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Re: Did you feel older than nada as a kid?

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(((((()))))))

I understand, I think: what you are experiencing in your gradual revealings to

yourself of what you truly did experience is intense and raw, and it must feel

like an open abraded wound. I got the impression on my own that even the parts

you share with us here might be censored or bowdlerized. I understand the need

to do that, or feeling that you must do that. I haven't shared the worst things

that my nada did to me either; its too personal, intense and even shameful for

me at this point, and triggering.

So, as far as I'm concerned, " no harm, no foul. "

I do admire your writing ability, though, very much; its a real talent to write

so well and movingly as you do.

-Annie

>

> It's taken me a week (but) thank you Annie,,Suzy,Leanne,and Ashana for

your replies.This has been a major realization and it has been extremely

difficult to deal with.It's an awareness that I repressed growing up and for all

this time since--and as it's come to the surface I have repeatedly felt like it

was my fault.If I had never existed at all,as me,none of this would have

happened to me.

>

> I don't want to put a positive spin on it right now.I want to face it as

it is.I honestly don't know what to say,much,because I feel like the truth of

what I'm really feeling would be too burdensome to others.I don't want to say

anything that might imply a negation of the good intentions towards me that all

of you expressed.I know that all of you meant well.

>

> I don't think that writing a memoir or an autobiography is going to be

helpful in my case.I spend my life,all the f*cking time,censoring myself--and if

I wrote my " story " ,it would be to really tell it.Not to censor any of it.There

are ethical considerations to take into account here,such as the effect that

anything I write might have on my childhood friend E's family.If I included the

part about K--a major incident of almost being murdered--I couldn't very well do

that without mentioning E.There are also,I suppose,legal issues which I assume a

publisher--if I could even write it well enough to interest one--might not want

to touch.I would be making some very serious allegations,which although

true,haven't been proved in a formal court of law.I was gang raped repeatedly

from the ages of 5-8 by several teenaged boys, " friends " of my teenaged

babysitter who was also victimized by them.I read on the website of Marilyn Van

Derbur,who wrote the incest memoir " Miss America by Day " that the most " common "

sex abuse is actually perpetrated by teenaged boys in some kind of babysitting

scenario--and here I was thinking that my experience was freakish and bizarre

when in fact it's the most commonly reported kind...but these would still be

serious allegations and I have no idea how the individuals involved would react

if they knew of them.I was told at the time that they'd set my house on fire if

I told--and indeed one of them later did time in prison for arson: he set his

girlfriend's house on fire when she dumped him.There is also the matter of my

sixth grade teacher who molested me--I looked him up and he is retired and has a

wife and two daughters near my age.I don't need to hear them defending him.My

entire FOO would vilify me,too,for writing such a book.I would have lots of

people attacking me over it.I don't see how healing that would be.I also don't

see how writing out such a relentlessly dark and depressing tale would help

anyone.I think most people would get halfway through it and throw it against the

wall.

>

> I just want to exist.To try to exist.To try to survive.For that to be

enough--that I am worthy of at least that.Without having to have my existence

used for the benefit of others.I feel like all I've ever been worth is what

other people can use of me and how they can use me.My pain exists in and of

itself.

>

> I would be glad if my therapist wrote about me as a case study or case

history if that would help other clinicians to treat the people who come to them

for help.But writing my history for publication myself has way way way too much

threat of potential harm in it,for me and for some of the good people involved.

>

> I just want to be and to feel safe.That is my priority right now.

>

> That is how I honestly feel.I appreciate everyone's good intentions and

please don't think that I don't.This is just more serious and there are no easy

solutions.I have to deal with it for what it is.

>

> I have avoided responding to your replies because I just don't know how

to say what I feel without coming off as whining or pointlessly despairing or

seeming to not appreciate the goodwill all of you expressed to me.

>

> It's going to take me some time before I learn how to deal with my

reality without being very upset by it and all of its implications.

>

> I wish I was beyond this point already but I'm just not.And if I

sound angry,please know that it's not with any of you,but with circumstance.

>

>

>

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Annie,thank you so much for your understanding.It means more to me than I can

say.I seem to be a ridiculously slow learner in terms of learning how to state

my own case/express my honest feelings without worrying that I must sound like a

nasty castigating b*tch or a ranting lunatic.

What continues to afflict me most constantly is the feeling that my

experiences have cast me beyond the pale of regular human society and that I am

utterly alone in the universe.I can rationally say for various reasons that this

isn't so but that only reminds me that it isn't how I really feel.I am still too

often assaulted by flashbacks,by traumas I haven't yet integrated--and I appear

outwardly to be functioning because I just don't tell others what is really

going on in my head.In many ways I *am* functioning,but alot of that is how I

learned to compensate for the near constant onslaught of associations to

traumatic memories...it's like my capacities co-exist with my incapacity,which I

can't readily share with others...the world sees and wants to see my

capacity...and I am told by others that I have this and that potential/that I

could do so much...and I could,if only I could get myself nearer to healing from

my wounds/the incapacity...

I thank you for sharing that the worst things your nada did are too

personal,intense and shameful for you to mention--that helps me to know that we

have reasons for censoring our experience and that taking care of ourselves and

choosing not to be triggered is normal and it is ok to do so.I know that I would

be MASSIVELY triggered,possibly beyond what I can handle,by attempting to

publish my story and having to deal with the fallout if I did.

I think you write exceptionally well yourself.You are very

articulate,lucid and precise in your posts and I always enjoy reading them.I

admire your writing ability,too! I think you also have a story you could

tell,although I don't know if that's what you would want to do.The genre of

memoir writing is open ended and could be about almost anything.

For now,personally,I'm sticking to trying to write fiction.

> >

> > It's taken me a week (but) thank you Annie,,Suzy,Leanne,and Ashana for

your replies.This has been a major realization and it has been extremely

difficult to deal with.It's an awareness that I repressed growing up and for all

this time since--and as it's come to the surface I have repeatedly felt like it

was my fault.If I had never existed at all,as me,none of this would have

happened to me.

> >

> > I don't want to put a positive spin on it right now.I want to face it as

it is.I honestly don't know what to say,much,because I feel like the truth of

what I'm really feeling would be too burdensome to others.I don't want to say

anything that might imply a negation of the good intentions towards me that all

of you expressed.I know that all of you meant well.

> >

> > I don't think that writing a memoir or an autobiography is going to be

helpful in my case.I spend my life,all the f*cking time,censoring myself--and if

I wrote my " story " ,it would be to really tell it.Not to censor any of it.There

are ethical considerations to take into account here,such as the effect that

anything I write might have on my childhood friend E's family.If I included the

part about K--a major incident of almost being murdered--I couldn't very well do

that without mentioning E.There are also,I suppose,legal issues which I assume a

publisher--if I could even write it well enough to interest one--might not want

to touch.I would be making some very serious allegations,which although

true,haven't been proved in a formal court of law.I was gang raped repeatedly

from the ages of 5-8 by several teenaged boys, " friends " of my teenaged

babysitter who was also victimized by them.I read on the website of Marilyn Van

Derbur,who wrote the incest memoir " Miss America by Day " that the most " common "

sex abuse is actually perpetrated by teenaged boys in some kind of babysitting

scenario--and here I was thinking that my experience was freakish and bizarre

when in fact it's the most commonly reported kind...but these would still be

serious allegations and I have no idea how the individuals involved would react

if they knew of them.I was told at the time that they'd set my house on fire if

I told--and indeed one of them later did time in prison for arson: he set his

girlfriend's house on fire when she dumped him.There is also the matter of my

sixth grade teacher who molested me--I looked him up and he is retired and has a

wife and two daughters near my age.I don't need to hear them defending him.My

entire FOO would vilify me,too,for writing such a book.I would have lots of

people attacking me over it.I don't see how healing that would be.I also don't

see how writing out such a relentlessly dark and depressing tale would help

anyone.I think most people would get halfway through it and throw it against the

wall.

> >

> > I just want to exist.To try to exist.To try to survive.For that to be

enough--that I am worthy of at least that.Without having to have my existence

used for the benefit of others.I feel like all I've ever been worth is what

other people can use of me and how they can use me.My pain exists in and of

itself.

> >

> > I would be glad if my therapist wrote about me as a case study or case

history if that would help other clinicians to treat the people who come to them

for help.But writing my history for publication myself has way way way too much

threat of potential harm in it,for me and for some of the good people involved.

> >

> > I just want to be and to feel safe.That is my priority right now.

> >

> > That is how I honestly feel.I appreciate everyone's good intentions

and please don't think that I don't.This is just more serious and there are no

easy solutions.I have to deal with it for what it is.

> >

> > I have avoided responding to your replies because I just don't know

how to say what I feel without coming off as whining or pointlessly despairing

or seeming to not appreciate the goodwill all of you expressed to me.

> >

> > It's going to take me some time before I learn how to deal with my

reality without being very upset by it and all of its implications.

> >

> > I wish I was beyond this point already but I'm just not.And if I

sound angry,please know that it's not with any of you,but with circumstance.

> >

> >

> >

>

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I absolutely have always felt emotionally older than nada. I feel like I was

born 40 and she is about six years old emotionally. She used to run around the

house crying and raging about something she did that she could never tell

anyone. I found out years later what it was, she had an affair and had my

younger sibling as a result. When I look back on how sorry I felt for her, how

I tried to comfort her etc.it makes me mad at her, more disgusted really. I am

a parent now and I would NEVER pull that kind of out of control behavior on a

child. Kids need security and structure-predictability...not mentally

challenged chaos. I still look at nada like an emotional child and she's 70.

>

> A couple of recent topics have reminded me of the surreal feeling I had fairly

often growing up of actually asking myself if I wasn't more " mature " than my own

mother--and asking myself how in the world that could be.It was so weird and

scary to feel that way.I was wondering if anyone else remembers feeling

something like this.

>

> When I was six we were going one day to visit her high school best friend:

nada,me and my brother in the car.We were stopped at a red light out in the

countryside--it was a gorgeous late Spring day and Simon's song

" Kodachrome " was playing on the radio.I was sitting in the back with my brother

enjoying the ride and the day because I always loved going to see this friend of

nada's who was very nice.We didn't get to see her enough,I thought.

>

> Anyway,we were stopped at a red light and a group of young men seemed

(to me) to appear from out of nowhere.They pounded on the car hood and sort of

gathered around the stopped car.I was shocked and very frightened,but nada was

all giggles and she asked them if she could give them " a ride " .

>

> They piled into the car,including in the back seat where my brother and I

kind of got pushed to the side.I put my arms around my brother and held him

close to me because I was scared and to somehow shield him.Nada was giggling

away,asking them questions about where they were going,what were their names,tra

la la,and seemed to be having a ball.

>

> We ended up driving out of our way and I was very relieved when they

got out of the car--they had seemed raucous to me and rude.I was also shaking

with upset and fear.And angry--I was fully aware of feeling angry with nada.

>

> I couldn't help it,she seemed so pleased and non-plussed by the whole

thing,I had to say something.I didn't want her to ever do something like that

again.

>

> I was SIX YEARS OLD and I had to say to a thirty one year old

woman, " How could you be so irresponsible? "

>

> Nada was like,what? What do you mean,how can you be so silly? She

told me lightly, " Oh,D (the best friend we were on the way to see) and I used to

do that all the time in college,pick up hitch hikers and we'd tease them for a

while then drop them off somewhere,it was a riot... "

>

> I had to remind her: " Mom,you're not in college anymore and you have

two small children in the car with you. "

>

> She stopped the car and told me to get out and when I refused,yelled

at me, " I have ONE CHILD in this car with me! You're not a child,I don't know

what you are! You're some kind of demon in a little girl's body,you're NOT a

child.I should just shove you out of the car and leave you here,you know so

much,you'll do just fine all on your own! "

>

> She took off speeding.My brother was now crying and she yelled at

me, " You see what you did! Are you proud of yourself now,you made B cry again?

You've succeeded in ruining this day now for both of us. "

>

> I was left bewildered by the whole thing.How could it be that I knew

she'd done something wrong (and dangerous) and she didn't? Was it really because

there was something horribly abnormal about ME?

>

> And what if she did something like that again and I couldn't stop

her? What if something really bad happened to us?

>

> I decided to " tattle " on her to my grandfather,her father,and I

did.She was very hateful to me after that but she never picked up another

hitchhiker.I also wonder if she was planning on having a big laugh with her

friend over picking up those guys and if things like that are the reason

why,whenever we did see this woman,it was nada going to see her--she very very

rarely ever came to see us.This friend of hers had gotten married and had kids

and grown up and it seemed like nada never did grow up in the same way.Why does

that make me feel so sad?

>

> Does anyone else have an experience like this?

>

>

>

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Thank you,,for the caring thoughts.My reaction of despair is my own fault

for disclosing something on here that on reflection I wasn't really ready to get

feedback on.And opening myself up to being triggered.I appreciate very much you

reaching out to offer support,as I appreciate very much all of the support

everyone tried to offer me.It would have been better not to post until I had a

clearer idea of how I feel myself.I would never want to hurt anyone on here with

my responses because I know that when people take the time to respond their

intentions are good and well meant.

Thanks,

> >

> > It's taken me a week (but) thank you Annie,,Suzy,Leanne,and Ashana for

your replies.This has been a major realization and it has been extremely

difficult to deal with.It's an awareness that I repressed growing up and for all

this time since--and as it's come to the surface I have repeatedly felt like it

was my fault.If I had never existed at all,as me,none of this would have

happened to me.

> >

> > I don't want to put a positive spin on it right now.I want to face it as

it is.I honestly don't know what to say,much,because I feel like the truth of

what I'm really feeling would be too burdensome to others.I don't want to say

anything that might imply a negation of the good intentions towards me that all

of you expressed.I know that all of you meant well.

> >

> > I don't think that writing a memoir or an autobiography is going to be

helpful in my case.I spend my life,all the f*cking time,censoring myself--and if

I wrote my " story " ,it would be to really tell it.Not to censor any of it.There

are ethical considerations to take into account here,such as the effect that

anything I write might have on my childhood friend E's family.If I included the

part about K--a major incident of almost being murdered--I couldn't very well do

that without mentioning E.There are also,I suppose,legal issues which I assume a

publisher--if I could even write it well enough to interest one--might not want

to touch.I would be making some very serious allegations,which although

true,haven't been proved in a formal court of law.I was gang raped repeatedly

from the ages of 5-8 by several teenaged boys, " friends " of my teenaged

babysitter who was also victimized by them.I read on the website of Marilyn Van

Derbur,who wrote the incest memoir " Miss America by Day " that the most " common "

sex abuse is actually perpetrated by teenaged boys in some kind of babysitting

scenario--and here I was thinking that my experience was freakish and bizarre

when in fact it's the most commonly reported kind...but these would still be

serious allegations and I have no idea how the individuals involved would react

if they knew of them.I was told at the time that they'd set my house on fire if

I told--and indeed one of them later did time in prison for arson: he set his

girlfriend's house on fire when she dumped him.There is also the matter of my

sixth grade teacher who molested me--I looked him up and he is retired and has a

wife and two daughters near my age.I don't need to hear them defending him.My

entire FOO would vilify me,too,for writing such a book.I would have lots of

people attacking me over it.I don't see how healing that would be.I also don't

see how writing out such a relentlessly dark and depressing tale would help

anyone.I think most people would get halfway through it and throw it against the

wall.

> >

> > I just want to exist.To try to exist.To try to survive.For that to be

enough--that I am worthy of at least that.Without having to have my existence

used for the benefit of others.I feel like all I've ever been worth is what

other people can use of me and how they can use me.My pain exists in and of

itself.

> >

> > I would be glad if my therapist wrote about me as a case study or case

history if that would help other clinicians to treat the people who come to them

for help.But writing my history for publication myself has way way way too much

threat of potential harm in it,for me and for some of the good people involved.

> >

> > I just want to be and to feel safe.That is my priority right now.

> >

> > That is how I honestly feel.I appreciate everyone's good intentions

and please don't think that I don't.This is just more serious and there are no

easy solutions.I have to deal with it for what it is.

> >

> > I have avoided responding to your replies because I just don't know

how to say what I feel without coming off as whining or pointlessly despairing

or seeming to not appreciate the goodwill all of you expressed to me.

> >

> > It's going to take me some time before I learn how to deal with my

reality without being very upset by it and all of its implications.

> >

> > I wish I was beyond this point already but I'm just not.And if I

sound angry,please know that it's not with any of you,but with circumstance.

> >

> >

> >

>

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you are absolutly right...my nada used to do similar things, and either my

sister or I had to try and comfort nada...I stopped trying when I got in jr high

school..I figured she doesn't comfort me, why should i bother trying to comfort

her?

Jackie

  I absolutely have always felt emotionally older than nada. I feel like I was

born 40 and she is about six years old emotionally. She used to run around the

house crying and raging about something she did that she could never tell

anyone. I found out years later what it was, she had an affair and had my

younger sibling as a result. When I look back on how sorry I felt for her, how I

tried to comfort her etc.it makes me mad at her, more disgusted really. I am a

parent now and I would NEVER pull that kind of out of control behavior on a

child. Kids need security and structure-predictability...not mentally challenged

chaos. I still look at nada like an emotional child and she's 70.

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((((())))),

Everything that you've said makes perfect sense - and it does help to understand

what you are feeling, so I hope you won't hold back on that. You are safe to be

whoever you are here, and to say what you need to without judgement. You could

never come across as " whining or pointlessly despairing or seeming to not

appreciate the goodwill all of you expressed to me " . You hold yourself to

pretty high standards (and I fear I recognize some of my own issues in that.)

Something you said strikes me as the crux of what you're feeling " I just want to

exist. To try to exist. To try to survive. For that to be

enough--that I am worthy of at least that. Without having to have my existence

used for the benefit of others.I feel like all I've ever been worth is what

other people can use of me and how they can use me. My pain exists in and of

itself. " That, and your feeling that " it was my fault. If I had never existed

at all, as me, none of this would have happened to me. "

The latter is such a powerful burden and if I could help to easy you of anything

it would be that belief. There is no way that you can ever truly know the

answer, but let me at least offer you an alternative view. You were by some

miracle born profoundly gifted. Your nada clearly had no capacity to deal with

that (not your fault). You could have been born different in ANY way

(profoundly disabled, or mentally challenged, or musically gifted, or artistic,

or overly active and athletic....) and your nada would not have had the capacity

to deal with it. You could have simply been her target as the firstborn - it is

for certain someone would have been. It just seems that your brother came after

you - and was always going to be under the radar. And I say again that I do

believe that your gift of intelligence is the ONE thing that made the difference

in your survival - and will continue to. By being YOU, you survived, and will

get to a place where you can be whole again. At present, look at your brother,

and look at yourself - and ask who has the chance at a better, healthier life?

Please know that I don't say any of this to negate what your are feeling, or try

to " positive " you out of it. There is no way to put a positive spin on what you

have been through - ever. The positive will come in time, when you reach that

feeling of safety you long for.

The things that have happened to you are fantastically horrible - so much so

that I continue to marvel that you are in ANY way held together. The more you

reveal, the more I understand how it would have been impossible for one person

to handle it all without splintering into different pieces of yourself - or

parsing out the experiences. But -- how to convey this -- while they are

horrible to hear, horrible to believe, those reactions are felt only out of

deeply felt empathy for you. But, finding it hard to hear them, does not equate

to being repelled by your telling of them. [The only thing I want to throw

against the wall is your nada - and for those who molested you, a wall with

spikes...] You've spent your whole life protecting yourself - and others - you

have no need to " protect " us.

I think you have spent a lifetime censoring yourself - you had to with your nada

to survive worse than she already did to you - you were never really allowed to

just be you. Later, you've had to censor to either protect others from the

awful truth, or to protect yourself from opening up wounds you weren't ready to

deal with. From revealing too much of yourself that you weren't ready to reveal.

You've created this wonderful persona who is professionally successful - a

powerhouse that everyone looks to for advice to be their cheerleader, and yet,

who is there doing that for the little girl inside you? (Okay admittedly, maybe

I'm again projecting some of my own issues onto you, but it just feels familiar

to me.) I hope in part that we can be that for you - maybe just a little, when

you are ready.

You have no need to reveal more here than you are comfortable with. You don't

have to feel you are somehow not being " honest " by revealing only parts of the

story. You have no need to censor anything either. Noone here is going to judge

you. I feel I can safely say that everyone wants to support you. One could not

hear any part of your story and not want to reach out and try to comfort you,

encourage you. Sometimes that's going to feel right, other times, not. It's all

okay. You already know the intentions are good.

I still want to encourage you to write your " story. " However, in doing so, my

intention is never to cause you more distress. I encourage it as a way to

unburden the toxic memories within you. Write your story down, ALL of it,

uncensored. Put all those thoughts and feelings down and get them out of you.

For that reason only - to get them out of you in a way that you don't have to

hold anything back. Give yourself that freedom. Then, lock it away someplace

safe and try to visualize that it is OUT of you. Then keep it or destroy it or

whatever. I know it's not as simplistic as that..... but it would be another

step toward healing.

I do believe others would be receptive to your story, and would be deeply

inspired by your very survival - as I am, but I would never encourage you to go

public for that reason alone - or ever, really, for all the reasons you've

stated. You do indeed need to focus on feeling safe, now, and that would

certainly not be a step forward in that direction. I also still want to

encourage you to write in some capacity if you feel the urge to pursue the

creative side of you....but, only if it fulfills something good in you.

Mostly, I just want you to find that place where you feel safe. I know that

noone else can take you there, and you are working so hard to get there on your

own. At the least, I hope you will come to know that you are safe here with us

- just being you. No expectations, just BE.

Suzy

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Hello, . I think the quote you were referring to was one I indeed

shared. My late husband used to say, " The victory is in the journey. " I'm sure

he did not coin the phrase, but I was glad he was wise enough to see the truth

in it and share it.

Your message made me think of my first husband (who is still alive, and that's

all I'll say about that!). ; ] He walked out when the kids were pretty young,

and I remember my best friend talking with me about how she saw his perception

of life. She said that some people think an easy life is the rule, and struggles

are the exception. In fact, she believed (and I agree), that " bumps in the road

are the rule; a smooth path is the exception " . This doesn't mean the bumpy roads

are not worth traveling. They most certainly are. And we can learn to tolerate

and even enjoy the journey amongst the bumps. When the road is smooth and all is

well, we *certainly* enjoy that, knowing that it is a lovely reprieve and meant

for our renewal and preparation for future challenges. (She is still my best

friend, 13 years later - she's a good and wise woman.)

As KOs, our perspectives of such things can get so twisted. I know I tend to

black and white thinking - " It's hard now, and it will only ever get worse! Oh

me oh my! " It takes fortitude and wisdom to learn and hold to a healthier, more

realistic perspective. I see you striving toward this. No one in the world does

it perfectly, but again, " The victory is in the journey. " In fact I sometimes

feel sorry for my ex-husband becs he will not see this victory. He will only

ever see doom and gloom, and there is no victory or joy or reprieve in that. (As

I told someone recently, the best thing that guy ever did was walk out on me!

Well, the best thing he ever did for me anyway...) But having had a fada, of

course I married someone like him. It was almost inevitable for me.

I hope that there is a modicum of safety for you on this board as you feel your

way thru what is appropriate to share and what is not. I do not envy your

position, but I respect your wisdom, determination, and honesty.

, your words to me were so kind and gentle. In truth, I had to leave my

computer for the day and come back to it tonight; it is far too difficult for me

to accept such words, and all the more because I know you were sincere. Thank

you.

Take good care friend,

I just get tired of holding it all together and I've realized that I keep

hoping to find some Shangri-La where I can let it all out.Which is a magical

place that doesn't exist.Only reality frees us from the false hopes and false

strivings that hold us back--ditching an illusion is ultimately liberating,as

painful as it is initially to let it go.I'm on a learning curve,right now in the

particulars of what is best to share or to keep to myself.There is no paradise

of all understanding,at least not on this earthly plane.That's just the way it

is and accepting that leads to more growth.I think you are the one who said

something like it's the journey that counts,in itself.I personally feel like I'm

not living if I'm not learning--and it's the learning,however it happens,that

counts...

>

> You have a nobility of spirit,,that is very special.Thank

you,again,for sharing your kindness with me.That truly does soften the way and I

truly,truly do appreciate it.

>

>

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,

I'm so glad if my words have in any way made sense to you - and if they brought

you a small degree of comfort. That means a lot to me as I feel sometimes that

words are just too inadequate to express how much I admire your strength and

courage within your journey. Just in the short time we've gotten to " know " you,

you've come so far. I really can " see " you evolving, even though you may not

recognize the leaps you are making.

I'm really proud to hear you say " Since I started therapy I've begun to learn

how to accept that I was once in such a psychologically untenable position that

I literally couldn't go it alone.That it's not a sign of my weakness or

weirdness that I created " other people " to stand in for me or be for me and that

I don't need to despise myself for it. " That's huge! I have truly NEVER seen

you as weird in any way - it makes more sense to me that one " person " could NOT

have handled all that you have - hence the need to " parse " it out. That you

would have needed to protect the " feeling " part of you and let others step

forward to " take care of business. " The amazing thing is that your psyche has

such a powerful will to survive that it used whatever means necessary. To my

thinking, your experience is a testament to your strength and will, I see

nothing of weakness in it.

The discussion of persona vs personality is indeed an interesting one. I know it

is way too simplistic, but it seems that both in various presentations are all

parts of ourselves, but the distinction is a matter of whether there is

conscious choice. I would guess that the more " " is present and

received positively (and " you " will be based on what I see!), the more you will

be present. But, I also would like to say that I still see your " other "

personalities as all you. They're all parts of YOU that are handling the things

you need to. No one else is stepping up to take care of things - you are. It

may not be in a way that you wish for, and you may not be in control of how and

when, but it's still you on some level - so you still deserve the credit and

recognition. I know it may feel false to you and I sense you feeling " well, if

you only knew the real me..., " but I can only see that they are all parts of the

" real " you - and deserving. Allow yourself that.

And, this is totally outside my purvue of experience or understanding, so I

don't presume to have a clue what I'm talking about here, but I have to wonder

if the more that you get to know the different parts of you and " their " role in

handling your experiences/feelings -- that once your feelings are faced and

dealt with - they will likely meld into " you " or together naturally- as you

absorb the feelings into you. I'll stop on that, because I feel pretty lame

trying to put it into words.

As for personas, your T. is right in that we all have different ones - we never

really convey 100% of our " true " selves to anyone - not our mate, not our kids,

not our friends, not our coworkers/clients, not our fellow parents, not our

parents, not our acquaintences (heaven help if our kids saw us carrying on for

girls' night out, for example....). There is always a certain amount of

filtering going on, as much for ourselves as for the other person(s) in our

lives. I think that is completely normal. I think it only becomes NOT normal

when any one of them comes in complete conflict with another (and that's

probably why so many of us feel our relationships with our PD parents are so

completely false and just WRONG).

As for what you are specifically dealing with right now, I imagine that it must

be so difficult to begin to finally recognize and absorb the feelings related to

your past experiences - especially given the disparity between the feelings of a

much younger self and the adult you are now. I have only a miniscule inkling of

what that must be like. I have once in my life experienced what I call

" emotional amnesia, " where the experience was traumatic enough for me to shut

down completely - emotionally - although I was not aware I had done so at the

time. I still went through everyday life and appeared to be coping incredibly

well (too well), until about a year later when suddenly all of the emotions

bubbled up and I had a complete time-disconnect between emotion and experience.

I had to deal with the emotions after the fact and it was not easy, but at least

there wasn't a significant age disconnect. So where in your life now do you put

those emotions related to then and your much younger self? I know I can't help

with that, but I hope at least it helps that I think I understand....

I can also see why you are tired of feeling used (or at least having your

giftedness used against you.) As a child, it certainly played a role in why

things were more difficult for you, and your nada reinforced the thought that

you were " difficult " with your teachers - so they didn't look further. Had your

nada actly differently (as a healthy, caring parent would have), your teachers

and/or school might also have - so put this issue back on her. As for the

teachers themselves, I would say let that one go - they're not worth it. They

simply weren't equipped to deal with a child as gifted as you - probably never

had and never will again see someone like you (their loss). It would not have

occurred to them that you had the intelligence or maturity to even form the

thought that you felt used -they probably thought they were doing good to give

your something to do... Their fault, not yours.

With all of your internal struggles, striving for healing, maintaining your

professional life, maintaining your relationships, all the while feeling the

need to protect the world from your " behind the scenes " struggle, it's no wonder

you are tired. It IS a wonder that your spirit does not give up. Your spirit

shines through - so much. I don't see you giving up. You've come too far.

And while there is no place in this real world that you can just let go and let

it all hang out (save writing it down for yourself), I reiterate that I hope you

can feel safe in continuing to share your story here. I so much admire your

courage and grace in doing so, and I thank you for trusting us enough. And you

explain it very well....

And, if you will allow me to interject a tiny bit of humor (well-intentioned, I

promise): I wish your boss/co-workers appreciated just how many people you are

bringing to work with you to do the difficult jobs they don't seem to be able to

- you would surely get a big raise. :) (((((hug)))))

Suzy

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, I haven't been able to read all the posts, but I wanted to say that I

admire your efforts, your desire to learn, to recover, to be happy. I have not

suffered the way you have but I feel learning of your experiences tunes me in on

a deeper level to the suffering of humans and fills my heart with such love. If

you were here in front of me, I would be embarassed to admit it, but it is how I

feel. I feel such joy at people, who like me,  have experienced trauma and

try to figure it out, to make sense of our experiences and share with others,

openly risking ridicule. It gives me courage. I deeply appreciate your sharing.

I think you are just wonderful.

Leanne 

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 2:14:32 AM

Subject: Re: Did you feel older than nada as a kid?

 

,thank you :).I think you must have a truly beautiful soul.I thank you

sincerely for understanding my post in the spirit in which it was intended.I

would like to be able to be more transparent- and honest--somewhere. I do the

" functioning well " gig at work where nobody has the slightest clue of what I'm

struggling with.The professional admiration I receive doesn't go very far in the

way of being healing because it's not based on the true me.Not that any of us

really display our truest selves in the workplace--that wouldn't really be

advisable or appropriate. ..but mine is alot of holding it together when *if* I

was more centered in myself,I could do so much more...my coworkers/boss believe

I could do so much more because they see the ease with which I do what I do but

don't know what's really going on " behind the scenes " so to speak,only I do.

Admittedly,I focus too much on where I do and can function well in my other

relationships too--mostly because I just need a break from despair and all this

hard internal work.I want to be happy! (dammit) I want to have these moments of

pleasantness in my life...but that doesn't make the rest of it go away.And when

I am triggered into dissociating, boy does it clash with how together I seem.And

the ones close to me are a bit aghast.

I just get tired of holding it all together and I've realized that I keep hoping

to find some Shangri-La where I can let it all out.Which is a magical place that

doesn't exist.Only reality frees us from the false hopes and false strivings

that hold us back--ditching an illusion is ultimately liberating,as painful as

it is initially to let it go..I'm on a learning curve,right now in the

particulars of what is best to share or to keep to myself.There is no paradise

of all understanding, at least not on this earthly plane.That's just the way it

is and accepting that leads to more growth.I think you are the one who said

something like it's the journey that counts,in itself.I personally feel like I'm

not living if I'm not learning--and it's the learning,however it happens,that

counts...

You have a nobility of spirit,, that is very special.Thank you,again,for

sharing your kindness with me.That truly does soften the way and I truly,truly

do appreciate it.

> > >

> > > ((((() )))),

> > >

> > > Everything that you've said makes perfect sense - and it does help to

understand what you are feeling, so I hope you won't hold back on that. You are

safe to be whoever you are here, and to say what you need to without judgement.

You could never come across as " whining or pointlessly despairing or seeming to

not appreciate the goodwill all of you expressed to me " . You hold yourself to

pretty high standards (and I fear I recognize some of my own issues in that.)

> > >

> > > Something you said strikes me as the crux of what you're feeling " I just

want to exist. To try to exist. To try to survive. For that to be

> > > enough--that I am worthy of at least that. Without having to have my

existence used for the benefit of others.I feel like all I've ever been worth is

what other people can use of me and how they can use me. My pain exists in and

of itself. " That, and your feeling that " it was my fault. If I had never existed

at all, as me, none of this would have happened to me. "

> > >

> > > The latter is such a powerful burden and if I could help to easy you of

anything it would be that belief. There is no way that you can ever truly know

the answer, but let me at least offer you an alternative view. You were by some

miracle born profoundly gifted. Your nada clearly had no capacity to deal with

that (not your fault). You could have been born different in ANY way (profoundly

disabled, or mentally challenged, or musically gifted, or artistic, or overly

active and athletic.... ) and your nada would not have had the capacity to deal

with it. You could have simply been her target as the firstborn - it is for

certain someone would have been. It just seems that your brother came after you

- and was always going to be under the radar. And I say again that I do believe

that your gift of intelligence is the ONE thing that made the difference in your

survival - and will continue to. By being YOU, you survived, and will get to a

place where you

can be whole again. At present, look at your brother, and look at yourself -

and ask who has the chance at a better, healthier life?

> > >

> > > Please know that I don't say any of this to negate what your are feeling,

or try to " positive " you out of it. There is no way to put a positive spin on

what you have been through - ever. The positive will come in time, when you

reach that feeling of safety you long for.

> > >

> > > The things that have happened to you are fantastically horrible - so much

so that I continue to marvel that you are in ANY way held together. The more you

reveal, the more I understand how it would have been impossible for one person

to handle it all without splintering into different pieces of yourself - or

parsing out the experiences. But -- how to convey this -- while they are

horrible to hear, horrible to believe, those reactions are felt only out of

deeply felt empathy for you. But, finding it hard to hear them, does not equate

to being repelled by your telling of them. [The only thing I want to throw

against the wall is your nada - and for those who molested you, a wall with

spikes...] You've spent your whole life protecting yourself - and others - you

have no need to " protect " us.

> > >

> > > I think you have spent a lifetime censoring yourself - you had to with

your nada to survive worse than she already did to you - you were never really

allowed to just be you. Later, you've had to censor to either protect others

from the awful truth, or to protect yourself from opening up wounds you weren't

ready to deal with. From revealing too much of yourself that you weren't ready

to reveal. You've created this wonderful persona who is professionally

successful - a powerhouse that everyone looks to for advice to be their

cheerleader, and yet, who is there doing that for the little girl inside you?

(Okay admittedly, maybe I'm again projecting some of my own issues onto you, but

it just feels familiar to me.) I hope in part that we can be that for you -

maybe just a little, when you are ready.

> > >

> > > You have no need to reveal more here than you are comfortable with. You

don't have to feel you are somehow not being " honest " by revealing only parts of

the story. You have no need to censor anything either. Noone here is going to

judge you. I feel I can safely say that everyone wants to support you. One could

not hear any part of your story and not want to reach out and try to comfort

you, encourage you. Sometimes that's going to feel right, other times, not. It's

all okay. You already know the intentions are good.

> > >

> > > I still want to encourage you to write your " story. " However, in doing so,

my intention is never to cause you more distress. I encourage it as a way to

unburden the toxic memories within you. Write your story down, ALL of it,

uncensored. Put all those thoughts and feelings down and get them out of you.

For that reason only - to get them out of you in a way that you don't have to

hold anything back. Give yourself that freedom. Then, lock it away someplace

safe and try to visualize that it is OUT of you. Then keep it or destroy it or

whatever. I know it's not as simplistic as that..... but it would be another

step toward healing.

> > >

> > > I do believe others would be receptive to your story, and would be deeply

inspired by your very survival - as I am, but I would never encourage you to go

public for that reason alone - or ever, really, for all the reasons you've

stated. You do indeed need to focus on feeling safe, now, and that would

certainly not be a step forward in that direction. I also still want to

encourage you to write in some capacity if you feel the urge to pursue the

creative side of you....but, only if it fulfills something good in you.

> > >

> > > Mostly, I just want you to find that place where you feel safe. I know

that noone else can take you there, and you are working so hard to get there on

your own. At the least, I hope you will come to know that you are safe here with

us - just being you. No expectations, just BE.

> > >

> > > Suzy

> > >

> >

>

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Hi ... " The victory is in the journey " --yes! That is indeed wise and true.I

thank you for sharing it with us--personally I'm going to remember it now and

remind myself of it as needed.Now,*that* is a GOOD thought to have when the

journey itself is getting a bit too bumpy!

You know,what you said about your first husband made me think of my

fada...And I know what you mean about it being almost inevitable that we partner

with someone like a fada--and then it turns out that the best thing they did for

us was to leave! When I was growing up and had a problem,if I mentioned it to

fada at all,his " advice " was: " Well,nobody ever said life is easy...where did

you get the idea that life is easy...you aren't guaranteed a free ride through

life... "

And yet,this father who liked to harp on about " life " not being " easy "

instead of ever really asking me what was wrong,what was really going on,how

could he help--tended HIMSELF to take the easy way out by blaming others,feeling

sorry for himself and leaving it there,expecting other people (like me for

example,even as a small child) to cater to his needs...his " nobody ever said

life is easy " wasn't an assessment of sober reality as much as it was only an

expression of his own rampant self pity.And like your first husband,all my fada

ever saw was the doom and gloom without a reprieve.

Very different from what your best friend was saying to you.There is

something to be said for having to scale the cliffside and hanging on because we

can.Or in discovering that we can.And for learning how to find and make use of

the tools we need,which leads to better self-awareness and a keener knowledge of

existence--and increases our competence with both.

And...Please know that in expressing my sincere regard for you that

there is no suggestion in that of a " heavy trip " or some burden of expectation

that I'm giving you to bear.I know that you know that,nevertheless I repeat

it...I grew up in a sort of near suburb of hell (as we all did) and most of the

time what I saw was the worst of human nature: base

selfishness,violence,spiritual mediocrity,amoral indifference to suffering and

even delight in inflicting it or self-righteousness in denying it...and when I

try to think of the very few people who showed me any kind of alternative,they

are so few and far between that they are like drops in a tidalwave of

negativity.And yet...they are not...in the darkness any light shines more

brilliantly,even if it doesn't guide the way through it still illuminates or as

Shakespeare said, " How far that little candle throws its beams! " ...

I learned how to see the " little candles " wherever they are and to

concern myself less with whether they are made of the finest beeswax and more

with knowing that it is good that they do throw their beams.Nobody is perfect

and we would be unbearable to others if we were--and nobility of spirit often

co-exists with a knowingness of the darkness both within ourselves and without

ourselves.

My sincerity is an acknowledgement of yours.You have shown this beam

of goodwill and sincerity time and again in all of your posts--not just the

recent one addressed to me.It doesn't matter so much if it is shining out of

your own darkness--what truly matters is that it does shine.

I just can't help but...be glad for it...to call it as I see it...I

don't know if this is going to make any sense to you at all,but here is a poem

I've liked very much for years by Czeslaw Milosz,someone who lived the horrors

of WW2 in Poland and what he is writing about is beauty as benediction--and what

I am trying to say to you is that the beauty of the light you can shine despite

all you've endured is a kind of benediction you bestow,even if it is someone

else who sees it that way...Because to be kind and gracious is like becoming an

embodiment of the moment when the sun rises on the horizon in the morning or the

stars and the moon enliven the sky at night...and without that,what would life

be...and how could we not be glad...

Pure beauty,benediction: you are all I gathered

From a life that was bitter and confused

In which I learned about evil,my own and not my own.

Wonder kept seizing me and now I recall only wonder,

Rising of the sun over endless green

A universe of grasses and flowers

Blue outline of the mountain and a hosanna shout.

How many times,I asked myself,is this the truth of the earth?

How can laments and curses be turned into hymns?

What makes you pretend,when you know otherwise?

But the lips praised on their own; on their own the feet ran

The heart beat strongly-

And the tongue proclaimed its adoration.

It is what it is and it is what it isn't--yet it's good,for being so.

> I just get tired of holding it all together and I've realized that I keep

hoping to find some Shangri-La where I can let it all out.Which is a magical

place that doesn't exist.Only reality frees us from the false hopes and false

strivings that hold us back--ditching an illusion is ultimately liberating,as

painful as it is initially to let it go.I'm on a learning curve,right now in the

particulars of what is best to share or to keep to myself.There is no paradise

of all understanding,at least not on this earthly plane.That's just the way it

is and accepting that leads to more growth.I think you are the one who said

something like it's the journey that counts,in itself.I personally feel like I'm

not living if I'm not learning--and it's the learning,however it happens,that

counts...

> >

> > You have a nobility of spirit,,that is very special.Thank

you,again,for sharing your kindness with me.That truly does soften the way and I

truly,truly do appreciate it.

> >

> >

>

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Posted
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~thank you for this poem and your words about the poem; beautiful!

Re: Did you feel older than nada as a kid?

Hi ... " The victory is in the journey " --yes! That is indeed wise and

true.I thank you for sharing it with us--personally I'm going to remember it now

and remind myself of it as needed.Now,*that* is a GOOD thought to have when the

journey itself is getting a bit too bumpy!

You know,what you said about your first husband made me think of my

fada...And I know what you mean about it being almost inevitable that we partner

with someone like a fada--and then it turns out that the best thing they did for

us was to leave! When I was growing up and had a problem,if I mentioned it to

fada at all,his " advice " was: " Well,nobody ever said life is easy...where did

you get the idea that life is easy...you aren't guaranteed a free ride through

life... "

And yet,this father who liked to harp on about " life " not being " easy "

instead of ever really asking me what was wrong,what was really going on,how

could he help--tended HIMSELF to take the easy way out by blaming others,feeling

sorry for himself and leaving it there,expecting other people (like me for

example,even as a small child) to cater to his needs...his " nobody ever said

life is easy " wasn't an assessment of sober reality as much as it was only an

expression of his own rampant self pity.And like your first husband,all my fada

ever saw was the doom and gloom without a reprieve.

Very different from what your best friend was saying to you.There is

something to be said for having to scale the cliffside and hanging on because we

can.Or in discovering that we can.And for learning how to find and make use of

the tools we need,which leads to better self-awareness and a keener knowledge of

existence--and increases our competence with both.

And...Please know that in expressing my sincere regard for you that

there is no suggestion in that of a " heavy trip " or some burden of expectation

that I'm giving you to bear.I know that you know that,nevertheless I repeat

it...I grew up in a sort of near suburb of hell (as we all did) and most of the

time what I saw was the worst of human nature: base

selfishness,violence,spiritual mediocrity,amoral indifference to suffering and

even delight in inflicting it or self-righteousness in denying it...and when I

try to think of the very few people who showed me any kind of alternative,they

are so few and far between that they are like drops in a tidalwave of

negativity.And yet...they are not...in the darkness any light shines more

brilliantly,even if it doesn't guide the way through it still illuminates or as

Shakespeare said, " How far that little candle throws its beams! " ...

I learned how to see the " little candles " wherever they are and to

concern myself less with whether they are made of the finest beeswax and more

with knowing that it is good that they do throw their beams.Nobody is perfect

and we would be unbearable to others if we were--and nobility of spirit often

co-exists with a knowingness of the darkness both within ourselves and without

ourselves.

My sincerity is an acknowledgement of yours.You have shown this beam

of goodwill and sincerity time and again in all of your posts--not just the

recent one addressed to me.It doesn't matter so much if it is shining out of

your own darkness--what truly matters is that it does shine.

I just can't help but...be glad for it...to call it as I see it...I

don't know if this is going to make any sense to you at all,but here is a poem

I've liked very much for years by Czeslaw Milosz,someone who lived the horrors

of WW2 in Poland and what he is writing about is beauty as benediction--and what

I am trying to say to you is that the beauty of the light you can shine despite

all you've endured is a kind of benediction you bestow,even if it is someone

else who sees it that way...Because to be kind and gracious is like becoming an

embodiment of the moment when the sun rises on the horizon in the morning or the

stars and the moon enliven the sky at night...and without that,what would life

be...and how could we not be glad...

Pure beauty,benediction: you are all I gathered

From a life that was bitter and confused

In which I learned about evil,my own and not my own.

Wonder kept seizing me and now I recall only wonder,

Rising of the sun over endless green

A universe of grasses and flowers

Blue outline of the mountain and a hosanna shout.

How many times,I asked myself,is this the truth of the earth?

How can laments and curses be turned into hymns?

What makes you pretend,when you know otherwise?

But the lips praised on their own; on their own the feet ran

The heart beat strongly-

And the tongue proclaimed its adoration.

It is what it is and it is what it isn't--yet it's good,for being

so.

> I just get tired of holding it all together and I've realized that I

keep hoping to find some Shangri-La where I can let it all out.Which is a

magical place that doesn't exist.Only reality frees us from the false hopes and

false strivings that hold us back--ditching an illusion is ultimately

liberating,as painful as it is initially to let it go.I'm on a learning

curve,right now in the particulars of what is best to share or to keep to

myself.There is no paradise of all understanding,at least not on this earthly

plane.That's just the way it is and accepting that leads to more growth.I think

you are the one who said something like it's the journey that counts,in itself.I

personally feel like I'm not living if I'm not learning--and it's the

learning,however it happens,that counts...

> >

> > You have a nobility of spirit,,that is very special.Thank

you,again,for sharing your kindness with me.That truly does soften the way and I

truly,truly do appreciate it.

> >

> >

>

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Well,Suzy,wow...I have to say I'm equally humbled and uplifted by your post.And

thank you--your words bring a great degree of comfort--your expression is not in

the slightest bit inadequate and even surpasses adequate.It means alot to

me--enormously--when you understand that all of my parts are still me; or that

you understand the sense in which they are still me.When I first started therapy

I myself had this idea of what DID is based on " Sybil " : pretty dramatic

switching where she found herself in hotel rooms in another city and had no idea

how she got there...and when the therapist asked me if I lose time I said no

because it isn't as obvious or dramatic as that.When I was a kid sometimes it

was but I thought I'd overcome it.It's more like being " behind " time for a

little while and to me that didn't count as straight up losing time because I

was still sort of there witnessing it,if not being the one doing the doing.

Judith Hermann,an expert/specialist in trauma,wrote about the " double

vision " of traumatic experience,where it's possible to know at the same time

that something happened to you and yet to continue to perceive it as unreal---as

if it happened and it didn't.It gets even more complicated when you have parts

that stood in while the abuse was occuring--it happened to them but because they

come from me,it's almost becoming a triple vision or more if you multiply the

parts from me to which ones came forward as I retreated.And they are also born

of trauma so their being at all is also " double visioned " --I knew they existed

but I didn't.I knew they were there but didn't want to know they were there.And

then being in a society that has problems with acknowledging this kind of

childhood trauma for what it is and certainly can't " hear " what I had to do to

cope with it and I also wanted to turn away and not know.I started out what a

diagnosis of " Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified " which at least gave

me the permission I needed to even think about it instead of continuing to

reflexively deny my own experience...My therapist gently told me that I had

scored very high and well within the range of having DID and that the only

questions I had answered no to were about losing time and having full blown

alters and I want to make it clear that she has not ever made any suggestive

comments that I must actually have DID or in any way made me want to manufacture

having it.She has been very professional and competent and above board with

me.It was just the first time that I felt like I had permission to tell someone

about these things.I took some childhood photos in for one of our sessions,with

that " double vision " going,because I knew " who " they were photos of.I handed her

one of them from when I was four and heard myself saying, " This is Jimmie... " One

of my little boy parts...I'm wearing a male cousin's hand-me-downs and a

hat,which up until the age of five or so is what I did when I " switched " : I

literally put on a hat when someone else took over.In the photo,I'm not sitting

the way I did,but as Jimmie: very straight back,legs out,when usually I sat

" Indian style " ...I even had a male baby doll next to me--I don't remember how I

acquired that doll but if it was Jimmie of course he couldn't have a girl baby

doll.It was the hat mostly that did it for me: I don't remember either where I

got it from but it was a cheap tinfoil hat with a red feather and I do remember

having a fit when nada threw it out because it was like she'd sent " Jimmie " into

limbo...

In the past two weeks I've had some communication with Jimmie and some

others.It's probably going to take a long time to get to know them and I'm not

even close yet to the point of integrating them into me.What I'm aiming for

right now is " co-consciousness " --that is,being able to know who is who in my

" system " and being able to communicate with them so we can all decide who is

going to be outfront and who isn't and when and why.I know that sounds really

weird and Suzy I really appreciate you saying that you haven't experienced me as

" weird " --I appreciate that very much but I do understand if it sounds weird to

others.Most people don't have to establish communication with a four year old

boy inside them and to tell him that he needs to stay inside.Last night while I

was walking my dog on the main boulevard in town Jimmie wanted to come forward

to see some of the Xmas decorations and I let him,but with me there standing on

the side with him making his comments.There's an antique store in town with

string puppets in the windows and he wanted to see them and that's all he

wanted,just to be for a moment...

I have DID,not just DDNOS.I've accepted that in the last couple of weeks.I

find it interesting in terms of what having that says about human

consciousness.The human brain is still mostly unmapped territory.All of my parts

are aspects of me either as I once was--or needed to be--and as I am now.I know

that I am the one who created them yet they do seem like separate

personalities.Maggie was very upset that I " outed " her in one of my posts in

this thread and said that she lived in a " fool's paradise " .I have this internal

space where all the parts can gather--it has a dark nothingness at the back

where Maggie went after that post,like receding into that nothingness.I had to

call her back.I can see her--she's sort of like a little old lady,very gentle

and sweet.She's based on my maternal grandmother.Integrating Maggie into

me,right now,feels like I would be killing her.She's been there for me for so

long.I'm under no pressure by my therapist to do so--I know that Maggie is still

me,that she is my hopeful,compassionate self--but to me we feel more like a team

and I will have to see...if I ever try to have Maggie absorbed into

.She is one of my " protector " parts which is fairly common,to have one

or more of those.When I had to call her back from the nothingness,she asked me

how could I have said that about a fool's paradise--where would we be without

believing in goodness--that she had saved me from having hatred,that she was

always protecting me from that,keeping me safe from letting it overwhelm me.She

is my cheerleader for having hope,for continuing to believe in my higher self.

I think if there is anything " miraculous " about me it's that I didn't

become a psychopath.My childhood was daily being torn down,treated like a piece

of garbage,being taunted and hurt and used--being pushed to the very limits of

endurance.Maggie is my own miracle of keeping hope through all that--of holding

on to compassion.I had to create her to keep that positivity somewhere safe

because it was impossible to live that way just as me in that environment.I had

to hide it away somewhere safe and to create " someone else " to live it for me.I

created her out of a need that I had to hold onto those things because letting

them go would have been anathema to MY spirit.And yes,in that sense,Maggie is

deeply a part of the real me.And is Jimmie with his desire to experience life

and have fun.As ,I was ridiculed by my parents for wanting to be happy

and my nada was so profoundly disturbed,if she saw ME as being happy for a

moment she'd hound me with taunts such as " I wish you'd been born

stillborn...I'm going to kill you...I can't stand the sight of you,why don't you

just leave... " But Jimmie,for example,didn't care if she said those things

because she wasn't saying them to him,so it didn't matter.

I'd like to absorb Jimmie into me.I'm not ready to try that yet because I

need to spend some time with all of them still to really get to know them before

I decide.I can't really imagine not having their company--I would just like to

be the one who decides who is upfront and when and to control that.Ideally,I'd

like to have them all stay in the background as my own private support team with

me always upfront.

Suzy,what you described as " emotional amnesia " sounds very typical of what

amnesia is--you don't realize at the time that it's even amnesia,only

afterward.And trauma has that " time-disconnect " element to it--that you

experience the feelings well after the actual event.Trauma arrests feeling in

the moment,as it happens.You often need time distance from it to even have that

" bubbling " up you described.

My dog is pacing for her walk.I'd like to get back to this later...and I

enjoyed your joke about work---how I wish we all could draw a salary and it's

pretty funny (if maybe too subjectively funny actually) to think of my different

aged parts getting paid money--especially Maggie because if she had to write her

age down she couldn't--she's " timeless " " eternal " and if asked,would explain

that is because she is a " higher self " and more of a soul than a person...she

can be,and has been,any age..and yet she is beyond having an " age " -- I don't

think that would fly with Social Security though lol...

>

> ,

>

> I'm so glad if my words have in any way made sense to you - and if they

brought you a small degree of comfort. That means a lot to me as I feel

sometimes that words are just too inadequate to express how much I admire your

strength and courage within your journey. Just in the short time we've gotten

to " know " you, you've come so far. I really can " see " you evolving, even though

you may not recognize the leaps you are making.

>

> I'm really proud to hear you say " Since I started therapy I've begun to learn

how to accept that I was once in such a psychologically untenable position that

I literally couldn't go it alone.That it's not a sign of my weakness or

weirdness that I created " other people " to stand in for me or be for me and that

I don't need to despise myself for it. " That's huge! I have truly NEVER seen

you as weird in any way - it makes more sense to me that one " person " could NOT

have handled all that you have - hence the need to " parse " it out. That you

would have needed to protect the " feeling " part of you and let others step

forward to " take care of business. " The amazing thing is that your psyche has

such a powerful will to survive that it used whatever means necessary. To my

thinking, your experience is a testament to your strength and will, I see

nothing of weakness in it.

>

> The discussion of persona vs personality is indeed an interesting one. I know

it is way too simplistic, but it seems that both in various presentations are

all parts of ourselves, but the distinction is a matter of whether there is

conscious choice. I would guess that the more " " is present and

received positively (and " you " will be based on what I see!), the more you will

be present. But, I also would like to say that I still see your " other "

personalities as all you. They're all parts of YOU that are handling the things

you need to. No one else is stepping up to take care of things - you are. It

may not be in a way that you wish for, and you may not be in control of how and

when, but it's still you on some level - so you still deserve the credit and

recognition. I know it may feel false to you and I sense you feeling " well, if

you only knew the real me..., " but I can only see that they are all parts of the

" real " you - and deserving. Allow yourself that.

>

> And, this is totally outside my purvue of experience or understanding, so I

don't presume to have a clue what I'm talking about here, but I have to wonder

if the more that you get to know the different parts of you and " their " role in

handling your experiences/feelings -- that once your feelings are faced and

dealt with - they will likely meld into " you " or together naturally- as you

absorb the feelings into you. I'll stop on that, because I feel pretty lame

trying to put it into words.

>

> As for personas, your T. is right in that we all have different ones - we

never really convey 100% of our " true " selves to anyone - not our mate, not our

kids, not our friends, not our coworkers/clients, not our fellow parents, not

our parents, not our acquaintences (heaven help if our kids saw us carrying on

for girls' night out, for example....). There is always a certain amount of

filtering going on, as much for ourselves as for the other person(s) in our

lives. I think that is completely normal. I think it only becomes NOT normal

when any one of them comes in complete conflict with another (and that's

probably why so many of us feel our relationships with our PD parents are so

completely false and just WRONG).

>

> As for what you are specifically dealing with right now, I imagine that it

must be so difficult to begin to finally recognize and absorb the feelings

related to your past experiences - especially given the disparity between the

feelings of a much younger self and the adult you are now. I have only a

miniscule inkling of what that must be like. I have once in my life experienced

what I call " emotional amnesia, " where the experience was traumatic enough for

me to shut down completely - emotionally - although I was not aware I had done

so at the time. I still went through everyday life and appeared to be coping

incredibly well (too well), until about a year later when suddenly all of the

emotions bubbled up and I had a complete time-disconnect between emotion and

experience. I had to deal with the emotions after the fact and it was not easy,

but at least there wasn't a significant age disconnect. So where in your life

now do you put those emotions related to then and your much younger self? I

know I can't help with that, but I hope at least it helps that I think I

understand....

>

> I can also see why you are tired of feeling used (or at least having your

giftedness used against you.) As a child, it certainly played a role in why

things were more difficult for you, and your nada reinforced the thought that

you were " difficult " with your teachers - so they didn't look further. Had your

nada actly differently (as a healthy, caring parent would have), your teachers

and/or school might also have - so put this issue back on her. As for the

teachers themselves, I would say let that one go - they're not worth it. They

simply weren't equipped to deal with a child as gifted as you - probably never

had and never will again see someone like you (their loss). It would not have

occurred to them that you had the intelligence or maturity to even form the

thought that you felt used -they probably thought they were doing good to give

your something to do... Their fault, not yours.

>

> With all of your internal struggles, striving for healing, maintaining your

professional life, maintaining your relationships, all the while feeling the

need to protect the world from your " behind the scenes " struggle, it's no wonder

you are tired. It IS a wonder that your spirit does not give up. Your spirit

shines through - so much. I don't see you giving up. You've come too far.

>

> And while there is no place in this real world that you can just let go and

let it all hang out (save writing it down for yourself), I reiterate that I hope

you can feel safe in continuing to share your story here. I so much admire your

courage and grace in doing so, and I thank you for trusting us enough. And you

explain it very well....

>

> And, if you will allow me to interject a tiny bit of humor (well-intentioned,

I promise): I wish your boss/co-workers appreciated just how many people you are

bringing to work with you to do the difficult jobs they don't seem to be able to

- you would surely get a big raise. :) (((((hug)))))

>

> Suzy

>

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Leanne,thank you so much for saying these kind and supportive words.I'm deeply

glad that what I have shared was helpful to you.You sound like a very spiritual

person.

> > > >

> > > > ((((() )))),

> > > >

> > > > Everything that you've said makes perfect sense - and it does help to

understand what you are feeling, so I hope you won't hold back on that. You are

safe to be whoever you are here, and to say what you need to without judgement.

You could never come across as " whining or pointlessly despairing or seeming to

not appreciate the goodwill all of you expressed to me " . You hold yourself to

pretty high standards (and I fear I recognize some of my own issues in that.)

> > > >

> > > > Something you said strikes me as the crux of what you're feeling " I just

want to exist. To try to exist. To try to survive. For that to be

> > > > enough--that I am worthy of at least that. Without having to have my

existence used for the benefit of others.I feel like all I've ever been worth is

what other people can use of me and how they can use me. My pain exists in and

of itself. " That, and your feeling that " it was my fault. If I had never existed

at all, as me, none of this would have happened to me. "

> > > >

> > > > The latter is such a powerful burden and if I could help to easy you of

anything it would be that belief. There is no way that you can ever truly know

the answer, but let me at least offer you an alternative view. You were by some

miracle born profoundly gifted. Your nada clearly had no capacity to deal with

that (not your fault). You could have been born different in ANY way (profoundly

disabled, or mentally challenged, or musically gifted, or artistic, or overly

active and athletic.... ) and your nada would not have had the capacity to deal

with it. You could have simply been her target as the firstborn - it is for

certain someone would have been. It just seems that your brother came after you

- and was always going to be under the radar. And I say again that I do believe

that your gift of intelligence is the ONE thing that made the difference in your

survival - and will continue to. By being YOU, you survived, and will get to a

place where you

> can be whole again. At present, look at your brother, and look at yourself -

and ask who has the chance at a better, healthier life?

> > > >

> > > > Please know that I don't say any of this to negate what your are

feeling, or try to " positive " you out of it. There is no way to put a positive

spin on what you have been through - ever. The positive will come in time, when

you reach that feeling of safety you long for.

> > > >

> > > > The things that have happened to you are fantastically horrible - so

much so that I continue to marvel that you are in ANY way held together. The

more you reveal, the more I understand how it would have been impossible for one

person to handle it all without splintering into different pieces of yourself -

or parsing out the experiences. But -- how to convey this -- while they are

horrible to hear, horrible to believe, those reactions are felt only out of

deeply felt empathy for you. But, finding it hard to hear them, does not equate

to being repelled by your telling of them. [The only thing I want to throw

against the wall is your nada - and for those who molested you, a wall with

spikes...] You've spent your whole life protecting yourself - and others - you

have no need to " protect " us.

> > > >

> > > > I think you have spent a lifetime censoring yourself - you had to with

your nada to survive worse than she already did to you - you were never really

allowed to just be you. Later, you've had to censor to either protect others

from the awful truth, or to protect yourself from opening up wounds you weren't

ready to deal with. From revealing too much of yourself that you weren't ready

to reveal. You've created this wonderful persona who is professionally

successful - a powerhouse that everyone looks to for advice to be their

cheerleader, and yet, who is there doing that for the little girl inside you?

(Okay admittedly, maybe I'm again projecting some of my own issues onto you, but

it just feels familiar to me.) I hope in part that we can be that for you -

maybe just a little, when you are ready.

> > > >

> > > > You have no need to reveal more here than you are comfortable with. You

don't have to feel you are somehow not being " honest " by revealing only parts of

the story. You have no need to censor anything either. Noone here is going to

judge you. I feel I can safely say that everyone wants to support you. One could

not hear any part of your story and not want to reach out and try to comfort

you, encourage you. Sometimes that's going to feel right, other times, not. It's

all okay. You already know the intentions are good.

> > > >

> > > > I still want to encourage you to write your " story. " However, in doing

so, my intention is never to cause you more distress. I encourage it as a way to

unburden the toxic memories within you. Write your story down, ALL of it,

uncensored. Put all those thoughts and feelings down and get them out of you.

For that reason only - to get them out of you in a way that you don't have to

hold anything back. Give yourself that freedom. Then, lock it away someplace

safe and try to visualize that it is OUT of you. Then keep it or destroy it or

whatever. I know it's not as simplistic as that..... but it would be another

step toward healing.

> > > >

> > > > I do believe others would be receptive to your story, and would be

deeply inspired by your very survival - as I am, but I would never encourage you

to go public for that reason alone - or ever, really, for all the reasons you've

stated. You do indeed need to focus on feeling safe, now, and that would

certainly not be a step forward in that direction. I also still want to

encourage you to write in some capacity if you feel the urge to pursue the

creative side of you....but, only if it fulfills something good in you.

> > > >

> > > > Mostly, I just want you to find that place where you feel safe. I know

that noone else can take you there, and you are working so hard to get there on

your own. At the least, I hope you will come to know that you are safe here with

us - just being you. No expectations, just BE.

> > > >

> > > > Suzy

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

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>

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