Re: new issue

[Guest guest]

Michele,

These are hard issues, especially with a open-loving child like Aubrie and

one who has a rich imaginary life. Early school age children are already

magical thinkers - I am sure you know this from being a teacher - thinking

if they thought it, that is what made something bad happen. My cousin had

played the game step on a crack and you'll break your mother's back - well

her mom was then in a car wreck, broke her neck and died; let's just say it

was very hard for SueAnn to cope with.

With Aubrie, I would take her to a viewing or service and expect something

profound to come out of her. The harder part is when you explain death to

her, that she not misinterpret and develop fears. Thinking of death as

permanent sleep, so becoming afraid of ever sleeping. Being told that God

wants them in heaven with him now, so wondering when God will take Mommy or

Daddy or me..... I don't know the right words to use for her, but you know

her well, and will think of something that is right for her. I would also

want her to know that she has CHARGE and that CHARGE is not the same as the

degenerative diseases that her friends have, so she doesn't think it will

happen to her.

As for family support, sometimes a card can seen so meaningless, but to a

person grieving the loss of someone important in their life, even looking at

this huge stack of cards can be a reminder that their loved one was

important to others, and that others care what they are going through. A

simple, I am sorry, and I care about you is enough - there is no need to try

to explain the whys.

I don't know on the asking questions, because I prefer kids ask questions,

they are just trying to understand so they can then get on with playing

together or whatever - it is not condescending, or judgmental, or pitying or

any of those things that adults seem to do; it is matter-of-fact. But

learning how our comments impact how other's feel is an important

developmental social skill. Perhaps you could preface the discussion with

the adult, and say Aubrie tends to like to ask a lot of questions, so she

can understand her friend's better,, is that okay with you? Model asking

permission to ask questions as the desired social behavior. Far more

appropriate than shushing her and teaching her to pretend there is nothing

different or worse just pulling her away.

So many interesting things we face with these insightful young people.

Kim

> A new issue is coming up in our lives and I'm wondering how others have

> handled it. One of our pals from horseback riding has a degenerative syndrome

> and has been declining over the past several years. He was airlifted to the

> hospital a few days ago. I am afraid the time is coming when we will be

> dealing with the death of a friend.

>

> Aubrie is only 8, but she has a huge heart. She's seen me mourn the loss of

> friends and help others who are grieving for lost loved ones. She will want

> to be a part of supporting this boy's family. Do I let her attend a

> visitation or funeral?? Do we just send a card or flowers together? How do

> you handle it when your child will undoubtedly see her peers die??

>

> Another very close pal of hers is in the same grade and has a form of muscular

> dystrophy that is degenerative. This friends is also starting to decline in

> her motor skills. Instead of continuing to improve as Aubrie will, this

> friend will require a wheelchair and many other supports someday. She may not

> live a long adult life.

>

> Even if it's not the death of child friends, it is just handling the declining

> skills of friends. And she asks questions when we are with disabled peers

> about their disability. The first question is always " Is so-and-so deaf? " .

> Then " Can so-and-so walk ok? " This weekend, she asked how old and in what

> grade was the child. That was uncomfortable for the mom cuz this child is in

> a special class and is not on typical grade level so she prefers not to think

> in terms of grade. So I just repeated to Aubrie his age and ignored the grade

> question. Luckily she didn't ask where he goes to school or anything. I

> don't want her to think that talking about disability is taboo, but she also

> needs to be aware of the other person's feelings -- which isn't always

> predictable.

>

> I am still muddling this over in my mind. Any thoughts??

>

>

>

>

> Michele Westmaas

> mom to Aubrie 7 yrs CHaRgE and 13 yrs, wife to DJ

>

>

[Guest guest]

Michele,

Last year we lost an uncle who was very close to ...he had been sick for a

very long time and loved to go visit...I did not know how we would handle

this.... is very intuitive and knew something was wrong...This uncle was

friends with my dad's since they were in Elementary school and as a bonus he

married my dad's sister....Lifetime friends... comforted my dad by saying

that we would remember All of the happy times we had with uncle ....

understood on some level but felt he had some things he still needed to say

... I did not have him attend the wake or the funeral because my dad was so

sad.So he decided that he would like to write a note...but How would it get to

heaven he asked...so we deal with the abstract.... then had an idea to

attach the note to a white balloon and release it and it would fly to

heaven....So on the day of the funeral after we got home ... and I sat down

....he decided to write 2 notes...1 to Uncle to say he loved

him...the other to God to ask him to take care of him....It was a cloudy rainy

day...but as we stood on the deck and had a few words to say...and released

them...we could not have scripted it better but the the clouds opened up and a

small ray of sun appeared and the 2 balloons entered heaven...We told my cousin

because his children were inconsolable...they were not sleeping ...there was so

much to tell their grampa...They each released a balloon with a note ....kids

are resiliant and they bounce back quickly....I also realize that it was

probably not the most ecologically responsible thing but I tried to tell

we could send it other ways however they did not work for him....the visual on

the balloons with the sky opening was what needed for closure...

A few months ago we lost a family friend to a car accident in Sardinia on his

way home from a well deserved vacation.... did not want to send up a balloon

but he felt he wanted to send a picture of and " Red " to his wife....She

has not been able to open and look at it but hopes some day she will...

I cannot believe " tuned in " is...I think dealing with the passing of anyone

is hard...but as has I am sure Aubrie too will guide you....

Ellen mom to 8

[Guest guest]

Can I share a little story with you. When I was young, exactly

Aubrie;s age actualy. My closest grandparent died. He had been sick

for a very long time yet noone told me untill he had all ready

passed away. I was devistated that my grandfather had died but noone

told me.

I think you should tell her (very gently of cource) how her friend

has a type of dissorder that makes her body very sick and that she

might not live as long as aubrie. Tell Aubrie its important to be a

friend to this person. Its up to you , if you decide to tell

Aubrie or not, but I think it might be better to tell her then for

her friend to suddenly dissapear one day and find out months or

years later that her friend died.

Chantelle

>

> A new issue is coming up in our lives and I'm wondering how others

have handled it. One of our pals from horseback riding has a

degenerative syndrome and has been declining over the past several

years. He was airlifted to the hospital a few days ago. I am

afraid the time is coming when we will be dealing with the death of

a friend.

>

> Aubrie is only 8, but she has a huge heart. She's seen me mourn

the loss of friends and help others who are grieving for lost loved

ones. She will want to be a part of supporting this boy's family.

Do I let her attend a visitation or funeral?? Do we just send a

card or flowers together? How do you handle it when your child will

undoubtedly see her peers die??

>

> Another very close pal of hers is in the same grade and has a form

of muscular dystrophy that is degenerative. This friends is also

starting to decline in her motor skills. Instead of continuing to

improve as Aubrie will, this friend will require a wheelchair and

many other supports someday. She may not live a long adult life.

>

> Even if it's not the death of child friends, it is just handling

the declining skills of friends. And she asks questions when we are

with disabled peers about their disability. The first question is

always " Is so-and-so deaf? " . Then " Can so-and-so walk ok? " This

weekend, she asked how old and in what grade was the child. That

was uncomfortable for the mom cuz this child is in a special class

and is not on typical grade level so she prefers not to think in

terms of grade. So I just repeated to Aubrie his age and ignored

the grade question. Luckily she didn't ask where he goes to school

or anything. I don't want her to think that talking about

disability is taboo, but she also needs to be aware of the other

person's feelings -- which isn't always predictable.

>

> I am still muddling this over in my mind. Any thoughts??

>

>

>

>

> Michele Westmaas

> mom to Aubrie 7 yrs CHaRgE and 13 yrs, wife to DJ

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chantelle-

I absolutely agree with you. Finding the best way to tell her is what I find

difficult. But, you know, even at her young age, I trust in Aubrie's heart and

in her ability to understand even such a difficult concept as death. She's

truly an old soul with deeper understandings than I would ever imagine for a

child her age.

Michele

peppermint_chey wrote:

Can I share a little story with you. When I was young, exactly

Aubrie;s age actualy. My closest grandparent died. He had been sick

for a very long time yet noone told me untill he had all ready

passed away. I was devistated that my grandfather had died but noone

told me.

I think you should tell her (very gently of cource) how her friend

has a type of dissorder that makes her body very sick and that she

might not live as long as aubrie. Tell Aubrie its important to be a

friend to this person. Its up to you , if you decide to tell

Aubrie or not, but I think it might be better to tell her then for

her friend to suddenly dissapear one day and find out months or

years later that her friend died.

Chantelle

>

> A new issue is coming up in our lives and I'm wondering how others

have handled it. One of our pals from horseback riding has a

degenerative syndrome and has been declining over the past several

years. He was airlifted to the hospital a few days ago. I am

afraid the time is coming when we will be dealing with the death of

a friend.

>

> Aubrie is only 8, but she has a huge heart. She's seen me mourn

the loss of friends and help others who are grieving for lost loved

ones. She will want to be a part of supporting this boy's family.

Do I let her attend a visitation or funeral?? Do we just send a

card or flowers together? How do you handle it when your child will

undoubtedly see her peers die??

>

> Another very close pal of hers is in the same grade and has a form

of muscular dystrophy that is degenerative. This friends is also

starting to decline in her motor skills. Instead of continuing to

improve as Aubrie will, this friend will require a wheelchair and

many other supports someday. She may not live a long adult life.

>

> Even if it's not the death of child friends, it is just handling

the declining skills of friends. And she asks questions when we are

with disabled peers about their disability. The first question is

always " Is so-and-so deaf? " . Then " Can so-and-so walk ok? " This

weekend, she asked how old and in what grade was the child. That

was uncomfortable for the mom cuz this child is in a special class

and is not on typical grade level so she prefers not to think in

terms of grade. So I just repeated to Aubrie his age and ignored

the grade question. Luckily she didn't ask where he goes to school

or anything. I don't want her to think that talking about

disability is taboo, but she also needs to be aware of the other

person's feelings -- which isn't always predictable.

>

> I am still muddling this over in my mind. Any thoughts??

>

>

>

>

> Michele Westmaas

> mom to Aubrie 7 yrs CHaRgE and 13 yrs, wife to DJ

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kim-

As always, your thoughts are so helpful. I hadn't thought to ask permission to

ask questions. Duh! Isn't it funny how we sometimes can't see the forest

through the trees?

These are very interesting and complex situations for a young child. I am sure,

with the suggestions from all of you, that we will find a way to make the best

of each of these things and manage them at least relatively well. If one

situation doesn't go so well, we'll learn from it and do better next time. But

I do feel better equipped to start off on the right foot.

Michele W

[Guest guest]

Ellen-

What a beautiful story! I am confident that Aubrie will " get it " just as

did when the time comes. It may not be an adult understanding, but it is a full

and complete understanding. Come to think of it, maybe it is more than an adult

understanding. It's a true internal understanding without the adult words and

emotions to jumble it up!

Michele W

[Guest guest]

Michele,

I have agonized over this issue for several years. We've always had lots of

pets, and that's when the issue first came up. I remember seeing dead

squirrels at Perkins and almost begging 's first teachers to show

them to her, help her.

had two beloved old folks: my mother and " Mrs. , " our

neighbor; actually made up her own sign name for the latter:

grandmother but signed with a B. Both women died while was at

Perkins. I toyed with the idea of flying K. to New Orleans for my mother's

funeral, but K had her 6-8 hour MRI and CAT scans only 4 days before

Mama died, and I'd been flying between Boston, New Orleans, and

Springfield. I told about the deaths but it was quite awhile before I

understood the degree of her understanding.

and I were in our back yard one day when she signed for Mrs. B. I

was at a loss but signed that she was dead. asked something, don't

remember what, and I signed that she was " finished. " How hard and cruel

that sounds now. Next, K. asked for her grandmother, and I repeated

everything. She turned from me and curled up so sadly on our glider in

the yard. I don't know what she knew, but she knew.

I've been tempted for these last few years to take her to my mother's

tomb in N.O. but have decided that I just shouldn't. Completely aside from

the hurricane, when I was last at the cemetary (and there must be 10 or

more by our family's crypt), I kept repeating to Andy that we were in the city

of the dead. The family tomb really resembles a house, and I cannot think

of what I'd say to about that.

I think I've wanted to get this off of my chest for the last 4 years.

What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that our kiddos get a heck of a lot more

than many people think --- and they certainly hurt a great deal when

someone they love dies. I sat on the glider with for a very long time.

She still signs about both women, but it's somehow different.

Martha

[Guest guest]

Martha-

What a difficult situation for both you and . DIstance complicates things

so much. My kids have never attended a funeral for a family member because we

are 4 hours away and haven't made the trip for the few who've passed in recent

years. Services are usually midweek at a time when we have obligations that

can't easily be changed last minute. Of course, it's never been someone so

close that there's no question that you " go to the trouble " . How heartless does

that sound? Ouch! Hopefully you get what I mean. Anyway, even my 14-yr-old

hasn't been to any services. He needs to get to something soon as a practice

run before it's his grandparent or something. He's not nearly as tender-hearted

as Aubrie so it won't be so traumatic. But for her, it's gonna be big -- but I

do think she'll get it in a profound way but in her own way.

I hope things work themselves out in this area for you and K. I don't know what

the situation would be that would help work things out, but I'm sure it's not

something you can plan or create -- but something that will just have to

happen-- and opportunity you'll recognize when it comes.

Michele W

[Guest guest]

Michele, as always such a nice, " feeling, " if you will, post. Thinking of your

older child. Hmm. Our had never been to a funeral until her

grandmother died. E. was in college at the time at Carleton, had flown

down to visit her " Mince " shortly before she died. My mother was a

character - had taught anatomy at Tulane Med in early years but smoked

like a furnace (we literally buried her with her smokes - at 90, why should

she have quit). When she was diagnosed with mouth cancer, it was as

though she thought she had a STD.

But I ramble. My mother stressed that she didn't want a true funeral, just

to have us all sing Silent Night. We didn't have a minister or priest; a

wonderful man from Hospice handled things --- and asked for family and

friends to stand and share my mother. E. detests my sister-in-law, who

had gone on and on about my mother as a southern belle. Well, ole E.

stood up before God and all of us and said how her Mince had led her to

Africa, had encouraged her to dare to be herself. She was harsh in a way

but oh so beautiful. I learned much about my own mother that day from

. The impact that little woman had on and was

enormous. E. could get some of it out by standing up and talking.

needed to sit on the glider and cry with me.

Again and again, I think ALL of our kids amaze us.

And as I think I said earlier, I've held this in too darn long.

Martha

P.S. E. phoned tonight to opine that Andy and I are getting old and need

a regular dr, not just the university clinic. And now I do feel old.

Sorry about rambling so, but this is an issue we'll all face.

[Guest guest]

Martha-

Rambling is good. I sometimes enjoy the ramblings more than the purposeful

posts...

Gotta run without much of a thoughtful reply... getting to bed for the big

interview in the am. It just occured to me that I should review the agency

website one more time!

Michele W

[Guest guest]

Michele,

Good luck or break a leg. Well, you know what I mean! Martha

[Guest guest]

Michele,

Roy's interview went great today. He said they were both a little slack

jawed, meaning he wowed them and I KNOW you will do the same thing tomorrow.

They will be thinking to them selves, " How did we get so lucky to have this

person come and apply. "

I wanted to wish you good thoughts and a happy birthday in the am, but then

again you likely won't check it until after the interview, so Happy happy

Birthday and here's to wowing them.

Kim

> Martha-

> Rambling is good. I sometimes enjoy the ramblings more than the purposeful

> posts...

>

> Gotta run without much of a thoughtful reply... getting to bed for the big

> interview in the am. It just occured to me that I should review the agency

> website one more time!

>

> Michele W

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

What a powerful story Martha, and how much we all hate the thought of death

as " finished " and avoid it word by saying things like passed on, we lost

someone and so on, but avoid the words dead, died, finished, and those of

multiple faiths believe they will see their loved ones again. Finished is

just too much at times, but sounds like what needed to make it clear

for her. No way to attempt to soften it, and in fact confuse it for her.

She understood and she was able to deal with her emotion of it.

And you are right it will come up again, like it does for all of us.

I am glad you were able to talk it through a bit more tonight.

Kim

> Michele, as always such a nice, " feeling, " if you will, post. Thinking of

> your

> older child. Hmm. Our had never been to a funeral until her

> grandmother died. E. was in college at the time at Carleton, had flown

> down to visit her " Mince " shortly before she died. My mother was a

> character - had taught anatomy at Tulane Med in early years but smoked

> like a furnace (we literally buried her with her smokes - at 90, why should

> she have quit). When she was diagnosed with mouth cancer, it was as

> though she thought she had a STD.

> But I ramble. My mother stressed that she didn't want a true funeral, just

> to have us all sing Silent Night. We didn't have a minister or priest; a

> wonderful man from Hospice handled things --- and asked for family and

> friends to stand and share my mother. E. detests my sister-in-law, who

> had gone on and on about my mother as a southern belle. Well, ole E.

> stood up before God and all of us and said how her Mince had led her to

> Africa, had encouraged her to dare to be herself. She was harsh in a way

> but oh so beautiful. I learned much about my own mother that day from

> . The impact that little woman had on and was

> enormous. E. could get some of it out by standing up and talking.

> needed to sit on the glider and cry with me.

> Again and again, I think ALL of our kids amaze us.

> And as I think I said earlier, I've held this in too darn long.

> Martha

> P.S. E. phoned tonight to opine that Andy and I are getting old and need

> a regular dr, not just the university clinic. And now I do feel old.

> Sorry about rambling so, but this is an issue we'll all face.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This post comes with profound timing. There is a person who came into our

live a short while ago who suddenly passed away yesterday. I guess that was the

reason for my long post. She was a remarkable woman whose spirit filled a

room. Patty handled hearing the news very well. At first she reacted the same

as I did, just shock.

But then she came about it in a Patty way. Patty has great faith and great

vision. She knows this woman is now being held and loved in heaven. I was so

worried about Patty but she took it well. We'll see what today brings though.

This woman was one of those people you meet once in your life.

Bonnie, mom to a 23, Patty CHARGE 21, and wife to

[Guest guest]

mmmmmm michelle i am one being a frequent hosptial person have seen many

deaths two close firend s i remember one night well they both ad cf and i

was often with a few cfs at a time well one nighnt i remember this girl had

been quite sick and we all knew her end was near she was in a single room

and mum and another mum well they wont mind if i use names im sure:) well

they went into the room to talk drink wine u know celebrate be there witht

he family and the nurses turned my lights out i went to sleep then i woke up

my hearing aides were out i just opended my eyes and saw in the bed next to

me was my other firned whos mum went into the room with my mum sititng there

with another girl doing jigsaws and there was her mum sitting in a chair

next to the bed im like lying there starting at her think i said love you

wheres mum course i knew she was gonan drive my mum home as she stays with

her mum when they are down and her mum lives near us so i was like has mum

gone what time is it i looked at the clock 11pm and i looked at her and i

was like love you what r u doing there night love you night love you im sure

she was saying our friend was on her way out and shed come to check on us as

they were going but i didnt hear her but i knwo she looked at me adn im like

xxxx love you night love you night then went to sleep ten woke up and the

nurses said shed gone but she was giving me my aids i resisted them i feels

sure i knew course i was like knwo she was like yes here here im like oh

then ohhhhhhhhhhhhh then a couple of years later another cf firned was in a

hosptial in the country the same mum had been speaking to mum and the ward

had known i remember one of the nurses doing anitbiotic im like im going up

to see her im going with clare and annemarie she said now you arent they are

not ther ethey are home and you in here and then rach had gone and the rest

of us went to the funeral and then i ended up in hosp it was wierd but good

its like when people die for me i want to say bye and when they wouldnt let

me i say oh well when dads mum went they gave me her jewels remmber piling

them on me lol well i rambled of course as usualy do well michelle give

aubrie a hug for me and tell ehr bout what her friends have got i remember

once another boy at school was gonna die our teacher acutaly spent a hole

perieold talking bout it and making sure we understood our problems to and

she said not only doyou need to understand your disability but you need to

understand a bit of others coursse it can help you one day and i agree with

ehr its what we all say in here acutaly when she asked us what we knew i was

the one that knew the most course of all of you this group infac t i said

that she said thats great for u hugs ellen

>

> What a powerful story Martha, and how much we all hate the thought of

> death

> as " finished " and avoid it word by saying things like passed on, we lost

> someone and so on, but avoid the words dead, died, finished, and those of

> multiple faiths believe they will see their loved ones again. Finished is

> just too much at times, but sounds like what needed to make it clear

> for her. No way to attempt to soften it, and in fact confuse it for her.

> She understood and she was able to deal with her emotion of it.

>

> And you are right it will come up again, like it does for all of us.

>

> I am glad you were able to talk it through a bit more tonight.

>

> Kim

>

>

>

>

> > Michele, as always such a nice, " feeling, " if you will, post. Thinking

> of

> > your

> > older child. Hmm. Our had never been to a funeral until her

> > grandmother died. E. was in college at the time at Carleton, had flown

> > down to visit her " Mince " shortly before she died. My mother was a

> > character - had taught anatomy at Tulane Med in early years but smoked

> > like a furnace (we literally buried her with her smokes - at 90, why

> should

> > she have quit). When she was diagnosed with mouth cancer, it was as

> > though she thought she had a STD.

> > But I ramble. My mother stressed that she didn't want a true funeral,

> just

> > to have us all sing Silent Night. We didn't have a minister or priest; a

> > wonderful man from Hospice handled things --- and asked for family and

> > friends to stand and share my mother. E. detests my sister-in-law, who

> > had gone on and on about my mother as a southern belle. Well, ole E.

> > stood up before God and all of us and said how her Mince had led her to

> > Africa, had encouraged her to dare to be herself. She was harsh in a way

> > but oh so beautiful. I learned much about my own mother that day from

> > . The impact that little woman had on and was

> > enormous. E. could get some of it out by standing up and talking.

> > needed to sit on the glider and cry with me.

> > Again and again, I think ALL of our kids amaze us.

> > And as I think I said earlier, I've held this in too darn long.

> > Martha

> > P.S. E. phoned tonight to opine that Andy and I are getting old and need

> > a regular dr, not just the university clinic. And now I do feel old.

> > Sorry about rambling so, but this is an issue we'll all face.

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

acutaly michelle forgot to add a link for you and aubrie and others to who

are having this www.fairysparkle.com <http://www.fairysparkle.com> fairy is

a lady out here who helps sick kids and theres a stroy in there bout angels

that aubrie and you both might like hugs ellen

>

> mmmmmm michelle i am one being a frequent hosptial person have seen many

> deaths two close firend s i remember one night well they both ad cf and i

> was often with a few cfs at a time well one nighnt i remember this girl had

> been quite sick and we all knew her end was near she was in a single room

> and mum and another mum well they wont mind if i use names im sure:) well

> they went into the room to talk drink wine u know celebrate be there witht

> he family and the nurses turned my lights out i went to sleep then i woke up

> my hearing aides were out i just opended my eyes and saw in the bed next to

> me was my other firned whos mum went into the room with my mum sititng there

> with another girl doing jigsaws and there was her mum sitting in a chair

> next to the bed im like lying there starting at her think i said love you

> wheres mum course i knew she was gonan drive my mum home as she stays with

> her mum when they are down and her mum lives near us so i was like has mum

> gone what time is it i looked at the clock 11pm and i looked at her and i

> was like love you what r u doing there night love you night love you im sure

> she was saying our friend was on her way out and shed come to check on us as

> they were going but i didnt hear her but i knwo she looked at me adn im like

> xxxx love you night love you night then went to sleep ten woke up and the

> nurses said shed gone but she was giving me my aids i resisted them i feels

> sure i knew course i was like knwo she was like yes here here im like oh

> then ohhhhhhhhhhhhh then a couple of years later another cf firned was in a

> hosptial in the country the same mum had been speaking to mum and the ward

> had known i remember one of the nurses doing anitbiotic im like im going up

> to see her im going with clare and annemarie she said now you arent they are

> not ther ethey are home and you in here and then rach had gone and the rest

> of us went to the funeral and then i ended up in hosp it was wierd but good

> its like when people die for me i want to say bye and when they wouldnt let

> me i say oh well when dads mum went they gave me her jewels remmber piling

> them on me lol well i rambled of course as usualy do well michelle give

> aubrie a hug for me and tell ehr bout what her friends have got i remember

> once another boy at school was gonna die our teacher acutaly spent a hole

> perieold talking bout it and making sure we understood our problems to and

> she said not only doyou need to understand your disability but you need to

> understand a bit of others coursse it can help you one day and i agree with

> ehr its what we all say in here acutaly when she asked us what we knew i was

> the one that knew the most course of all of you this group infac t i said

> that she said thats great for u hugs ellen

>

>

> >

> > What a powerful story Martha, and how much we all hate the thought of

> > death

> > as " finished " and avoid it word by saying things like passed on, we lost

> >

> > someone and so on, but avoid the words dead, died, finished, and those

> > of

> > multiple faiths believe they will see their loved ones again. Finished

> > is

> > just too much at times, but sounds like what needed to make it

> > clear

> > for her. No way to attempt to soften it, and in fact confuse it for her.

> > She understood and she was able to deal with her emotion of it.

> >

> > And you are right it will come up again, like it does for all of us.

> >

> > I am glad you were able to talk it through a bit more tonight.

> >

> > Kim

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > Michele, as always such a nice, " feeling, " if you will, post. Thinking

> > of

> > > your

> > > older child. Hmm. Our had never been to a funeral until her

> > > grandmother died. E. was in college at the time at Carleton, had flown

> >

> > > down to visit her " Mince " shortly before she died. My mother was a

> > > character - had taught anatomy at Tulane Med in early years but smoked

> > > like a furnace (we literally buried her with her smokes - at 90, why

> > should

> > > she have quit). When she was diagnosed with mouth cancer, it was as

> > > though she thought she had a STD.

> > > But I ramble. My mother stressed that she didn't want a true funeral,

> > just

> > > to have us all sing Silent Night. We didn't have a minister or priest;

> > a

> > > wonderful man from Hospice handled things --- and asked for family and

> > > friends to stand and share my mother. E. detests my sister-in-law, who

> > > had gone on and on about my mother as a southern belle. Well, ole E.

> > > stood up before God and all of us and said how her Mince had led her

> > to

> > > Africa, had encouraged her to dare to be herself. She was harsh in a

> > way

> > > but oh so beautiful. I learned much about my own mother that day from

> > > . The impact that little woman had on and was

> > > enormous. E. could get some of it out by standing up and talking.

> >

> > > needed to sit on the glider and cry with me.

> > > Again and again, I think ALL of our kids amaze us.

> > > And as I think I said earlier, I've held this in too darn long.

> > > Martha

> > > P.S. E. phoned tonight to opine that Andy and I are getting old and

> > need

> > > a regular dr, not just the university clinic. And now I do feel old.

> > > Sorry about rambling so, but this is an issue we'll all face.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Michele,

Happy Birthday and Good luck!

pam

> ----------

> From: CHARGE on behalf of Michele Westmaas

> Reply To: CHARGE

> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:53 PM

> To: CHARGE List

> Subject: re: new issue

>

> Martha-

> Rambling is good. I sometimes enjoy the ramblings more than the purposeful

posts...

>

> Gotta run without much of a thoughtful reply... getting to bed for the big

interview in the am. It just occured to me that I should review the agency

website one more time!

>

> Michele W

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Michele,

I am not sure I can add much to what has already been said (especially with

Martha and Ellen's posts). It is always the hardest things for us as adults,

the think how we will share this news with the young ones. But.... as

showed, they are the ones that lead us.

Martha's post was especially close to my heart because it is often the young

people that we can't fully explain everything to that we worry the most about.

And what did K. do? exactly what she should do and with her mom--curl up, get

comfort, cry, and think in her own way about what this person meant to her.

I always recommend, despite understanding level, pictures of the person. Make

them available and talk about them the best one can. " Home made " story books,

too, can help with kids who need all the information and a place to put it all.

Aubrie is clever and thoughtful and this might be a nice way for her to " make a

tribute " as well as make herself feel better. She will surprise you (again!).

And talking about it. She will have a million questions--that is her job

(given her age and need to know). She probably doesn't need the details, but

what happens next--your faith will determine that (guardian angels, etc.) and

talking of others who have passed so she sees that this is a natural thing (not

that it is natural that a young person dies, but that it is part of life). I am

remembering a story from when my Goddaughter's lost their grandmother (they were

Aubrie's age). They had just see " The Lion King " and the song, " Circle of LIfe "

was their favorite. They immediately linked it all and sang that song for

themselves several times (their grandmother, a VERY proper woman with acting in

her background would have been more than thrilled at the " show " ) and it made a

difference for them. Their little sister was 4 and did not really get the whole

thing (given her age) but she looked at pictures of her grandmother, talked of

visiting her and the dress she got for Christmas and how much she hated Granny's

dog. Those worked for her.

Aubrie will guide, I have no doubt!

pam

[Guest guest]

Michele,

What a great subject to bring up at this time in 's life,

as well. From what I have gathered, Aubrie and are alike in

many ways, though is Non-Verbal. is

developmentally at Aubrie's level, if not younger,and understands the

deather of a loved one (her Grandma) and the process of what her Mom

is going through.

When 's Grandma was alive, she was the one who always took

care of her, until she became sick and passed away.

understood that if she walked into her house and put on a big t shirt

then she was going to get to spend the night. It was tough for

at first, we had to take different routes home (even the

school bus) to avoid going past Grandma's house, she would get upset

because she wanted to go there and couldn't.

Right after her Grandma passed away, I began taking care of her (10

years ago) and unfortunately lived in the same housing development as

her Grandma did, you had to drive by her place to get to mine.

Suprisingly, this wasn't a problem! understood Grandma

wasn't there and she was going to put a big t shirt on at my house.

I don't know that she forgot about it but really just think that she

knew Grandma wasn't around any more, but that acrodd the lake was

still somebody that took care of her.

My Grandpa passed away 4 years ago and I was living with her family

at the time. She understands sorrow and emotion, though usually

thinks that when someone is crying it's because they are being hurt.

She goes to the cementary and helps me put flowers on his grave, I

tell her that we are going to see " Grandpa. " She accepts this. When

in school, was in a class with kids in wheelchairs and

medical conditions. She had a friend pass away then and didn't

really know how to deal with the fact that the students and aides

where all upset, but participated in a class Memorial Service.

As for her Mom, she doesn't have long to live, she isn't doing

well and sees this every day. She goes along with it, when

her Mom is sleeping all day and I am not there, she does her own

thing, whether it's getting into things pr just sitting on the

couch. She'll curl up with her Mom now, she has never liked doing

that before. She doesn't like being held because, I think, it

reminds her too much of being in the hospital, but will now lay down

with Mom. Darlene spends her days crying in pain and sees

this, yet when you tell her someone is sick she thinks that medicine

solves everything.

understands so much more then others know and maybe Aubrie

will too. Take it slow, I say visit the hospital or friend,

liked going to see my Grandpa but then would want a room of her own.

Have her pick out the flowers and make a card.

Sorry this is so long and jumbled, I really didn't know how to say

this stuf but it's such and importnat issue in our lives right now

and I am also trying to figure out how to deal with this and

. Afterall, she has been living with her parents's again and

sees Mom everyday and Mom is nothing like Grandma, of whom she

signs " Grandma " for .

, caregiver to , CHARGE 25

[Guest guest]

,

this is beautiful.

pam

[Guest guest]

Pam-

Thanks for all the thoughtful suggestions and examples. She doesn't seem to

upset that her friend is in the hospital and quite ill. Her comment was " maybe

he'll be in the hospital all year " . It's almost too common place and

matter-of-fact for her. Gosh, I hate for her to be traumatized by illness,

tradegy, surgeries etc but I also don't want her to be so used to it all that

it's just no big deal if someone is in the hospital.

Michele W

[Guest guest]

Ellen-

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I agree that it's important to understand

the issues facing your friends. I mean, how can you be a good friend if you

don't understand what the other person is dealing with? I will continue to

share with Aubrie as much as she can handle at her age -- and at each age along

the way. It helps so much to have you guys who have been there.

Michele Westmaas

mom to Aubrie 7 yrs CHaRgE and 13 yrs, wife to DJ

[Guest guest]

Gosh, Bonnie. I'm so sorry for your loss. Those special people who can touch

you so deeply in such a short time -- what a shame to lose someone so special so

soon. I'm sure there is a whole community of people who are grieving with you.

Hugs-

Michele Westmaas

mom to Aubrie 7 yrs CHaRgE and 13 yrs, wife to DJ

[Guest guest]

You know, Michele, it is interesting to think of the " blaise " attitude about

being in the hospital.. She has been through all of that and comes out fine, so

probably the idea of her friend being in hospital is " no big thing " because she

is fine, she the friend will be, too.

pam

[Guest guest]

-

What a complicated life for such a young woman! has had to deal with

so much in changing caregivers and losing them. I can't imagine any child

having to watch their parent go thru a terminal illness. I was with my father

thru his brain cancer, but I didn't live with him at the end. And I was an

adult. A young adult/child like -- how difficult! I love the image of

her cuddling up on the couch with her mom. That must be so meaningful to her

mom -- and bittersweet, I would guess.

I don't suppose we will find any concrete answers thru this discussion, but it

sure helps us each to talk it thru and share what has worked for each of us.

Michele Westmaas

mom to Aubrie 7 yrs CHaRgE and 13 yrs, wife to DJ