >

> > > > It was like nada's old silent treatments and sulking.I continued

to speak nicely to her when necessary but went about my work not seeking her out

specifically to talk.This is when she began to give me these long glares across

the room or when I was speaking to someone else.I'd see her giving me these

seething looks and I ignored them.

> > > >

> > > > The other day we were going to have to stagger our lunch hours to

accomodate a project.I went over to her to ask her when she preferred to go to

lunch and she snapped at me, " Oh,so you're speaking to me now? "

> > > >

> > > > I had been " speaking " to her all morning,but only about

business.She did this in front of another co worker.I calmly said, " When wasn't I

speaking to you? " knowing I had a witness but this was probably a mistake.She

seethed, " I'll go after two " then angrily asked me, " When are you going? "

> > > >

> > > > I said calmly, " I can go at two if you want to go after two,that

would work-- "

> > > >

> > > > She started to stalk off,seething, " I'll just go at three,then... "

> > > >

> > > > I said, " Look,let's coordinate this.I asked you when you prefer

to go to lunch-- "

> > > >

> > > > She seethed, " You want to go at two,you go at two-- "

> > > >

> > > > " What's the problem? " I asked her. " I asked you a simple

question,giving you the option of when you prefer to take a break and you're

using a sarcastic tone with me and it seems to me that-- "

> > > >

> > > > " I MEANT it to be sarcastic " ,she said and stalked off.

> > > >

> > > > All I had done was ask her when she wanted to go to lunch! My

coworker was clearly taken aback by this exchange and quietly told me when she

was going to have her lunch break and asked me what was wrong with our

coworker.I shrugged and said I didn't know.

> > > >

> > > > Today I tried (a mistake I think) saying hello to this

coworker and she snapped sarcastically at me, " Oh,you're in a good mood today. "

> > > >

> > > > I haven't been in a bad mood at any rate.I said to her (another

mistake), " You haven't been saying hi to me lately and there's no reason for us

to not say hello,so-- "

> > > >

> > > > She snapped, " That is SO not true. "

> > > >

> > > > She's been blustering past me for days not even looking at me

when she comes in.All day long today I noticed her shooting death ray looks at

me,like really seething.Like she hates me.And that is the thing: she seems to

have gone from us talking to totally hating me when I just went about my work

day and didn't seek out her company.She never asked me why,just started being

hateful and glaring at me.

> > > >

> > > > Whenever I do talk to someone else,she then goes over to them

later to talk,the same person.Not because she needs to,but because I did.When

we're having a conversation in a group now,she stares through me then picks

apart my input and walks away if I try to defend my position.

> > > >

> > > > All of it is giving me a feeling of fear,a sinking nasty

feeling in the pit of my stomach.I don't usually feel afraid of people.I've been

through alot and usually I feel confident that I can take care of myself.But she

is staring at me with such hatred and it's so deliberate...she seems not at all

interested in knowing why I am putting some space between us and hasn't tried to

talk about it at all,like I did with her...only seems to despise me for it...I

think her distancing before was a control tactic and really when I spoke to her

about it I didn't feel as if we'd really communicated,only that she was

criticizing my decisions to make me doubt them.

> > > >

> > > > I know you guys aren't in this situation with me.I haven't gone

into all the details,either.But I need some shoring up here because she is

pushing all of my KO buttons...I tell myself that it is NOT ok to shoot death

glares at someone from across the office when you haven't even bothered to ask

them what's wrong..or to blow up at someone who is considerately asking you when

you prefer to go to lunch...

> > > >

> > > > Why is it that I even wonder what I did wrong? It's not like I

could say to her, " You know,on reflection because you continue to behave in a

rejecting manner after we seemed to have had a nice time together,I have decided

not to seek out your company " ...It's not like I'm going to tell her, " I'm

beginning to suspect you are a controlling,manipulative person " ...

> > > >

> > > > Telling me that I was in a " good mood " when I said hello to her

when I have been in the same mood for days while she has been glaring at me...I

have a bad feeling about this,it feels very very off.

> > > >

> > > > Any input would be appreciated! I am reflexively starting to blame

myself.I don't know if this post explained why,but thanks for listening.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, . Its good to have fellow KOs to validate one's experiences; I

appreciate yours and that of our " brothers and sisters " here at the Group.

I wanted to follow up on one point you made, which is that because of your

current situation with the crazy co-worker, you've gained an understanding of

how easy it is for people to ignore bad or even evil behavior, partly because

(A) its hard to wrap our minds around the idea that someone could actually

behave like that, ( actually confronting and challenging a difficult person is

a huge undertaking because half of what they do can usually be plausibly

excused, and © its impossible to have a rational and logical dialogue with a

person who uses denial, blame and other manipulations to squirm out of any

personal responsibility for the problem, or with a person who is truly

irrational.

Its true, its all too easy to brush bad behavior aside.

Also, as you pointed out, most people want to be forgiving and give the offender

a second or even multiple chances, even more so when the individual isn't

behaving badly all the time. How much more difficult is it to confront toxic,

evil, destructive, vindictive behavior when the individual then turns around and

at least appears to be expressing genuine remorse, and chooses to behave kindly

and even lovingly for a period of time?

That's why the Cluster B personality group is so massively difficult to even

comprehend and deal with. Personality disorder is neither fish nor fowl.

They're not legally insane, but they certainly are *not* normal: they are

damaged and incredibly damaging to others and to themselves. They have warped,

skewed, negative perceptions and attitudes, yet they can also be intelligent and

competent, and even behave in loving and friendly ways.

Here's a link to a book called " The Mask of Sanity " by Hervey Cleckley; its now

out of print but available as a download:

http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

Here is an excerpt, which includes a link to another book: Martha Stout, Ph.D.,

" The Sociopath Next Door " :

(Keep in mind that " psychopath " and " sociopath " are both earlier terms for

someone with antisocial personality disorder. Also keep in mind that antisocial

pd is part of the " Cluster B " pd group.)

" The high incidence of sociopathy in human society (4% of the population) has a

profound effect on the rest of us who must live on this planet, too, even those

of us who have not been clinically traumatized. The individuals who constitute

this 4 percent drain our relationships, our bank accounts, our accomplishments,

our self-esteem, our very peace on earth.

Yet surprisingly, many people know nothing about this disorder, or if they do,

they think only in terms of violent psychopathy - murderers, serial killers,

mass murderers - people who have conspicuously broken the law many times over,

and who, if caught, will be imprisoned, maybe even put to death by our legal

system.

We are not commonly aware of, nor do we usually identify, the larger number of

nonviolent sociopaths among us, people who often are not blatant lawbreakers,

and against whom our formal legal system provides little defense.

Most of us would not imagine any correspondence between conceiving an ethnic

genocide and, say, guiltlessly lying to one's boss about a coworker. But the

psychological correspondence is not only there; it is chilling. Simple and

profound, the link is the absence of the inner mechanism that beats up on us,

emotionally speaking, when we make a choice we view as immoral, unethical,

neglectful, or selfish.

Most of us feel mildly guilty if we eat the last piece of cake in the kitchen,

let alone what we would feel if we intentionally and methodically set about to

hurt another person.

Those who have no conscience at all are a group unto themselves, whether they be

homicidal tyrants or merely ruthless social snipers.

The presence or absence of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more

significant than intelligence, race, or even gender.

What differentiates a sociopath who lives off the labors of others from one who

occasionally robs convenience stores, or from one who is a contemporary robber

baron - or what makes the difference between an ordinary bully and a sociopathic

murderer - is nothing more than social status, drive, intellect, blood lust, or

simple opportunity.

What distinguishes all of these people from the rest of us is an utterly empty

hole in the psyche, where there should be the most evolved of all humanizing

functions. "

-Annie

> > > > >

> > > > > Thankfully I have the day off from work tomorrow...Ok,so this isn't a

post directly about nada but it's a KO questions post...I have become friendly

with a coworker to the point where we exchanged telephone numbers and were

trying to find the time to go to dinner together outside of work.We have talked

about our families,specifically our mothers,and I thought that I had met a

fellow KO.Her mother sounds like a nada and so much like mine.We've had many

other conversations about other things too and she seemed like a bright and

curious person and I was looking forward to getting to know her better outside

of work where we could really talk.

> > > > >

> > > > > Unfortunately a pattern emerged with her where we'd be having

these wide ranging interesting conversations and everything between us seemed

good,then she'd come in to work later and be distant to me.My first reaction is

to blame myself and to wonder how I blundered usually but this time I couldn't

help but notice that NOTHING had happened between the good time I thought we'd

had and her coming into work being distant.Another thing she did was to

alternate between praising me for things I did at work or things I've done in my

life and then criticizing me by suggesting in subtle ways that I wasn't seeing

certain things clearly,but it was ok because she " understands " me.I am

immediately suspicious of general praise.If it's somethinmg in particular that

I've done well,ok.But I know that I am not in a general sense so " amazing " ...And

her criticisms felt more like attempts at undermining my self confidence,like

one of the things she asks me is, " How do you really know that? " when I express

an opinion.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway,there's more but to make a long story short I thought I

saw some red flags so I began to politely distance myself from her.I speak to

her politely in a neutral way and don't go out of my way to avoid her but I

don't seek out her company.Before I made the decision to do this I did speak to

her about her own being distant and she admitted that she was doing that and

said that it was because she diagreed with some executive decisions I had made.I

believed that I had made the right decisions given the circumstances I was

working with and since she wasn't in a position to impact or change those

decisions I considered her viewpoint,decided that I had done my best,and decided

not to dwell on it.She is free to do as she sees fit on the job and so I am.I

don't tell her what I think she should do and I also don't need to be told how

to do my job.

> > > > >

> > > > > After I adopted a politely neutral stance with her,she began to

come in to work and bluster past me,ignoring me on purpose.I have enough on my

plate and since we had already talked about it,I wasn't going to ask her again

what was wrong.The last time we had spoken it had been friendly and cheerful and

now she seemed to be angry.I swear,nothing had happened.

> > > > >

> > > > > It was like nada's old silent treatments and sulking.I continued

to speak nicely to her when necessary but went about my work not seeking her out

specifically to talk.This is when she began to give me these long glares across

the room or when I was speaking to someone else.I'd see her giving me these

seething looks and I ignored them.

> > > > >

> > > > > The other day we were going to have to stagger our lunch hours

to accomodate a project.I went over to her to ask her when she preferred to go

to lunch and she snapped at me, " Oh,so you're speaking to me now? "

> > > > >

> > > > > I had been " speaking " to her all morning,but only about

business.She did this in front of another co worker.I calmly said, " When wasn't I

speaking to you? " knowing I had a witness but this was probably a mistake.She

seethed, " I'll go after two " then angrily asked me, " When are you going? "

> > > > >

> > > > > I said calmly, " I can go at two if you want to go after two,that

would work-- "

> > > > >

> > > > > She started to stalk off,seething, " I'll just go at

three,then... "

> > > > >

> > > > > I said, " Look,let's coordinate this.I asked you when you prefer

to go to lunch-- "

> > > > >

> > > > > She seethed, " You want to go at two,you go at two-- "

> > > > >

> > > > > " What's the problem? " I asked her. " I asked you a simple

question,giving you the option of when you prefer to take a break and you're

using a sarcastic tone with me and it seems to me that-- "

> > > > >

> > > > > " I MEANT it to be sarcastic " ,she said and stalked off.

> > > > >

> > > > > All I had done was ask her when she wanted to go to lunch!

My coworker was clearly taken aback by this exchange and quietly told me when

she was going to have her lunch break and asked me what was wrong with our

coworker.I shrugged and said I didn't know.

> > > > >

> > > > > Today I tried (a mistake I think) saying hello to this

coworker and she snapped sarcastically at me, " Oh,you're in a good mood today. "

> > > > >

> > > > > I haven't been in a bad mood at any rate.I said to her

(another mistake), " You haven't been saying hi to me lately and there's no reason

for us to not say hello,so-- "

> > > > >

> > > > > She snapped, " That is SO not true. "

> > > > >

> > > > > She's been blustering past me for days not even looking at me

when she comes in.All day long today I noticed her shooting death ray looks at

me,like really seething.Like she hates me.And that is the thing: she seems to

have gone from us talking to totally hating me when I just went about my work

day and didn't seek out her company.She never asked me why,just started being

hateful and glaring at me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Whenever I do talk to someone else,she then goes over to them

later to talk,the same person.Not because she needs to,but because I did.When

we're having a conversation in a group now,she stares through me then picks

apart my input and walks away if I try to defend my position.

> > > > >

> > > > > All of it is giving me a feeling of fear,a sinking nasty

feeling in the pit of my stomach.I don't usually feel afraid of people.I've been

through alot and usually I feel confident that I can take care of myself.But she

is staring at me with such hatred and it's so deliberate...she seems not at all

interested in knowing why I am putting some space between us and hasn't tried to

talk about it at all,like I did with her...only seems to despise me for it...I

think her distancing before was a control tactic and really when I spoke to her

about it I didn't feel as if we'd really communicated,only that she was

criticizing my decisions to make me doubt them.

> > > > >

> > > > > I know you guys aren't in this situation with me.I haven't

gone into all the details,either.But I need some shoring up here because she is

pushing all of my KO buttons...I tell myself that it is NOT ok to shoot death

glares at someone from across the office when you haven't even bothered to ask

them what's wrong..or to blow up at someone who is considerately asking you when

you prefer to go to lunch...

> > > > >

> > > > > Why is it that I even wonder what I did wrong? It's not like I

could say to her, " You know,on reflection because you continue to behave in a

rejecting manner after we seemed to have had a nice time together,I have decided

not to seek out your company " ...It's not like I'm going to tell her, " I'm

beginning to suspect you are a controlling,manipulative person " ...

> > > > >

> > > > > Telling me that I was in a " good mood " when I said hello to her

when I have been in the same mood for days while she has been glaring at me...I

have a bad feeling about this,it feels very very off.

> > > > >

> > > > > Any input would be appreciated! I am reflexively starting to

blame myself.I don't know if this post explained why,but thanks for listening.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Here are some options for dealing with a crazy at work:

1) Ask your HR department to intervene. Explain that she is creating a hostile

environment. What is your companies' policy on harrassment?

2) I'm not sure if you are peers or if she is your supbordinate, but if she is

your subordinate then I would refer her to whatever company policies you have on

harassament or attitude at work and explain that you won't tolerate her passive

agressive behavior. Redefine that your purpose here is work and that while you

don't have to like each other, you expect to be treated civily as you will treat

her. Remind her of this once and tell her if her behavior continue you are

prepared to take it to the next level. She is trying to bully you and you have

to fight a bully with a firm hand.

3) If she is your colleague, have her manager sit in on the conversation. In

front of the manager speak of your concern that her behavior toward you is

impacting the work environment and that your desire is for both of you to put

your differences away and have a collaborative relationship. Again, you don't

have to like each other, but you do have to work together.

My guess is that the others there know her for who she is. You have to stand up

to a bully or they will run over you. Most of them are insecure little cry

babies who pretend they are important and misuse their power over others. Call

her on it.

Most importantly, don't give up your power to her intimidation tactics. If you

put her in her place using the corporate policy as a bat, she sit down and shut

up and will likely focus on somebody else. Of course that is another problem

all together, but hopefully not yours.

Best of luck....work crazies are certainly a challenge and can trigger all kinds

of FOG.

Jaye

rectly about nada but it's a KO questions post...I have become friendly with a

coworker to the point where we exchanged telephone numbers and were trying to

find the time to go to dinner together outside of work.We have talked about our

families,specifically our mothers,and I thought that I had met a fellow KO.Her

mother sounds like a nada and so much like mine.We've had many other

conversations about other things too and she seemed like a bright and curious

person and I was looking forward to getting to know her better outside of work

where we could really talk.

>

> Unfortunately a pattern emerged with her where we'd be having these wide

ranging interesting conversations and everything between us seemed good,then

she'd come in to work later and be distant to me.My first reaction is to blame

myself and to wonder how I blundered usually but this time I couldn't help but

notice that NOTHING had happened between the good time I thought we'd had and

her coming into work being distant.Another thing she did was to alternate

between praising me for things I did at work or things I've done in my life and

then criticizing me by suggesting in subtle ways that I wasn't seeing certain

things clearly,but it was ok because she " understands " me.I am immediately

suspicious of general praise.If it's somethinmg in particular that I've done

well,ok.But I know that I am not in a general sense so " amazing " ...And her

criticisms felt more like attempts at undermining my self confidence,like one of

the things she asks me is, " How do you really know that? " when I express an

opinion.

>

> Anyway,there's more but to make a long story short I thought I saw

some red flags so I began to politely distance myself from her.I speak to her

politely in a neutral way and don't go out of my way to avoid her but I don't

seek out her company.Before I made the decision to do this I did speak to her

about her own being distant and she admitted that she was doing that and said

that it was because she diagreed with some executive decisions I had made.I

believed that I had made the right decisions given the circumstances I was

working with and since she wasn't in a position to impact or change those

decisions I considered her viewpoint,decided that I had done my best,and decided

not to dwell on it.She is free to do as she sees fit on the job and so I am.I

don't tell her what I think she should do and I also don't need to be told how

to do my job.

>

> After I adopted a politely neutral stance with her,she began to come in

to work and bluster past me,ignoring me on purpose.I have enough on my plate and

since we had already talked about it,I wasn't going to ask her again what was

wrong.The last time we had spoken it had been friendly and cheerful and now she

seemed to be angry.I swear,nothing had happened.

>

> It was like nada's old silent treatments and sulking.I continued to

speak nicely to her when necessary but went about my work not seeking her out

specifically to talk.This is when she began to give me these long glares across

the room or when I was speaking to someone else.I'd see her giving me these

seething looks and I ignored them.

>

> The other day we were going to have to stagger our lunch hours to

accomodate a project.I went over to her to ask her when she preferred to go to

lunch and she snapped at me, " Oh,so you're speaking to me now? "

>

> I had been " speaking " to her all morning,but only about business.She

did this in front of another co worker.I calmly said, " When wasn't I speaking to

you? " knowing I had a witness but this was probably a mistake.She seethed, " I'll

go after two " then angrily asked me, " When are you going? "

>

> I said calmly, " I can go at two if you want to go after two,that would

work-- "

>

> She started to stalk off,seething, " I'll just go at three,then... "

>

> I said, " Look,let's coordinate this.I asked you when you prefer to go

to lunch-- "

>

> She seethed, " You want to go at two,you go at two-- "

>

> " What's the problem? " I asked her. " I asked you a simple

question,giving you the option of when you prefer to take a break and you're

using a sarcastic tone with me and it seems to me that-- "

>

> " I MEANT it to be sarcastic " ,she said and stalked off.

>

> All I had done was ask her when she wanted to go to lunch! My

coworker was clearly taken aback by this exchange and quietly told me when she

was going to have her lunch break and asked me what was wrong with our

coworker.I shrugged and said I didn't know.

>

> Today I tried (a mistake I think) saying hello to this coworker and

she snapped sarcastically at me, " Oh,you're in a good mood today. "

>

> I haven't been in a bad mood at any rate.I said to her (another

mistake), " You haven't been saying hi to me lately and there's no reason for us

to not say hello,so-- "

>

> She snapped, " That is SO not true. "

>

> She's been blustering past me for days not even looking at me when

she comes in.All day long today I noticed her shooting death ray looks at

me,like really seething.Like she hates me.And that is the thing: she seems to

have gone from us talking to totally hating me when I just went about my work

day and didn't seek out her company.She never asked me why,just started being

hateful and glaring at me.

>

> Whenever I do talk to someone else,she then goes over to them later to

talk,the same person.Not because she needs to,but because I did.When we're

having a conversation in a group now,she stares through me then picks apart my

input and walks away if I try to defend my position.

>

> All of it is giving me a feeling of fear,a sinking nasty feeling in

the pit of my stomach.I don't usually feel afraid of people.I've been through

alot and usually I feel confident that I can take care of myself.But she is

staring at me with such hatred and it's so deliberate...she seems not at all

interested in knowing why I am putting some space between us and hasn't tried to

talk about it at all,like I did with her...only seems to despise me for it...I

think her distancing before was a control tactic and really when I spoke to her

about it I didn't feel as if we'd really communicated,only that she was

criticizing my decisions to make me doubt them.

>

> I know you guys aren't in this situation with me.I haven't gone into

all the details,either.But I need some shoring up here because she is pushing

all of my KO buttons...I tell myself that it is NOT ok to shoot death glares at

someone from across the office when you haven't even bothered to ask them what's

wrong..or to blow up at someone who is considerately asking you when you prefer

to go to lunch...

>

> Why is it that I even wonder what I did wrong? It's not like I could say

to her, " You know,on reflection because you continue to behave in a rejecting

manner after we seemed to have had a nice time together,I have decided not to

seek out your company " ...It's not like I'm going to tell her, " I'm beginning to

suspect you are a controlling,manipulative person " ...

>

> Telling me that I was in a " good mood " when I said hello to her when I

have been in the same mood for days while she has been glaring at me...I have a

bad feeling about this,it feels very very off.

>

> Any input would be appreciated! I am reflexively starting to blame

myself.I don't know if this post explained why,but thanks for listening.

>

>

>