Re: Nada's Inflection and KO Up Down Moods

[Guest guest]

I meant she replies: " you're welcome " .. Does anyone else have up down moods,

or shy away from social situations out of exhaustion from having to deal

with people? But at work, you are fine and put on a happy face, and then

actually start to feel good, until you feel bad, then good, then bad again?

On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Lee Cubero wrote:

> I don't know why I fall for it. Mom with BPD apologizes for abusive

> behavior, and when I say mom, wow it took a lot for you to apologize about

> what happened, that's really brave of you, she stone coldly replies: you're

> welcoming and in an accusing tone rather than questioning asks me: " Is that

> all you have to say, you haven't done any soul searching? " I know this line

> sounds like a question anyone could ask, but the way she says things, makes

> me cringe.. Especially since her apology was just a tactic for her to get me

> to grovel, for what? Defending myself! She twists everything I do and say..

> If I say my younger brother's counselor should know what's going on, she

> thinks I am threatening to take her son away. She focuses on all the ways I

> was in the wrong, rather than seeing what drove me to that point was her..

> The night I called the police nothing particularly bad was going on.. was it

> selfish of me then to call them.. I had a mini break down from nothing, from

> just seeing her acting so calm and content in the living room after days and

> days of her craziness - digging her nails into my skin when she was upset

> that I wasn't jumping for joy about taking her to do her taxes ( okay I

> should have taken her for the taxes, but really to get that upset is

> crazy..) and then the other times ,. throwing apples, hair brushes, anything

> within reach, directly aimed at my face.. Pulling my hair because the

> bathroom sink was wet and I should wipe it down.. I am 19, and don't even

> live at home anymore. I am a woman who chose to help her mom who was going

> through a lot of physical ailments.. Yes, she was on pain medications with

> side effects of mood swings, and now she blames that for her abuse, she also

> says I am not compassionate .. It goes like this: Oh I am sorry for

> what happened, the medication made me crazy, but also it's not your fault

> that you're not compassionate and you're selfish. What kind of apology is

> that? Anyway, we tried having a phone relationship about not talking about

> what happened, screaming over what happened, and then talking about the

> weather and boys, two superficial and safe topics. But then tonight, out of

> nowhere, she implied that if the horrible time didn't happen I could watch

> the dog instead of her having to pay someone, while she goes out of state to

> the mayo clinic hospital to treat the chronic physical ailments. She didn't

> say any of this, but something about KO children is that we are

> hypersensitive to the body language, inflection. This causes us to over

> analyze everything people do and say, but we are experts at reading people,

> since all of our lives we've had to read our parents to know if they were

> going to flip out in any given moment, and then blame us. So I politely tell

> my mom that her tone of the way she accusingly said " did you do any soul

> searching " sounded more like an attack, a put down than a question to which

> she refuted: " You must be insecure, because I was simply asking you a

> question. " Then she talks about how our relationship was so great before,

> that now there's no " loyalty " or " trust " she doesn't know how I could

> " betray " her by calling the cops when she was doing nothing..

>

> As a KO I block things out, I also obsessively remember them, until I block

> them out completely so I completely forgot about the night I called the cops

> and " told the cops nonsense stories " according to my mom. It's getting so

> hard to have relationships with anyone.. I don't expect anything from anyone

> anymore.. I just stick to myself. I rather read a book than go out and talk

> to people with their drama and silliness. I've grown a little bit bitter. I

> don't want to have bitter friends either, who judge everything and think

> they are too good for even themselves. I prefer to have silly, happy go

> lucky friends. And sometimes, guys, I am happy go lucky when I push away all

> the pain that's happened.. But when my mom calls and blames me for all the

> badness and then excuses herself by saying it was the pain medicine that

> made her kick down the door, or call me all of those ugly names, or say I'll

> cut yu with a knife... which she said not meaning it.. she said it out of

> anger, which is the same why I said " I'll destroy you, " when I called the

> police. Clearly this family needs pyschotherapy.

>

> I keep telling mom that I don't want to talk about what happened until we

> see a therapist together. She's so sadly pathetic feeling scared and

> vulnerable that I will " hurt " her when I come to visit again. Hold up, mama

> drama who said anything about me coming to visit again. I am going to be

> just fine 8 states away, and when I go to NC for school a state away, guess

> who isn't getting my address? Anyway. I can't even believe my mom has these

> " trust " issues with me, when I am the one who should be feeling victimized,

> not the bad guy. How can she do that? make me feel like the bad guy, forget

> and excuse all of the wrongdoings that make her the bad guy to me.. I

> politely remind my mother that it's not just me, everyone in her life has

> left her because walking on eggshells is exhausting .. being controlled,

> manipulated, guilt tripped, praised, then cut down all in a matter of 5

> minutes: I haven't seen a reality TV show with this much madness, and the

> worst is that it really gets to me.. I feel up, I feel down, I feel up, then

> down. I buy things and feel good for a little, then go back to down .. when

> I am around people.. I fake a smile, when I am alone sometimes I'm happy,

> then sad, then angry, then happy, then sad, angry, etc.

>

> I am turning crazy.

>

> Anyway, I shut off my phone when my mom started the blame game of why she

> can't trust me, and how I betrayed her and all that cookiness.

>

> What kills me is when she talks about her oldest friends, not encouraging

> her to move by her to their hometown, or not calling for several weeks after

> the devastating news about her chronic spinal stenosis .. She makes it like

> they are the worst people, and I bite my tongue thinking mom you aren't the

> center of the world, people have their own problems and why do you have to

> read into everything thinking that they don't love you if you aren't up

> their butts. I try to use it as an opportunity to say that there are many

> reasons why people do what they do, don't take it personally life isn't

> black and white, there are a lot of gray areas. And she uses this as an

> opportunity to say that if the relationship with x person fails, it's not a

> big deal, because she NEVER could imagine how terribly our " mother/daughter "

> relationship turned out.

>

> Thanks for reading, I had to vent, I feel a little bit better, for now

> until the up downs start..

>

> I know I should see a therapist, and I'm in NY where I could find a world

> class one, AND I have insurance, so I should take advantage of that.. I just

> keep thinking that one day , one week I won't need to talk about this, or

> think about this gnawing problem.

>

> -Kris

>

[Guest guest]

" I'm sure 99% to do with the wrong, but out of the soul searching maybe you

could see that it had 1% to do with you, but you can't see that. "

" I don't trust you because I keep thinking you are going to call Ms.

Telerico, (the school guidance counselour for charlie, my little brother)

threaten to take my son away, or call the police for no reason. "

" I had every reason to make a report about taking money out of my account,

and could have called UNC and told them, but I didn't because I want you to

have a good future, at least I would never ruin your reputation by calling

the police, and I don't think you realize what you did will always haunt me

as long as I live here.. You said I deserve it, and I will live with that

stain. Love is a relationship, it's a bond, it's a circle it's a trust, and

we lost that especially when you are not willing to see how much it has hurt

me.. "

So after I shut my phone off these were the lovely messages my mom left me..

let's play spot the BPD symptoms how many emotional manipulations can we

find in this voice mail?

First off I took out money from the account because I needed a plane ticket

to get away from her craziness, and second of all I did admit to my short

comings a long time ago, and I just don't feel the need to keep apologizing

for something when it was 99% of her fault.. I know it's rather difficult to

put percentages on a real time situation, but trust me it was 99% mom's

fault, and I do think she deserved me calling the cops. I really am not

sorry about that.

On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Lee Cubero wrote:

> I meant she replies: " you're welcome " .. Does anyone else have up down

> moods, or shy away from social situations out of exhaustion from having to

> deal with people? But at work, you are fine and put on a happy face, and

> then actually start to feel good, until you feel bad, then good, then bad

> again?

>

>

> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Lee Cubero

wrote:

>

>> I don't know why I fall for it. Mom with BPD apologizes for abusive

>> behavior, and when I say mom, wow it took a lot for you to apologize about

>> what happened, that's really brave of you, she stone coldly replies: you're

>> welcoming and in an accusing tone rather than questioning asks me: " Is that

>> all you have to say, you haven't done any soul searching? " I know this line

>> sounds like a question anyone could ask, but the way she says things, makes

>> me cringe.. Especially since her apology was just a tactic for her to get me

>> to grovel, for what? Defending myself! She twists everything I do and say..

>> If I say my younger brother's counselor should know what's going on, she

>> thinks I am threatening to take her son away. She focuses on all the ways I

>> was in the wrong, rather than seeing what drove me to that point was her..

>> The night I called the police nothing particularly bad was going on.. was it

>> selfish of me then to call them.. I had a mini break down from nothing, from

>> just seeing her acting so calm and content in the living room after days and

>> days of her craziness - digging her nails into my skin when she was upset

>> that I wasn't jumping for joy about taking her to do her taxes ( okay I

>> should have taken her for the taxes, but really to get that upset is

>> crazy..) and then the other times ,. throwing apples, hair brushes, anything

>> within reach, directly aimed at my face.. Pulling my hair because the

>> bathroom sink was wet and I should wipe it down.. I am 19, and don't even

>> live at home anymore. I am a woman who chose to help her mom who was going

>> through a lot of physical ailments.. Yes, she was on pain medications with

>> side effects of mood swings, and now she blames that for her abuse, she also

>> says I am not compassionate .. It goes like this: Oh I am sorry for

>> what happened, the medication made me crazy, but also it's not your fault

>> that you're not compassionate and you're selfish. What kind of apology is

>> that? Anyway, we tried having a phone relationship about not talking about

>> what happened, screaming over what happened, and then talking about the

>> weather and boys, two superficial and safe topics. But then tonight, out of

>> nowhere, she implied that if the horrible time didn't happen I could watch

>> the dog instead of her having to pay someone, while she goes out of state to

>> the mayo clinic hospital to treat the chronic physical ailments. She didn't

>> say any of this, but something about KO children is that we are

>> hypersensitive to the body language, inflection. This causes us to over

>> analyze everything people do and say, but we are experts at reading people,

>> since all of our lives we've had to read our parents to know if they were

>> going to flip out in any given moment, and then blame us. So I politely tell

>> my mom that her tone of the way she accusingly said " did you do any soul

>> searching " sounded more like an attack, a put down than a question to which

>> she refuted: " You must be insecure, because I was simply asking you a

>> question. " Then she talks about how our relationship was so great before,

>> that now there's no " loyalty " or " trust " she doesn't know how I could

>> " betray " her by calling the cops when she was doing nothing..

>>

>> As a KO I block things out, I also obsessively remember them, until I

>> block them out completely so I completely forgot about the night I called

>> the cops and " told the cops nonsense stories " according to my mom. It's

>> getting so hard to have relationships with anyone.. I don't expect anything

>> from anyone anymore.. I just stick to myself. I rather read a book than go

>> out and talk to people with their drama and silliness. I've grown a little

>> bit bitter. I don't want to have bitter friends either, who judge everything

>> and think they are too good for even themselves. I prefer to have silly,

>> happy go lucky friends. And sometimes, guys, I am happy go lucky when I push

>> away all the pain that's happened.. But when my mom calls and blames me for

>> all the badness and then excuses herself by saying it was the pain medicine

>> that made her kick down the door, or call me all of those ugly names, or say

>> I'll cut yu with a knife... which she said not meaning it.. she said it out

>> of anger, which is the same why I said " I'll destroy you, " when I called the

>> police. Clearly this family needs pyschotherapy.

>>

>> I keep telling mom that I don't want to talk about what happened until we

>> see a therapist together. She's so sadly pathetic feeling scared and

>> vulnerable that I will " hurt " her when I come to visit again. Hold up, mama

>> drama who said anything about me coming to visit again. I am going to be

>> just fine 8 states away, and when I go to NC for school a state away, guess

>> who isn't getting my address? Anyway. I can't even believe my mom has these

>> " trust " issues with me, when I am the one who should be feeling victimized,

>> not the bad guy. How can she do that? make me feel like the bad guy, forget

>> and excuse all of the wrongdoings that make her the bad guy to me.. I

>> politely remind my mother that it's not just me, everyone in her life has

>> left her because walking on eggshells is exhausting .. being controlled,

>> manipulated, guilt tripped, praised, then cut down all in a matter of 5

>> minutes: I haven't seen a reality TV show with this much madness, and the

>> worst is that it really gets to me.. I feel up, I feel down, I feel up, then

>> down. I buy things and feel good for a little, then go back to down .. when

>> I am around people.. I fake a smile, when I am alone sometimes I'm happy,

>> then sad, then angry, then happy, then sad, angry, etc.

>>

>> I am turning crazy.

>>

>> Anyway, I shut off my phone when my mom started the blame game of why she

>> can't trust me, and how I betrayed her and all that cookiness.

>>

>> What kills me is when she talks about her oldest friends, not encouraging

>> her to move by her to their hometown, or not calling for several weeks after

>> the devastating news about her chronic spinal stenosis .. She makes it like

>> they are the worst people, and I bite my tongue thinking mom you aren't the

>> center of the world, people have their own problems and why do you have to

>> read into everything thinking that they don't love you if you aren't up

>> their butts. I try to use it as an opportunity to say that there are many

>> reasons why people do what they do, don't take it personally life isn't

>> black and white, there are a lot of gray areas. And she uses this as an

>> opportunity to say that if the relationship with x person fails, it's not a

>> big deal, because she NEVER could imagine how terribly our " mother/daughter "

>> relationship turned out.

>>

>> Thanks for reading, I had to vent, I feel a little bit better, for now

>> until the up downs start..

>>

>> I know I should see a therapist, and I'm in NY where I could find a world

>> class one, AND I have insurance, so I should take advantage of that.. I just

>> keep thinking that one day , one week I won't need to talk about this, or

>> think about this gnawing problem.

>>

>> -Kris

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I couldn't help but relate to everything you are saying. I am 32 now but recall

all that stuff happening when I was a teen and early 20's. Heck my nada has been

emotionally and verbally abusing me up until I decided limited to no contact

this last year.

I would say you need a break from your nada for some time to get yourself

emotionally situated. She has you sucked into her snake pit. It's also what I

would call quick sand. Once you are in it's hard to get out. Therapy is a way to

help you get out. I started therapy when I was 18 and went on and off since then

to help me through different stages of my life. i feel without therapy I

wouldn't be where I am today, in a happy marriage with a little boy who makes my

heart sing.

You deserve health, happiness and well being. Unfortunately our nadas love their

misery and as they say misery loves company. If they don't get their way they

will do and say ANYTHING to get you to do what they want you to do. Don't fall

for it. they even feign illness. my nada is a master of that.

Here's a story for you...when I had just given birth to my son two years ago my

nada decided to come up two days after the birth and refused to learn directions

to the hospital. I was about to take my shower for the first time and was in a

lot of pain and needed my husband around but she started yelling at me on the

phone that my husband " better go meet " her at the store she was familiar with

that was more than 1/2 hour from the hospital. She even " threatened " that if he

didn't go meet her then and there she would turn around and drive back home. My

husband left me to go pick her up and was gone for like two hours (he didn't

know what to do but respected my wish to go meet her b/c at that point i was

still in the role of peacemaker). He said he found her shopping w/ the happiest

expression on her face. Later he said he noticed she looked happier shopping

than she did when she came to the hospital to see me and the baby. Also she kept

commenting on my stomach and when it would go down. I just gave birth! She kept

telling me I needed a girdle. The nurse looked at her strangely and with shock

that she was saying this to her daughter. Then she kept arguing with me about

nonsensical stuff. She also kept bringing stuff up from our past and how

" difficult " I made her life, etc. Then she became extremely jealous when my

husband was talking to the nurses about how happy he was that his sister could

be at the birth and how helpful she'd been. My nada had been informed the same

day as all our other relatives that I was going into labor and she chose to come

two days later. My SIL was the one who dropped what she was doing and drove to

be with us. We didn't have to ask her. My mother wanted me to beg her to come.

She even said " how come you don't need me like I need my mother? " Then she

asked, no told the nurses, to give us the blankets at the hospital, saying it

was a nice memento to keep and they said we couldn't have them b/c they are

expensive to replace. We had so many baby blankets that were nicer than the ones

at the hospital and she still ended up stealing a couple when people weren't

looking!! She also went to the kitchen reserved for patients and stole a bunch

of snacks and other supplies. She feels she's entitled to whatever she wants.

The rules can apply to others but not to her! I felt so embarrassed. And my

husband just couldn't believe her behavior. Suffice it to say she is not welcome

in our home at this point, though she keeps trying to invite herself back. She's

done a lot more to to hurt me physically, emotionally and verbally over the

years as I see your nada is doing to you.

She did used to be physically assaulting with me and definitely has been and

continues to be with my father who continues to put up with her BS.

Good for you for calling the police. I wish I had the courage to do that when

she was assaultive to me.

I think taking care of yourself, setting boundaries and limits, screening calls

are good first steps to take. It does feel like you are going crazy but you are

not. You are having normal reactions/feelings in response to an abnormal

situation.

Listen to what your body and mind are telling you - stay away!!! Don't let guilt

bring you back in there. They know what to say and how to push your buttons.

They have spent their lives refining these skills.

Take care of yourself!!! You deserve it.

hugs,

sofia

>

> I don't know why I fall for it. Mom with BPD apologizes for abusive

> behavior, and when I say mom, wow it took a lot for you to apologize about

> what happened, that's really brave of you, she stone coldly replies: you're

> welcoming and in an accusing tone rather than questioning asks me: " Is that

> all you have to say, you haven't done any soul searching? " I know this line

> sounds like a question anyone could ask, but the way she says things, makes

> me cringe.. Especially since her apology was just a tactic for her to get me

> to grovel, for what? Defending myself! She twists everything I do and say..

> If I say my younger brother's counselor should know what's going on, she

> thinks I am threatening to take her son away. She focuses on all the ways I

> was in the wrong, rather than seeing what drove me to that point was her..

> The night I called the police nothing particularly bad was going on.. was it

> selfish of me then to call them.. I had a mini break down from nothing, from

> just seeing her acting so calm and content in the living room after days and

> days of her craziness - digging her nails into my skin when she was upset

> that I wasn't jumping for joy about taking her to do her taxes ( okay I

> should have taken her for the taxes, but really to get that upset is

> crazy..) and then the other times ,. throwing apples, hair brushes, anything

> within reach, directly aimed at my face.. Pulling my hair because the

> bathroom sink was wet and I should wipe it down.. I am 19, and don't even

> live at home anymore. I am a woman who chose to help her mom who was going

> through a lot of physical ailments.. Yes, she was on pain medications with

> side effects of mood swings, and now she blames that for her abuse, she also

> says I am not compassionate .. It goes like this: Oh I am sorry for

> what happened, the medication made me crazy, but also it's not your fault

> that you're not compassionate and you're selfish. What kind of apology is

> that? Anyway, we tried having a phone relationship about not talking about

> what happened, screaming over what happened, and then talking about the

> weather and boys, two superficial and safe topics. But then tonight, out of

> nowhere, she implied that if the horrible time didn't happen I could watch

> the dog instead of her having to pay someone, while she goes out of state to

> the mayo clinic hospital to treat the chronic physical ailments. She didn't

> say any of this, but something about KO children is that we are

> hypersensitive to the body language, inflection. This causes us to over

> analyze everything people do and say, but we are experts at reading people,

> since all of our lives we've had to read our parents to know if they were

> going to flip out in any given moment, and then blame us. So I politely tell

> my mom that her tone of the way she accusingly said " did you do any soul

> searching " sounded more like an attack, a put down than a question to which

> she refuted: " You must be insecure, because I was simply asking you a

> question. " Then she talks about how our relationship was so great before,

> that now there's no " loyalty " or " trust " she doesn't know how I could

> " betray " her by calling the cops when she was doing nothing..

>

> As a KO I block things out, I also obsessively remember them, until I block

> them out completely so I completely forgot about the night I called the cops

> and " told the cops nonsense stories " according to my mom. It's getting so

> hard to have relationships with anyone.. I don't expect anything from anyone

> anymore.. I just stick to myself. I rather read a book than go out and talk

> to people with their drama and silliness. I've grown a little bit bitter. I

> don't want to have bitter friends either, who judge everything and think

> they are too good for even themselves. I prefer to have silly, happy go

> lucky friends. And sometimes, guys, I am happy go lucky when I push away all

> the pain that's happened.. But when my mom calls and blames me for all the

> badness and then excuses herself by saying it was the pain medicine that

> made her kick down the door, or call me all of those ugly names, or say I'll

> cut yu with a knife... which she said not meaning it.. she said it out of

> anger, which is the same why I said " I'll destroy you, " when I called the

> police. Clearly this family needs pyschotherapy.

>

> I keep telling mom that I don't want to talk about what happened until we

> see a therapist together. She's so sadly pathetic feeling scared and

> vulnerable that I will " hurt " her when I come to visit again. Hold up, mama

> drama who said anything about me coming to visit again. I am going to be

> just fine 8 states away, and when I go to NC for school a state away, guess

> who isn't getting my address? Anyway. I can't even believe my mom has these

> " trust " issues with me, when I am the one who should be feeling victimized,

> not the bad guy. How can she do that? make me feel like the bad guy, forget

> and excuse all of the wrongdoings that make her the bad guy to me.. I

> politely remind my mother that it's not just me, everyone in her life has

> left her because walking on eggshells is exhausting .. being controlled,

> manipulated, guilt tripped, praised, then cut down all in a matter of 5

> minutes: I haven't seen a reality TV show with this much madness, and the

> worst is that it really gets to me.. I feel up, I feel down, I feel up, then

> down. I buy things and feel good for a little, then go back to down .. when

> I am around people.. I fake a smile, when I am alone sometimes I'm happy,

> then sad, then angry, then happy, then sad, angry, etc.

>

> I am turning crazy.

>

> Anyway, I shut off my phone when my mom started the blame game of why she

> can't trust me, and how I betrayed her and all that cookiness.

>

> What kills me is when she talks about her oldest friends, not encouraging

> her to move by her to their hometown, or not calling for several weeks after

> the devastating news about her chronic spinal stenosis .. She makes it like

> they are the worst people, and I bite my tongue thinking mom you aren't the

> center of the world, people have their own problems and why do you have to

> read into everything thinking that they don't love you if you aren't up

> their butts. I try to use it as an opportunity to say that there are many

> reasons why people do what they do, don't take it personally life isn't

> black and white, there are a lot of gray areas. And she uses this as an

> opportunity to say that if the relationship with x person fails, it's not a

> big deal, because she NEVER could imagine how terribly our " mother/daughter "

> relationship turned out.

>

> Thanks for reading, I had to vent, I feel a little bit better, for now until

> the up downs start..

>

> I know I should see a therapist, and I'm in NY where I could find a world

> class one, AND I have insurance, so I should take advantage of that.. I just

> keep thinking that one day , one week I won't need to talk about this, or

> think about this gnawing problem.

>

> -Kris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ah, Kris.

Your post could be me, in college. it is soooo hard to deal with that craziness,

that madness, and when you try to get someone else to see -- how do you describe

the verbal abuse, the body language, the living beside unstable TNT? Because

when they meet her, she's all sunshine and smiles, and they " don't think she's

all THAT bad. "

*BUT SHE IS.*

She's toxic, especially if she was throwing things at you, hitting, chasing,

hurting you. It's not just the words, Kris, but even the words crucify you on

the inside.

You are so close to the madness now, and because it is as mad as it has been for

your entire life, the madness is your normal, sad to say. Because you have no

" normal " intimate family life to compare your life against, you have no way of

recognizing what is healthy interaction, how someone SHOULD treat you with

respect -- and this is what a good therapist can help you learn.

It has been almost two decades since I was where you are. Only, because I

attempted suicide due to that family pain, I got committed to 24/7 therapy in

high school, and learned how to first recognize then deal with the insanity.

Therapy is the absolute, number-one, no-holds-barred best thing that ever

happened to me. It's priceless to recognize all of the ways in which your life

can be healthier. Hard to work out all the lovely kinks we've been given, but

sooooooooooo heavenly as you begin to see your efforts bear fruit.

Then when you start to get to the other side of it, after all your work on

verbal self-defense, and emerging from the prison of co-dependency, hopefully

you find your soulmate and have a happy marriage for all of it.

For me, that's my happy ending. Normal life, normal marriage, (no lie) three

kids and a dog and a cat. It's even awesome how my husband sees nada for who she

is and gets mad at her for not being able to see past the end of her own nose!!

It's so true.

*THAT* happy ending, whatever yours is, is the life I would wish for you, for

everyone here. May God grant you the serenity to accept the things you cannot

change (*cough* NADA), the courage to change the things you can (hugs-- you,

hon) and the wisdom to know the difference.

Peace and blessings,

Tina

>

> I don't know why I fall for it. Mom with BPD apologizes for abusive

> behavior, and when I say mom, wow it took a lot for you to apologize about

> what happened, that's really brave of you, she stone coldly replies: you're

> welcoming and in an accusing tone rather than questioning asks me: " Is that

> all you have to say, you haven't done any soul searching? " I know this line

> sounds like a question anyone could ask, but the way she says things, makes

> me cringe.. Especially since her apology was just a tactic for her to get me

> to grovel, for what? Defending myself! She twists everything I do and say..

> If I say my younger brother's counselor should know what's going on, she

> thinks I am threatening to take her son away. She focuses on all the ways I

> was in the wrong, rather than seeing what drove me to that point was her..

> The night I called the police nothing particularly bad was going on.. was it

> selfish of me then to call them.. I had a mini break down from nothing, from

> just seeing her acting so calm and content in the living room after days and

> days of her craziness - digging her nails into my skin when she was upset

> that I wasn't jumping for joy about taking her to do her taxes ( okay I

> should have taken her for the taxes, but really to get that upset is

> crazy..) and then the other times ,. throwing apples, hair brushes, anything

> within reach, directly aimed at my face.. Pulling my hair because the

> bathroom sink was wet and I should wipe it down.. I am 19, and don't even

> live at home anymore. I am a woman who chose to help her mom who was going

> through a lot of physical ailments.. Yes, she was on pain medications with

> side effects of mood swings, and now she blames that for her abuse, she also

> says I am not compassionate .. It goes like this: Oh I am sorry for

> what happened, the medication made me crazy, but also it's not your fault

> that you're not compassionate and you're selfish. What kind of apology is

> that? Anyway, we tried having a phone relationship about not talking about

> what happened, screaming over what happened, and then talking about the

> weather and boys, two superficial and safe topics. But then tonight, out of

> nowhere, she implied that if the horrible time didn't happen I could watch

> the dog instead of her having to pay someone, while she goes out of state to

> the mayo clinic hospital to treat the chronic physical ailments. She didn't

> say any of this, but something about KO children is that we are

> hypersensitive to the body language, inflection. This causes us to over

> analyze everything people do and say, but we are experts at reading people,

> since all of our lives we've had to read our parents to know if they were

> going to flip out in any given moment, and then blame us. So I politely tell

> my mom that her tone of the way she accusingly said " did you do any soul

> searching " sounded more like an attack, a put down than a question to which

> she refuted: " You must be insecure, because I was simply asking you a

> question. " Then she talks about how our relationship was so great before,

> that now there's no " loyalty " or " trust " she doesn't know how I could

> " betray " her by calling the cops when she was doing nothing..

>

> As a KO I block things out, I also obsessively remember them, until I block

> them out completely so I completely forgot about the night I called the cops

> and " told the cops nonsense stories " according to my mom. It's getting so

> hard to have relationships with anyone.. I don't expect anything from anyone

> anymore.. I just stick to myself. I rather read a book than go out and talk

> to people with their drama and silliness. I've grown a little bit bitter. I

> don't want to have bitter friends either, who judge everything and think

> they are too good for even themselves. I prefer to have silly, happy go

> lucky friends. And sometimes, guys, I am happy go lucky when I push away all

> the pain that's happened.. But when my mom calls and blames me for all the

> badness and then excuses herself by saying it was the pain medicine that

> made her kick down the door, or call me all of those ugly names, or say I'll

> cut yu with a knife... which she said not meaning it.. she said it out of

> anger, which is the same why I said " I'll destroy you, " when I called the

> police. Clearly this family needs pyschotherapy.

>

> I keep telling mom that I don't want to talk about what happened until we

> see a therapist together. She's so sadly pathetic feeling scared and

> vulnerable that I will " hurt " her when I come to visit again. Hold up, mama

> drama who said anything about me coming to visit again. I am going to be

> just fine 8 states away, and when I go to NC for school a state away, guess

> who isn't getting my address? Anyway. I can't even believe my mom has these

> " trust " issues with me, when I am the one who should be feeling victimized,

> not the bad guy. How can she do that? make me feel like the bad guy, forget

> and excuse all of the wrongdoings that make her the bad guy to me.. I

> politely remind my mother that it's not just me, everyone in her life has

> left her because walking on eggshells is exhausting .. being controlled,

> manipulated, guilt tripped, praised, then cut down all in a matter of 5

> minutes: I haven't seen a reality TV show with this much madness, and the

> worst is that it really gets to me.. I feel up, I feel down, I feel up, then

> down. I buy things and feel good for a little, then go back to down .. when

> I am around people.. I fake a smile, when I am alone sometimes I'm happy,

> then sad, then angry, then happy, then sad, angry, etc.

>

> I am turning crazy.

>

> Anyway, I shut off my phone when my mom started the blame game of why she

> can't trust me, and how I betrayed her and all that cookiness.

>

> What kills me is when she talks about her oldest friends, not encouraging

> her to move by her to their hometown, or not calling for several weeks after

> the devastating news about her chronic spinal stenosis .. She makes it like

> they are the worst people, and I bite my tongue thinking mom you aren't the

> center of the world, people have their own problems and why do you have to

> read into everything thinking that they don't love you if you aren't up

> their butts. I try to use it as an opportunity to say that there are many

> reasons why people do what they do, don't take it personally life isn't

> black and white, there are a lot of gray areas. And she uses this as an

> opportunity to say that if the relationship with x person fails, it's not a

> big deal, because she NEVER could imagine how terribly our " mother/daughter "

> relationship turned out.

>

> Thanks for reading, I had to vent, I feel a little bit better, for now until

> the up downs start..

>

> I know I should see a therapist, and I'm in NY where I could find a world

> class one, AND I have insurance, so I should take advantage of that.. I just

> keep thinking that one day , one week I won't need to talk about this, or

> think about this gnawing problem.

>

> -Kris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kris,

You are such a sweet girl. I wish you could see that in you, even the compassion

that shines from your posts like a beacon, no matter what your nada says. I

would submit that there is still madness in your life masquerading as normal…

> Thanks again for being there for me.. I am carrying so much bitterness and

> anger at work and it's nice to come home and read your post, it makes me

> feel whole somehow.

----- You deserve to feel whole. You deserve the validation of someone telling

you your experiences were real, that the pain you feel is the rational response

to that irrational abuse. One of the finest, clearest, and happiest memories I

have from my high school years is of my stepbrother's friend validating the pain

I felt after he witnessed one of her abusive episodes. From your comment

immediately above this paragraph, I wonder if the bitterness and anger you carry

at work is misdirected so that you don't have to face the anger at your nada…

because facing down that strong emotion and winning over it is long, scary,

painful work but also one of the most amazing personal victories you will EVER

have. And think of a therapist as your Sherpa on that journey.

>I just see my mom's face

> as a child, and can't help but want to cusp her cheeks in my hand and kiss

> her cheek and hug her, she's my mother after all. And unlike other nada's

> she was good to me most of the times.

-----I don't know about the others on this board, but my nada was good to me

most of the time. What makes her behavior most striking is that it seems to be

so " out of the blue " and the rages happen when we least expect them – it's what

makes us walk on eggshells. And it is not normal for you to be seeing her as

your child! SHE was supposed to raise YOU. Not the other way around. Do you ever

feel like you lost your childhood? I do. I think it's why I'm so happy go lucky

too. Because if I couldn't have my childhood then, by golly I'm gonna have it

now.

> I am scared to become a mother, I think now,

> because I don't want to hurt my children in the ways I was let down by my

> own, and also I am so exhausted, Tina. I've always felt as if I had to raise

> both my mother and myself, while also submitting to her demands, acting as

> 'daughter.'

-----It sounds to me like you raised her and yourself, too. SHE is responsible

for her taxes. HER behavior is the cause of the police visit. NOTHING justifies

biting you, causing you to bleed, humiliating you, pulling your hair, and

blaming you is the way she ducks out on her own conscience. She is reflexively

fleeing her conscience. It's what BPs do.

One last parting thought – for this post anyway, as I could say so many volumes

more to support you if time were at my disposal -- you don't have to go NC if

you don't think you can, as it does not have to be all or nothing. Perhaps you

could set boundaries on your contact with your mom. Perhaps, when you feel that

guilt or sense of obligation gnawing at you and your reflex is to say " yes, " you

can pause, take a deep breath, and say, " Let me think about it and get back to

you tomorrow. " And then if you want to say no but can't, just drop the subject.

Peace and blessings,

Tina

[Guest guest]

How wonderful, your visit with your friend. May you have thousands upon

thousands more happy, quiet days with you at the helm of your own ship, not

nada.

Your experience reminds me of being on my own -- though I was poor, because I

had set my mind against accepting their money that always came with strings, I

found joy in simple things like buying a cherry limeade from Sonic and going for

a swim.

Enjoy the little things, the breeze that doesn't carry her voice, the sunshine

and conversation with friends that you don't have to tell her about.

It's all you now, hon.

Tina

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I don't know why I fall for it. Mom with BPD apologizes for abusive

> >

> > > behavior, and when I say mom, wow it took a lot for you to apologize

> > about

> >

> > > what happened, that's really brave of you, she stone coldly replies:

> > you're

> >

> > > welcoming and in an accusing tone rather than questioning asks me: " Is

> > that

> >

> > > all you have to say, you haven't done any soul searching? " I know this

> > line

> >

> > > sounds like a question anyone could ask, but the way she says things,

> > makes

> >

> > > me cringe.. Especially since her apology was just a tactic for her to get

> > me

> >

> > > to grovel, for what? Defending myself! She twists everything I do and

> > say..

> >

> > > If I say my younger brother's counselor should know what's going on, she

> >

> > > thinks I am threatening to take her son away. She focuses on all the ways

> > I

> >

> > > was in the wrong, rather than seeing what drove me to that point was

> > her..

> >

> > > The night I called the police nothing particularly bad was going on.. was

> > it

> >

> > > selfish of me then to call them.. I had a mini break down from nothing,

> > from

> >

> > > just seeing her acting so calm and content in the living room after days

> > and

> >

> > > days of her craziness - digging her nails into my skin when she was upset

> >

> > > that I wasn't jumping for joy about taking her to do her taxes ( okay I

> >

> > > should have taken her for the taxes, but really to get that upset is

> >

> > > crazy..) and then the other times ,. throwing apples, hair brushes,

> > anything

> >

> > > within reach, directly aimed at my face.. Pulling my hair because the

> >

> > > bathroom sink was wet and I should wipe it down.. I am 19, and don't even

> >

> > > live at home anymore. I am a woman who chose to help her mom who was

> > going

> >

> > > through a lot of physical ailments.. Yes, she was on pain medications

> > with

> >

> > > side effects of mood swings, and now she blames that for her abuse, she

> > also

> >

> > > says I am not compassionate .. It goes like this: Oh I am sorry

> > for

> >

> > > what happened, the medication made me crazy, but also it's not your fault

> >

> > > that you're not compassionate and you're selfish. What kind of apology is

> >

> > > that? Anyway, we tried having a phone relationship about not talking

> > about

> >

> > > what happened, screaming over what happened, and then talking about the

> >

> > > weather and boys, two superficial and safe topics. But then tonight, out

> > of

> >

> > > nowhere, she implied that if the horrible time didn't happen I could

> > watch

> >

> > > the dog instead of her having to pay someone, while she goes out of state

> > to

> >

> > > the mayo clinic hospital to treat the chronic physical ailments. She

> > didn't

> >

> > > say any of this, but something about KO children is that we are

> >

> > > hypersensitive to the body language, inflection. This causes us to over

> >

> > > analyze everything people do and say, but we are experts at reading

> > people,

> >

> > > since all of our lives we've had to read our parents to know if they were

> >

> > > going to flip out in any given moment, and then blame us. So I politely

> > tell

> >

> > > my mom that her tone of the way she accusingly said " did you do any soul

> >

> > > searching " sounded more like an attack, a put down than a question to

> > which

> >

> > > she refuted: " You must be insecure, because I was simply asking you a

> >

> > > question. " Then she talks about how our relationship was so great before,

> >

> > > that now there's no " loyalty " or " trust " she doesn't know how I could

> >

> > > " betray " her by calling the cops when she was doing nothing..

> >

> > >

> >

> > > As a KO I block things out, I also obsessively remember them, until I

> > block

> >

> > > them out completely so I completely forgot about the night I called the

> > cops

> >

> > > and " told the cops nonsense stories " according to my mom. It's getting so

> >

> > > hard to have relationships with anyone.. I don't expect anything from

> > anyone

> >

> > > anymore.. I just stick to myself. I rather read a book than go out and

> > talk

> >

> > > to people with their drama and silliness. I've grown a little bit bitter.

> > I

> >

> > > don't want to have bitter friends either, who judge everything and think

> >

> > > they are too good for even themselves. I prefer to have silly, happy go

> >

> > > lucky friends. And sometimes, guys, I am happy go lucky when I push away

> > all

> >

> > > the pain that's happened.. But when my mom calls and blames me for all

> > the

> >

> > > badness and then excuses herself by saying it was the pain medicine that

> >

> > > made her kick down the door, or call me all of those ugly names, or say

> > I'll

> >

> > > cut yu with a knife... which she said not meaning it.. she said it out of

> >

> > > anger, which is the same why I said " I'll destroy you, " when I called the

> >

> > > police. Clearly this family needs pyschotherapy.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I keep telling mom that I don't want to talk about what happened until we

> >

> > > see a therapist together. She's so sadly pathetic feeling scared and

> >

> > > vulnerable that I will " hurt " her when I come to visit again. Hold up,

> > mama

> >

> > > drama who said anything about me coming to visit again. I am going to be

> >

> > > just fine 8 states away, and when I go to NC for school a state away,

> > guess

> >

> > > who isn't getting my address? Anyway. I can't even believe my mom has

> > these

> >

> > > " trust " issues with me, when I am the one who should be feeling

> > victimized,

> >

> > > not the bad guy. How can she do that? make me feel like the bad guy,

> > forget

> >

> > > and excuse all of the wrongdoings that make her the bad guy to me.. I

> >

> > > politely remind my mother that it's not just me, everyone in her life has

> >

> > > left her because walking on eggshells is exhausting .. being controlled,

> >

> > > manipulated, guilt tripped, praised, then cut down all in a matter of 5

> >

> > > minutes: I haven't seen a reality TV show with this much madness, and the

> >

> > > worst is that it really gets to me.. I feel up, I feel down, I feel up,

> > then

> >

> > > down. I buy things and feel good for a little, then go back to down ..

> > when

> >

> > > I am around people.. I fake a smile, when I am alone sometimes I'm happy,

> >

> > > then sad, then angry, then happy, then sad, angry, etc.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I am turning crazy.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Anyway, I shut off my phone when my mom started the blame game of why she

> >

> > > can't trust me, and how I betrayed her and all that cookiness.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > What kills me is when she talks about her oldest friends, not encouraging

> >

> > > her to move by her to their hometown, or not calling for several weeks

> > after

> >

> > > the devastating news about her chronic spinal stenosis .. She makes it

> > like

> >

> > > they are the worst people, and I bite my tongue thinking mom you aren't

> > the

> >

> > > center of the world, people have their own problems and why do you have

> > to

> >

> > > read into everything thinking that they don't love you if you aren't up

> >

> > > their butts. I try to use it as an opportunity to say that there are many

> >

> > > reasons why people do what they do, don't take it personally life isn't

> >

> > > black and white, there are a lot of gray areas. And she uses this as an

> >

> > > opportunity to say that if the relationship with x person fails, it's not

> > a

> >

> > > big deal, because she NEVER could imagine how terribly our

> > " mother/daughter "

> >

> > > relationship turned out.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Thanks for reading, I had to vent, I feel a little bit better, for now

> > until

> >

> > > the up downs start..

> >

> > >

> >

> > > I know I should see a therapist, and I'm in NY where I could find a world

> >

> > > class one, AND I have insurance, so I should take advantage of that.. I

> > just

> >

> > > keep thinking that one day , one week I won't need to talk about this, or

> >

> > > think about this gnawing problem.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > -Kris

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

> >

> > >

[Guest guest]

,

Had one more response to post to this one LOL so please bear with all my posts.

I swear you are a kindred spirit.

> Are you saying I should direct my anger and bitterness to my mom? Like

> should I not sweep my feelings under the rug like I always do, should I tell

> her MOM this is hurting me and I am angry with you..?

Yes and a qualified yes. Yes, unqualified, that your anger and bitterness is

rightfully caused by her.

Qualified yes that you should tell her anything about it. If you choose to say

anything to her, say it for your own purposes, to tell her how you feel, than to

expect an apology. She won't give one, or she'll give one of those non-apologies

you describe that's really only disguised fishing for you to grovel.

IF you tell her, expect a firestorm. If you get " lucky " she may decide to cut

you out of her life for the " horrible " act of making her face reality. If not,

she will seethe about it and make sarcastic, acidic comments about it for years.

She may also forget that it ever happened like my stepnada did.

I told my stepnada once, how I felt about what she did to me. Here's how it

went.

Christmastime during my college years was slim, because I was very poor. Sort of

by choice, but you all know in reality really not by choice. Had we had the

UNconditional love of our parents, I would not have been poor; conditions were

unacceptable to me. SO, poor.

Out of what little I had, I bought a little something for everyone, including a

hot air balloon calendar for her because she loved hot air balloons and always

had a calendar. Figured it would be better than the earrings she hated, you

know, or the scarf she never wore, because she'd get use out of the calendar.

She blew up about the gift. Called it a crappy gift, made a scene right there in

the middle of my rich uncle's Christmas with all the extended stepfamily around.

I was utterly humiliated. As I left, and I left her gift behind, she followed

me. I couldn't even remove myself from the situation but that she would follow

me with her godawful ranting. As I got in the car I screamed at her that she

SCARRED me! Doesn't she realize it? and I wanted her to leave me alone! Just

leave me alone!!

Right in the middle of this high-toned uptown neighborhood, I'm embarrassing my

uncle with this, you know, because it just boiled over. I regret it because of

my uncle and embarrassing him, not because of my stepnada. She needed to hear

it.

So what happened with her? She " forgot " it ever happened, and the next Father's

day, when I came by after church to see Dad, she told me I was dressed like a

sl*t etc. She never changed. Not one iota.

I felt better for saying it, but I didn't go into it expecting stepnada to

change. She'd just been that way for too long.

Hope that helps you decide what to do.

Tina