Re: Weight Gain after WLS

[Guest guest]

Yes, yes, yes! You're exactly right!

(How'd you get so smart?)

Steve

At 08:57 AM 10/28/99 -0400, you wrote:

>

>

>Guys and gals!

>

>please don't beat yourself up about eating a donut or such. I hate to sound

>like a broken record or such but maybe the problem isn't necessarily with

>what you are eating but how you are eating. I have been eavesdropping on the

>007 secrets list for several months and have realized that as soon as we

>attach guilt or some other negative to food, we crave it even more. The only

>way to combat such negative eating -- and negative results -- is to allow

>ourselves anything that will satisfy us. If we want a donut eat a donut as

>long as we are hungry. No food is a negative food unless of course it makes

>us sick and makes us feel negative. Rather everything we eat should be

>savored and enjoyed.

>

>Boy this sounds something like food adulation. But it is something I have

>learned. And that i practice. i eat whatever I want when I am hungry. And I

>study myself to make sure that I am hungry physically and not looking for a

>panacea. Maybe this would work for you to try.

>

>But please don't beat yourselves up about what you have lost or haven't.

>There is always stuff we could have done better but the fact that we have

>gotten as far as we have is amiracle in itself. WLS is a tool -- that is

>all. It works differently for everyone. 100% of the people who have it are

>not going to hit their insurance goal weights but you will hopefully feel

>healthier and better about yourself.

>

>

> Rasley

>mailto:drasley@...

>BTC, Columbus Ohio October 7th, 1998

>Starting weight: 348 pounds

>After surgery: Healthy, happy and wiser

>

>> Re: Weight Gain after WLS

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> > I do not blame myself. It's the luck of the draw with this

>> > surgery. What

>> > pisses me off is that success is assumed to be due to healthy

>> > eating and

>> > exercise. No one ever surveys WHO are the healthy eaters.

>> > Exercise I grant

>> > you is a big factor. But people who can maintain their weights

>> > also dump,

>> > can eat only tiny amounts and aren't hungry all the time. They also

>> > lose

>> > their taste for sweets and fats. They're not the folks who don't

>> > dump and who

>> > have larger capacities and still crave sweets and fats.. This is

>> > the luck of

>> > the draw, not due to individual willpower or attitude.

>>

>> a,

>> Thank you for your post. I have been feeling like shit for a long

>> time as my eating has become out of control. I am majorly addicted to

>> sugar, and I want to eat all the time. I wish so bad I had been one

>> of the ones to make it past goal weight, and have people worry that I

>> was anorexic. Or one of those that the weight just melted off and

>> they never exercise. Instead, I've gained from my lowest point of

>> about a year ago, and I'm only 1.5 years out. I've been feeling very

>> guilty, but your post made me realize that I didn't get a lot of the

>> benefits from this surgery that some did. I don't dump. I get hungry

>> (LOTS). I can eat more than I think I should. I still crave all the

>> same bad foods that got me so fat in the first place....sigh....

>> Your post made me realize it's not ALL my fault. Of course I take

>> responsibility for ME putting the cookie in my mouth, but I just wish

>> that, like many other surgery patients, I didn't crave it. Or I'd get

>> dumping. I'm just feeling like the same pitiful Sharon that put

>> whatever she wanted into her mouth, and my surgery helps decrease the

>> volume some, but the scale is definitely moving upward again....it's

>> just killing me. I wish so bad I could get a revision--I'd gladly go

>> thru this again if it would help. But my upper GI from 6 months ago

>> showed my pouch to still only be 2-3 oz, so my doc won't re-do me.

>> It's so discouraging to see that if THIS didn't work for me, I know

>> that there's nothing else to try besides DIETING/EXCERISE and I know

>> how well they worked in the past. It's certainly easier to " diet " now

>> than before, but still not easy by any means. I KNOW in my head that

>> I should cut out the carbs, and especially the sugar, but I KNEW that

>> before surgery. Knowing it doesn't help. Just makes me feel guilty

>> when I eat the doughnut anyway. I needed the surgery to provide a

>> physical barrier/deterrment in the form of not being as hungry, not

>> being able to eat so much, not tolerating certain foods, not craving

>> certain foods, as so many post-ops had experienced before me. I

>> didn't get all that good stuff. I had just hoped that this battle and

>> torture would have been relieved by the surgery, but it rages on, as

>> vicious as ever....

>> Sadly,

>> Fairfax Sharon

>>

>> >

>

>>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/1999 6:35:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

sharon1188@... writes:

> I've heard that too--that once you remove the " forbiddenness " of a

> food, that you won't crave it so much. So I eat it. I still want it,

> and more. The weight is coming back. I know I'm eating at times when

> I'm not physically hungry. I KNOW I shouldn't. But I still do. I'm

> definitely addicted to food, especially sugar. Definition of

> addiction: " persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the

> user to be harmful. " I KNOW what I'm doing is harmful and wrong, and

> I do it anyway. And eating whatever I want entails eating high fat,

> high sugar, high carb, high calorie foods, cuz those are the foods

> that I want. Junk food. I don't crave vegetables at all.

> When you've gone thru all this, only to find yourself gaining again

> at less than a year out, there's no way to not beat yourself up.

> I think my next surgery should be to have my hands stapled---to my

> side to prevent them from putting food in my mouth....heck, knowing

> me, I'd learn to pick up a candy bar with my toes....

> (Still having my sense of humor---oh geez, I'm fat and jolly...)

> Fairfax Sharon

Hi Sharon,

You sound like me . . . Has anyone ever accused you of impatience? LOL .

.. . Do you want stuff done like . . . YESTERDAY? If so, we are a lot alike .

.. . I am know as tenacious and hard headed as well. I f I can do this, you

can too! I got through all the food attractions! But, it wasn't easy . . .

there was a big part of me that wanted the weight off NOW and didn't want to

mess with this getting right with food crap! I thought of another diet first

and foremost. And because I am hardheaded and firmly entrenched in my carb

addicted ways, it took me what seemed like a hell of a long time to get past

my food obsessions . . . I thought I was addicted to the C's (cake, candy,

cookies, chocolate and cocktails!), but by allowing them and eating them to

my hearts content (only when physically hungry), I found out I don't feel so

hot eating those foods so guess what? FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE 42 HISTORY

OF MY PERSONAL HALLOWEENS, I will not consume everything in sight! I don't

even like candy if it isn't Godiva or Dove, I don't like cookies unless they

are warm from the oven and I am there as a physically hungry opportunist, and

a single cocktail every so often is enough . .. the rest I don't even like!

If I can do this with a short proximal RNY and without my hands stapled to my

sides . . . so can you! LOL

Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/27/1999 10:18:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

RAltman813@... writes:

> I eat about 2500 calories a day with

> 40 - 50 grams of carbs (160 - 200 calories). I also take specially

prepared

> vitamins (we have a nutritionist working with our surgeon) that replaces

> everything that is not absorbed.

>

> Try it. It will work.

>

> BobA

>

Please . . . No offense is intended Bob, but a calorie is a calorie, your

body only needs so much protein for repairing and growth (its function) and

then the rest of the extra protein is used the same as fat or carbs would be.

(I took 2 years of scientific nutrition along with the R.D. majors in

college.) If you consume calories in excess of your daily 'burn' you gain

and the protein is stored as fat. If you eat less calories than your daily

'burn' you lose . . . no matter what kind of calories they are. If you eat a

diet that is 100% protein, it will do the divided functions of repairing,

growth and energy metabolism. The thing about the protein is, that it has a

very specific function and its function cannot be replaced by carbs or fat .

.. . and your body will take protein from muscles or organs (including the

heart) to fill its protein needs. As for the amount of calories one

consumes, if I ate the 2500 calories a day you are able to and still lose, I

would still have a lot of weight on me. We all have had different surgeries

.. . . I personally have a very short prox. RNY, but I have ZERO

malabsorption . . . So my success is dependent on my 'getting right with

food.' The only freebie weightloss was the first 3 months and the help I get

from having a small stomach to remind me of errors! I try to eat only when I

am physically hungry and only until I am satisfied . . . no more no less. I

eat whatever I want, funny thing is, with the freedom to eat anything, the

strong desire to respect my body and eat healthy accompanied it. As a

matter of fact, if a normal not obese person is put on a restricted diet, the

first thing they do off of it is eat the food they were not allowed to have .

.. . Truly the key is listening to your body . . .

Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

hrussak@... wrote:

>

> I disagree that it's the luck of the draw. I think the distal RNY people

Trish here - casting my vote on the subject .... I think some of the

syptoms are a luck of the draw... symptoms like intollerance of certain

foods, dumping, and the volume of food one can consume.... example...

my doc makes the pouches a bit larger than other docs... some of his

post ops can eat 1 cup or less (of any given food) and another can

*easily* eat twice as much... with the surgery month being the same I

haven't been able to determine any reason for the variance except for

genetics... I have always considered these symptoms to be a good thing,

bummer that I didn't get them.

[Guest guest]

I agree that we have to listen to our bodies, no matter which form of WLS we

have had. Our surgeon removes 85-90% of our stomachs and bypasses about 8.4

feet of the small intestine so there is a lot of malabsorbtion. I eat a lot

of protein and not a lot of carbs. when I eat more carbs I tend to gain a

little. I am 12.5 mos post op and have lost 201 pounds so far. I will lose

about 8-10 pounds on Nov 8th when I have my hernia repair and tummy tuck and

then I'll be done with losing. What is great about all this is that I am

finally in control of my body and my weight for the first time in my 55

years! I can still cook (which I love) and get healthy. I also know that the

more I can burn in exercise the more of what I take in will burn off.

BobA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/1999 9:43:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

hrussak@... writes:

<<

Uh... hello... have you been reading the list? There are many of us here who

barely dump, can eat larger amounts, *are* hungry all the time, and still

want

sweets and fats. I'm one of those. I attribute my success as a combination

of wls and exercise and willpower. I feel like I'm on the edge of possible

weight

gain and exercise is the only thing keeping me somewhat in control.

I disagree that it's the luck of the draw. I think the distal RNY people

have a somewhat

easier time with food because of the dramatic surgical intervention, but we

all still

have to change our behaviors and incorporate exercise to get/stay at our

goal weights. That's what

I've learned. I hope your book reflects that too, since your perspective

isn't everyone's reality (nor

is it the majority reality, from what I've read here and elsewhere).

-Hillary

Open RNY 2/4/99

5'9 "

Start weight 280

Now 168>>

I don't wish to burst your bubble Hillary, but you are only 8 months out.

You have lost an enormous amount of weight (it should only happen to me) and

most of that can probably be attributed to the surgery. I would be willing

to bet that if you hadn't exercised and used willpower AT ALL you still would

have lost 10 lbs a month, a very respectable amount, and would still be

losing. You just lost more than that with exercise and diet.

Before surgery, most of us have been on diets for much longer than 8

months, some of us have lost ALL our excess weight on diets and kept it off

for varying lengths of time--only to regain it all and more EVENTUALLY. The

accent here is on the EVENTUALLY. The first year after wls is like the

honeymoon period of a new diet--euphoria sets in, the metabolic rate is upped

and it's easy to watch what you eat. You get all enthusiastic about exercise

and eating right like when you're on a new diet that you're positive will

change your life. The problem is that as time goes on we revert to our old

bad habits that got us fat in the first place, unless we're like my friend

Kenny and many others who eat like they're supposed to BECAUSE THEY FEEL

LIKE IT--and/or they get really sick not eating that way.

Right now you say you're on the edge of possible weight gain and exercise is

keeping you in control. The problem will come a year from now, two years

from now, or more, when the euphoria is over and those cravings come back

full force and you're tired of fighting them. You may also get sick of the

gym. You're only human and willpower just doesn't last forever. (Neither

does the Atkins diet--you can only eat that way for so long then it gets

sickening).

I really admire folks who can use willpower or Atkins and keep going to the

gym for 2 hours four times a week. I wish I had that much time for the gym.

But can you do that forever??? That's the question. Personally I vote for

the exercise solution because I like to exercise,but a lot of people hate it.

It's pretty hard to keep doing something you hate forever. Kenny will keep

his weight off forever because it's easy for him. And I've spoken to many

others who do it also because it's easy for them. For those of us who don't

find it easy--well how did we do on all those diets in the past that weren't

easy? By now we all know that diets don't work--so why should they work post

op when they didn't work pre op. The answer is, they don't

I know that I am as motivated and psychologically in better shape than many

many (dare I say most) post ops who do much better than I weight-wise. I've

always led an active, full life and never never let my weight get in the way

of full participation in life. I'm not on anti-depressants (well St. s

Wort) and I'm an extremely assertive, competent, accomplished human being.

I'm happily married and have lots of friends who dont' care what I weigh. I

had no fantasies about weight loss transforming my life in any way except

that I wanted be healthier and more mobile. There is no earthly reason for

me being any worse at this than anyone else except that my pouch is bigger

than it should be because my LAP surgeon couldn't around my hiatal hernia (a

good reason to have open surgery for anyone who's wondering), and I have an

iron gut which can tolerate anything.

I agree that for me WLS is only a tool, not a panacea. It helps me to not

eat huge amounts at one sitting--that's all. I think it also gave me the

incentive to at least try to keep my weight under control--now I have hope

that at least I can stay just obese instead of morbidly obese. I try to eat

as sparingly as I possibly can, I try to pay attention to my hunger and

satiety signals, I try to find healthy, filling foods and concentrate on

them, I try to get to the gym, I try to stay away from sweets, and I try to

forgive myself for not managing to do the above a lot of the time. More than

this I cannot manage.

I still maintain that it's the luck of the draw. Those of us who draw the

short straws will have to continue to struggle, and we may or may not

succeed. It will be a few years before the results are in, for those of you

who think you've got it knocked after a year or less.

For those who are still struggling, my heart goes out to you. Just don't

beat yourself up. It's bad enough to not get the best result after taking a

major step like this. It's worse to sink back into self-blame and

self-hatred.

Peggy you're right about pre-ops reading this and losing some of their

fantasies, though for some their fantasies will come true. I read a post

recently though from a recent post op who said she thought the key to success

with this surgery is low expectations. That is so true. I always remind

myself that my diabetes is now controlled with a tiny amount of medication

instead of out of control with a massive amount. That means a lot.

a

LAP RNY 1/15/99 Dr. Gagner NYC

255 to 200

[Guest guest]

i figure it this way. As long as I am ahead in this -- meaning have lost

more than I gained (and yes I do believe I will gain some back -- 10 to 15%

of what I have lost is supposed to be normal) -- then I am doing good. i

have gained so much in how my body feels and how much I like myself and can

do that I can't see becoming inert again. Which means I won't let myself

gain it back.

Rasley

mailto:drasley@...

BTC, Columbus Ohio October 7th, 1998

Starting weight: 348 pounds

After surgery: Healthy, happy and wiser

> Re: Weight Gain after WLS

>

>

> From: RAltman813@...

>

> ,

>

> I agree with you. We tend to beat ourselves up too much. Look

> what we have

> accomplished. Look at the positive! for me the glass is always

> half full not

> half empty. If I want a certain food I eat it too, although I

> really try to

> avoid sugar and carbs, but every now and then I eat some. Guess

> what? I live

> through it and I'm still losing weight. I've lost 201 pounds this

> way and a

> few pounds one way or the other do not matter.

>

> BobA

>

> >

[Guest guest]

>

>> I eat about 2500 calories a day with 40 - 50 grams of

carbs (160 - 200 calories). I also take specially prepared

vitamins (we have a nutritionist working with our surgeon)

that replaces everything that is not absorbed.

>>

>> Try it. It will work.

>>

>> BobA

>>

Please . . . No offense is intended Bob, but a calorie is a

calorie...

I have to agree here and I do not mean to insult, flame, be

rude or anything - if this is working for you I appauld you

but for a 5ft. tall woman there is no way she could consume

2500 calories and lose weight.

I didn't consume that much pre-op [which many would not

believe] but with hypothyroidism and simply consuming the

wrong foods [sugars] all the time.........

I know my intake is closer to 1100 calories and i am

currently losing only 1-3 pounds a month and I think from

the folks i have talked too that this is more common for a

woman. I always said if I was just 6 ft tall I wouldn't have

been fat.

sue

[Guest guest]

I guess i had some good teachers. Lurking around long enough and listening

to enough people makes me smart. It isn't what you say so much as what you

learn!

Rasley

mailto:drasley@...

BTC, Columbus Ohio October 7th, 1998

Starting weight: 348 pounds

After surgery: Healthy, happy and wiser

> Re: Weight Gain after WLS

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> > I do not blame myself. It's the luck of the draw with this

> >> > surgery. What

> >> > pisses me off is that success is assumed to be due to healthy

> >> > eating and

> >> > exercise. No one ever surveys WHO are the healthy eaters.

> >> > Exercise I grant

> >> > you is a big factor. But people who can maintain their weights

> >> > also dump,

> >> > can eat only tiny amounts and aren't hungry all the time. They also

> >> > lose

> >> > their taste for sweets and fats. They're not the folks who don't

> >> > dump and who

> >> > have larger capacities and still crave sweets and fats.. This is

> >> > the luck of

> >> > the draw, not due to individual willpower or attitude.

> >>

> >> a,

> >> Thank you for your post. I have been feeling like shit for a long

> >> time as my eating has become out of control. I am majorly addicted to

> >> sugar, and I want to eat all the time. I wish so bad I had been one

> >> of the ones to make it past goal weight, and have people worry that I

> >> was anorexic. Or one of those that the weight just melted off and

> >> they never exercise. Instead, I've gained from my lowest point of

> >> about a year ago, and I'm only 1.5 years out. I've been feeling very

> >> guilty, but your post made me realize that I didn't get a lot of the

> >> benefits from this surgery that some did. I don't dump. I get hungry

> >> (LOTS). I can eat more than I think I should. I still crave all the

> >> same bad foods that got me so fat in the first place....sigh....

> >> Your post made me realize it's not ALL my fault. Of course I take

> >> responsibility for ME putting the cookie in my mouth, but I just wish

> >> that, like many other surgery patients, I didn't crave it. Or I'd get

> >> dumping. I'm just feeling like the same pitiful Sharon that put

> >> whatever she wanted into her mouth, and my surgery helps decrease the

> >> volume some, but the scale is definitely moving upward again....it's

> >> just killing me. I wish so bad I could get a revision--I'd gladly go

> >> thru this again if it would help. But my upper GI from 6 months ago

> >> showed my pouch to still only be 2-3 oz, so my doc won't re-do me.

> >> It's so discouraging to see that if THIS didn't work for me, I know

> >> that there's nothing else to try besides DIETING/EXCERISE and I know

> >> how well they worked in the past. It's certainly easier to " diet " now

> >> than before, but still not easy by any means. I KNOW in my head that

> >> I should cut out the carbs, and especially the sugar, but I KNEW that

> >> before surgery. Knowing it doesn't help. Just makes me feel guilty

> >> when I eat the doughnut anyway. I needed the surgery to provide a

> >> physical barrier/deterrment in the form of not being as hungry, not

> >> being able to eat so much, not tolerating certain foods, not craving

> >> certain foods, as so many post-ops had experienced before me. I

> >> didn't get all that good stuff. I had just hoped that this battle and

> >> torture would have been relieved by the surgery, but it rages on, as

> >> vicious as ever....

> >> Sadly,

> >> Fairfax Sharon

> >>

> >> >

> >

> >>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated Thu, 28 Oct 1999 8:38:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

HaaseVP@... writes:

> From: HaaseVP@...

>

> In a message dated 10/27/1999 10:18:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> RAltman813@... writes:

>

> > I eat about 2500 calories a day with

> > 40 - 50 grams of carbs (160 - 200 calories). I also take specially

> prepared

> > vitamins (we have a nutritionist working with our surgeon) that replaces

> > everything that is not absorbed.

> >

> > Try it. It will work.

> >

> > BobA

> >

> Please . . . No offense is intended Bob, but a calorie is a calorie, your

> body only needs so much protein for repairing and growth (its function) and

> then the rest of the extra protein is used the same as fat or carbs would be.

> Vicki in CA

***********************

Actually Vicki I have done some research and several studies show that morbidly

obese individuals and post-obesity surgery individuals do not process carbs the

same way a naturally thin person does. In other words even though a protein and

a carb have the same number of calories, if I eat a gram of protein I derive

more benefit and am less likely to store it as fat than if I eat a gram of

carbs. Also unused carbs are converted to glycogen which (in my opinion) our

empty fat cells are sitting about greedily waiting to fill up with. If I

overate carbs it IMMEDIATELY used to show up on the scale where as if I ate

protein to my heart's content I maintained or even lost weight. Now that I am

very physically active I am able to eat carbs without the weight gain

consequences but that is because my metabolism is running at a much higher speed

since I am weight training.

Calorie intake probably does come into play because for the majority of us-when

we eat protein we fill up quicker than we do with carbs and stay satiated longer

so I think we eat fewer calories. But there are some real absorption and

metabolic changes that occur with this surgery that affect us greatly. Bob and

I have extreme distals(10 feet bypassed) with BPDs (same doctor)and therefore we

process our nutrients and calories differently than you probably do with a

proximal. Our doctor tells us constantly to cut the carbs and those of us that

do lose weight and those of us that don't...don't.

I am a firm believer that all calories are no longer created equal after my

surgery.

Betty D.

RNY 03/02/98 -145 lbs

[Guest guest]

Betty,

Well said, as usual.

bob

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/29/1999 3:09:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

rudnicki@... writes:

> I always said if I was just 6 ft tall I wouldn't have

> been fat.

> sue

>

Yeah it sucks being short sometimes! (I myself am 5'5 " , was meant to be 5'7 "

.. . . but I have scoliolis) Guys have WLS and drop to slim in no time . . .

they always make me feel like a failure. Not really, but I do get incredibly

jealous . . . its the only time I wish I was a guy . . .

Vicki in CA

[Guest guest]

Awesome and well written a!

I started out hoping for a 120 pound weight loss in a year . . . health

was the motivating factor and at 4 months post op my weight loss stopped, not

a plateau . . . it stopped. I was ready to sell my soul to the devil to get

slim, instead I just became thankful for what the surgery did give me and

went on to 'get right with food.' I think I will achieve my slim natural

weight eventually, and the surgery helped in that it restricted quantity

while I got through all my old 'no- no's and diet depravation cravings that

caused me to get morbidly obese in the first place.

OSSG in general seems to focus on losing the most weight in the shortest

amount of time. Is that a healthiest focus we could have? Is it really a

beneficial focus? For pre ops looking in, all of our weight losses look

great and are inspiring . . . So, If this has to be a race, then its a

marathon and not a sprint! Let's have a focus that gets everyone past the

finish line! Are you willing to do whatever exercise you are doing to speed

the weightloss, for the rest of your life? Or is it a case of the " Oprah

syndrome " ? She only did it for weight loss . . . its just not who she really

is . . . it was not maintainable.

The surgery is our opportunity to be and find out who we are. The

surgery is our opportunity to forget dieting and 'get right with food.' That

is what I wanted out of the surgery and I think that is what most of us get

regardless of what we lose . . .There have been benefits to slow weight loss

post op . . .

1. No hanging skin. I look very healthy. My skin is very tight everywhere

except my very small pannus (apron).

2. I had to learn to stop eating to stuff emotions that are both good and

bad. So now I feel more of my life both the negative and positive. And there

is much less negative and much more positive!

3. I have had an easier time adjusting to my new body. The weight loss

hasn't been so fast that I can't keep up with the changes.

4. Because of the slower weight loss and how quickly my body adjusted to the

surgery, I don't take this gift for granted.

Yes, there is definitely a part of me that envies people that have lost

more weight, in a shorter period of time, with less effort than myself . . .

but I just have to be thankful for what I did get out of surgery, not what I

didn't! Always, remember that statistically speaking, regardless of the

procedure, about 15% of WLS patients lose to ideal weight AND maintain that

loss for 5 years . . . 85% don't, as a matter of fact another 15% flat out

fail to lose at least 50% of the excess weight and maintain it for 5 years

(That is more than 1 out ten!). . . that leaves 70% who fall somewhere

between maintaining a 50% loss and ideal weight post op . . .

Vicki in CA

In a message dated 10/29/1999 4:00:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

aMay@... writes:

> don't wish to burst your bubble Hillary, but you are only 8 months out.

> You have lost an enormous amount of weight (it should only happen to me)

and

>

> most of that can probably be attributed to the surgery. I would be

willing

> to bet that if you hadn't exercised and used willpower AT ALL you still

> would

> have lost 10 lbs a month, a very respectable amount, and would still be

> losing. You just lost more than that with exercise and diet.

>

> Before surgery, most of us have been on diets for much longer than 8

> months, some of us have lost ALL our excess weight on diets and kept it

off

> for varying lengths of time--only to regain it all and more EVENTUALLY.

The

>

> accent here is on the EVENTUALLY. The first year after wls is like the

> honeymoon period of a new diet--euphoria sets in, the metabolic rate is

> upped

> and it's easy to watch what you eat. You get all enthusiastic about

> exercise

> and eating right like when you're on a new diet that you're positive will

> change your life. The problem is that as time goes on we revert to our

old

> bad habits that got us fat in the first place, unless we're like my friend

> Kenny and many others who eat like they're supposed to BECAUSE THEY FEEL

> LIKE IT--and/or they get really sick not eating that way.

>

> Right now you say you're on the edge of possible weight gain and exercise

> is

> keeping you in control. The problem will come a year from now, two years

> from now, or more, when the euphoria is over and those cravings come back

> full force and you're tired of fighting them. You may also get sick of

the

> gym. You're only human and willpower just doesn't last forever. (Neither

> does the Atkins diet--you can only eat that way for so long then it gets

> sickening).

>

> I really admire folks who can use willpower or Atkins and keep going to

the

> gym for 2 hours four times a week. I wish I had that much time for the

gym.

>

> But can you do that forever??? That's the question. Personally I vote

for

>

> the exercise solution because I like to exercise,but a lot of people hate

it.

>

> It's pretty hard to keep doing something you hate forever. Kenny will

keep

> his weight off forever because it's easy for him. And I've spoken to many

> others who do it also because it's easy for them. For those of us who

don'

> t

> find it easy--well how did we do on all those diets in the past that

weren't

>

> easy? By now we all know that diets don't work--so why should they work

> post

> op when they didn't work pre op. The answer is, they don't

>

> I know that I am as motivated and psychologically in better shape than

many

>

> many (dare I say most) post ops who do much better than I weight-wise.

I've

>

> always led an active, full life and never never let my weight get in the

way

>

> of full participation in life. I'm not on anti-depressants (well St. s

> Wort) and I'm an extremely assertive, competent, accomplished human being.

> I'm happily married and have lots of friends who dont' care what I weigh.

> I

> had no fantasies about weight loss transforming my life in any way except

> that I wanted be healthier and more mobile. There is no earthly reason

for

>

> me being any worse at this than anyone else except that my pouch is

bigger

> than it should be because my LAP surgeon couldn't around my hiatal hernia

(a

>

> good reason to have open surgery for anyone who's wondering), and I have

an

> iron gut which can tolerate anything.

>

> I agree that for me WLS is only a tool, not a panacea. It helps me to not

> eat huge amounts at one sitting--that's all. I think it also gave me the

> incentive to at least try to keep my weight under control--now I have hope

> that at least I can stay just obese instead of morbidly obese. I try to

eat

>

> as sparingly as I possibly can, I try to pay attention to my hunger and

> satiety signals, I try to find healthy, filling foods and concentrate on

> them, I try to get to the gym, I try to stay away from sweets, and I try

to

> forgive myself for not managing to do the above a lot of the time. More

> than

> this I cannot manage.

>

> I still maintain that it's the luck of the draw. Those of us who draw

the

>

> short straws will have to continue to struggle, and we may or may not

> succeed. It will be a few years before the results are in, for those of

you

>

> who think you've got it knocked after a year or less.

>

> For those who are still struggling, my heart goes out to you. Just don't

> beat yourself up. It's bad enough to not get the best result after taking

a

>

> major step like this. It's worse to sink back into self-blame and

> self-hatred.

>

> Peggy you're right about pre-ops reading this and losing some of their

> fantasies, though for some their fantasies will come true. I read a post

> recently though from a recent post op who said she thought the key to

> success

> with this surgery is low expectations. That is so true. I always remind

> myself that my diabetes is now controlled with a tiny amount of

medication

> instead of out of control with a massive amount. That means a lot.

>

> a

> LAP RNY 1/15/99 Dr. Gagner NYC

> 255 to 200

>

[Guest guest]

<< I really admire folks who can use willpower or Atkins and keep going to

the

gym for 2 hours four times a week. I wish I had that much time for the gym.

But can you do that forever??? That's the question. >>

You have to make the time a. It's all a matter of lifestyle change. I

used to spend those same two hours watching tv. Do I really miss tv-no! Do

I enjoy going to the gym-most of the time. I am 20 months post-op and the

honeymoon has been over for close to a year now (I lost all of my weight in

about 8 months). I have struggled about 20 lbs up and down the scale since

then and found that exercise was the answer for me. I have worked too hard

to get to where I am to lose the obesity battle again...as a matter of fact I

am determined to continue with my body conditioning program hopefully for the

rest of what I hope is a very long life.

I am not saying that exercising is easy. It takes a lot of committment to

work a full time job and take care of four kids and still find the time to

exercise. It is much easier to skip a workout because I have three loads of

laundry waiting at home or a project due at work. I have found that the key

to being successful with any behavior change is to be flexible and find a way

to make it work. If I can't workout on Friday then I go on Saturday...if I

only have an hour to spare I pick the exercises that work the most muscle

groups, etc.

Optimism and hope are powerful allies. Doubt, pessimism and self-criticism

are your worst enemies. Sitting down and planning my exercise program and

diet changes are what work for me. By putting my goals on paper I find that

it gives me direction and I have less trouble reaching them. If I sound like

a sales manager I am...LOL! At least I follow my own advice! Keep the faith

a and hang in there!

Betty D. -145 lbs

[Guest guest]

Sue,

I am 5'9'' and I probably consumed about 5-6000 or more calories a day

before WLS. I now get my calories from protein and not carbs/sugars. I lost

most of the 200+ pounds in the first 10 months of post op and now I lose

about a pound a month. After my tummy tuck on Nov. 8th I will stop losing

weight since I will be where I want to be for the rest of my life. I am able

to maintain this weight by following the low carb diet. Fat is not a problem

for the patients of Dr. Marcus since he bypasses so much of the small

intestine that we do not absorb most of the fat that we eat. The key here is

the malabsorbtion, and that is taken care of be a very rigid and thorough

vitamin regimen. I have never been healthier in my life. My PCP says my blood

tests don't even look like someone who was obese, and I was obese for most of

my 55 years.

Bob A

[Guest guest]

a,

Why are you willing to settle for half? A little diabetes is OK? I don't

think so!

I agree that the WLS is just a tool, but it is a tool that has allowed me to

be in control of my life and my body for the first time in 55 years. I can

control if I lose a few pounds or gain a few. When you are 410 pounds you do

not have that control. At 188 I do. Its been the best 12.5 months of my life

(except the first few post op weeks). I am not willing to settle for half a

life.

BobA

[Guest guest]

I hope I didn't come across so " holier than thou. " Not being willing to

settle does not mean it is easy. I struggle every day of my life and

sometimes I lose the struggle and find myself hugging the porcelain God for a

while. WLS has just given me the ability to win more than I lose, but it is

not easy. At times I still want to just eat as much as I can. Luckily, I

can't eat like that anymore without getting sick. the positives in my life

are now greater than the negatives and it does get a bit easier.

BobA

[Guest guest]

Hi, Bob. I didn't think you were " holier than thou " and I hope I didn't

imply that in my post. I think part of my efforts to get a healthier

attitude toward food and my body is getting rid of all or nothing thinking.

Somewhere in the back of my mind I got an idea that I needed to follow a very

rigid diet to be healthy. Any time I couldn't live up to that ideal I " gave

up " and just went nuts, eating anything I wanted, including incredibly large

portions of unhealthy food. That's how I got so big. I think all or nothing

thinking is common in overweight people.

I'm back online on lists like this so I can get motivated and lose some more

weight, but I do think many of us need to remind ourselves of how far we've

come. I may never be down to someone else's ideal weight, but I'm so much

healthier and happier than I was at 400+ pounds.

I'm sure that's something you can relate to!

DottCommie

In a message dated 99-10-31 17:19:44 EST, you write:

<< I hope I didn't come across so " holier than thou. " Not being willing to

settle does not mean it is easy. I struggle every day of my life and

sometimes I lose the struggle and find myself hugging the porcelain God for

a

while. WLS has just given me the ability to win more than I lose, but it is

not easy. At times I still want to just eat as much as I can. Luckily, I

can't eat like that anymore without getting sick. the positives in my life

are now greater than the negatives and it does get a bit easier. >>

[Guest guest]

DottCommie,

I can relate.

I find these groups very helpful too. We have a great support group that

meets twice a month. Our surgeon, Dr. Marcus comes to the meetings as

does our nutritionist. We tell our stories and then we answer questions for

the pre ops and post ops who are having problems. And then we all go to

dinner with Dr. Marcus! Coupled with the Internet lists we can all get the

help and support that we need. I have unsubed from the main OSSG for a while

and just get a digest. The Graduate list is really great and relates more to

my current status than the main list.

Bob Altman

Biliopancreatic Diversion RNY 10/8/98: Loss=201)

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the information. It supports my theory that all calories aren't

created equal post-RNY. I appreciate your input!

Betty D.

>

> After doing some physiology reading, a protein calorie is NOT the same as a

> carbohydrate calorie. All carbohydrates are digested down to either

> glucose, galactose or fructose. Our bodies do not completely digest all we

> eat(carbs, proteins or fats), but what is digested of carbs is basically

> absorbed as sugar. That's why they can cause us gain or not lose so easily.

> Proteins, in the non-bypassed person, are initially broken down (digested)

> by an enzyme (helper) in the section of intestine ust after the stomach.

> Since we bypass this section (even in short proximals) this doesn't occur.

> Without this enzyme (trypsin) the initial breakdown doesn't occur making is

> very difficult to absorb much of the protein later. (protein is only

> absorbed in amino acid form) Hence protein calories are more diffcult to

> absorb (which is why we supplement) and less likely to cause extra weight

> gain. Hope this makes sense.

>

> Carolyn (staying in WA with Vitalady)

> Re: Weight Gain after WLS

> >From: Valadybnkr@...

> >In a message dated Thu, 28 Oct 1999 8:38:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> HaaseVP@... writes:

> >

> >> From: HaaseVP@...

> >>

> >> In a message dated 10/27/1999 10:18:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> >> RAltman813@... writes:

> >>

> >> > I eat about 2500 calories a day with

> >> > 40 - 50 grams of carbs (160 - 200 calories). I also take specially

> >> prepared

> >> > vitamins (we have a nutritionist working with our surgeon) that

> replaces

> >> > everything that is not absorbed.

> >> >

> >> > Try it. It will work.

> >> >

> >> > BobA

> >> >

> >> Please . . . No offense is intended Bob, but a calorie is a calorie,

> your

> >> body only needs so much protein for repairing and growth (its function)

> and

> >> then the rest of the extra protein is used the same as fat or carbs would

> be.

> >> Vicki in CA

> >***********************

> >Actually Vicki I have done some research and several studies show that

> morbidly obese individuals and post-obesity surgery individuals do not

> process carbs the same way a naturally thin person does. In other words

> even though a protein and a carb have the same number of calories, if I eat

> a gram of protein I derive more benefit and am less likely to store it as

> fat than if I eat a gram of carbs. Also unused carbs are converted to

> glycogen which (in my opinion) our empty fat cells are sitting about

> greedily waiting to fill up with. If I overate carbs it IMMEDIATELY used to

> show up on the scale where as if I ate protein to my heart's content I

> maintained or even lost weight. Now that I am very physically active I am

> able to eat carbs without the weight gain consequences but that is because

> my metabolism is running at a much higher speed since I am weight training.

> >

> >Calorie intake probably does come into play because for the majority of

> us-when we eat protein we fill up quicker than we do with carbs and stay

> satiated longer so I think we eat fewer calories. But there are some real

> absorption and metabolic changes that occur with this surgery that affect us

> greatly. Bob and I have extreme distals(8+ feet bypassed) with BPDs (same

> doctor)and therefore we process our nutrients and calories differently than

> you probably do with a proximal. Our doctor tells us constantly to cut the

> carbs and those of us that do lose weight and those of us that

> don't...don't.

> >I am a firm believer that all calories are no longer created equal after my

> surgery.

> >Betty D.

> >RNY 03/02/98 -145 lbs

[Guest guest]

Sue,

While I agree that 2200 calories is way to much for

any female to take in (especially with this surgery),

I don't think that it is a simple as a calorie is a

calorie.

They are processed differently... fat, protein, carbs.

Protein calories are processed far more efficiently

than fats and Carbs can give you a false enegrgy and

then really make you tired.. or even give you intense

feelings of hunger as soon as they are processed

Melinda

--- Sue Rudnicki wrote:

>

>

> >

> >> I eat about 2500 calories a day with 40 - 50

> grams of

> carbs (160 - 200 calories). I also take specially

> prepared

> vitamins (we have a nutritionist working with our

> surgeon)

> that replaces everything that is not absorbed.

> >>

> >> Try it. It will work.

> >>

> >> BobA

> >>

>

>

>

> Please . . . No offense is intended Bob, but a

> calorie is a

> calorie...

>

> I have to agree here and I do not mean to insult,

> flame, be

> rude or anything - if this is working for you I

> appauld you

> but for a 5ft. tall woman there is no way she could

> consume

> 2500 calories and lose weight.

> I didn't consume that much pre-op [which many would

> not

> believe] but with hypothyroidism and simply

> consuming the

> wrong foods [sugars] all the time.........

> I know my intake is closer to 1100 calories and i am

> currently losing only 1-3 pounds a month and I think

> from

> the folks i have talked too that this is more common

> for a

> woman. I always said if I was just 6 ft tall I

> wouldn't have

> been fat.

> sue

>

>

>

<HR>

>

=====

[Guest guest]

De,

Its not so much a male vs female thing as it is the type of WLS surgery we have

had. I had a very distal RNY (really a Biliopancreatic Diversion) with the

removal of 85-90% of the stomach and more than 8 feet of the small intestine

bypassed. Our surgeon leaves a larger stomach so we can still enjoy eating. What

is different is that I have a lot of malabsorbtion. I eat about 60% of my

calories from fat, 10% from carbs and the rest from Protein. My Protein level is

6.2 which my nutritionist and Dr. fell is fine. My Cholesteral is 118 and my

triglycerides are 73. My Hdl ratio is 2.5. That's all very very good,

considering that my triglycerides were off the charts before surgery. I am in

better shape now than in all of my 55 years and I still eat 2,500 calories and a

lot of protein and fat and few carbs. No more diabetes, sleep apnea, high blood

pressure, gout, swelling legs and sore knees!

I have been bringing in a few more carbs recently since I really don't want to

lose much more weight (I've lost over 200 pounds). The best part is that it is

now all within my control. That is a new experience for me. Not that I don't

make some of the same old mistakes I used to make. I do. There are many times

that I take that one bite too much and pay the price. Or, I eat too fast and

don't chew enough or drink too much liquid too soon before or after eating. What

is relly diferent is the degree to which I make mistakes. They are fewer and

less severe than before surgery, but it is still a daily struggle, but one that

I am winning.

BobA

[Guest guest]

I know that if I came anywhere NEAR 2500 calories a day (that's how much Bob

stated He ate...grr..I hate Men <g>) I would gain back every ounce I've lost

and then some..like Sue,I doubt I ate that much pre op..I had hypothyroidism

that wasn't discovered till I was post op..and I ate the wrong kinds of

food..but...2500 calories?..NO WAY, NO HOW I don't care what kind of

calorie it is...the last time I actually figured it out, I was consuming

around 1500 and maintaining my loss...when I was in my loosing stage, I ate

around 1000 calories a day. I don't understand why men can eat differently

than women and still loose faster..I think it stinks..lol..but, it's a fact

of life..and one we've had to live with forever...

De

Proximal RNY August 15, 1997

Beginning wt 308

Ending wt 114

height 5 ft 1 inch Age 45

194 pounds of ugly FAT gone forever

Re: Weight Gain after WLS

>

>

>Sue,

>

>While I agree that 2200 calories is way to much for

>any female to take in (especially with this surgery),

>I don't think that it is a simple as a calorie is a

>calorie.

>

>They are processed differently... fat, protein, carbs.

>Protein calories are processed far more efficiently

>than fats and Carbs can give you a false enegrgy and

>then really make you tired.. or even give you intense

>feelings of hunger as soon as they are processed

>

>Melinda

>

>--- Sue Rudnicki wrote:

>>

>>

>> >

>> >> I eat about 2500 calories a day with 40 - 50

>> grams of

>> carbs (160 - 200 calories). I also take specially

>> prepared

>> vitamins (we have a nutritionist working with our

>> surgeon)

>> that replaces everything that is not absorbed.

>> >>

>> >> Try it. It will work.

>> >>

>> >> BobA

>> >>

>>

>>

>>

>> Please . . . No offense is intended Bob, but a

>> calorie is a

>> calorie...

>>

>> I have to agree here and I do not mean to insult,

>> flame, be

>> rude or anything - if this is working for you I

>> appauld you

>> but for a 5ft. tall woman there is no way she could

>> consume

>> 2500 calories and lose weight.

>> I didn't consume that much pre-op [which many would

>> not

>> believe] but with hypothyroidism and simply

>> consuming the

>> wrong foods [sugars] all the time.........

>> I know my intake is closer to 1100 calories and i am

>> currently losing only 1-3 pounds a month and I think

>> from

>> the folks i have talked too that this is more common

>> for a

>> woman. I always said if I was just 6 ft tall I

>> wouldn't have

>> been fat.

>> sue

>>

>>

>>

><HR>

>

>>

>

>

>=====

>

>>