Guest guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Share Posted June 4, 2002 Hi , welcome to the list. It is a wonderful place for information and support. I have to say that we have all gone through the ups and downs. They tell me my daughter (now 6, profound loss in the right ear, moderate/severe loss in the left) was " just born that way. " I have my doubts. The infections started at 4 mos and lasted until her first set of tubes at 11 mos. We tried every antibiotic available at the time. (I wish I had also known what I know now!!!) They finally just said, " there really isn't another drug we can give her, so let's do the tubes " DUH! I believe in my heart that she was not born with a loss. But, it's irrelevant now. I went through a period of grief. You aren't sounding petty!! I grieved for what my daughter didn't have: normal hearing. It's something we take for granted, and she didn't have it. I thought about all the things that would be more difficult for her. No one wants their child to have to struggle or be " different " . But you know what?? My daughter is stronger than I ever thought possible. Her hearing loss is just another part of her. She puts on her hearing aid like most put on their glasses in the morning. She is a funny, bright little girl who just happens to have a hearing loss. She is even learning to tell people why she wears a hearing aid. I know I'm probably rambling, and I'm sorry, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone!! Jill Mom to Karly 9, Cassidy 6 HOH, and 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Share Posted June 4, 2002 > Hi. I just joined this group and I am really looking forward to > learning and getting advice here. > > My son is 3 years and two months old. He has just been " diagnosed " > with moderate-severe hearing loss..... > 1. Do any of you relate to this? Have your children just suddenly > lost their hearing for no real reason? , My daughter Terra lost her hearing to meningitis at age 2 yrs. 4 mos. The reason was clear, but there was a misdiagnosis involved, so I went through a lot of blaming the ER doc and others. (I still do.) She has a profound loss in her right ear and mod-profound in her left. > 2. When your child was diagnosed did any of you go through a range > of emotions? Absolutely! I was so glad she was alive, but angry at the medical system, devastated at what she was missing and couldn't understand, not sure how to proceed next, not sure if she would be a signing or speaking child. Luckily, I met a lot of very helpful people who gave me an idea of what to expect. The local audiologist introduced me to the school district's teacher of the deaf who invited us to visit her class (even though we were moving out of the area!) where we met a kindergartener with a similar loss to Terra's and were able to see how she was functioning in a mainstream setting. We found a great pediatric audiologist in Seattle after we moved, and of course lists like this one have helped a lot. The professionals in your area can make a huge difference, hopefully for the better. He is seeing the ENT specialist and getting > hearing aids next Thursday. It sounds like he will probably do well with the aids. Kids who are born with typical hearing and have a chance to develop language " normally " can do extremely well once they are aided, as long as they receive the other services they may need (FM system for school, speech therapy, etc.). Terra is atypical of the other deaf/HOH kids in our district in that she does not have a significant language delay at this time (her main delay is articulation, although comprehension is always an issue to consider). I am working hard to keep it that way. > it's silly but I'm having a hard time seeing him with the hearing > aids. Please don't think I'm petty. I know someday it will be just > like wearing socks, but right now it's just happening so fast. We had a 4-month delay getting Terra aided because we were relocating. It was a very frustrating time for both of us. She had a major increase in behavior problems (she's always been a really good kid) during that time - they all but disappeared after she could relate to the world around her again. It still isn't as easy as socks in the morning - it seems like we're always needing a new earmold or having problems with ear infections (she has tubes also), but she sees her aids as a normal part of her everyday life. Seeing how happy she is to be able to hear makes it much easier for me. > 3. Since this is so new to me...what steps do I take now..schools, > therapy, sport activities, music... There are people on this list who can give you much better advice regarding schools than I can. (I actually utilize the district's services very little - Terra is almost 4 and I am planning to homeschool her.) I did check out several programs in our area, none of which seemed appropriate because Terra's (verbal) language skills were beyond most of the other children's in the oral settings at that time, and she didn't have the signing skills for an ASL setting. (Again, the benefit of typical hearing for a few years, but it does make you feel kind of " left out " when you start talking to professionals who want to help.) Terra has had no problem with physical activities and her aid, although it does tend to feed back more when she gets hot and sweaty. Swimming and water are an issue since the aids can't get wet, but we cope. She has enough hearing that I can get most ideas across by talking right into her good ear when she's swimming/bathing. Sounds like you should be able to do something similar with . (Pointing works wonders, and you'd be surprised how well a 3-yr-old can read lips!) Terra loves music, but does better with live voices/instruments rather than recorded. We haven't experimented with telecoil devices yet, so that may help when she's older. The hardest part has been discovering which things she can't hear, even with her aids (most birds due to her high frequency loss, for instance). It breaks my heart sometimes. It's an adjustment - a major one, but there are tons of people on this list who can help make it feel less overwhelming. Let us know how does with his new hearing aids - and how you're doing. Good luck to you. -Chryste Mom to Terra, 3-1/2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Share Posted June 4, 2002 Welcome to the list; not a club you wanted to join, but glad you found us! > >I guess what I really want to know first is: > >1. Do any of you relate to this? Have your children just suddenly >lost their hearing for no real reason? I just can't help but feel >that the ear infections or 5 rounds of antibiotics or not seeing an >ENT for four months had something to do with it. Your >thoughts/experiences?? My son was born HOH, so my situation is a bit different. > >2. When your child was diagnosed did any of you go through a range >of emotions? I feel so sad at times and I just cry and cry. But I >KNOW there are so many worse things that could happen and this isn't >that big a deal. And then I feel sad again. (I'm RARELY sad so this >has been difficult). He is seeing the ENT specialist and getting >hearing aids next Thursday. I just am not ready for that. I know >it's silly but I'm having a hard time seeing him with the hearing >aids. Please don't think I'm petty. I know someday it will be just >like wearing socks, but right now it's just happening so fast. For the first month after his diagnosis was confirmed, I think I cried every day. Every time my husband tried to talk to me about it, I burst into tears. And seeing those HUGE hearing aids on those tiny ears...yes, they're now almost like socks, and I don't even see them anymore. He's a pretty typical kid in every way. > > >3. Since this is so new to me...what steps do I take now..schools, >therapy, sport activities, music... As far as schools and therapy, check out the book " Choices in Deafness " by Sue Schwartz. Decide how you want him to communicate, and then educate yourself as much as you can. As for sports activities, music, etc., just follow his lead, and let him do the things he likes to do. >I am so sorry this is so long. I'm just getting it all out there. >You can reply here or email me. > >Thanks so much. I am really hoping to gain some knowlegde and maybe >some hope here. > > Heissler Good luck! Stefanie mom to Ben, 3.9 years, severe HOH > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2002 Report Share Posted June 4, 2002 , Wow what a story. Welcome to the group. My daughter is Hayley; she is almost 10 and signs. She too had ear infections and when we first suspected hearing loss around 2, the ENT thought that mild hearing loss was in order due to many ear infections. But, her loss was severe, so not sure what happened. LISTEN! Your son can do anything he wants to do as far as sports! He might have to learn it differently, but there is no reason why he can't bike, swim, play football, do taekwando. I know the others are writing about education systems and stuff. You need to contact your school district special ed to make sure you get speech therapy and early intervention with your son. However, with your story, I also think you should document asap everything that went on leading to the hearing loss and call an attorney. Although the regular Ped is supportive, it is better for you to get your own advocate. Where do you live? Good luck > >Reply-To: Listen-Up >To: Listen-Up >Subject: Just Joined...HI >Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 02:04:13 -0000 > >Hi. I just joined this group and I am really looking forward to >learning and getting advice here. > >My son is 3 years and two months old. He has just been " diagnosed " >with moderate-severe hearing loss. I guess I'll give you the whole >version...which may be long. Sorry. was in perfect health up >till January. He had a couple ear infections and a bad cold in his >life but nothing extraordinary. In January he had a cough/cold on >the 15th. He couldn't hear well on the 18th. We took him to a Ped. >(Our ped. was on maternity leave). They said he had a double ear >infection. This ear infection lasted four months. The Ped. rarely >saw him...just gave a new/different prescription over the phone. (Oh >if I only had known) By mid-March couldn't hear at all. I was >yelling at him and he was taking my face and putting it up to his >ear. This ped said that was common and could last up to a year. My >Ped. came back the third week of March. She looked in his ears and >said " Oh my God " (NOT what you want to hear). She gave him a shot >and the ears cleared up for two weeks. He could hear better and >everything. After the two weeks, it was back. She sent us to an ENT >and we got tubes. The ENT said may be sensitive to sound after >the tubes. WRONG! He still couldn't hear. Two weeks after the >tubes we are told he had sensorineural moderate-severe hearing loss >in both ears and it was permenant. They said they don't really know >how/why it happened. That was the end of April. We've been to an >ENT Pediatric specialist who is willing to try different >things...just in case...But basically we are looking at hearing aids >and all that stuff. >The kicker is...my Ped told me last week that the other ped has been >let go and not recommended to practice. HELLO!! She told me that if >there is ANY little thing that they could have done differently to >let her know and they will assume full responsibililty. Yikes. >I have so many questions/concerns/emotions. I don't really know >where to begin. > >I guess what I really want to know first is: > >1. Do any of you relate to this? Have your children just suddenly >lost their hearing for no real reason? I just can't help but feel >that the ear infections or 5 rounds of antibiotics or not seeing an >ENT for four months had something to do with it. Your >thoughts/experiences?? > >2. When your child was diagnosed did any of you go through a range >of emotions? I feel so sad at times and I just cry and cry. But I >KNOW there are so many worse things that could happen and this isn't >that big a deal. And then I feel sad again. (I'm RARELY sad so this >has been difficult). He is seeing the ENT specialist and getting >hearing aids next Thursday. I just am not ready for that. I know >it's silly but I'm having a hard time seeing him with the hearing >aids. Please don't think I'm petty. I know someday it will be just >like wearing socks, but right now it's just happening so fast. > > >3. Since this is so new to me...what steps do I take now..schools, >therapy, sport activities, music... > >I am so sorry this is so long. I'm just getting it all out there. >You can reply here or email me. > >Thanks so much. I am really hoping to gain some knowlegde and maybe >some hope here. > > Heissler > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2002 Report Share Posted June 5, 2002 Swimming and water are an issue since the aids can't get wet, > Just to let you know there are water-resistant and water-proof hearing aids (Lotos and Rion HB54, respectively). We have one Rion hearing aid for our son and tried it on him in the bath and it seems fine (only water, no shampoo). We are going on a beach holiday for 10 days, so he'll get to try it in the sea and the swimming/paddling pools. Dominic is profoundly deaf and the Rion isn't as powerful as his Phonak Novo Forte usual hearing aids, but some hearing is better than no hearing while in the water. He's only 2;7 so he won't be putting his head under the water, so i hope the aids will be OK for that. Cristina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2002 Report Share Posted June 5, 2002 Hi , Just wanted to let you know you are NOT alone here. I think I can speak for quite a few and say we have all been through it. Mark was diagnosed age 5. Up until that point I took him to several ENT specialists; nothing wrong they said. The one pediatrician I had, that I feel rage to this day, was concentrating on his brother that was 3 years old and telling me she felt there was problems because he was coloring papers in daycare all black; some deep underlying problem I guess. Then she was telling me to go back to work, I would be a better mom. Instead of telling me why Mark had 16 ear infections in 8 months and doing something about it! Well, wonder woman moved and I am glad. It is very scary; you will get through this however. There are still twinges there all the time. Mark will be going to high school in the fall and I am more scared than he is. Hang in there. Debbie Just Joined...HI > Hi. I just joined this group and I am really looking forward to > learning and getting advice here. > > My son is 3 years and two months old. He has just been " diagnosed " > with moderate-severe hearing loss. I guess I'll give you the whole > version...which may be long. Sorry. was in perfect health up > till January. He had a couple ear infections and a bad cold in his > life but nothing extraordinary. In January he had a cough/cold on > the 15th. He couldn't hear well on the 18th. We took him to a Ped. > (Our ped. was on maternity leave). They said he had a double ear > infection. This ear infection lasted four months. The Ped. rarely > saw him...just gave a new/different prescription over the phone. (Oh > if I only had known) By mid-March couldn't hear at all. I was > yelling at him and he was taking my face and putting it up to his > ear. This ped said that was common and could last up to a year. My > Ped. came back the third week of March. She looked in his ears and > said " Oh my God " (NOT what you want to hear). She gave him a shot > and the ears cleared up for two weeks. He could hear better and > everything. After the two weeks, it was back. She sent us to an ENT > and we got tubes. The ENT said may be sensitive to sound after > the tubes. WRONG! He still couldn't hear. Two weeks after the > tubes we are told he had sensorineural moderate-severe hearing loss > in both ears and it was permenant. They said they don't really know > how/why it happened. That was the end of April. We've been to an > ENT Pediatric specialist who is willing to try different > things...just in case...But basically we are looking at hearing aids > and all that stuff. > The kicker is...my Ped told me last week that the other ped has been > let go and not recommended to practice. HELLO!! She told me that if > there is ANY little thing that they could have done differently to > let her know and they will assume full responsibililty. Yikes. > I have so many questions/concerns/emotions. I don't really know > where to begin. > > I guess what I really want to know first is: > > 1. Do any of you relate to this? Have your children just suddenly > lost their hearing for no real reason? I just can't help but feel > that the ear infections or 5 rounds of antibiotics or not seeing an > ENT for four months had something to do with it. Your > thoughts/experiences?? > > 2. When your child was diagnosed did any of you go through a range > of emotions? I feel so sad at times and I just cry and cry. But I > KNOW there are so many worse things that could happen and this isn't > that big a deal. And then I feel sad again. (I'm RARELY sad so this > has been difficult). He is seeing the ENT specialist and getting > hearing aids next Thursday. I just am not ready for that. I know > it's silly but I'm having a hard time seeing him with the hearing > aids. Please don't think I'm petty. I know someday it will be just > like wearing socks, but right now it's just happening so fast. > > > 3. Since this is so new to me...what steps do I take now..schools, > therapy, sport activities, music... > > I am so sorry this is so long. I'm just getting it all out there. > You can reply here or email me. > > Thanks so much. I am really hoping to gain some knowlegde and maybe > some hope here. > > Heissler > > > > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2002 Report Share Posted June 5, 2002 Hi and welcome! Firstly, you do not need to apologise for the length of your message. We are all here because we want to share your experience, offer support and sometimes advice. We have all been or are on an emotional rollercoaster as far as our kids' hearing loss is concerned. You'll have good days and bad days, and one thing that helped me cope early on when (18 months, moderate loss)was constantly pulling her aids out all day, was words my husband said to me. He said, if you're having a bad day, just say " Today we're having a bad day " . It helped me realise that today is just one day, tomorrow could be better and stopped me getting totally overwhelmed with everything. Another thing that has helped me cope is watching treat her hearing aids as part of the daily routine. Maybe things will change when she is older, but for now, they are just another thing she wears each day, like clothes. She got her hearing aids at 12 months and only 4 months later started keeping them in most of the day. I am so proud of her and know that she will be fine. We worry so much as parents how our kids will cope with being different etc., but in reality I think they cope with it all much better than we do! If your attitude towards it is positive and supportive, then your child will pick up on this and cope well with it too. Good luck with it all and keep us posted on how you are getting on. Regards, Kerryn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2002 Report Share Posted June 5, 2002 Hi . Welcome!!! We're glad you found us. > 1. Do any of you relate to this? Have your children just suddenly > lost their hearing for no real reason? I just can't help but feel > that the ear infections or 5 rounds of antibiotics or not seeing an > ENT for four months had something to do with it. Your > thoughts/experiences?? It may have, and again it may not have. Our son, I know was born with a hearing loss because I knew something was going on when he was 6 months old. For example, the only time my son ever reacted to my voice was when he was laying on my chest, etc. He also had a string of ear infections for about a year, with 30 days between infections being the longest period (I think that was once), but with the average being 7-10 days. Because the peds always attributed any lack of hearing response on the infections, he wasn't diagnosed till he was 18 months old. I honestly can't say if the ear infections added to his hearing loss or not. > 2. When your child was diagnosed did any of you go through a range > of emotions? You better believe it. Still do from time to time and my son is 15 years old. But, those times get fewer and fewer. > I > KNOW there are so many worse things that could happen and this isn't > that big a deal. And then I feel sad again. The thing that helped me the most in getting through this period is reading Welcome to Holland http://www.listen-up.org/edu/holland.htm It helps because it kind of gives you another way to look at things. > He is seeing the ENT specialist and getting > hearing aids next Thursday. I just am not ready for that. Have they taken earmold impressions yet? If not, then it will be a couple more weeks before your son is actually wearing the hearing aids. No, it's not an easy thing to accept - I too cried for about the first week after our son started wearing them. For me, what helped was noticing how much they helped him. Just know that most in this group have gone through the same thing, have felt what you feel now, and worked through it. It may not make things easier, but do know that we're here for you if you need us, even if it's only a shoulder to cry on. In our hearts, as we read your messages, know that in our hearts we're sitting by your side holding your hand and feeling your grief. And make no mistake about it, you are feeling just as much grief as if you lost a family member, because you've lost something very near and dear to you. You've lost the dream you had for your child and his future. Slowly you'll begin to develop a new dream. It may help to know that there are those of us here with grown up children, or older children (my son is 15 now), who can assure you that your child can do well and achieve great things. Just take a look at how many names are on my Role Models page, and their achievements. Many you've heard of, but some you might not have even realized they wear hearing aids (a good example is Tom Ridge-head of homeland security). http://www.listen-up.org/htm/rolemodl.htm Not only that, but his childhood can still be filled with happiness and laughter. Here is a picture of my son with one of his doctors: http://www.listen-up.org/saci/images/pix/3.jpg You see that smile on his face? It's real and it's there more times than not. In fact, it's even bigger than that because he got his braces off a week ago. If I had to describe him with 5 adjectives I'd pick: Happy, Self-Assured, Friendly, Confident, and Outgoing. Hugs, Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2002 Report Share Posted June 5, 2002 Hi and welcome!! #1: Yes I can relate! My daughter was diagnosed at age 6 and it about floored us. She didn't lose it all at once but a little at a time... But I can tell you that our " experts " have all roundly agreed that ear infections - treated or not - were not the problem. Most knowledgable ENTs can tell this just by looking at the type and extent of loss your son has. I have three other hearing children who had ear infection upon ear infection -- tubes, fluid, antibiotics -- I'm an expert at that whole routine. But none of them suffer from hearing loss. Finally, my first thought after my daughter's diagnosis was " this must be because of all her ear infections " -- and the answer came back again and again that this wasn't the case. I may be wrong but I think permanent damage by ear infections tends to primarily affect only one ear -- or the loss in one ear is significantly worse than the other. But I am certainly no expert, the ENT should be able to tell though. If no one has mentioned it, you should also check into various types of genetic and medical testing to rule out other causes of hearing loss -- here again, the ENT should be able to direct you. > 1. Do any of you relate to this? Have your children just suddenly > lost their hearing for no real reason? I just can't help but feel > that the ear infections or 5 rounds of antibiotics or not seeing an > ENT for four months had something to do with it. Your > thoughts/experiences?? #2: Oh, yeah -- and it is totally normal. I'm about the cheeriest, most optimistic person there is... and this can really get me down sometimes. I cried and cried and cried. My hubby was mad at the whole world -- everyone reacts differently. I went through the " what did *I* do wrong? " process -- maybe I shouldn't have done this or that, maybe I missed something, this must be because I had the flu when I was pregnant, etc. etc. Ugh! It's been 3 1/2 years since we found out and, yeah, sometimes I still cry. (Although there may be a curious connection to PMS with these bouts of tears! More and more, it just *is*. About the aids, my daughter is aided and her schoolmates, teachers, family, etc. have just become blind to them. Just like the friend who wears glasses -- you don't see the glasses, you see the friend. And kids are funny -- they tend to pick out the most blindingly, bright, colorful aids/molds they can get their hands on. My daughter sees them as a type of accessory...so the colors must match her wardrobe of the moment. > 2. When your child was diagnosed did any of you go through a range > of emotions? I feel so sad at times and I just cry and cry. But I > KNOW there are so many worse things that could happen and this isn't > that big a deal. And then I feel sad again. (I'm RARELY sad so this > has been difficult). He is seeing the ENT specialist and getting > hearing aids next Thursday. I just am not ready for that. I know > it's silly but I'm having a hard time seeing him with the hearing > aids. Please don't think I'm petty. I know someday it will be just > like wearing socks, but right now it's just happening so fast. #3: I can't answer this one for you because you know your son best. Yes, anything he is interested in...sports, music, etc. -- go for it!! My daughter is convinced she is going to be an actress...and hey, why not?! > 3. Since this is so new to me...what steps do I take now..schools, > therapy, sport activities, music... > Thanks so much. I am really hoping to gain some knowlegde and maybe > some hope here. Yep. There is definitely hope. You will come out on the other side of the initial sadness. Some days, I'm even thankful for my daughter's loss -- it gives her such individuality. Does that make sense? She is definitely special and the grace and poise with which she handles herself humbles me. Hang in there and I'll glad you've joined! Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2002 Report Share Posted June 5, 2002 Oh my gosh, Kay what a fine looking boy! Re: Just Joined...HI > Hi . Welcome!!! We're glad you found us. > > > 1. Do any of you relate to this? Have your children just suddenly > > lost their hearing for no real reason? I just can't help but feel > > that the ear infections or 5 rounds of antibiotics or not seeing an > > ENT for four months had something to do with it. Your > > thoughts/experiences?? > > It may have, and again it may not have. Our son, I know was born with a > hearing loss because I knew something was going on when he was 6 months old. > For example, the only time my son ever reacted to my voice was when he was > laying on my chest, etc. He also had a string of ear infections for about a > year, with 30 days between infections being the longest period (I think that > was once), but with the average being 7-10 days. Because the peds always > attributed any lack of hearing response on the infections, he wasn't > diagnosed till he was 18 months old. I honestly can't say if the ear > infections added to his hearing loss or not. > > > 2. When your child was diagnosed did any of you go through a range > > of emotions? > > You better believe it. Still do from time to time and my son is 15 years > old. But, those times get fewer and fewer. > > > I > > KNOW there are so many worse things that could happen and this isn't > > that big a deal. And then I feel sad again. > > The thing that helped me the most in getting through this period is reading > Welcome to Holland > http://www.listen-up.org/edu/holland.htm > It helps because it kind of gives you another way to look at things. > > > He is seeing the ENT specialist and getting > > hearing aids next Thursday. I just am not ready for that. > > Have they taken earmold impressions yet? If not, then it will be a couple > more weeks before your son is actually wearing the hearing aids. No, it's > not an easy thing to accept - I too cried for about the first week after our > son started wearing them. For me, what helped was noticing how much they > helped him. Just know that most in this group have gone through the same > thing, have felt what you feel now, and worked through it. It may not make > things easier, but do know that we're here for you if you need us, even if > it's only a shoulder to cry on. In our hearts, as we read your messages, > know that in our hearts we're sitting by your side holding your hand and > feeling your grief. > > And make no mistake about it, you are feeling just as much grief as if you > lost a family member, because you've lost something very near and dear to > you. You've lost the dream you had for your child and his future. Slowly > you'll begin to develop a new dream. It may help to know that there are > those of us here with grown up children, or older children (my son is 15 > now), who can assure you that your child can do well and achieve great > things. Just take a look at how many names are on my Role Models page, and > their achievements. Many you've heard of, but some you might not have even > realized they wear hearing aids (a good example is Tom Ridge-head of > homeland security). > http://www.listen-up.org/htm/rolemodl.htm > > Not only that, but his childhood can still be filled with happiness and > laughter. > > Here is a picture of my son with one of his doctors: > http://www.listen-up.org/saci/images/pix/3.jpg > You see that smile on his face? It's real and it's there more times than > not. In fact, it's even bigger than that because he got his braces off a > week ago. > > If I had to describe him with 5 adjectives I'd pick: Happy, Self-Assured, > Friendly, Confident, and Outgoing. > > Hugs, > Kay > > > > All messages posted to this list are private and confidential. Each post is the intellectual property of the author and therefore subject to copyright restrictions. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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