Re: Feel like I have Alzheimer's..

May 30, 2005

Hi, Barry... nope, you're not the only guy.. but there aren't a whole lot of you.... I have a lot of respect for you guys... it's got to be hard to join up with a bunch of females to discuss this stuff... but we won't bite... and we won't giggle at your 'boy' problems any more than you giggle at our 'girl' problems... cuz, sad to say.. thyroid dysfunction messes up the sex hormones and causes problems so it's stuff that we have to talk about too....

Now.. your questions... Alzheimer's like symptoms, short term memory problems... we refer to them as brain farts and brain fog...a very common symptom of low thyroid function and poor conversion.

We'll run through some basics, first... Hypothyroidism is not a diagnosis, it's a condition... your diagnosis would be what is causing you to be hypothyroid... There are far far too many docs that don't understand that... it's not the fact that you are hypo it's WHY and then treating appropriately for that cause.

On top of that... the dose that they doc put you on is bordering on abuse. It's too low a dose.. but we'll get into that more later.

You're right.. it takes four to six weeks for the body to realize the affects of the addition of T4 (Levothroid is a synthetic T4 hormone, T4 is the thyroid storage hormone). With a dose that low your body will most likely see that there is a small increase in hormone level and drop production which will leave you with the same, or less, hormone that you had before taking the Levothroid)

Some things that you should know, understand.....

You must take synthetic hormone on an empty stomach (four hours after eating or one hour before) It requires stomach acid to remove the sodium molecule used in it's manufacture.

You should avoid Goitrogens such as soy products, high fructose corn syrup, vegies in the cabbage family (and some other foods too), they either bind with thyroid hormone or prevent proper hormone conversion.

You should be taking Selenium, a mineral that used to be plentiful in our foods but isn't any more due to commercial farming practices and chemical fertilizers. You can safely take up to 400 mcg per day to aid your body in converting T4 (thyroid storage hormone) into the active thyroid hormones that your body needs to function. You can read more about the hormones, tests and choices of meds at our website, when you have some time to do some reading (www.thyrophoenix.com/thyroid_101.htm ) If you take over 600 mcg per day for more than 2 weeks, it can become toxic and fatal. So check your multi-vitamins to see what's there before adding more.

Eating small, frequent meals keeps your energy levels up and increases the efficiency of hormone conversion... right now you are dealing with memory issues.. that involves hormone conversion.. so you'll want to make sure that you do what you can to help with that....

It's sounds confusing at first... but you'll get the hang of it...

For right now.. do you have copies of your labs to share with us so that we can see what you've been tested for and what your numbers look like? Oh... include the lab's ranges, they are using in parenthesis next to the results....

Don't worry if you forget something, or don't understand and have to ask again... most of us have been there and we understand how frustrating it is... so just ask again....

Topper ()

On Mon, 30 May 2005 06:25:44 -0000 "Barry " writes:

Hello all,I just joined this group..hoping to get some info.. Like I stated inthe subject heading I feel like I have alzheimer's..poor mental focusand horrible short-term memory. I was having these symptoms alongwith overall sluggishness for the last couple months..went to thedoc's and was diagnosed with this hypothyroidism. I was put on 12.5mcg levothroid a day..breaking a .025mg pill in half..to start outwith, but decided to take twice that since it doesn't seem to be doingmuch of anything..(and .025 mg is the lowest dose of the pill tobegin with) ..been taking it for two weeks and no improvementmentally, although I understand it supposedly takes about a monthbefore any real improvement. Anybody else experience like there losingtheir mental faculties from this? ..and if so, had any improvementfrom taking any supplement? P.S. Am I the only guy in this group?..I understand this condition ismore common with women then men. Oh lucky me.Barry

May 30, 2005

>

> Hello all,

>

> I just joined this group..hoping to get some info.. Like I stated in

> the subject heading I feel like I have alzheimer's..poor mental focus

> and horrible short-term memory. ....... Anybody else experience

like there losing

> their mental faculties from this? ..and if so, had any improvement

> from taking any supplement?

>

Barry,

I have horrible short term memory and difficulty concentrating. I have

always attributed mine to my fibromyalgia which they call " Fibrofog. "

Wouldn't it be wonderful if this medicine gave me back my brain? I

have only been on for 11 days, so I have a while to go yet. I'm sure

my kids and hubby (whatever their names are) would appreciate some

improvement.

Britt

May 30, 2005

,

Thank you for the insightful posting on losing our minds. Like I

said in previous posting, I too have terrible memory problems. I

can't come up with words like " Spoon " " child " " Dog " etc. I have

driven past my own house COUNTLESS times. I have paid bills twice,

or have forgotten to pay them at all thinking that I did. I've put

butter in the cabinet and FROZEN pizzas in the oven (instead of the

freezer.) My children learned early how to play the " Well you told

me I could...Don't you remember " card like pro's. But now I make

them clear everything through my hubby so they can't use that one

anymore. I feel like a child sometimes. I have to be reminded to

take my pills (even though I have them in a container marked with

days and times to take them.) My father has taken over paying my

bills because I have them so messed up. I have to write EVERYTHING

down. And to anyone here who still suffers from this, do this:

Get a dry erase board with the calendar written on it. (I got mine

at Shopko for about $15.00.) It's large enough to write in things

that have to be done on certain days and has extra room to write

misc. stuff on. Also has a cork part for pin up messages. We call it

my BRAIN BOARD. It's kind of scary seeing what the inside of my

brain looks like all written out! But if the kids need something on

a certain day, they tell me, then they put it on the Brainboard.

That way I can look at it and know what is going on. It also helps

to have it for journaling illness. (Doc appts. etc.)

Anyhoo it has helped immensely. Now if I could just remember to LOOK

at it everyday....

Britt

May 30, 2005

Thanks ,

I'll get hold of some selenium and go from there with

your other suggestions/requests. Unfortunately I'm

with a HMO so I'm going to have to take all the

initiative to get proper treatment/diagnosis. I set up

a appointment a couple weeks ago that's this Friday to

find out what's causing this hypo...something they

should have initiated..but didn't. They just wanted

for me to take this low dose of levothroid for 6 weeks

and then go back to the lab and get re-tested.

Barry

--- topper2@... wrote:

> Hi, Barry... nope, you're not the only guy.. but

> there aren't a whole lot

> of you.... I have a lot of respect for you guys...

> it's got to be hard to

> join up with a bunch of females to discuss this

> stuff... but we won't

> bite... and we won't giggle at your 'boy' problems

> any more than you

> giggle at our 'girl' problems... cuz, sad to say..

> thyroid dysfunction

> messes up the sex hormones and causes problems so

> it's stuff that we have

> to talk about too....

>

> Now.. your questions... Alzheimer's like symptoms,

> short term memory

> problems... we refer to them as brain farts and

> brain fog...a very common

> symptom of low thyroid function and poor conversion.

>

> We'll run through some basics, first...

> Hypothyroidism is not a

> diagnosis, it's a condition... your diagnosis would

> be what is causing

> you to be hypothyroid... There are far far too many

> docs that don't

> understand that... it's not the fact that you are

> hypo it's WHY and then

> treating appropriately for that cause.

>

> On top of that... the dose that they doc put you on

> is bordering on

> abuse. It's too low a dose.. but we'll get into that

> more later.

>

> You're right.. it takes four to six weeks for the

> body to realize the

> affects of the addition of T4 (Levothroid is a

> synthetic T4 hormone, T4

> is the thyroid storage hormone). With a dose that

> low your body will most

> likely see that there is a small increase in hormone

> level and drop

> production which will leave you with the same, or

> less, hormone that you

> had before taking the Levothroid)

>

> Some things that you should know, understand.....

>

> You must take synthetic hormone on an empty stomach

> (four hours after

> eating or one hour before) It requires stomach acid

> to remove the sodium

> molecule used in it's manufacture.

>

> You should avoid Goitrogens such as soy products,

> high fructose corn

> syrup, vegies in the cabbage family (and some other

> foods too), they

> either bind with thyroid hormone or prevent proper

> hormone conversion.

>

> You should be taking Selenium, a mineral that used

> to be plentiful in our

> foods but isn't any more due to commercial farming

> practices and chemical

> fertilizers. You can safely take up to 400 mcg per

> day to aid your body

> in converting T4 (thyroid storage hormone) into the

> active thyroid

> hormones that your body needs to function. You can

> read more about the

> hormones, tests and choices of meds at our website,

> when you have some

> time to do some reading

> (www.thyrophoenix.com/thyroid_101.htm ) If you

> take over 600 mcg per day for more than 2 weeks, it

> can become toxic and

> fatal. So check your multi-vitamins to see what's

> there before adding

> more.

>

> Eating small, frequent meals keeps your energy

> levels up and increases

> the efficiency of hormone conversion... right now

> you are dealing with

> memory issues.. that involves hormone conversion..

> so you'll want to make

> sure that you do what you can to help with that....

>

> It's sounds confusing at first... but you'll get the

> hang of it...

>

> For right now.. do you have copies of your labs to

> share with us so that

> we can see what you've been tested for and what your

> numbers look like?

> Oh... include the lab's ranges, they are using in

> parenthesis next to the

> results....

>

> Don't worry if you forget something, or don't

> understand and have to ask

> again... most of us have been there and we

> understand how frustrating it

> is... so just ask again....

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Mon, 30 May 2005 06:25:44 -0000 " Barry "

>

> writes:

>

> Hello all,

>

> I just joined this group..hoping to get some info..

> Like I stated in

> the subject heading I feel like I have

> alzheimer's..poor mental focus

> and horrible short-term memory. I was having these

> symptoms along

> with overall sluggishness for the last couple

> months..went to the

> doc's and was diagnosed with this hypothyroidism. I

> was put on 12.5

> mcg levothroid a day..breaking a .025mg pill in

> half..to start out

> with, but decided to take twice that since it

> doesn't seem to be doing

> much of anything..(and .025 mg is the lowest dose

> of the pill to

> begin with) ..been taking it for two weeks and no

> improvement

> mentally, although I understand it supposedly takes

> about a month

> before any real improvement. Anybody else experience

> like there losing

> their mental faculties from this? ..and if so, had

> any improvement

> from taking any supplement?

>

> P.S. Am I the only guy in this group?..I understand

> this condition is

> more common with women then men. Oh lucky me.

>

> Barry

__________________________________________________

May 30, 2005

Getting the next set of tests at six weeks is good.. but the dose is outrageously low..... You're gonna have to be firm with getting the right testing....

TSH, Free T4, Free T3, thyroid antibodies, ferritin

These are the ABSOLUTE minimum that should be tested, if they say just TSH... stomp your feet and tell them I'm gonna come bash heads!!!

....sorry... this just gets me sooooooo mad....

Keep us posted... we're your cheering section here you know!! Urging you to go for a home run and not just a walk to first!

Topper ()

On Mon, 30 May 2005 11:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Barry Greenwell writes:

Thanks ,I'll get hold of some selenium and go from there withyour other suggestions/requests. Unfortunately I'mwith a HMO so I'm going to have to take all theinitiative to get proper treatment/diagnosis. I set upa appointment a couple weeks ago that's this Friday tofind out what's causing this hypo...something theyshould have initiated..but didn't. They just wantedfor me to take this low dose of levothroid for 6 weeksand then go back to the lab and get re-tested.Barry

May 30, 2005

> Getting the next set of tests at six weeks is good.. but the dose is

> outrageously low..... You're gonna have to be firm with getting the

> right testing....

>

> TSH, Free T4, Free T3, thyroid antibodies, ferritin

>

> These are the ABSOLUTE minimum that should be tested,

,

Is this what I should ask my doctor to test as well? Are there

additional tests that would be helpful? I might as well do 'em all

since I finally breached that all important out of pocket limit on my

insurance this year!

Thanks for the advice!

Britt

May 30, 2005

This last week when I told my endocrinologist to do the autoimmune test

and the adrenal gland test. She asked me why do I need to do all them.

I told her because I WANT TO KNOW.. what caused my thyroid problem in

the first place.

She blankly bent over chair . looked me straight in the eye and said..

Does it really matter what caused it?

I was speechless. Then responded, well of course it matters.

Deana

Barry Greenwell wrote:

> Thanks ,

>

> I'll get hold of some selenium and go from there with

> your other suggestions/requests. Unfortunately I'm

> with a HMO so I'm going to have to take all the

> initiative to get proper treatment/diagnosis. I set up

> a appointment a couple weeks ago that's this Friday to

> find out what's causing this hypo...something they

> should have initiated..but didn't. They just wanted

> for me to take this low dose of levothroid for 6 weeks

> and then go back to the lab and get re-tested.

>

> Barry

>

May 30, 2005

My doctors have always only tested for tsh. Even the " specialist " . I

had to do research on my own to make them do some tests and now its

fighting tooth and nail to get them to do them. She said she wont do

any of the thyroid tests untill my body is back into the groove with the

thyroid medicane (I had weaned myself off three weeks ago - back on for

a week of that now almost two weeks)

However they did do the Adrenal test and the autoimmune ONLY because I

forced them too. And they tried to discourage me by saying. It takes

an hour just so you know. What is their deal???

Deana

topper2@... wrote:

> Getting the next set of tests at six weeks is good.. but the dose is

> outrageously low..... You're gonna have to be firm with getting the

> right testing....

>

> TSH, Free T4, Free T3, thyroid antibodies, ferritin

>

> These are the ABSOLUTE minimum that should be tested, if they say just

> TSH... stomp your feet and tell them I'm gonna come bash heads!!!

May 30, 2005

There are others that are good to have... is the one that is on top of that list.... I do know that getting a bone density scan is a good idea... as a base line so that when things start happening (which is often the case for folks on T4 only synthetics) you have something to compare to....

Checking the Bs.... Ferritin (storage iron) is more important the blood iron.... If I were you.. I'd go for everything I could get my hands on.. so that you know where you stand now.... and what you can do here and there to boost your body's nutrition....

My humble opinion, or course....

Getting the TSH, Frees are mandatory for anyone on thyroid replacement.... there are other tests that are needed in addition to that for some folks with other factors....

That said... I am a FIRM believer in also monitoring symptoms and charting basals..... you can take these simple tests daily and see exactly how your body is reacting as each day goes by... you can see changes long before you can get an appointment and go in for labs to get an adjustment....

Using the labs, symptom observation, and basals (waking temp, resting pulse, resting respiration) gives the best picture and keeps you on top of things.... the problem is that toooooo many docs don't understand any more than keeping the numbers 'in normal range'. Unfortunately.. 'normal range' is only a general guide... it's where an individual falls inside that range that counts...

We should run through this all again, for the new folks, gang.... In the mean time... you can read a bit more about it at our web site..... ( I just realized that I need to update that, it's a bit dated as far as my references to myself (I go by the handle ThyroGeek on the website).... Guess I know what I need to be working on soon!!! There is a bunch of other stuff that I need to work on there too) www.thyrophoenix.com/self_monitor.htm

Topper ()

On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:30:26 -0000 "Brittey" writes:

> Getting the next set of tests at six weeks is good.. but the dose is> outrageously low..... You're gonna have to be firm with getting the> right testing....> > TSH, Free T4, Free T3, thyroid antibodies, ferritin > > These are the ABSOLUTE minimum that should be tested, ,Is this what I should ask my doctor to test as well? Are there additional tests that would be helpful? I might as well do 'em all since I finally breached that all important out of pocket limit on my insurance this year!Thanks for the advice!Britt

May 30, 2005

Not only does it matter so that you know why... but it matters in how you treat this... do you simply need replacement, do you need to suppress TSH, do you need to pay special attention to conversion? Do you need adrenal support? Do you need to beat people around you to get them to reduce your stress level by leaving you alone? All these things matter and you can't address any of it until you know what the cause is, how your body is responding to what you are doing and what you need to pay special attention to during this healing AND maintenance process....

Does she try to find out what causes a rash on a baby or just give a cream and hope it's the right one?

Well... geee, maybe she does.....

What a JERK!!!!!

Good for you, Deana, not backing down.!

Topper ()

On Mon, 30 May 2005 15:52:13 -0500 Deana Brown writes:

This last week when I told my endocrinologist to do the autoimmune test and the adrenal gland test. She asked me why do I need to do all them. I told her because I WANT TO KNOW.. what caused my thyroid problem in the first place. She blankly bent over chair . looked me straight in the eye and said.. Does it really matter what caused it? I was speechless. Then responded, well of course it matters.Deana

May 30, 2005

My doc sent me the next slip that I am to take to the lab the next time I have blood drawn and I notice he's only checked off the TSH...I'm thinking of calling and telling him I want the other tests as well, but am imagining the conversation in my head, and him askimg me WHY do I think I need all these additional tests? And I wouldn't know what to say? LOL If someone has a minute can y'all explain the who what where's and when's on these tests? I'd sure appreciate it.

I'm going on about 3 weeks of 125 mcg synthroid, and some days I feel like I can notice some small improvements in my energy level, but other days, I still wish I could sleeeep sleep sleep! My right heel feels alot better than it used to but my left heel is still really painful. I think i've lost a few lbs even though I havent really changed my eating habits, so I guess that's a good thing hehe. I guess I feel a little let down! I was expecting to wake up one day feeling like a new woman and so far it just hasn't happened...

AylaDeana Brown wrote:

My doctors have always only tested for tsh. Even the "specialist" . I had to do research on my own to make them do some tests and now its fighting tooth and nail to get them to do them. She said she wont do any of the thyroid tests untill my body is back into the groove with the thyroid medicane (I had weaned myself off three weeks ago - back on for a week of that now almost two weeks) However they did do the Adrenal test and the autoimmune ONLY because I forced them too. And they tried to discourage me by saying. It takes an hour just so you know. What is their deal???Deanatopper2@... wrote:> Getting the next set of tests at six weeks is good.. but the dose is > outrageously low..... You're gonna have to be firm with getting the > right

testing....> > TSH, Free T4, Free T3, thyroid antibodies, ferritin > > These are the ABSOLUTE minimum that should be tested, if they say just > TSH... stomp your feet and tell them I'm gonna come bash heads!!! __________________________________________________

May 30, 2005

How do you know if you are 'in the groove' if you only take TSH?

Synthetic T4 tends to falsely suppress TSH, so you need to know the level of the Free T4 to know if you are taking enough, and you need to know the level of the T3 to see if you are converting adequately.... and.. if you have antibodies, their just being there also screws the test results.... that's why you use the labs (the correct labs) and how the levels fall in their ranges AND relate to each other AND symptoms AND basals...

I've done better in less than three years using ONLY symptoms and basals than I did with a bunch of docs taking tests and prescribing synthetics for over ten years.... The docs treatment program had me needing crutches... my treatment program has me off crutches....

and the truly sad sad sad part? When I finally got my labs done in Februrary.. after gobs of improvement... do you know what those labs showed? The my dosage was still too low.... Now, if I had this much improvement and got this much better in just that short amount of time and had numbers that were still that low... how gosh awful bad would my numbers have been if the jerky bunch of docs had been testing me????

That just makes my blood run cold... how bad a job did they ALL do with me???

I had one doc that made an error and when I called him on it he said that I was a 'smart ass' and hung up on me. The error? He got my lab results and said that I needed to increase my dosage to 200 mcg. Doesn't sound bad, except I was already taking 200 mcg.... so if I needed and increase that meant I had to go up from there.... but no.. I was a 'smart ass' had the phone hung up in my ear and kept at the same dose.

Another doc would only write 30 day prescriptions. He said that my being out of a job, without insurance or money to come in was no excuse to go without meds. He said that I was too irresponsible to be allowed to go for more than 30 days without coming back in to see him. He raked my new insurance good.....

His partner, in the very same clinic, saw me for the bad foot. He said that I'd injured it because I was FAT. He never talked with his partner, he never questioned my thyroid dose, or other symptoms... I was FAT from too low a thyroid dose. The Plantar Faciitis that he'd diagnosed me with was ANOTHER symptom of my thyroid dose having been too low for YEARS... and he gave me a little plastic cup to put in my shoe and a note to give to my boss that said I had to have sit down jobs for the next two weeks.. I was on crutches for YEARS from something that had nothing to do with my size at all... it was because of the thyroid dosage still being too low... which is also why I was fat.......

The PF in my foot... the permanent injury that I was told, by my doc, would be a lifelong affliction..... ready... are you ready? is GONE in just a few months after starting on natural thyroid... how SAD is that?????

We have to watch our for ourselves.. we have to be educated about our conditions and how it affects us as individuals... cuz one thing that is GLARINGLY apparent to me in the years I've been involved with this group and others... is that we are not all affected in exactly the same way and that a good many docs care more about golf and coffee breaks than 'whinny women that sit on their butts eating chocolates and making up excuses to be sick'.

I'm not whinny.. well.. not THAT way... and I don't make up excuses.. and this is NOT in my head... and if I have NO thyroid because they killed it... how can this be my imagination in the first place?????

Topper () * discretely sliding soap box into corner, so it's ready for the next person*

On Mon, 30 May 2005 15:54:58 -0500 Deana Brown writes:

My doctors have always only tested for tsh. Even the "specialist" . I had to do research on my own to make them do some tests and now its fighting tooth and nail to get them to do them. She said she wont do any of the thyroid tests untill my body is back into the groove with the thyroid medicane (I had weaned myself off three weeks ago - back on for a week of that now almost two weeks) However they did do the Adrenal test and the autoimmune ONLY because I forced them too. And they tried to discourage me by saying. It takes an hour just so you know. What is their deal???Deana

May 30, 2005

Tell him that you'd like to know how well your body is handling the T4 and check your conversion rate... the only way to do that is to check both Free T4 and Free T3. Say that you want to keep on top of this now so that things don't get more complicated later... If he's okay with that... take the next step and say that you'd also like to get a base line on your bone density and ferritin levels so there is a reference point if needed in the future.

Make sure that you get copies of the labs, too.. that goes for everyone... don't settle for being told that you are 'in normal range' or that the numbers are good enough to not be concerned about.. in the US it's the law that requires that they give you copies.. they do have a right to charge a copy fee... but they are yours.....

We can help you to understand the numbers, if you want to post them... again.. that goes for everyone.... just show us the values and the lab's ranges... and we'll let you know what those numbers are telling about how your body is using the hormone you are getting.....

..... too many docs have never been trained to know that it's not just being in the ranges, but where you fall in the ranges that tells the story... AND that you need to know if your body is adequately converting... if it's not... you need to either add synthetic T3 to the T4 that you are taking.... or add Armour (natural thyroid) or switch to natural all together.....

To just get close.. or just be 'in normal range' can still leave you horribly deficient in the hormone that your body needs for you to be healthy.... and to have a life....

I'm thinking its a safe bet to say that if given a choice, everyone here would prefer to being alive and living life.. and not just simply existing and 'not dead yet'....

Topper ()

On Mon, 30 May 2005 14:36:19 -0700 (PDT) ayla allan writes:

My doc sent me the next slip that I am to take to the lab the next time I have blood drawn and I notice he's only checked off the TSH...I'm thinking of calling and telling him I want the other tests as well, but am imagining the conversation in my head, and him askimg me WHY do I think I need all these additional tests? And I wouldn't know what to say? LOL If someone has a minute can y'all explain the who what where's and when's on these tests? I'd sure appreciate it.

I'm going on about 3 weeks of 125 mcg synthroid, and some days I feel like I can notice some small improvements in my energy level, but other days, I still wish I could sleeeep sleep sleep! My right heel feels alot better than it used to but my left heel is still really painful. I think i've lost a few lbs even though I havent really changed my eating habits, so I guess that's a good thing hehe. I guess I feel a little let down! I was expecting to wake up one day feeling like a new woman and so far it just hasn't happened...

Ayla

May 30, 2005

Thank you! I am saving this email and am calling him Monday. Also, he didn't want me to go back for more blood works until I am 8 weeks on the meds, is that normal? I guess a couple of weeks isn't going to make any monumental difference, but I am so very anxious to get on with this and see a change for the better.

Thanks again. I've been spending alot of time lurking here and reading up, but not alot of posting. I feel I have so much to learn it's crazy!

Aylatopper2@... wrote:

Tell him that you'd like to know how well your body is handling the T4 and check your conversion rate... the only way to do that is to check both Free T4 and Free T3. Say that you want to keep on top of this now so that things don't get more complicated later... If he's okay with that... take the next step and say that you'd also like to get a base line on your bone density and ferritin levels so there is a reference point if needed in the future.

Make sure that you get copies of the labs, too.. that goes for everyone... don't settle for being told that you are 'in normal range' or that the numbers are good enough to not be concerned about.. in the US it's the law that requires that they give you copies.. they do have a right to charge a copy fee... but they are yours.....

We can help you to understand the numbers, if you want to post them... again.. that goes for everyone.... just show us the values and the lab's ranges... and we'll let you know what those numbers are telling about how your body is using the hormone you are getting.....

..... too many docs have never been trained to know that it's not just being in the ranges, but where you fall in the ranges that tells the story... AND that you need to know if your body is adequately converting... if it's not... you need to either add synthetic T3 to the T4 that you are taking.... or add Armour (natural thyroid) or switch to natural all together.....

To just get close.. or just be 'in normal range' can still leave you horribly deficient in the hormone that your body needs for you to be healthy.... and to have a life....

I'm thinking its a safe bet to say that if given a choice, everyone here would prefer to being alive and living life.. and not just simply existing and 'not dead yet'....

Topper ()

On Mon, 30 May 2005 14:36:19 -0700 (PDT) ayla allan writes:

My doc sent me the next slip that I am to take to the lab the next time I have blood drawn and I notice he's only checked off the TSH...I'm thinking of calling and telling him I want the other tests as well, but am imagining the conversation in my head, and him askimg me WHY do I think I need all these additional tests? And I wouldn't know what to say? LOL If someone has a minute can y'all explain the who what where's and when's on these tests? I'd sure appreciate it.

I'm going on about 3 weeks of 125 mcg synthroid, and some days I feel like I can notice some small improvements in my energy level, but other days, I still wish I could sleeeep sleep sleep! My right heel feels alot better than it used to but my left heel is still really painful. I think i've lost a few lbs even though I havent really changed my eating habits, so I guess that's a good thing hehe. I guess I feel a little let down! I was expecting to wake up one day feeling like a new woman and so far it just hasn't happened...

Ayla__________________________________________________

May 30, 2005

4 to 6 weeks is the average time for the body to fully adjust to and realize the addition of thyroid hormone... waiting till 8 I dont' think would upset me.... having it done at 3 or 'come back next year' that would bother me....

Reminder.. for EVERYONE... don't take your meds the morning that your blood is drawn.. the test will show the levels of what you have taken and not what is accumulated... I hope that makes sense... you want to see what has built up in your blood... not what is in your blood from what you've just taken....

So... for those on synthetics that dose in the morning.... don't take it until after the blood draw.. everyone else... dont' take anything for at LEAST 12 hours before the blood draw...

Topper () *who sometimes just posts stuff as it falls out of my brain... *

On Mon, 30 May 2005 15:43:13 -0700 (PDT) ayla allan writes:

Thank you! I am saving this email and am calling him Monday. Also, he didn't want me to go back for more blood works until I am 8 weeks on the meds, is that normal? I guess a couple of weeks isn't going to make any monumental difference, but I am so very anxious to get on with this and see a change for the better.

Thanks again. I've been spending alot of time lurking here and reading up, but not alot of posting. I feel I have so much to learn it's crazy!

Ayla

May 30, 2005

I thought that it took couple of weeks for your body to asorb the hormones and it show up on your bloodwork. If this is true, why would it make a difference if you took the medication the morning of bloodwork? I am going or more blood work on July 1. I wonder if this could be the reason he told me my last blood work was OK and I still feel half dead?

Jeannie

Re: Feel like I have Alzheimer's..

4 to 6 weeks is the average time for the body to fully adjust to and realize the addition of thyroid hormone... waiting till 8 I dont' think would upset me.... having it done at 3 or 'come back next year' that would bother me....

Reminder.. for EVERYONE... don't take your meds the morning that your blood is drawn.. the test will show the levels of what you have taken and not what is accumulated... I hope that makes sense... you want to see what has built up in your blood... not what is in your blood from what you've just taken....

So... for those on synthetics that dose in the morning.... don't take it until after the blood draw.. everyone else... dont' take anything for at LEAST 12 hours before the blood draw...

Topper () *who sometimes just posts stuff as it falls out of my brain... *

On Mon, 30 May 2005 15:43:13 -0700 (PDT) ayla allan writes:

Thank you! I am saving this email and am calling him Monday. Also, he didn't want me to go back for more blood works until I am 8 weeks on the meds, is that normal? I guess a couple of weeks isn't going to make any monumental difference, but I am so very anxious to get on with this and see a change for the better.

Thanks again. I've been spending alot of time lurking here and reading up, but not alot of posting. I feel I have so much to learn it's crazy!

Ayla

May 30, 2005

I agree....I don't mean to sound like a *spaz*....just that an extra month wasted is something I dont' take lightly anymore! If they can test me at 4-6 weeks and make whatever adjustments they need to that may leave me feeling at all better by the time that 8 week mark rolls around, then that's what I want to do.

Besides, if i'm going to call and piss off the doc Tuesday morning I may as well go all the way.

Thank you for telling me about NOT taking the meds the day of a blood draw. I had no idea.

You know, when I first got my numers from the initial blood test, I think I posted them, but if I got replies, I missed them or something. I was just curious, if I were to post them again, with your experience can you offer some insight as to how long you think this mnay have been going on for me, how BAD it really is, and in comparison to others numbers what can I expect from them? And anything else you think I should know but can't think to ask right now?

I have here.....

Free t4= 0.79 theres a reference number next to that of 0.8-1.8

then my TSH serum was 17.33. there's nothing written on this sheet as to the range but I remember the nurse who called me said the high should have been 5.5.

That's all that I have in that certain column. Anything else I need to look out for?

Thanks for listening, I hope i'm making some small amount of sense!

Ayla (who does an awful LOT of posting of things as they fall out of her brain as well!!)topper2@... wrote:

4 to 6 weeks is the average time for the body to fully adjust to and realize the addition of thyroid hormone... waiting till 8 I dont' think would upset me.... having it done at 3 or 'come back next year' that would bother me....

Reminder.. for EVERYONE... don't take your meds the morning that your blood is drawn.. the test will show the levels of what you have taken and not what is accumulated... I hope that makes sense... you want to see what has built up in your blood... not what is in your blood from what you've just taken....

So... for those on synthetics that dose in the morning.... don't take it until after the blood draw.. everyone else... dont' take anything for at LEAST 12 hours before the blood draw...

Topper () *who sometimes just posts stuff as it falls out of my brain... *

On Mon, 30 May 2005 15:43:13 -0700 (PDT) ayla allan writes:

Thank you! I am saving this email and am calling him Monday. Also, he didn't want me to go back for more blood works until I am 8 weeks on the meds, is that normal? I guess a couple of weeks isn't going to make any monumental difference, but I am so very anxious to get on with this and see a change for the better.

Thanks again. I've been spending alot of time lurking here and reading up, but not alot of posting. I feel I have so much to learn it's crazy!

Ayla__________________________________________________

May 30, 2005

OMG, shoot the $* & ^%! OMG! Topper and , do you all have a folder for

the dumbest crap that doctors have ever said?

Re: Feel like I have Alzheimer's..

> This last week when I told my endocrinologist to do the autoimmune test

> and the adrenal gland test. She asked me why do I need to do all them.

> I told her because I WANT TO KNOW.. what caused my thyroid problem in

> the first place.

>

> She blankly bent over chair . looked me straight in the eye and said..

> Does it really matter what caused it?

>

> I was speechless. Then responded, well of course it matters.

>

> Deana

May 30, 2005

Topper what natural thyroid medicane are you on? I cant get my

endocrinologist to budge. So I told my husband I am going to see a

naturopath dr but it will cost us $225 down. to see him and that $10

cost of the first motnhs natural thyroid medicane

Hugs

Deana

topper2@... wrote:

>

> The PF in my foot... the permanent injury that I was told, by my doc,

> would be a lifelong affliction..... ready... are you ready? is GONE in

> just a few months after starting on natural thyroid... how SAD is

> that?????

>

May 30, 2005

Good gosh, I would NOT want to be treated by this doc in an ER! Can you see it? Scenario: Patient is in respiratory distress and is turning blue on lips and fingers. Doc says "Cut a hole in her trach and that'll solve the problem." Better yet: Patient may have a broken bone because leg is shaped funny. Doc says "No xray, straighten out leg and send home with narcotic pain killer." Sheesh!!!

Re: Feel like I have Alzheimer's..

Not only does it matter so that you know why... but it matters in how you treat this... do you simply need replacement, do you need to suppress TSH, do you need to pay special attention to conversion? Do you need adrenal support? Do you need to beat people around you to get them to reduce your stress level by leaving you alone? All these things matter and you can't address any of it until you know what the cause is, how your body is responding to what you are doing and what you need to pay special attention to during this healing AND maintenance process....

Does she try to find out what causes a rash on a baby or just give a cream and hope it's the right one?

Well... geee, maybe she does.....

What a JERK!!!!!

Good for you, Deana, not backing down.!

Topper ()

On Mon, 30 May 2005 15:52:13 -0500 Deana Brown writes:

This last week when I told my endocrinologist to do the autoimmune test and the adrenal gland test. She asked me why do I need to do all them. I told her because I WANT TO KNOW.. what caused my thyroid problem in the first place. She blankly bent over chair . looked me straight in the eye and said.. Does it really matter what caused it? I was speechless. Then responded, well of course it matters.Deana

May 30, 2005

Because I'd like to know what my THYROID hormone levels are, not just my Thyroid Stimulating Hormone? In hypo, the pituitary gets as slow and sick as the rest of the body, we're thinking, for the most part. It only does it's job right in the normal body rhythm of a healthy thyroid, and when the thyroid gets sick, that's now out the window. On thyroid medication and sick thyroid, the rhythmic responses aren't the same as they were, none of them. That's why it takes so long to adjust meds and find the right one for each person, because, it's basically like whistling in the dark still. Very few persons have I seen feel absolutely wonderful at the beginning, except for a handful who were ny On the Spot at knowing something was wrong right away, when they first began to have symptoms, then got a proper diagnosis and the right treatment for them right away, at the same time. Those, like most of us, went forever without treatment. What took awhile to become so bad, often doesn't repair overnight. I was like this for as long as yrs before the problem was discovered, then, it took forever to discover what form of the disease I have (of my OWN doing, I might add). Now it's taking a long time to undo it because I'm still seeking the proper combo and what works, individually, for ME, and still learning all the time.

Re: Feel like I have Alzheimer's..

My doc sent me the next slip that I am to take to the lab the next time I have blood drawn and I notice he's only checked off the TSH...I'm thinking of calling and telling him I want the other tests as well, but am imagining the conversation in my head, and him askimg me WHY do I think I need all these additional tests? And I wouldn't know what to say? LOL If someone has a minute can y'all explain the who what where's and when's on these tests? I'd sure appreciate it.

I'm going on about 3 weeks of 125 mcg synthroid, and some days I feel like I can notice some small improvements in my energy level, but other days, I still wish I could sleeeep sleep sleep! My right heel feels alot better than it used to but my left heel is still really painful. I think i've lost a few lbs even though I havent really changed my eating habits, so I guess that's a good thing hehe. I guess I feel a little let down! I was expecting to wake up one day feeling like a new woman and so far it just hasn't happened...

Ayla

May 30, 2005

The new TSH ranges, now about two years old, are .3 to 3.0... it's no longer 5.5... that dates your clinic and how current they are on thyroid care.. Yours is over 17.. I can tell from that number that you feel like crap...

Your free T4 is below range.... for MOST people.. Free T4 needs to be mid range or slightly higher to feel well...... so you have a Free T4 at .79 and it should be a bit above 1.3.....

Your thyroid hormones are too low. Can see that without even looking at Free T3.. not enough T4 to convert.

Now.. wasting a month.... this is relative.... Ponder this.... if you test too soon and the numbers are inaccurate, you could increase too much, too soon... if that causes you to have too much hormone, you have to back off for a while so that your body can use up the excess and then start up again.... not only will you lose all that time, but your body, your heart and your head are gonna go through a LOT more stress than if you just take it a bit slower.

I have gotten too cocky and increased too quickly... I went mildly hyper and had to back off for several weeks, then start up at my previous dose and wait to be stable on that.. and then try the increase again... if I'd waited two weeks longer to increase I could have handled it better.... as it was I lost over two months.... in an attempt to save two weeks.

Now... on that same train of thought... if your levels are still WAY too low (your TSH and T4 reflect that) waiting an extra two weeks is waiting an extra two weeks.....

Considering that a good many docs make folks wait a LOT longer and even say 'see you next year' 8 weeks isn't so bad.

Some folks can handle adjustments at the four week mark, others six.... me... I'm 8 weeks.. and still uncomfortable the first week after an increase.. we're all individual in this.. has to do with how our bodies are functioning....

I KNOW.. oh boy oh boy do I know how bad you want to get better.... but, personal opinion here, being kind to your body, giving it a chance to adjust and heal is worth the effort....

Now... all that said... tell the doc that you have a family event being planned and if you can come in two weeks earlier everyone's dates will fall into place..

Topper () *who, me? I never said that.. why would I say something like that? Fib to a doctor... nah.. I'd never fib to a doctor.... *

On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:01:58 -0700 (PDT) ayla allan writes:

I agree....I don't mean to sound like a *spaz*....just that an extra month wasted is something I dont' take lightly anymore! If they can test me at 4-6 weeks and make whatever adjustments they need to that may leave me feeling at all better by the time that 8 week mark rolls around, then that's what I want to do.

Besides, if i'm going to call and piss off the doc Tuesday morning I may as well go all the way.

Thank you for telling me about NOT taking the meds the day of a blood draw. I had no idea.

You know, when I first got my numers from the initial blood test, I think I posted them, but if I got replies, I missed them or something. I was just curious, if I were to post them again, with your experience can you offer some insight as to how long you think this mnay have been going on for me, how BAD it really is, and in comparison to others numbers what can I expect from them? And anything else you think I should know but can't think to ask right now?

I have here.....

Free t4= 0.79 theres a reference number next to that of 0.8-1.8

then my TSH serum was 17.33. there's nothing written on this sheet as to the range but I remember the nurse who called me said the high should have been 5.5.

That's all that I have in that certain column. Anything else I need to look out for?

Thanks for listening, I hope i'm making some small amount of sense!

Ayla (who does an awful LOT of posting of things as they fall out of her brain as well!!)

May 30, 2005

I'm on Time-Caps Labs brand... a prescription grade natural thyroid, manufactured in the same way as Armour brand from New York state.... I bought through a pharmacy in Mexico that has been closed down for money laundering.... I'm now looking for a new source. I may have to change brands, that thought doesn't thrill me.. it will mean adjusting to new fillers and determining a new dosage... BTW you have to do that every time you change brands.. even if you are staying with the same type of hormone, synthetic to synthetic or natural to natural.. .this is due to the different fillers and release rates from brand to brand and how your body reacts to them.

Check with the Naturopath and find out what brand he prescribes.... I have no huge preference from one brand to another... and I admit that I've only tried two brands.... I just want to be sure that he is going to be giving you a thyroid hormone replacement and not a thyroid stimulator..... HUGE difference there....

The relief of the PF symptoms in my foot was realized while I was on an OTC (over the counter) grade of thyroid glandular... not even prescription grade.. I consider that an indicator that I was not converting the synthetic enough to be well... that such a small dose of natural could make such a huge difference in such a short time....

Topper ()

On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:23:35 -0500 Deana Brown writes:

Topper what natural thyroid medicane are you on? I cant get my endocrinologist to budge. So I told my husband I am going to see a naturopath dr but it will cost us $225 down. to see him and that $10 cost of the first motnhs natural thyroid medicaneHugsDeana

May 30, 2005

,

THANK YOU! This is the kind of explanation, that if doctors were to take the time to give us in the first place, I think it would save them their *precious* time in the first place. (And make for a much happier healthier patient!)

With all that understood, I think my newly educated decision would be to wait the additional couple of weeks and not take my chances on increasing too much too soon. I have always been really sensitive to meds of all kinds all of my life and was actually really frightened that the synthroid wouldn't be any different, but so far....the side effects aren't *too* much to bear. Considering what I am (hopefully) gaining from them. Speaking of side effects....so far I have gotten a few real whopper headaches. I used to be a chronic migraine sufferer, so I am pretty tough when it comes to that sort of thing....this is just entirely different. Instead of behind my right eye where all of my migraines used to originate, these new headaches are at the base of my skull, kind of like somone kicked the back of my head with a nice pair of soccer cleats

The other noticeable side effect i've had is....and this is weird......some very serious PMS like tantrums going on!!! LOL I've tried my best to find this on any website but so far nothing~! I guess maybe just weirdos like me manage to come up with a side effect like that....

This one is far worse on my family than me, because I am likely to burst into tears without ANY warning whatsoever. I, myself am not even aware it's going to hit before it's too late. hehe silly Reminds me of my teen years. (just thought i;d throw that in for a bit of comic relief)

Ok i'm about to burn everyone's dinner and make them all mad at me so i'm signing off for now.

Thank you , I plan to post soon about my misfortunes with doctors so y'all can understand why I am so freaked out at the prospect of being at their mercy again.....

take care all

Ayla

m wrote: