Re: NC question

[Guest guest]

it just kind of happened..nada has been extra nasty to me the past several

years, and I got fed up with it...she had a heart attack last oct, and was

furious with me because I didn't drop everything and run to her bedside ( I

live 400+ miles away) My oldest brother ( her favorite) went, but neither I

nor my 2 sisters did...I'm the only one she got made at ( they were the ones

who decided to retire and move so far away from everyone) She expected us

for Christmas ( I don't know why, I did not tell her we'd go, or even think

of going there) none of us kids were there for Christmas, again, she was

furious with me only...in march they called and belittled me told me I was a

terrible daughter ( didn't matter how many times I DID go there when they

needed me...) and that really pissed me off, so...no mothers day call.card

as she's a terrible mother, no fathers day call/card as he's turned on me

and was just as nasty as she was...they have not called/contacted me, and I

will not call/contact them...and it will remain this way unless they

apologize ( which they have never ever done for anything) which aint gonna

happen LOL.

Jackie

I am wondering for those of you who decided to go NC; how did you do it? I

wrote a letter.

I basically wrote that I wouldn't be around. However, part of me feels I

should be around in an emergency (like death or serious illness). My Nada is

49, so it may be awhile before something like this happens.

However; being around in case of an emergency may be difficult because I

live farther than other people, and I would have to have either one of my

sisters, or my uncle email be about it since I changed my phone number.

-Joy

[Guest guest]

I noticed you said your nada never apologizes. Mine uses apologizing as a " get

out of jail free " card.

When Sister and I were little nada would behave horribly (throw a raging tantrum

and beat Sister and me) then (sometimes) apologize for it, quite profusely,

while crying piteously and promising never to do that to us again. Sister and

I were then supposed to comfort *her* and forgive her; never mind that we were

still in shock and trembling with pain and fear, we were supposed to comfort

nada.

However, nada would forget her promise later that same day, or next week, or

whenever.

She still does this, sometimes: the apologizing. But sure enough, afterward she

denies having said the horrible thing, or having apologized (if she never said

the horrible thing to begin with, then there was no need for an apology:

bpd-universe logic.)

*Appearing* remorseful is just a behavior she's learned to mimic; she's learned

that she can use it in an emergency to shield her from our outrage. How can

Sister and I be angry with her when she has apologized? " I'm sorry, " she

blubbers. That wipes her slate clean, in her mind; she must believe it makes

her perfect again.

-Annie

>

> it just kind of happened..nada has been extra nasty to me the past several

> years, and I got fed up with it...she had a heart attack last oct, and was

> furious with me because I didn't drop everything and run to her bedside ( I

> live 400+ miles away) My oldest brother ( her favorite) went, but neither I

> nor my 2 sisters did...I'm the only one she got made at ( they were the ones

> who decided to retire and move so far away from everyone) She expected us

> for Christmas ( I don't know why, I did not tell her we'd go, or even think

> of going there) none of us kids were there for Christmas, again, she was

> furious with me only...in march they called and belittled me told me I was a

> terrible daughter ( didn't matter how many times I DID go there when they

> needed me...) and that really pissed me off, so...no mothers day call.card

> as she's a terrible mother, no fathers day call/card as he's turned on me

> and was just as nasty as she was...they have not called/contacted me, and I

> will not call/contact them...and it will remain this way unless they

> apologize ( which they have never ever done for anything) which aint gonna

> happen LOL.

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> I am wondering for those of you who decided to go NC; how did you do it? I

> wrote a letter.

>

> I basically wrote that I wouldn't be around. However, part of me feels I

> should be around in an emergency (like death or serious illness). My Nada is

> 49, so it may be awhile before something like this happens.

>

> However; being around in case of an emergency may be difficult because I

> live farther than other people, and I would have to have either one of my

> sisters, or my uncle email be about it since I changed my phone number.

>

> -Joy

>

[Guest guest]

I have never seen nada cry...except if she thought it might lead her to

getting her own way " oh, boo hoo hoo, nothing ever goes right for me, no one

loves me, every one treats me so terrible " but with all her wailing and

carrying on, she may produce one tear...usually not even one...how fake is

that ?? Nada never apologized to us ..even when she beat me and I didn't do

anything wrong, it was one of my other siblings...and she found out and beat

them too..then I'd say " shouldn't you tell me you're sorry ? " and she'd

scream " NO, that was for something you got away with that I didn't find out

about !! "

Jackie

I noticed you said your nada never apologizes. Mine uses apologizing as a

" get out of jail free " card.

When Sister and I were little nada would behave horribly (throw a raging

tantrum and beat Sister and me) then (sometimes) apologize for it, quite

profusely, while crying piteously and promising never to do that to us

again. Sister and I were then supposed to comfort *her* and forgive her;

never mind that we were still in shock and trembling with pain and fear, we

were supposed to comfort nada.

However, nada would forget her promise later that same day, or next week, or

whenever.

She still does this, sometimes: the apologizing. But sure enough, afterward

she denies having said the horrible thing, or having apologized (if she

never said the horrible thing to begin with, then there was no need for an

apology: bpd-universe logic.)

*Appearing* remorseful is just a behavior she's learned to mimic; she's

learned that she can use it in an emergency to shield her from our outrage.

How can Sister and I be angry with her when she has apologized? " I'm

sorry, " she blubbers. That wipes her slate clean, in her mind; she must

believe it makes her perfect again.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

That's horrible, Jackie.

>

> I have never seen nada cry...except if she thought it might lead her to

> getting her own way " oh, boo hoo hoo, nothing ever goes right for me, no one

> loves me, every one treats me so terrible " but with all her wailing and

> carrying on, she may produce one tear...usually not even one...how fake is

> that ?? Nada never apologized to us ..even when she beat me and I didn't do

> anything wrong, it was one of my other siblings...and she found out and beat

> them too..then I'd say " shouldn't you tell me you're sorry ? " and she'd

> scream " NO, that was for something you got away with that I didn't find out

> about !! "

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> I noticed you said your nada never apologizes. Mine uses apologizing as a

> " get out of jail free " card.

>

> When Sister and I were little nada would behave horribly (throw a raging

> tantrum and beat Sister and me) then (sometimes) apologize for it, quite

> profusely, while crying piteously and promising never to do that to us

> again. Sister and I were then supposed to comfort *her* and forgive her;

> never mind that we were still in shock and trembling with pain and fear, we

> were supposed to comfort nada.

>

> However, nada would forget her promise later that same day, or next week, or

> whenever.

>

> She still does this, sometimes: the apologizing. But sure enough, afterward

> she denies having said the horrible thing, or having apologized (if she

> never said the horrible thing to begin with, then there was no need for an

> apology: bpd-universe logic.)

>

> *Appearing* remorseful is just a behavior she's learned to mimic; she's

> learned that she can use it in an emergency to shield her from our outrage.

> How can Sister and I be angry with her when she has apologized? " I'm

> sorry, " she blubbers. That wipes her slate clean, in her mind; she must

> believe it makes her perfect again.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

I think my nada's crying is fake, too. Its just a different style of fake.

Or, well... another way to put it is that I think my nada cries out of profound

feelings of pity for herself. She is genuinely feeling sad and upset but its

for her own self, not because she feels (or ever felt) real empathy for our

pain, or because she's actually sorry that she hurt us even though that's what

she's saying.

I believe that whatever my nada feels in the moment is quite real to her, but

when her mood changes again or the danger has passed she either (A) doesn't have

the capacity to retain a memory of feeling empathy or remorse -or- ( she

simply doesn't care to remember saying " I'm sorry " because that reminds her that

she isn't perfect or perfectly right all the time.

Or both. Maybe its both an issue of bpd cognitive disability (bad brain wiring)

AND choosing to not deal with an upsetting memory. Either way, its just

frustrating as hell, maddening (ha!)in fact, to try and have a rational, adult

relationship with someone who is not rational.

-Annie

>

> I have never seen nada cry...except if she thought it might lead her to

> getting her own way " oh, boo hoo hoo, nothing ever goes right for me, no one

> loves me, every one treats me so terrible " but with all her wailing and

> carrying on, she may produce one tear...usually not even one...how fake is

> that ?? Nada never apologized to us ..even when she beat me and I didn't do

> anything wrong, it was one of my other siblings...and she found out and beat

> them too..then I'd say " shouldn't you tell me you're sorry ? " and she'd

> scream " NO, that was for something you got away with that I didn't find out

> about !! "

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> I noticed you said your nada never apologizes. Mine uses apologizing as a

> " get out of jail free " card.

>

> When Sister and I were little nada would behave horribly (throw a raging

> tantrum and beat Sister and me) then (sometimes) apologize for it, quite

> profusely, while crying piteously and promising never to do that to us

> again. Sister and I were then supposed to comfort *her* and forgive her;

> never mind that we were still in shock and trembling with pain and fear, we

> were supposed to comfort nada.

>

> However, nada would forget her promise later that same day, or next week, or

> whenever.

>

> She still does this, sometimes: the apologizing. But sure enough, afterward

> she denies having said the horrible thing, or having apologized (if she

> never said the horrible thing to begin with, then there was no need for an

> apology: bpd-universe logic.)

>

> *Appearing* remorseful is just a behavior she's learned to mimic; she's

> learned that she can use it in an emergency to shield her from our outrage.

> How can Sister and I be angry with her when she has apologized? " I'm

> sorry, " she blubbers. That wipes her slate clean, in her mind; she must

> believe it makes her perfect again.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I noticed you said your nada never apologizes. Mine uses apologizing as a

" get out of jail free " card.

>

> When Sister and I were little nada would behave horribly (throw a raging

tantrum and beat Sister and me) then (sometimes) apologize for it, quite

profusely, while crying piteously and promising never to do that to us again.

Sister and I were then supposed to comfort *her* and forgive her; never mind

that we were still in shock and trembling with pain and fear, we were supposed

to comfort nada.

>

> However, nada would forget her promise later that same day, or next week, or

whenever.

>

> She still does this, sometimes: the apologizing. But sure enough, afterward

she denies having said the horrible thing, or having apologized (if she never

said the horrible thing to begin with, then there was no need for an apology:

bpd-universe logic.)

>

> *Appearing* remorseful is just a behavior she's learned to mimic; she's

learned that she can use it in an emergency to shield her from our outrage. How

can Sister and I be angry with her when she has apologized? " I'm sorry, " she

blubbers. That wipes her slate clean, in her mind; she must believe it makes

her perfect again.

>

> -Annie

>

Annie, my mother does this sometimes too - the apologizing, but it is twisted

beyond reason. For example, she tells me that I did XYZ things wrong when I was

12 (yes, she still holds a grudge, for whatever childish innocent

transgressions, and she reaches more than 20 years back and still presents me

with accusations). Then when I tell her how she was behaving towards/around me

during that same time period, etc. she sometimes (although rarely) will actually

apologize and even sincerely, but then 20 minutes or a day or a week later she

will completely forget her apologies. When I remind her that she has actually

admitted to behaving a certain way towards me, she immediately launches into a

huge rant about how it was everyone else's fault, how her parents, her

ex-husband, her family, etc. had all put her in a situation where she had no

choice than to behave the way she did.

It is always someone else's fault.... Her apologies most often run along the

lines of " I'm sorry you had such a difficult time, but you have to realize that

it was 100 times worse for me. Your [insert-expletive]

father/husband/grandfather/[pick-a-scapegoat] was/is terrorizing me and putting

me and you in that situation. "

Arianna

[Guest guest]

thanks Joy...I have known for a LONG time ( 8th grade) that nada wasn't

" right " in the head...that something was really wrong with her...of course

she denies everything and says everyone around her is wrong and she's

right...but what's worse is my fada is in such denial too, and says none of

this ever happened, that we're lying for some reason..

Jackie

That's horrible, Jackie.

[Guest guest]

yeah, thats a different kind of fake crying....my nada uses it as a

manipulation tool... " cry and they'll give me what I want " .... " oh, boo hoo

hoo, you wont come for Christmas, and this may be my LAST Christmas...you

almost LOST me 2 months ago..boo hoo hoo I just want my FAMILY around me "

didn't work, so now she tries a different tactic, anger...I'm a terrible

daughter because I didn't want to leave my horses in the dead of winter

while we were having ice storms every few days to travel 400+ miles, and

make someone else travel the roads to my house 2X a day to look after the

horses....and lord help us if the power went out and the horse sitter was

due out for 12 hours !! the horses water would freeze up and they'd be

without....but nada thinks she should be more important...those animals are

my responsibility. and this is only directed at me...not at my 2 sisters or

1 brother...

Jackie

Or, well... another way to put it is that I think my nada cries out of

profound feelings of pity for herself. She is genuinely feeling sad and

upset but its for her own self, not because she feels (or ever felt) real

empathy for our pain, or because she's actually sorry that she hurt us even

though that's what she's saying.

I believe that whatever my nada feels in the moment is quite real to her,

but when her mood changes again or the danger has passed she either (A)

doesn't have the capacity to retain a memory of feeling empathy or

remorse -or- ( she simply doesn't care to remember saying " I'm sorry "

because that reminds her that she isn't perfect or perfectly right all the

time.

Or both. Maybe its both an issue of bpd cognitive disability (bad brain

wiring) AND choosing to not deal with an upsetting memory. Either way, its

just frustrating as hell, maddening (ha!)in fact, to try and have a

rational, adult relationship with someone who is not rational.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

nada does something similar to me too...reminds me of something 'terrible "

I did when I was 8 or 9 years old !! then gets mad at me all over again

about it !! Of course she never apologizes, but just to reinforce her

behavior, she'll say " well, you did XXX when you were 9!! " Then I'd say "

I was a CHILD, you're supposed to be an ADULT!! " that usually gets her so

angry, she shuts up and gives me the silent treatment ( which is a blessing

ever since I was in high school) And yes, it's ALWAYS someone else's

fault..they MADE her do it...I tell her no one can make her do anything she

doesn't want to do, so she must WANT to behave that way...again, the silent

treatment..I'm surprised she ever spoke to me at all LOL

Jackie ( and her big mouth that always got her into trouble)

she tells me that I did XYZ things wrong when I was 12 (yes, she still

holds a grudge, for whatever childish innocent transgressions, and she

reaches more than 20 years back and still presents me with accusations).

Then when I tell her how she was behaving towards/around me during that same

time period, etc. she sometimes (although rarely) will actually apologize

and even sincerely, but then 20 minutes or a day or a week later she will

completely forget her apologies. When I remind her that she has actually

admitted to behaving a certain way towards me, she immediately launches into

a huge rant about how it was everyone else's fault, how her parents, her

ex-husband, her family, etc. had all put her in a situation where she had no

choice than to behave the way she did.

It is always someone else's fault.... Her apologies most often run along the

lines of " I'm sorry you had such a difficult time, but you have to realize

that it was 100 times worse for me. Your [insert-expletive]

father/husband/grandfather/[pick-a-scapegoat] was/is terrorizing me and

putting me and you in that situation. "

Arianna

[Guest guest]

Mine apologizes but it is always aggressive. She uses it as a way to imply that

I am impossible and she is a victim, I don't know how to describe it.  She

barks out " I am sorry " in the most furious tone, and it sounds like " =)( YOU: " ,

usually followed by " if I am not perfect " or some smilar bs.

 

Jo

Subject: Re: Re: NC question

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 12:55 PM

I have never seen nada cry...except if she thought it might lead her to

getting her own way " oh, boo hoo hoo, nothing ever goes right for me, no one

loves me, every one treats me so terrible " but with all her wailing and

carrying on, she may produce one tear...usually not even one...how fake is

that ?? Nada never apologized to us ..even when she beat me and I didn't do

anything wrong, it was one of my other siblings...and she found out and beat

them too..then I'd say " shouldn't you tell me you're sorry ? " and she'd

scream " NO, that was for something you got away with that I didn't find out

about !! "

Jackie

I noticed you said your nada never apologizes. Mine uses apologizing as a

" get out of jail free " card.

When Sister and I were little nada would behave horribly (throw a raging

tantrum and beat Sister and me) then (sometimes) apologize for it, quite

profusely, while crying piteously and promising never to do that to us

again. Sister and I were then supposed to comfort *her* and forgive her;

never mind that we were still in shock and trembling with pain and fear, we

were supposed to comfort nada.

However, nada would forget her promise later that same day, or next week, or

whenever.

She still does this, sometimes: the apologizing. But sure enough, afterward

she denies having said the horrible thing, or having apologized (if she

never said the horrible thing to begin with, then there was no need for an

apology: bpd-universe logic.)

*Appearing* remorseful is just a behavior she's learned to mimic; she's

learned that she can use it in an emergency to shield her from our outrage.

How can Sister and I be angry with her when she has apologized? " I'm

sorry, " she blubbers. That wipes her slate clean, in her mind; she must

believe it makes her perfect again.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

Hi Joy,

 

I went nc with almost all of my family.  I did it in different ways.

 

I called up my parents (at different times) to tell them individually I was

going nc and exactly why.  I wrote my sister and grandmother letters.  I'm not

even sure I told my grandmother I was going nc--I may have just told her why I

was so angry with her and let her figure out the rest.

 

I don't really think it's wise to be there " only in an emergency. "   It kind of

guarantees that whenever she decides she wants you, it will be an emergency.  I

can understand feeling you should be there, but that is presuming she will be

thoughtful enough to reserve cries for help for real emergencies, but she

won't.  Or, out of spite, she won't tell you when it really is an emergency and

then you'll hear about that later through someone else.

 

Because the nature of bpd is a life of intermittent crises, I really think it is

best to maintain the same level of contact whether there is a current crisis or

not so that your desire for contact (or lack of it) is about the person and not

the crisis.

 

Best of luck,

Ashana

Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter

http://cricket.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

I'd recommend skipping the part where you'll be there in case of

emergencies. My nada has " emergencies " on a regular basis.

Occasionally there really is a problem that other people would

class as a real emergency. Even then, the problem is usually

something that wouldn't have been an emergency if she'd taken

the proper steps to deal with it sooner.

Personally, I'd never write my nada a letter to go NC. When I'm

not talking to her, I simply don't talk to her. Writing her a

letter like that would simply be like prodding a sleeping tiger.

My sister went NC by joining the army and not telling anyone

other than me how to contact her.

At 01:38 PM 06/29/2009 joy.lynch54 wrote:

>I am wondering for those of you who decided to go NC; how did

>you do it? I wrote a letter.

>

>I basically wrote that I wouldn't be around. However, part of

>me feels I should be around in an emergency (like death or

>serious illness). My Nada is 49, so it may be awhile before

>something like this happens.

>

>However; being around in case of an emergency may be difficult

>because I live farther than other people, and I would have to

>have either one of my sisters, or my uncle email be about it

>since I changed my phone number.

>

>-Joy

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your feedback.

I feel confused about NC. I read in the book, " Surviving A Borderline Parent " ,

that going NC is alienating the problem rather than solving it. I don't think

the book was against NC, but I think the authors were concerned with 'alienating

the problem'.

I just personally don't have any interest in speaking with my Nada. Everyone

I've spoken to is shocked that I changed my number, and I don't plan on resuming

contact. Some people feel that it is cold and that I may be trying to punish her

(I'm not). My therapist also

Hmm...I have a headache thinking about seeing my Nada again, ever. I just want

to quit thinking about it; even if that shocks people. In a way, it shocks

myself. I think...yeah, she's your " mother " . And no family is *perfect*.

My logical side thinks; well, she's more of a Nada than a " mother " . She's tried

to sabotage me countless of times. I don't trust her with personal information.

I don't trust her period. If I was forced to talk to her, I would only talk

about the weather.

I have learned I need to stop talking about going NC with my Nada to people. I

have come to realize that I get people wincing slightly or they get wide-eyed.

Most say I should give it a wait and 'think' on it. Others feel that my Nada

will " realize " how she has acted with time, and she will stop...(I wish). Others

feel that I do not understand that everyone has arguments and can hurt each

other sometimes. It is hard to explain to anyone.

But, I feel like I'm getting nothing out of the relationship. Even if I was to

create stronger boundaries; my Nada is an expert guilt tripper and manipulator.

Like many Nadas. I don't trust her at all. And it has gotten worse.

I must learn to quit talking about NC with other people. It is impossible to

explain the situation to them. This is not a rational but abusive person we are

talking about. This is an Irrational & an abusive person.

I wish I had the patience to stick it out but I don't. I can't keep my FOO from

becoming irritated, and I can't keep priests/counselors from disapproving. (I

appreciate the responses I got about the priest situation).

I wish they had a theme park for KOs. I think someone mentioned this before.

lol.

-Joy

>

> I am wondering for those of you who decided to go NC; how did you do it? I

wrote a letter.

>

> I basically wrote that I wouldn't be around. However, part of me feels I

should be around in an emergency (like death or serious illness). My Nada is 49,

so it may be awhile before something like this happens.

>

> However; being around in case of an emergency may be difficult because I live

farther than other people, and I would have to have either one of my sisters, or

my uncle email be about it since I changed my phone number.

>

> -Joy

>

[Guest guest]

Joy about going no contact, I just don't return calls as quickly and use caller

ID and don't pick up when they call. They get the message.

I read surviving. I am wondering if I have fleas or if I really am. How can you

tell? I read in the paper that people with personality disorders dont' realize

they have a problem, don't realize how they're affecting people.

Reading these posts about how some of thse parents are truly abusive makes me

feel like I'm not.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:11:28 AM

Subject: Re: NC question

Thank you all for your feedback.

I feel confused about NC. I read in the book, " Surviving A Borderline Parent " ,

that going NC is alienating the problem rather than solving it. I don't think

the book was against NC, but I think the authors were concerned with 'alienating

the problem'.

I just personally don't have any interest in speaking with my Nada. Everyone

I've spoken to is shocked that I changed my number, and I don't plan on resuming

contact. Some people feel that it is cold and that I may be trying to punish her

(I'm not). My therapist also

Hmm...I have a headache thinking about seeing my Nada again, ever. I just want

to quit thinking about it; even if that shocks people. In a way, it shocks

myself. I think...yeah, she's your " mother " . And no family is *perfect*.

My logical side thinks; well, she's more of a Nada than a " mother " . She's tried

to sabotage me countless of times. I don't trust her with personal information.

I don't trust her period. If I was forced to talk to her, I would only talk

about the weather.

I have learned I need to stop talking about going NC with my Nada to people. I

have come to realize that I get people wincing slightly or they get wide-eyed.

Most say I should give it a wait and 'think' on it. Others feel that my Nada

will " realize " how she has acted with time, and she will stop...(I wish). Others

feel that I do not understand that everyone has arguments and can hurt each

other sometimes. It is hard to explain to anyone.

But, I feel like I'm getting nothing out of the relationship. Even if I was to

create stronger boundaries; my Nada is an expert guilt tripper and manipulator.

Like many Nadas. I don't trust her at all. And it has gotten worse.

I must learn to quit talking about NC with other people. It is impossible to

explain the situation to them. This is not a rational but abusive person we are

talking about. This is an Irrational & an abusive person.

I wish I had the patience to stick it out but I don't. I can't keep my FOO from

becoming irritated, and I can't keep priests/counselors from disapproving. (I

appreciate the responses I got about the priest situation).

I wish they had a theme park for KOs. I think someone mentioned this before.

lol.

-Joy

>

> I am wondering for those of you who decided to go NC; how did you do it? I

wrote a letter.

>

> I basically wrote that I wouldn't be around. However, part of me feels I

should be around in an emergency (like death or serious illness). My Nada is 49,

so it may be awhile before something like this happens.

>

> However; being around in case of an emergency may be difficult because I live

farther than other people, and I would have to have either one of my sisters, or

my uncle email be about it since I changed my phone number.

>

> -Joy

>

[Guest guest]

I haven't read the responses so I may be repeating. I'd say since others live

closer it's okay to take yourself off the hook for emergencies at least while

you are doing your intense healing work. You have siblings who are closer so

you have the option - one I wish I had more than anything. I've been frustrated

as well with people's reactions to talking about my problems with my nada and

I'm not even NC! I think what you are encountering is that our society has a

terribly hard time seeing mothers realistically. It exalts them on the one hand

and devalues them on the next. The devaluing is mostly denied, kind of a shadow

component, so the exalting is what's on the surface. Mothers can only be kind,

good wonderful, nurturing, and perfect and any child who says different is

BAAAAAAD. There's a lot of folks who support this way of thinking and when

you talk about a situation so bad as to want no contact it makes an earthquake

in their brain - they can't handle it so *you* must be the one with the problem.

Anyway rounding about to a point here...this is precious healing work you are

doing and it's important to only share it with those who will honor that.

good luck,

> >

> > I am wondering for those of you who decided to go NC; how did you do it? I

wrote a letter.

> >

> > I basically wrote that I wouldn't be around. However, part of me feels I

should be around in an emergency (like death or serious illness). My Nada is 49,

so it may be awhile before something like this happens.

> >

> > However; being around in case of an emergency may be difficult because I

live farther than other people, and I would have to have either one of my

sisters, or my uncle email be about it since I changed my phone number.

> >

> > -Joy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,Joy.I'm up because I can't sleep anymore so I'll take a stab at validating

your decision to go NC.I know how frustrating it is when others outside of the

situation just do not get it.

You mentioned " alienating the problem rather than solving it. " It seems to me

that it is the problem itself that has alienated YOU.An alienation that is

healthy for you to feel in your circumstances--and after all,how can you

possibly be expected to " solve " someone else's personality disorder?

Some people feel that it is cold and that you are trying to punish nada?

Well,I have some questions for you:

Are you a cold person? Nothing I've read in your posts has given me that

impression of you.In fact,just the opposite.Is your nada a cold person?

Are you a petty spiteful vindictive person who punishes others? I don't

think so,really I don't.Is your nada capable of being petty spiteful and

vindictive? I would guess that the answer to that question is yes.

Are these some of the reasons why you choose not to have a relationship

with her?

You know your own nada better than those who are shocked by your

decision to go NC.I'll bet you have already spent years " giving it a think " and

" waiting it out " .This isn't a matter of a few isolated hurtful arguments with

your mother,is it?

Of course you are getting nothing out of the relationship.It sounds to me

like you have given so much of yourself to it and that it is a drain on your

vital energy and emotional well being because you don't get back what you put

into it.

You are right--she is an irrational and abusive person.If anyone else

made you feel so awful,would you continue to be patient and understanding with

them or would you walk for the sake of your own sanity? Why is it that society

expects us to make an exception when the irrational and abusive person is our

mother when they are not in fact mothers in the true sense of that word? If they

were truly mothers of course none of us here would be NC.

If you did have the patience to stick it out,how would that serve you?

Would it make your nada become clear and sane and ok? Or would that amount to a

sacrifice of yourself while nada went right on being a nada,draining your

patience and your selfhood to their dregs?

Joy,you don't have to be the saint of your FOO.I think you need to give

that patience to yourself.You have a right to protect yourself from harm and to

be good and kind and patient to YOU.I'm saying this as someone who supports and

understands your NC.You are not doing anything " bad " by being NC and please

remember that the people who attribute any kind of " bad " motive to it simply

haven't walked in your shoes and therefore their opinions of it have nothing

really to do with you.I think you do know that but I'll echo it back to you

anyway.

Take care,

> >

> > I am wondering for those of you who decided to go NC; how did you do it? I

wrote a letter.

> >

> > I basically wrote that I wouldn't be around. However, part of me feels I

should be around in an emergency (like death or serious illness). My Nada is 49,

so it may be awhile before something like this happens.

> >

> > However; being around in case of an emergency may be difficult because I

live farther than other people, and I would have to have either one of my

sisters, or my uncle email be about it since I changed my phone number.

> >

> > -Joy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Joy,

I have a few comments. 1) you cannot solve your nadas " problem " , so the book

is wrong..you are not running away from the problem, you are distancing

yourself from an unfixable situation that's harmful to you 2) you do not

need to tell anyone you are NC with nada, you do not owe them any

explanation, it's none of their business.

Jackie

Thank you all for your feedback.

I feel confused about NC. I read in the book, " Surviving A Borderline

Parent " , that going NC is alienating the problem rather than solving it. I

don't think the book was against NC, but I think the authors were concerned

with 'alienating the problem'.

I just personally don't have any interest in speaking with my Nada. Everyone

I've spoken to is shocked that I changed my number, and I don't plan on

resuming contact. Some people feel that it is cold and that I may be trying

to punish her (I'm not). My therapist also

Hmm...I have a headache thinking about seeing my Nada again, ever. I just

want to quit thinking about it; even if that shocks people. In a way, it

shocks myself. I think...yeah, she's your " mother " . And no family is

*perfect*.

My logical side thinks; well, she's more of a Nada than a " mother " . She's

tried to sabotage me countless of times. I don't trust her with personal

information. I don't trust her period. If I was forced to talk to her, I

would only talk about the weather.

I have learned I need to stop talking about going NC with my Nada to people.

I have come to realize that I get people wincing slightly or they get

wide-eyed. Most say I should give it a wait and 'think' on it. Others feel

that my Nada will " realize " how she has acted with time, and she will

stop...(I wish). Others feel that I do not understand that everyone has

arguments and can hurt each other sometimes. It is hard to explain to

anyone.

But, I feel like I'm getting nothing out of the relationship. Even if I was

to create stronger boundaries; my Nada is an expert guilt tripper and

manipulator. Like many Nadas. I don't trust her at all. And it has gotten

worse.

I must learn to quit talking about NC with other people. It is impossible to

explain the situation to them. This is not a rational but abusive person we

are talking about. This is an Irrational & an abusive person.

I wish I had the patience to stick it out but I don't. I can't keep my FOO

from becoming irritated, and I can't keep priests/counselors from

disapproving. (I appreciate the responses I got about the priest situation).

I wish they had a theme park for KOs. I think someone mentioned this before.

lol.

-Joy

[Guest guest]

my BPD sister does this..a very insincere apology !!

Jackie

Mine apologizes but it is always aggressive. She uses it as a way to imply

that I am impossible and she is a victim, I don't know how to describe it.

She barks out " I am sorry " in the most furious tone, and it sounds like

" =)( YOU: " , usually followed by " if I am not perfect " or some smilar bs.

Jo

[Guest guest]

" The problem " is something that is beyond your control and which

you can't solve. Your nada's mental health issues are not a

simple problem that you can fix. Any advice based on the idea

that you can solve that problem is suspect in my mind. If you

can't fix a problem, and you have the choice of continuing to be

part of the problem or of not being involved, not being involved

seems like a fine choice to me. Not " sticking it out " is not a

matter of lacking patience. It is self-preservation. If anyone

else were abusing you, people would be asking why you didn't get

out of the relationship rather than doing the opposite.

Not telling people about going NC sounds like a good idea. It

isn't any of their business for the most part. If the subject

comes up and you feel you want to say something about it, you

don't have to tell the full story. Just say something about not

having much contact because your mother has mental problems. You

don't have to say you have no contact with her at all or

describe what her problems are.

At 03:11 AM 06/30/2009 joy.lynch54 wrote:

>Thank you all for your feedback.

>

>I feel confused about NC. I read in the book, " Surviving A

>Borderline Parent " , that going NC is alienating the problem

>rather than solving it. I don't think the book was against NC,

>but I think the authors were concerned with 'alienating the

>problem'.

>

>I just personally don't have any interest in speaking with my

>Nada. Everyone I've spoken to is shocked that I changed my

>number, and I don't plan on resuming contact. Some people feel

>that it is cold and that I may be trying to punish her (I'm

>not). My therapist also

>

>Hmm...I have a headache thinking about seeing my Nada again,

>ever. I just want to quit thinking about it; even if that

>shocks people. In a way, it shocks myself. I think...yeah,

>she's your " mother " . And no family is *perfect*.

>

>My logical side thinks; well, she's more of a Nada than a

> " mother " . She's tried to sabotage me countless of times. I

>don't trust her with personal information. I don't trust her

>period. If I was forced to talk to her, I would only talk about

>the weather.

>

>I have learned I need to stop talking about going NC with my

>Nada to people. I have come to realize that I get people

>wincing slightly or they get wide-eyed. Most say I should give

>it a wait and 'think' on it. Others feel that my Nada will

> " realize " how she has acted with time, and she will stop...(I

>wish). Others feel that I do not understand that everyone has

>arguments and can hurt each other sometimes. It is hard to

>explain to anyone.

>

>But, I feel like I'm getting nothing out of the relationship.

>Even if I was to create stronger boundaries; my Nada is an

>expert guilt tripper and manipulator. Like many Nadas. I don't

>trust her at all. And it has gotten worse.

>

>I must learn to quit talking about NC with other people. It is

>impossible to explain the situation to them. This is not a

>rational but abusive person we are talking about. This is an

>Irrational & an abusive person.

>

>I wish I had the patience to stick it out but I don't. I can't

>keep my FOO from becoming irritated, and I can't keep

>priests/counselors from disapproving. (I appreciate the

>responses I got about the priest situation).

>

>I wish they had a theme park for KOs. I think someone mentioned

>this before. lol.

>

>-Joy

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Hi Joy,

 

'alienating the problem'..I don't think so.

 

Seeking NC with an armed assailant, a tsunami, the swine flu or a scorpion seems

to me to be the only healthy option we were never allowed to have, not the other

way around. I would doubt the sanity of someone who stays for a tidal wave so as

to " face the problem " , not of one that runs for the hills..  bp's are a force

of nature, way beyond our control..

 

I have chosen to, in all humbleness, stop fighting it, and gave up. There is

nothing in my power to do, so I left the building. It's very hard but hey, there

is such peace too.... and the peace grows with time, the guilt gets less

pervasive.

 

Jo

 

Subject: Re: Re: NC question

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 5:15 AM

Hi Joy,

I have a few comments. 1) you cannot solve your nadas " problem " , so the book

is wrong..you are not running away from the problem, you are distancing

yourself from an unfixable situation that's harmful to you 2) you do not

need to tell anyone you are NC with nada, you do not owe them any

explanation, it's none of their business.

Jackie

Thank you all for your feedback.

I feel confused about NC. I read in the book, " Surviving A Borderline

Parent " , that going NC is alienating the problem rather than solving it. I

don't think the book was against NC, but I think the authors were concerned

with 'alienating the problem'.

I just personally don't have any interest in speaking with my Nada. Everyone

I've spoken to is shocked that I changed my number, and I don't plan on

resuming contact. Some people feel that it is cold and that I may be trying

to punish her (I'm not). My therapist also

Hmm...I have a headache thinking about seeing my Nada again, ever. I just

want to quit thinking about it; even if that shocks people. In a way, it

shocks myself. I think...yeah, she's your " mother " . And no family is

*perfect*.

My logical side thinks; well, she's more of a Nada than a " mother " . She's

tried to sabotage me countless of times. I don't trust her with personal

information. I don't trust her period. If I was forced to talk to her, I

would only talk about the weather.

I have learned I need to stop talking about going NC with my Nada to people.

I have come to realize that I get people wincing slightly or they get

wide-eyed. Most say I should give it a wait and 'think' on it. Others feel

that my Nada will " realize " how she has acted with time, and she will

stop...(I wish). Others feel that I do not understand that everyone has

arguments and can hurt each other sometimes. It is hard to explain to

anyone.

But, I feel like I'm getting nothing out of the relationship. Even if I was

to create stronger boundaries; my Nada is an expert guilt tripper and

manipulator. Like many Nadas. I don't trust her at all. And it has gotten

worse.

I must learn to quit talking about NC with other people. It is impossible to

explain the situation to them. This is not a rational but abusive person we

are talking about. This is an Irrational & an abusive person.

I wish I had the patience to stick it out but I don't. I can't keep my FOO

from becoming irritated, and I can't keep priests/counselors from

disapproving. (I appreciate the responses I got about the priest situation).

I wish they had a theme park for KOs. I think someone mentioned this before.

lol.

-Joy

[Guest guest]

In my opinion, you (we) don't owe anyone an explanation about whether you are or

are not in contact with your nada (or other abusive foo.) Its not anyone else's

business. When my acquaintances, work associates or friends (who are not close

friends) ask me how my mother is, I just say, " She's fine, thanks. "

I think that us survivors of mentally ill parents feel *misplaced* guilt for not

being emotionally close to or totally cutting off contact with the people who

mistreated us as children and who continue to mistreat us as adults.

But, think of it this way and maybe you won't feel as conflicted: I would not

expect the adult child of a father who repeatedly molested and raped her to stay

in contact with her father, particularly if he denied it, called her a liar and

crazy, never apologized, never asked for forgiveness, and continued to make

sexual overtures to her into her adulthood! That would be incomprehensible to

expect an adult daughter to subject herself to contact with the " father " who

behaved like that!

Well, in a way, I feel " emotionally raped " by my nada. My nada wanted total

enmeshment with me; she treated me like my mind and body and soul were her

property and were hers to use and command, and I let her have me far into my

adulthood because I wanted her love (Stockholm syndrome.)

I've come to believe that I need complete no-contact with my nada because its

easy for me to be lured back in by her, and that's not good for me at all.

So, OK, that makes me weak. So its *easier* to go no contact than to have

limited contact and set up the elaborate boundaries that need constant

reinforcement. OK, so I'm weak and lazy; but I resist feeling guilty. In fact,

I'll be damned if I let myself feel guilty or let other people make me feel

guilty. I refuse.

I have the right to defend myself from my " emotional rapist. "

-Annie

> >

> > I am wondering for those of you who decided to go NC; how did you do it? I

wrote a letter.

> >

> > I basically wrote that I wouldn't be around. However, part of me feels I

should be around in an emergency (like death or serious illness). My Nada is 49,

so it may be awhile before something like this happens.

> >

> > However; being around in case of an emergency may be difficult because I

live farther than other people, and I would have to have either one of my

sisters, or my uncle email be about it since I changed my phone number.

> >

> > -Joy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you for your post. I woke up today, and I felt so much better. I think I

figured out what the guilty part of me is thinking. I think I realized it more

from a letter that I wrote. It was a confrontation letter that I wrote to my

Nada. I wrote in it how she was an incompetent parent; and I also wrote all

about the abuse that had taken place.

I read an article online last night about dysfunctional families. It said that

it is not good to write an angry letter to parents unless you intend to use it

as such to try to change the relationship for the better. Otherwise, it's better

to write a letter and burn it.

I wrote a confrontation letter outlining all the abuse that had taken place, and

it had an angry tone (because I was angry)...but I had no intention of reuniting

with my Nada. So, I guess part of me wanted to punish her? Don't really know. I

just remember being very emotional when I wrote it.

Not sure, but I'm still working on it.

-Joy

> > >

> > > I am wondering for those of you who decided to go NC; how did you do it? I

wrote a letter.

> > >

> > > I basically wrote that I wouldn't be around. However, part of me feels I

should be around in an emergency (like death or serious illness). My Nada is 49,

so it may be awhile before something like this happens.

> > >

> > > However; being around in case of an emergency may be difficult because I

live farther than other people, and I would have to have either one of my

sisters, or my uncle email be about it since I changed my phone number.

> > >

> > > -Joy

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thank you. I appreciate your input. I do feel like I'm becoming a stronger

person.

I guess it makes sense that it would cause an earthquake in peoples' brains.

I am wondering if you have ever encountered someone you know saying a variation

of this: " But; you are so normal, and you're talented. So, your Mom must have

done something right. You should give her credit for that. "

I give my Nada credit where it is due. But I honestly feel I did a lot on my

own, and from teachers/friends/relatives/sisters had a lot of input, also.

-Joy

> > >

> > > I am wondering for those of you who decided to go NC; how did you do it? I

wrote a letter.

> > >

> > > I basically wrote that I wouldn't be around. However, part of me feels I

should be around in an emergency (like death or serious illness). My Nada is 49,

so it may be awhile before something like this happens.

> > >

> > > However; being around in case of an emergency may be difficult because I

live farther than other people, and I would have to have either one of my

sisters, or my uncle email be about it since I changed my phone number.

> > >

> > > -Joy

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Raven,

Thank you for your imput.

-Joy

> >Thank you all for your feedback.

> >

> >I feel confused about NC. I read in the book, " Surviving A

> >Borderline Parent " , that going NC is alienating the problem

> >rather than solving it. I don't think the book was against NC,

> >but I think the authors were concerned with 'alienating the

> >problem'.

> >

> >I just personally don't have any interest in speaking with my

> >Nada. Everyone I've spoken to is shocked that I changed my

> >number, and I don't plan on resuming contact. Some people feel

> >that it is cold and that I may be trying to punish her (I'm

> >not). My therapist also

> >

> >Hmm...I have a headache thinking about seeing my Nada again,

> >ever. I just want to quit thinking about it; even if that

> >shocks people. In a way, it shocks myself. I think...yeah,

> >she's your " mother " . And no family is *perfect*.

> >

> >My logical side thinks; well, she's more of a Nada than a

> > " mother " . She's tried to sabotage me countless of times. I

> >don't trust her with personal information. I don't trust her

> >period. If I was forced to talk to her, I would only talk about

> >the weather.

> >

> >I have learned I need to stop talking about going NC with my

> >Nada to people. I have come to realize that I get people

> >wincing slightly or they get wide-eyed. Most say I should give

> >it a wait and 'think' on it. Others feel that my Nada will

> > " realize " how she has acted with time, and she will stop...(I

> >wish). Others feel that I do not understand that everyone has

> >arguments and can hurt each other sometimes. It is hard to

> >explain to anyone.

> >

> >But, I feel like I'm getting nothing out of the relationship.

> >Even if I was to create stronger boundaries; my Nada is an

> >expert guilt tripper and manipulator. Like many Nadas. I don't

> >trust her at all. And it has gotten worse.

> >

> >I must learn to quit talking about NC with other people. It is

> >impossible to explain the situation to them. This is not a

> >rational but abusive person we are talking about. This is an

> >Irrational & an abusive person.

> >

> >I wish I had the patience to stick it out but I don't. I can't

> >keep my FOO from becoming irritated, and I can't keep

> >priests/counselors from disapproving. (I appreciate the

> >responses I got about the priest situation).

> >

> >I wish they had a theme park for KOs. I think someone mentioned

> >this before. lol.

> >

> >-Joy

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

It's good to hear that the guilt gets less pervasive.

-Joy

>

>

>

> Subject: Re: Re: NC question

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 5:15 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Joy,

>

> I have a few comments. 1) you cannot solve your nadas " problem " , so the book

> is wrong..you are not running away from the problem, you are distancing

> yourself from an unfixable situation that's harmful to you 2) you do not

> need to tell anyone you are NC with nada, you do not owe them any

> explanation, it's none of their business.

>

> Jackie

>

> Thank you all for your feedback.

>

> I feel confused about NC. I read in the book, " Surviving A Borderline

> Parent " , that going NC is alienating the problem rather than solving it. I

> don't think the book was against NC, but I think the authors were concerned

> with 'alienating the problem'.

>

> I just personally don't have any interest in speaking with my Nada. Everyone

> I've spoken to is shocked that I changed my number, and I don't plan on

> resuming contact. Some people feel that it is cold and that I may be trying

> to punish her (I'm not). My therapist also

>

> Hmm...I have a headache thinking about seeing my Nada again, ever. I just

> want to quit thinking about it; even if that shocks people. In a way, it

> shocks myself. I think...yeah, she's your " mother " . And no family is

> *perfect*.

>

> My logical side thinks; well, she's more of a Nada than a " mother " . She's

> tried to sabotage me countless of times. I don't trust her with personal

> information. I don't trust her period. If I was forced to talk to her, I

> would only talk about the weather.

>

> I have learned I need to stop talking about going NC with my Nada to people.

> I have come to realize that I get people wincing slightly or they get

> wide-eyed. Most say I should give it a wait and 'think' on it. Others feel

> that my Nada will " realize " how she has acted with time, and she will

> stop...(I wish). Others feel that I do not understand that everyone has

> arguments and can hurt each other sometimes. It is hard to explain to

> anyone.

>

> But, I feel like I'm getting nothing out of the relationship. Even if I was

> to create stronger boundaries; my Nada is an expert guilt tripper and

> manipulator. Like many Nadas. I don't trust her at all. And it has gotten

> worse.

>

> I must learn to quit talking about NC with other people. It is impossible to

> explain the situation to them. This is not a rational but abusive person we

> are talking about. This is an Irrational & an abusive person.

>

> I wish I had the patience to stick it out but I don't. I can't keep my FOO

> from becoming irritated, and I can't keep priests/counselors from

> disapproving. (I appreciate the responses I got about the priest situation).

>

> I wish they had a theme park for KOs. I think someone mentioned this before.

> lol.

>

> -Joy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>