Guest guest Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 If in the future I find myself at the receiving end of an interrogation by my nada (as I used to be so often when I was little) I think I'll just come up with a stock response such as: " I'm not going to discuss that with you, mom. What would you like for dinner? " (or any other neutral topic) Simply refusing to engage at all is a really excellent counter-weapon. If nada then becomes hostile and starts slinging insults, leave. All our lives our nadas have been used to setting the rules of engagement entirely on their own terms. Refusing to engage with them at all puts the control back in your hands. We have to keep reminding ourselves that we are dealing with a mentally ill person. Trying to be logical and rational, gracious and respectful simply does not work. -Annie > > My BPD mom had 2 suicide attempts about 6 months ago - the second landed her > 10 days in a psych ward. She is more stable currently but still BPD and > probably some other things. For some reason she is suddenly getting > confrontational and taking different people on about that the time when she > was so unstable and in the psych ward. She's basically put different pieces > together and is now confronting different people about what they did and or > said during that time. So far her 'investigations' have not led her to me, > but I am sure they will eventually as I did talk to a number of her friends > during that time. > > Partly, I'm worried about when she does come at me with her accusations - > " Did you tell so and so ________? " in an attacking confrontational tone. And > it will undoubtably be something that has a grain of truth (as in it is > related to something I did or said), but will have been twisted into me > somehow personnally attacking her in some way. I find that I go into self > protection mode very quickly when she is like this. > > She already tried recently to have a 'heart to heart' talk with me about > " everything that happened " and " she feels like we have been avoiding it " , > etc. I don't know whether she really wanted to talk to me or she wanted to > get information about several folks who have not talked to her for the last > six months or she wanted to justify herself and her actions or something > else. I some basically said, " There is nothing about that time I have been > avoiding talking about with her and there is nothing I am wanting to talk > about with you. " Which is true because although I have lots of thoughts > about that time, she is not who I have any desire to talk about them with. > > She also asked me several questions which were basically traps, " Do you > think I lie alot? " " Are you angry with me? " " Has anyone told you my > diagnosis? " Followed quickly with her assertion that " My psychiatrist says I > am definitely not Bipolar or Borderline. " Other than not letting her see > one bit of what mattered to me or what I actually thought or felt and not > letting her talk with me about my brother, I was basically a wimp and > protected myself in this conversation. > > Like I said, I'm sure she will come after me sooner or later about > something. I really don't know what to do in these situations. Even if I was > not so prone to protect myself by avoiding anything I know will cause her to > blow her top, these conversations feel like a trap. She doesn't really want > to hear the truth. She just wants to make her point or be affirmed or > whatever. And I feel like there is no point in trying to have a genuine > discussion about whatever it is. She is not capable of hearing or seeing > anything other than what she has already concluded, which pretty much always > involves her being in the right. But I also do not want to outright lie or > just try to appease her. > > What in the world does compassionate detachment or boundaries look like when > nada is being confrontational like this? > > MY > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 MY - Well, it sounds like these aren't real efforts to make conversation. Your mom just wants the stimulation of a fight, and boy, howdy, she's going to drag you into a squabble one way or another. When my mother wants to have a " therapeutic " type chat (about her symptoms, etc.) or accuses me of thinking she's crazy, or uses those " trap " questions - I usually respond with the verbal equivalent of going into the fetal position. " I really don't think there's anything to be learned or gained by having this conversation... This is something you should really discuss with your therapist... I'm sorry, but I don't have the background to help you with this - but I bet your therapist could shed some light on it... " - and then, at the first opportunity, RUN!!! (see earlier posts for my non-negotiable rule about NEVER letting the car get blocked in the driveway!) - :0 - > > My BPD mom had 2 suicide attempts about 6 months ago - the second landed her > 10 days in a psych ward. She is more stable currently but still BPD and > probably some other things. For some reason she is suddenly getting > confrontational and taking different people on about that the time when she > was so unstable and in the psych ward. She's basically put different pieces > together and is now confronting different people about what they did and or > said during that time. So far her 'investigations' have not led her to me, > but I am sure they will eventually as I did talk to a number of her friends > during that time. > > Partly, I'm worried about when she does come at me with her accusations - > " Did you tell so and so ________? " in an attacking confrontational tone. And > it will undoubtably be something that has a grain of truth (as in it is > related to something I did or said), but will have been twisted into me > somehow personnally attacking her in some way. I find that I go into self > protection mode very quickly when she is like this. > > She already tried recently to have a 'heart to heart' talk with me about > " everything that happened " and " she feels like we have been avoiding it " , > etc. I don't know whether she really wanted to talk to me or she wanted to > get information about several folks who have not talked to her for the last > six months or she wanted to justify herself and her actions or something > else. I some basically said, " There is nothing about that time I have been > avoiding talking about with her and there is nothing I am wanting to talk > about with you. " Which is true because although I have lots of thoughts > about that time, she is not who I have any desire to talk about them with. > > She also asked me several questions which were basically traps, " Do you > think I lie alot? " " Are you angry with me? " " Has anyone told you my > diagnosis? " Followed quickly with her assertion that " My psychiatrist says I > am definitely not Bipolar or Borderline. " Other than not letting her see > one bit of what mattered to me or what I actually thought or felt and not > letting her talk with me about my brother, I was basically a wimp and > protected myself in this conversation. > > Like I said, I'm sure she will come after me sooner or later about > something. I really don't know what to do in these situations. Even if I was > not so prone to protect myself by avoiding anything I know will cause her to > blow her top, these conversations feel like a trap. She doesn't really want > to hear the truth. She just wants to make her point or be affirmed or > whatever. And I feel like there is no point in trying to have a genuine > discussion about whatever it is. She is not capable of hearing or seeing > anything other than what she has already concluded, which pretty much always > involves her being in the right. But I also do not want to outright lie or > just try to appease her. > > What in the world does compassionate detachment or boundaries look like when > nada is being confrontational like this? > > MY > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 MY, your post makes me feel mildly ill, as it brings me right to that sick feeling in my stomach when my nada is trying to trap me or trick me into an argument. I always tried to answer her straight, but a good trick my therapist has mentioned is that you can basically throw ANY question back at anyone at anytime: " What makes you ask about that? " And of course, running is always a great option too. -Deanna > > My BPD mom had 2 suicide attempts about 6 months ago - the second landed her > 10 days in a psych ward. She is more stable currently but still BPD and > probably some other things. For some reason she is suddenly getting > confrontational and taking different people on about that the time when she > was so unstable and in the psych ward. She's basically put different pieces > together and is now confronting different people about what they did and or > said during that time. So far her 'investigations' have not led her to me, > but I am sure they will eventually as I did talk to a number of her friends > during that time. > > Partly, I'm worried about when she does come at me with her accusations - > " Did you tell so and so ________? " in an attacking confrontational tone. And > it will undoubtably be something that has a grain of truth (as in it is > related to something I did or said), but will have been twisted into me > somehow personnally attacking her in some way. I find that I go into self > protection mode very quickly when she is like this. > > She already tried recently to have a 'heart to heart' talk with me about > " everything that happened " and " she feels like we have been avoiding it " , > etc. I don't know whether she really wanted to talk to me or she wanted to > get information about several folks who have not talked to her for the last > six months or she wanted to justify herself and her actions or something > else. I some basically said, " There is nothing about that time I have been > avoiding talking about with her and there is nothing I am wanting to talk > about with you. " Which is true because although I have lots of thoughts > about that time, she is not who I have any desire to talk about them with. > > She also asked me several questions which were basically traps, " Do you > think I lie alot? " " Are you angry with me? " " Has anyone told you my > diagnosis? " Followed quickly with her assertion that " My psychiatrist says I > am definitely not Bipolar or Borderline. " Other than not letting her see > one bit of what mattered to me or what I actually thought or felt and not > letting her talk with me about my brother, I was basically a wimp and > protected myself in this conversation. > > Like I said, I'm sure she will come after me sooner or later about > something. I really don't know what to do in these situations. Even if I was > not so prone to protect myself by avoiding anything I know will cause her to > blow her top, these conversations feel like a trap. She doesn't really want > to hear the truth. She just wants to make her point or be affirmed or > whatever. And I feel like there is no point in trying to have a genuine > discussion about whatever it is. She is not capable of hearing or seeing > anything other than what she has already concluded, which pretty much always > involves her being in the right. But I also do not want to outright lie or > just try to appease her. > > What in the world does compassionate detachment or boundaries look like when > nada is being confrontational like this? > > MY > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 My, How would it go over if you simply told her your truth, such as: I'm not comfortable discussing this. I feel like I'm in a no-win place here, Mom. I feel like I can't answer that question in a way that doesn't cause issues between us. I've told you I'm doing okay with this and don't feel a need to talk about it with you. I feel set up with a question that's worded that way. I have no choice but to hurt someone with my reply, and that's not what I want to do. If she accuses you of talking to others inappropriately while she was hospitalized, how about: Mom, it was a very stressful time. I did the best I could do in the moment. Mom, if I inadvertanly said something that has distressed you, I'm sorry. It certainly wasn't my intent to bring you any sorrow. Mom, that was a situation I was not prepared for; I don't know how I could have been. I was just trying to get through. Yah, I konw it's kind of simplistic, but if you play around with those a bit you may find some ways to make them more your own. I guess what I am really thinking is that as KOs we are so afraid of speaking the truth as it pertains to us, and we can be so easily intimidated into doing nothing but either defending ourselves or outright lying. Sometimes the truth, simply and unprovokingly stated, can work wonders. Having said that, a bpd can see anything as provoking, so it's just some thoughts to take or leave as you see fit. A part of me would love to be able to say, " Mom, you tried to kill yourself! Twice! What the *#%$ was I *supposed* to say? What did you *think* would happen when people wondered where you were? How dare you expect me to lie for you? You made your choice and that's your consequence. " Cuz ya, THAT'S not confrontational... : / Take care and hope it goes well. > > My BPD mom had 2 suicide attempts about 6 months ago - the second landed her > 10 days in a psych ward. She is more stable currently but still BPD and > probably some other things. For some reason she is suddenly getting > confrontational and taking different people on about that the time when she > was so unstable and in the psych ward. She's basically put different pieces > together and is now confronting different people about what they did and or > said during that time. So far her 'investigations' have not led her to me, > but I am sure they will eventually as I did talk to a number of her friends > during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 My, I have no idea what compassionate detachment would look like in this situation, but this is what I would do. I would stop trying to address it at the level of what is obvious or on the surface. I would stop trying to respond to requests for a " heart to heart " as what they claim to be because you know they are not. They are really something else--an attempt to find someone to blame? I don't know what it is, but you do, and I would start responding to them for what they really are. I might say something like, " I know you are really angry about the time when you went to a psych ward and are trying to figure out who might be responsible for it. If you are going to blame me, then blame me. If you aren't going to blame me, then that is fine also. But I won't participate in that process. I won't pretend to be having a different kind of conversation than we are really having. "  And then I would leave the room/end the conversation. I really don't think her game of " pretend " is good for her. It's like pretending the dragons she's hallucinating about are real. It will anger her to no end if you say anything that direct or confrontational to her, but it may also remove the reward she gets from pretending she's doing something entirely innocuous when she's really being nasty, vindictive, and angry. Best of luck, Ashana See the Web & #39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Earlier tonight I had a telephone conversation with my mother during which she attempted to " analyze " me (as is usual with us). Her analyses usually center around some aspect of me/my life/my behavior/my choices that she finds absolutely and irrefutably wrong. Until a year or two ago I used to engage with her in earnest, attempting to refute the illogical arguments, to point out her exaggerations, unsubstantiated " evidence " , and general craziness. However, any disagreement with her would make her combative and aggressively confrontational and would result in me being insulted, psychologically and emotionally abused, leaving me devastated and in need of days/weeks of recovery. Over the last year this has been changing... The biggest drivers of this change - 1)the realization that she has a disease (which makes her even more miserable than she makes me, so I really do feel sorry for her much more than for myself - I realize that my life is generally happy and enjoyable and the difficult moments I sometimes face when I am in her company are transient, whereas for her, those moments are lasting, she can never get away from herself/her disease), and 2) the decision to stop taking things personally (she is not mistreating me because she hates me... she is mistreating me because that is the only way in which she can function; I know some of us KOs often feel like our parent(s) is perfectly capable of being nice, but chooses to be mean to us specifically - I used to think this way, especially when she would be annihilating me in one breath then answering the phone, smiling and telling whoever had called what a lovely time she was having with me. However, I have now accepted that THAT is also a part of the disease - they have different interaction patterns with strangers/acquaintances and relatives/people close to them). So... back to our conversation tonight. She is lately focused on how I am " incapable of finding fault " with myself, and how I am " blind to the ways in which [i am] screwed up " , since I am not divorcing my husband and running to live with her until she can find a husband " suitable to our station and needs " . She attempted to question me about why I will not analyze myself and said that there are ONLY 2 possible answers (life almost always seems to be dichotomous with her: it's either a or b, good or bad, black or white) - I am either so " self-righteous " that I think I am above scrutiny, or that I do not respect her enough to discuss myself with her. I took a deep breath and smiled (yes, we were on the phone, but it still helps me keep my mood light), then told her in a jocular tone that as far as I was concerned there had to be at least 3 different options/answers/reasons/solutions to every problem/issue, then I told her that I did engage in quite a bit of introspection, analysis, etc. Her response was, " Oh, so you just don't like discussing yourself with ME? Am I your enemy? " Classic hyperbole from mother... I decided to continue humoring her, kept smiling and asked her in the same lighthearted tone why it was necessary to discuss my self with ANYone at all. She proceeded to tell me that I cannot possibly understand myself/my errors from within, that one had to look from the " outside " to be able to recognize my issues. I told her that I spend time not only analyzing my internal thoughts/emotions but also considering myself from an outsider's perspective. To this she replied that objective self-analysis was an oxymoron. I saw my golden opportunity here... I laughed and said, " How fitting... I guess I'm the moron, since my husband is the ox " (she routinely calls him an " ox " , and that is one of her kindest words for him), then I promptly told her that the battery was dying on the phone and that we'll catch up later. When I hung up the phone, I realized that 2 years ago I would have taken this seriously and would have gotten sucked into a painful and frustrating argument, then been miserable for days while recovering from wounds I had allowed myself to suffer. Today... I am largely unaffected by this, I will not think back on this conversation tomorrow, nor will a moment of my happiness be stolen by the words she said/would have said (had I allowed the conversation to go further). > > My BPD mom had 2 suicide attempts about 6 months ago - the second landed her > 10 days in a psych ward. She is more stable currently but still BPD and > probably some other things. For some reason she is suddenly getting > confrontational and taking different people on about that the time when she > was so unstable and in the psych ward. She's basically put different pieces > together and is now confronting different people about what they did and or > said during that time. So far her 'investigations' have not led her to me, > but I am sure they will eventually as I did talk to a number of her friends > during that time. > > Partly, I'm worried about when she does come at me with her accusations - > " Did you tell so and so ________? " in an attacking confrontational tone. And > it will undoubtably be something that has a grain of truth (as in it is > related to something I did or said), but will have been twisted into me > somehow personnally attacking her in some way. I find that I go into self > protection mode very quickly when she is like this. > > She already tried recently to have a 'heart to heart' talk with me about > " everything that happened " and " she feels like we have been avoiding it " , > etc. I don't know whether she really wanted to talk to me or she wanted to > get information about several folks who have not talked to her for the last > six months or she wanted to justify herself and her actions or something > else. I some basically said, " There is nothing about that time I have been > avoiding talking about with her and there is nothing I am wanting to talk > about with you. " Which is true because although I have lots of thoughts > about that time, she is not who I have any desire to talk about them with. > > She also asked me several questions which were basically traps, " Do you > think I lie alot? " " Are you angry with me? " " Has anyone told you my > diagnosis? " Followed quickly with her assertion that " My psychiatrist says I > am definitely not Bipolar or Borderline. " Other than not letting her see > one bit of what mattered to me or what I actually thought or felt and not > letting her talk with me about my brother, I was basically a wimp and > protected myself in this conversation. > > Like I said, I'm sure she will come after me sooner or later about > something. I really don't know what to do in these situations. Even if I was > not so prone to protect myself by avoiding anything I know will cause her to > blow her top, these conversations feel like a trap. She doesn't really want > to hear the truth. She just wants to make her point or be affirmed or > whatever. And I feel like there is no point in trying to have a genuine > discussion about whatever it is. She is not capable of hearing or seeing > anything other than what she has already concluded, which pretty much always > involves her being in the right. But I also do not want to outright lie or > just try to appease her. > > What in the world does compassionate detachment or boundaries look like when > nada is being confrontational like this? > > MY > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Your post is encouraging; I think we're all trying to get to that point which I like to think of as " compassionate detachment. " The emotional bonds that make us react to our primary care-giver as " Mother " are like super-glue; well, it feels that way to me. I haven't reached that cd point yet. I'm finding it pretty much impossible to relate to her as simply a fellow human being who is sadly rather severely mentally ill. At this point I can only be detached literally, by not having any communication with her at all. But I do want to get to the point where I can visit her and speak with her and no matter what she says it will not affect me at all. I want to be able to tolerate being around her even when she turns on the FOG machine. -Annie > > > > My BPD mom had 2 suicide attempts about 6 months ago - the second landed her > > 10 days in a psych ward. She is more stable currently but still BPD and > > probably some other things. For some reason she is suddenly getting > > confrontational and taking different people on about that the time when she > > was so unstable and in the psych ward. She's basically put different pieces > > together and is now confronting different people about what they did and or > > said during that time. So far her 'investigations' have not led her to me, > > but I am sure they will eventually as I did talk to a number of her friends > > during that time. > > > > Partly, I'm worried about when she does come at me with her accusations - > > " Did you tell so and so ________? " in an attacking confrontational tone. And > > it will undoubtably be something that has a grain of truth (as in it is > > related to something I did or said), but will have been twisted into me > > somehow personnally attacking her in some way. I find that I go into self > > protection mode very quickly when she is like this. > > > > She already tried recently to have a 'heart to heart' talk with me about > > " everything that happened " and " she feels like we have been avoiding it " , > > etc. I don't know whether she really wanted to talk to me or she wanted to > > get information about several folks who have not talked to her for the last > > six months or she wanted to justify herself and her actions or something > > else. I some basically said, " There is nothing about that time I have been > > avoiding talking about with her and there is nothing I am wanting to talk > > about with you. " Which is true because although I have lots of thoughts > > about that time, she is not who I have any desire to talk about them with. > > > > She also asked me several questions which were basically traps, " Do you > > think I lie alot? " " Are you angry with me? " " Has anyone told you my > > diagnosis? " Followed quickly with her assertion that " My psychiatrist says I > > am definitely not Bipolar or Borderline. " Other than not letting her see > > one bit of what mattered to me or what I actually thought or felt and not > > letting her talk with me about my brother, I was basically a wimp and > > protected myself in this conversation. > > > > Like I said, I'm sure she will come after me sooner or later about > > something. I really don't know what to do in these situations. Even if I was > > not so prone to protect myself by avoiding anything I know will cause her to > > blow her top, these conversations feel like a trap. She doesn't really want > > to hear the truth. She just wants to make her point or be affirmed or > > whatever. And I feel like there is no point in trying to have a genuine > > discussion about whatever it is. She is not capable of hearing or seeing > > anything other than what she has already concluded, which pretty much always > > involves her being in the right. But I also do not want to outright lie or > > just try to appease her. > > > > What in the world does compassionate detachment or boundaries look like when > > nada is being confrontational like this? > > > > MY > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Well done, Arianna! You obviously *do* engange in introspection; there's no other way to reach the point where you are. And yes, it really is always an either/or, it seems. It takes a lot to move past the hurt and learn to respond in the way that is best for you. It's also the way that is best for your mom, even if she cannot see it. It's very telling that she includes herself in your decision of a good husband... Thanks for sharing, > > Earlier tonight I had a telephone conversation with my mother during which she attempted to " analyze " me (as is usual with us). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 " I guess what I am really thinking is that as KOs we are so afraid of speaking the truth as it pertains to us, and we can be so easily intimidated into doing nothing but either defending ourselves or outright lying. " Well said!!! I swear I am always defending myself and tell little white lies to get her off my back. Things like I can't come this week because I have a job interview or doctors appt. I hate it. It's not healthy. > > > > My BPD mom had 2 suicide attempts about 6 months ago - the second landed her > > 10 days in a psych ward. She is more stable currently but still BPD and > > probably some other things. For some reason she is suddenly getting > > confrontational and taking different people on about that the time when she > > was so unstable and in the psych ward. She's basically put different pieces > > together and is now confronting different people about what they did and or > > said during that time. So far her 'investigations' have not led her to me, > > but I am sure they will eventually as I did talk to a number of her friends > > during that time. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.